Scientists Attempt to Replace Crude Oil With Sugars 179
amigoro writes with a link to the Press Esc blog, discussing a possible replacement for crude oil in plastics, fuels, and other industrial uses. The post outlines findings to be published in an upcoming issue of the journal Science. Essentially, researchers at the Institute for Interfacial Catalysis are attempting to process the sugars in plant matter into an oil-like compound, a daunting challenge. "Glucose, in plant starch and cellulose, is nature's most abundant sugar. 'But getting a commercially viable yield of HMF from glucose has been very challenging,' Zhang said. 'In addition to low yield until now, we always generate many different byproducts,' including levulinic acid, making product purification expensive and uncompetitive with petroleum-based chemicals. Zhang, lead author and former post doc Haibo Zhao, and colleagues John Holladay and Heather Brown, all from PNNL, were able to coax HMF yields upward of 70 percent from glucose and nearly 90 percent from fructose while leaving only traces of acid impurities."
A better idea (Score:5, Interesting)
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It could never work (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It could never work Soylent Green (Score:2)
Back to the glucose oil energy topic. I suspect oil from glucose might be the dawn of a very bright new age. Grow your own road trip.
A breakthrough like this is in the offing. We have had too many tiny incremental steps with energy.
Thanks,
Jim
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That happens even with existing fossil fuel too... it's just that we happen to get existing fossil fuel energy for "free" because the earth has been soaking it up from the sun and accumulating it for a few hundred million years before we even started to tap it.
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this is getting a big crass.
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That has never been a problem for mankind throughout history, so I think we won't have any problems now.
glycerine (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe the energy wouldn't be worth it, but there is lots of glycerol in people which is an expensive ingredient because products containing real glycerol are hard to find. There is considerable market demand for it, and its shoddy alternatives have developed a very bad reputation. Stuff usually has propylene glycol instead which is cheaper but doesn't taste as good, or ethylene glycol which is chea
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Bit of a bother getting greenpeace blockading cemeteries though !
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Re:glycerine (Score:5, Funny)
He was basically trying to liquify a multivitamin, which has all kinds of crap in it. Generally you use a mixture of concentrated sulfuric and nitric acids to liquify something. The pills wouldn't dissolve when he tried digestion on an open burner, because the temperature at 1 atmosphere won't get high enough. They make steel digestion bombs for this kind of situation. They're like soup cans with stainless steel armor one inch thick around a ceramic liner inside. If the temperature exceeds 50 atmospheres a little safety valve on top pops to relieve the pressure. So he decided to buy 5 of these things, to let the pressure and temperature rise without losing any contents of the five sample tablets as he dissolved them under concentrated acids.
This turned out to be a cardinal error. The tablets had a binder made of sodium benzoate. If you heat benzoate at high temperature and pressure under concentrated sulfuric and nitric acid, it turns into trinitrobenzoate which dissolves in water all right but is also a class A explosive. So they put the five vitamin tablets in the acids, sealed the bombs, and put them in the oven at 105 C which they actually had set up in a conference room where people would write up experiments. I was across the hall with a clear line of sight to the oven when the first bomb exploded inside. It sounded like someone took 5000 dinner plates and smashed them on the floor all at once, and the oven turned into a pile of kitty litter and silicate and asbestos and the conference room filled up with brown nitrogen dioxide. Then two more exploded and fired off in different directions. One penetrated the HR office next door (they moved upstairs the next week) and one buried itself in the wall of the conference room while people were still running outside. (The other two were duds.)
I almost got killed by a multivitamin that day. You know, you live your life, day in and day out, and you don't realize how fragile life is until one day you almost get killed by an exploding vitamin tablet. In an interstellar burst I am back to save the universe.
Not being a native English speaker, of course my boss gets on the phone with 911 and tells them that his bombs exploded.
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I'd be inclined to conclude that the energy involved in converting dead people into fossil fuel likely outweighs the energy you'd get out of it.
The 80's called, they want their science back. Ever hear of thermal [wikipedia.org] depolymerization [thermaldep...zation.org]? It was even discussed here [slashdot.org] (and here [slashdot.org], and more if you actually look.).
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Exxon Green? (is people)
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Well, it'd be good for American karma. (Score:2)
The idea sort of reminds me of the Tibetan practice of sky burial.
Sky burial works like this. When it's time to hop on the old wheel of transmigration, you have your mortal remains dropped off outside a certain village, along with a small fee (modest by American
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Why not just wander out into a desert to die and get eaten by vultures for free?
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For a many this last minute boost would be absolutely meaningless in making up for a lifetime of life negative activity, although it might take some of the burden off their desce
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Re:A better idea (Score:4, Funny)
"Would you like to Biggie-size that? Remember, by doing so you'll be reducing our dependence on foreign oil!"
That big of a deal? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Erm, fuel was included alongside plastics.
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TBH I'm more worried about running out of copper and silicon.
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Yeah, but that's all mixed up with that damn dirt.
Comparison to existing products (Score:5, Interesting)
Their food containers look just like traditional ones and i've got a few pairs of Teko Ingeo socks that are really comfortable.
It's certainly an interesting field
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I get the idea that this new process is simply designed to be a more efficient chemical route, or a route to other kinds of plastics.
Honestly not sure (Score:2)
"The process to create Ingeo makes use of the carbon naturally stored in plants by photosynthesis. Plant starches are broken down into sugars. The carbon and other elements in these natural sugars are then used to make a biopolymer through a process of simple fermentation and separation. The resulting resin, called NatureWorks(TM) PLA, can then be spun or extruded into Ingeo for use in textiles."
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The food containers compost and apparently the socks do too.
I've not experienced any biodegrading of my socks thankfully.
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I believe you are referring to these guys [natureworksllc.com].
Oh Goody, let's use food stocks... (Score:4, Insightful)
If we could wrap our heads around the idea of conservation, I think we'd be a lot better off.
Unfortunately, since we've defined consumption as economic success, preaching conservation ends up sounding like austerity.
Too small (Score:5, Insightful)
Conservation is good, but doesn't solve the problem. If 4/5th of the world weren't needing to be brought up to our standards, and the population was static or decreasing, and oil wasn't going to run out, and our oil purchases weren't funding the guys who kill our troops, and we didn't have greenhouse effects to worry about, conservation would be all we need.
Conservation makes all those problems a little bit better. But we need to solve them completely. And until we can get them solved we should absolutely conserve as much as we can to decrease the time until implementation of a real solution.
Actually, I think the best plan is to save oil for very remote vehicle operation and plastics, such that we can cut our production down to the point where domestic sources are more than enough, so using sugar for plastics is probably the last thing that needs addressing.
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I've heard it said on multiple occasions that in order to replace any significant portion of our gasoline imports with ethanol, it would take up an overwhelming portion of our country's agricultural production. Even if we took the 50% of our crops that we normally export and diverted them into replacing fossil fuels, it wouldn't supply anywhere near enough.
The problem here, in my opinion, lies more on the demand side of the equation than the supply side. Take, for example, g
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Nobody is suggesting that we use food stocks as the basis of *all* of our industries, but it does make sense for replacements for things that depend on the hydrocarbons we currently get from petroleum sources.
And what about the terrible state of U.S. agriculture? Wouldn't a functioning mark
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Shut your mouth!
Sincerely,
Associated Farm Industries, Inc.
Taking government handouts, resisting fair trade, and throwing away perfectly good crops for 50 years.
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Ok, so people with money get food and energy, and people without get neither?
Is that seriously what you are proposing? I get it, this is a back door attempt to address energy AND overpopulation, right?
That's the inevitable result of "letting the market decide" though. I suppose, if you were a pramatist, you'd shrug and say something about survival of the fittest. But that assumes that the people facing starvation just decide to roll over and die without a fight.
Or are there some "co
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What...this isn't how things already happen? You don't know that rich people in the U.S. already get better food and better health care than poor people?
I'm not talking about getting rid of programs to help people, I'm talking about letting the market drive the farmers and the companies that make things from the crops towards more efficient use of resources. Like, for instance, using rapeseed to produce biodiesel instead of
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Sorry for the jerking knee.... I need to have a doctor check that out one of these days
I think it's a GREAT idea! (Score:2)
The thing about "food stocks" is that when we need more we can just grow more. Conservation is a great idea (and absolutely es
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Why is that? If we conserve enough, couldn't we use existing hydroelectric power sources (like we do already http://www.bchydro.com/ [bchydro.com])?
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And alas, it's not true that we can just grow more food stocks when we need more. Sure, to some degree we can increase it -- but there is a limit to the available arable land, a limit to growing seasons, etc. And to grow more food despite those constraints requires more energy, so you reach a point of diminishing returns quickly in growing food for energy.
Preaching conservation sounds like austerity because it IS austerity. No m
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here's a thought (Score:5, Funny)
what were we talking about again?
Re:here's a thought (Score:5, Informative)
Poster was actually completely on topic...though obviously too stoned to remember to provide any reasonable details. Maybe they'll fill in the blanks when they come down
Links:
http://www.hempplastic.com/ [hempplastic.com]
http://www.treehugger.com/ [treehugger.com]
http://www.hempmuseum.org/ [hempmuseum.org]
Just for starters.
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Oh for crying out loud!
Hemp doesn't contain anywhere even CLOSE to the amount of THC that Marijuana has. They may be both varieties of cannabis (and the plants do look virtually identical), but you can't get high by smoking hemp... probably no higher than you could get by smoking grass cut from your front lawn!
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Seriously, do you really think that I don't know that? Turn your sarcasm detector on would you?
Informative no less...bloody freaking obvious more like it.
Plants that grow plastic... (Score:4, Informative)
Billy Wilder's a genuis (Score:2, Funny)
suger based polymers... (Score:5, Interesting)
Suger based polymers... This is a statement that I've been told is in the screws and plates used to hold my son's head together. (He had a major surgery and my daughter just had the same this past wednesday.) Anyways, when I hear "Suger based polymers", I assumed pastic from sugar. Isn't "polymer" a fancy way of saying plastic? The side benifit for my children are that the screws/plates are then reabsorbed by the skull as it grows/heals.
So this Sugar/Plastic would A) reserve fuels and B) biodegrade better?
Dibs on a name, I call it Slastar or Slastic... (c) 2007, me.
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How did you manage to live as long as you have with such an astonishing ability to be so breathtakingly in-your-face offensive?
I've had so many reasons to hate political correctness in the past; you must be one more. The constant drumbeat of PC in current society is the only thing I can imagine that would have kept this trait from being beaten out of you in elementary school.
I could be wrong, of course; it's entirely possible that you haven't left e
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Asking is not rude... I think the method to the question was. PC is not the answer (and I hate it.) but a little TACT goes a long way. But I'll answere anyway.
Yes, My wife is the carrier of some type of defect. We've had some genetic tests done, and although the physical anomalies match a few syndromes, none match 100% and there has been NO genetic match that the've found. The closet thing is Saethre-Chotzen Syndrome, but again... No genetic match found yet, just physical characte
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And for this particular sal
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So thats why our new insect overlords (Score:2)
i wish them good luck (Score:2, Funny)
Plastic ok... but fuel? (Score:2, Interesting)
Using sugars to make fuel, however, just seems like perpetuating an already out of control problem. Internal combustion is a very inefficient way to convert matter into energy. And like previous posters stated, it still creates CO2. I am pretty su
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Hemp Plastics (Score:2, Insightful)
First sentence makes mention of using hemp plastics derived from the oil within the seeds. Hemp seems like a heartier plant than corn...it is a weed. If I recall correctly Henry Fords model T had a dashboard constructed using hemp plastics, but the Model T wikipedia entry makes no mention of it. Also hemp would reduce the demand on lumber for paper and can even be pressed into beams that do not rot as easily as traditional lumber.
But I think we all know this will no
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Hemp is a great solution, Making 3800 gal per acre in bio-diesel from the seed, lbs of hemp flour from the remains of the seeds after pressing the oil (And hemp flour can be used in place of wheat flour)Fibers from the stalks, etc. The yield from a single acre is amazing. One acre will yield the same amount of paper as 10 acres of trees, it is easier to harvest and may be easier to process.
It is too sad that the government and many in the
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I don't agree. I actually think that of all the legislative idiocy marijuana reform is one of the more likely to change in our lifetime. Assuming people with clear ideas on the topic avoid apathy.
Cheers.
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Not growing hemp has nothing to do with drugs.... there are plenty of varieties which produce little THC and lots of fibrous mass. It's got way more to do with lumber lobbies and oil lobbies and cotton lobbies and all the lobbies out there that don't represent hemp...
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Of course, given the development of better means of electrical energy storage using nanotube-based supercapcitors, by 2025 the average personal motor vehicle might be using electric power, now that the biggest issue--sto
Polypeptides (Score:2)
Why stop at plastics from sugars? We could use genetics to convert biomass into polypeptides to improve our energy (and chemical) efficiency, independence in superior materials. And since organisms make polypeptides from sunlight, water and CO2, switching from oil plastic to photosynthetic polypeptides could solve most
Great idea... (Score:5, Funny)
Sugar in the tank (prank) (Score:3, Funny)
Instead, just let them worry about it, get it checked out at the local garage (paying for an inspection), all to find there's no damage whatsoever.
Sweet crude (Score:2, Funny)
Thank you, thank you... Don't forget to tip the waiters...
This will dissappear.. (Score:3, Interesting)
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Oh, wait...
Plant-based plastic (Score:2)
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It works as a plastic, but it's very brittle and no where near as strong as most commercial plastics derived from hydrocarbons.
You're certainly not going to get ABS to PEG from sugars right now (but maybe PEG, commonly found in water bottles is a good candidate to start with)
Sugar as a replacement for oil? (Score:2)
Whoda thunkit that the US might invade Cuba for their energy!
platics? (Score:2)
Well that's just dandy... (Score:2)
Making plasting from suger would give yet another reason for toddlers to stick their toys in their mouths, causing a rise in infant deaths!
Somebody think of the children!!!
using up food sources (Score:2)
The real answer is simpler (Score:2)
Then our harvesting processes are not exactly hallmarks of efficiency themselves. But let's say we actually get 70% of the biomatter into the factory.
Then the factory processes it at about
S
Sponsored by Folgers? (Score:2)
*car explodes*
interesting tanker wrecks (Score:2)
The Process of Making Trees into Plastic (Score:2)
Where has this writer been? Under a rock? Before plastic was ever made from oil, it was made from plants. The original plastic wrap was cellophane [wikipedia.org], made from Cellulose [wikipedia.org]. Hemp was an ideal plant for cellulose. The Marijuana Tax Act of 1937 [wikipedia.org], making hemp illegal, ended the use of hemp for plastics. And about the same tyme Du Pont [wikipedia.org] received a patent of making plastic from petroleum. Here's a webpage on an Eastman Kodak, yes the camera company, process: The Process of Making Trees into Plastic [mindfully.org] dated 13 May
really?? (Score:2)
2. ???
3. Profi- err... CO2!
Re:How about this: (Score:4, Insightful)
Obviously we should be creating less CO2.
And obviously there isn't going to be one single solution to this mess.
It seems to me it's a lot better to be using and burning something renewable and localizable that actual absorbs CO2 before harvesting rather than something nonrenewable and poisonous that has to be shipped halfway around the world. This research could very well help. Just like conservation helps. Just like solar and wind and wave and other power sources will help.
Personally I'm sick of people ranting that some alternative source of energy (or plastic) or conservation or whatever isn't worthwhile because it's not going to solve every problem all by itself. Be serious! It's going to take work on a lot of different fronts to fix this mess. There will not be one magic solution.
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This has at least been changing lately with season long story lines and hopefully a lengthening of the atten
Re:How about this: (Score:5, Informative)
Uh, begging your pardon, but that's simply not true. CO2 is only produce by burning things that contain carbon. Burning hydrogen, for example, produces water.
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Purning corn doesn't "produce" CO2. There is just as much as there was before the corn was grown. There is just as much as if the corn was eaten. The only way to get less CO2 from corn would be to sink it whole into a carbon sink somewhere such as the bottom of the ocean or shoot it into space.
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Only part of the story (Score:3, Informative)
They're all viable, but together they can't produce enough to supplant fossil fuels, solar, and nuclear energy. If I had my notebook with me I could give you a good number, but, roughly, the technologies you mention can create up to 10% of the power we need.
While many countries (e.g. China, India) may agree that CO2 is a bad thing for us to produce in massive quantities, they're also not interested in stopping, because they don'
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Yeah, for now, but only because the Chinese are poor. When they catch up there won't be an appreciable difference. Actually, due to their lack of an EPA-like authority and what they do to their environment already, I'd guess they'll produce more per-capita, adjusting for income.
I know very few (OK, zero) people who want to produce any more CO2 than they exhale, and maybe a bit for c
Carbon Neutral (Score:5, Insightful)
The plant takes in CO2 when it grows and gives it out when it's burned.
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How do they not get this yet, you burn stuff you produce CO2. I don't care what you burn, CO2 is given off. Practically every country exept for America accepts global warming as a problem, CO2 emissions will not get better when you keep burning stuff for energy, How are these people not getting this! For god's sake, these are scientists, they've seen the evidence and know that CO2 is a problem so stop trying to find new inventive ways to produce it.
Apparently you're not getting it. Sure burning plant-carbon fuel releases CO2 into the atmosphere. But where did the Carbon in the plant come from? That's right, from the atmosphere! Specifically from the CO2 in the atmosphere! So burning bio-fuels like ethanol won't actually increase the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, it just cycles it through a system that provides us with useful energy.
america wants to keep burning stuff instead of using hydro-electric, wave power, or tidal- all of which are viable. That is WRONG! /Rant over
It's all a matter of efficiency. Hydro, wave and tidal energy can only produce and transmit electricity, you c
Re:How about this: (Score:4, Insightful)
The advantage of biofuel techniques is we are releasing CO2 that has been recently removed from the atmosphere versus large sums of it that has been stored away for millions of years (oil). That is a profound difference because its sustainable, rather than using up limited resources at an unsustainable rate and changing our environment.
Other than that, I agree with your general statement that biofuel is overrated and alternative fuels are underutilized and that we can do better.
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When Mexicans want to stop living in a failed state, they can change their society and government. Their failure to use THEIR resources to provide for THEIR needs is their fault. With citizenship comes responsibility to make adult choices.
If they want cheap tortillas, let them create the conditions for the agribusinesses that provide the ingredients so inexpensively.
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http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/11/1
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That's been done (long) before.
Prior to the advent of glycol antifreeze, alcohol was used. Winos were fond of draining radiators to get it. The predictable thing happened during the transition period...