NASA Tackles Ethics of Deep-Space Exploration 456
TheTony writes "With long-term projects like manned Mars exploration on the horizon, NASA has begun discussing previously taboo subjects. Ethical and practical questions involving illness, death, genetic profiling, and astronaut relations and behavior in space need to be addressed, as NASA begins to consider new policies with these extended missions in mind." From the article: "One topic that is evidently too hot to handle: How do you cope with sexual desire among healthy young men and women during a mission years long?"
Masturbation never hurt anyone. (Score:5, Funny)
Lesbians (Score:5, Funny)
PS Don't mod this down, I did a lot of research for this post - I downloaded Lesbians in Space and Lesbians on Mars (I also downloaded one that I thought was about Uranus but was quite horrible).
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Haven't you learned anything from Jurassik Park ?
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Send a male crew, with a hooker to take care of all their needs.
One with a degree in Psychiatry, perhaps. You could call the position "Ship's Counselor." And not to be sexist, but a female-dominant crew with a male Ship's Counselor might also work, given sufficient stamina. Of course, the article also mentions needing to deal with death, so bringing another along would be a logical measure to prevent someone going crazy enough to screw the dead hooker. Come to that, NASA traditionally uses triple redund
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Use the air lock (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Use the air lock (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Use the air lock (Score:5, Funny)
Wait... Did I say that out loud?
How to handle... (Score:2, Funny)
Easy, make a hole in the spaceship at waist height.
Their finger will be too small and there are no Inanimate Carbon Rods to save the day.
-273 degrees of spaceness is enough to dampen the desire of all but the most eager.
Re:How to handle... (Score:5, Funny)
That's it: you've hit upon an even better solution right in your proposal. The key to maintaining relationships in space is ... this inanimate carbon rod!
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Hell, they invented Tang....why not something that will now allow the astronauts to have all the 'tang' they want while up in space, with no pregnancies??
Man..the best stuff gets invented with the space program, doesn't it?
Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm thinking some sort of webcam?
they should take a pornstar or two on the mission and licence the movie footage to one of the major porn labels
Re:Easy (Score:5, Informative)
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My habit of ending sentences with prepositions is over.
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Re:Easy (Score:5, Funny)
The article doesn't cover oral, where bodily fluids are...well...disposed of.....if you're extremely lucky.
BBH
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artificial gravity brings the mechanical problems down to 'sex in a sauna'.
(trust me, people aren't avoiding that just because it's hotter and sweatier)
As for the social dynamics... don't we have data from BIO2?
And years of McMurdo and Amundsen/Scott winter-over crews?
They're pretty darn isolated for good chunks of time.
Amundsen/Scott (Score:3, Insightful)
I think the difference is that when you get get c
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It has always astonished me to hear of couples that "couldn't make the marriage work" because one person may regularly have to be away from home. Meanwhile, before planes and trains, people would routinely be separated for years at a time, and not uncommonly for much of their lives.
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What about space pregnancy?
Do they have coat-hangers and back-alleys in space?
Re:Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
Pregnancy should be a definite "NO" - I think. That is not only due to lack of data (it is difficult to estimate the problems in evolution of an embryo in 0G), but for the actual birth, and what comes after it.
Considering that getting _privacy_ is still an issue, having a sterile environment for a birth sounds prohibitive, as does raising a newly born in space (at the moment). You have to think about special food, diapers (or something similar), a baby crying at all hours and breaking the awake/rest pattern of the crew, radiation effect on a newborn and probably two dozen other problems I cannot think about.
Pregnancy in space should be at least a few decades in the future, to have some decent estimates for a healthy baby/crew/mission success.
That means that -at the moment - any decision taken regarding sex on a space mission should take into account some good way(s) of preventing any pregnancy.
Re:Easy (Score:4, Insightful)
And plus, my biggest concern with a baby wouldn't be the noise, but the fluids. Babies are veritable fountains of goo that you wouldn't want aerosolled into the breathing air.
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Re:Easy (Score:4, Interesting)
You know..this thread brought to my mind that maybe they should think about things in a different manner.
Why not on the long trips, send out crews of only gay men? No problems with pregnancy. They still have male libidos....so not much a chance of someone holding out on someone else for long....etc. I think it would be easier to find guys that could deal with sex without intimacy and all the problems that come with that. And there would be none of the problems that females might have with their periods, etc.
I dunno...sounds strange, but, it might be something to look at...might solve the problems everyone is discussing here with pregnancy prevention, and relationship issues.
But, man, if they did this...well, I remember all the jokes that surfaced after the Challenger blew up, imagine the ones coming out about this program.
Re:Easy (Score:5, Funny)
"Houston, this is Mars One. We have landed, and let me tell you, Mars is FABULOUS!!!"
Re:Easy (Score:5, Funny)
Hundreds of 'em.
Just load 'em into the space ships and launch them off to Centaurus. Or somewhere. Anywhere.
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The problem with gay men, or gay women, or really any combination of crews where there's going to be mutual sexual attraction, is that there are serious opportunities for jealousy and infighting.
I don't know if it was ever proved or not, but there were some theories going around about the accident on the USS Iowa being caused by one sailor who was involved in a homosexual affair with another committing suicide by
Re:Easy (Score:5, Funny)
even easier (Score:5, Funny)
Ask Michael Valentine Smith (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Easy (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Easy (Score:5, Funny)
Not many fish are going to have spent half their life watching videos of deserts...
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Re:Easy (Score:5, Interesting)
1) You cannot get away from a person who rejected you
2) You cannot avoid someone who refuses to accept a rejection
3) You cannot avoid living and working with some who took a third person from you.
4) People's sexuality can be affected by unusual conditions.
The best solution is probably to use stable couples for really long missions (months to years), but that makes it harder to recruit the best. Even then if things do go wrong you have a horrible mess.
Psychological screening is essential in any case - and not just for the headline grabbing sex issue. There are plenty of ways in which a small group at close quarters can go wrong.
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Make regular sex mandatory, like exercise (Score:5, Insightful)
Sex is a primary human function and drive, and to brush it under the carpet on an extended space mission would be the height of irresponsibility. Even worse would be to let cultural dogmatists decide on what should be done about sex on the basis of their preconceived smalltown agendas. This is a medical matter, and needs to be handled on a medical basis, professionally.
The human body has many natural needs and functions which, if not addressed, make it go downhill, and eventually become impaired and disfunctional. We don't make healthy eating optional for astronauts, nor do we make physical exercise optional for our long-term space dwellers, because to do so would have a negative effect on their health. The same needs to apply to sex, for exactly the same reasons.
Astronauts on long trips need to have their sexual indicators and requirements quantified and addressed as fully as any other medical parameters, and as professionally. This is absolutely not an area for cultural mindlock and petty embarrassment. The success of a mission and the health and lives of people in an integrated system are at stake, and to ignore a central function of the human body would be the height of folly, and disaster in the making if it is suppressed.
To make it perfectly clear and not beat around the bush, all members of a long-voyage space team need to be aware and fully supportive of the need for regular sexual activity among the crew, just as they are about physical exercise, and in most cases this implies participation for the sake of team health. If their earth-side taboos are so strong that they are not entirely comfortable with this, then they are the wrong material for extended missions.
The practical arrangements for this are a somewhat separate issue, and there are many alternative possibilities. But the key matter here is acceptance of the principle that sex must be handled as a natural medical function of a healthy astronaut, because without this we are destined for some very bad pathological events ahead.
Yes, I know that this suggestion will cause many a giggle and wink. But this is an important matter, and we need to think beyond the shackles of our ancient cultural silliness.
Re:Make regular sex mandatory, like exercise (Score:4, Funny)
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057012/ [imdb.com]
Mandatory Is A Bad Idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Alright, I agree that human - and in particular American - culture is a little screwed up about sex. People have sex. It is a natural part of life. It should not be swept under the rug. Astronauts - at least at this stage - should have birth control, and we need to not get all hysterical about that idea. A baby conceived in space is unlikely to ever be able to come to earth, meaning it will probably die of suffocation. Etc.
And I agree with the point that sexual desires should be monitored consistently and professionally, but I do not think mandatory sex is a good idea. It is probable that in some relationships this would work, but in most relationships it's going to be giving one partner or the other a degree of power that is unhealthy. Suppose, for instance, one of a partner pair doesn't want to have sex, but has to for the sake of their duty to NASA and nation? It is not hard to see how this could quickly send that person down a road to lessened self-esteem and depression; it happens all the time on earth. In space where you have little to no other human contact it could be devastating.
"What, I went to college, got a higher degree, trained real hard and became an astronaut so I could become someone else's sextoy?"
It is a bad idea. And there are alternatives; such as masturbation. NASA should at the very least be providing for materials that the astronauts they hire for their qualifications need in order to satisfy sexual urges. Pornography, dildos, what have you. Those astronauts also need to be well-trained on how to cope ultra responsibly with an adult relationship (and, for that matter, I think this has the potential of being another great technology brought to us by the space race), so that they can choose to get intimate with each other, or chose not to - but they have the choice. And not just the first time, but every time such conjugation might occur.
But, yes, it's an incredibly important matter; one that we tend to ignore because our culture is bound up in the idea that sex is bad. Let's abolish that soon, eh?
Re:Make regular sex mandatory, like exercise (Score:5, Insightful)
There has arisen this notion that sexual activity is a requirement for health. As /. can attest, nothing is further from the truth. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that most reading this post don't have regular sexual activity, and are healthy nonetheless. While I'm saying this half-joking, there is an element of truth that needs to be discussed.
Why is it that we can train a young child to control their bowel movements, yet expecting an adult to control their sexuality is somehow considered oppressive? If a child can learn to defer bowel movement until the appropriate time and place, why can't an adult defer their sexuality until an appropriate time and place? Or is it too much to expect an adult to have full control over their own body?
People can learn self-control. The fact that self-control of one's own sexuality is considered somehow repressive is indicative of a lax and selfish attitude with respect to others. Sex deeply affects people emotionally, spiritually, and (surprise!) physically. To reduce it to a mere matter of personal health is ignorant of the fact that it is much more than a mere physical release. It is not merely as simple as relieving a physical urge - if it was, NASA would just tell the astronauts to masturbate and leave it at that.
If we can require an astronaut go through extensive training so that they can cope with the effects of zero gravity for months at a time, why wouldn't we likewise train them to maintain control over their sexual urges under the same circumstances?
Really, I don't have much faith in an astronaut to do his or her job under duress if they can't even learn to control their own body.
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And it IS a requirement for health. Sexual repression and denial of relief has pretty major negative consequences, and really you should dig a little deeper than Slashdot for clinical studies on the subject, of which there is no shortage. A healthy adult is always in part a sexual animal, although certainly there is very wide diversity in how this is satisfied. You seem to forget that there is no
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How do you cope with living in a space vessel the size of a closet with an ex and her new boyfriend?
It's not the logistics of intercourse that are the real problem. It's the social consequences of living with humans in intimate relationships. You can separate sex from intimacy, but intimacy is part of the reason that masturbation isn't enough.
There are also problems such as:
How do we handle astronauts with differing sex drives?
What happens if *no* astronauts are willing
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No sex please... (Score:4, Insightful)
Put something in their tea. I believe they used bromide to suppress the sexual urges of soldiers during the first world war.
But really, is this that big a problem? I believe it's not difficult to chemically suppress sexual urges.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_nitrate (Score:4, Informative)
Re:No sex please... (Score:5, Interesting)
That only worked, because there weren't many females in close proximity. If you interact with them daily, no chemical will help much.
Personally, I think, they should pick swingers [wikipedia.org] for the mission — there will be no reproductive sex on board, so the partners need no particular attachment to each other (as parents-to-be should have). Swingers, who change partners easily, supposedly, can enjoy the physical aspect of it without "drama"...
Finding capable astronauts, who are also into swinging, may be difficult, though...
Brave New World? (Score:2)
MadCow.
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Not *all* humans are heterosexual men, thankyouverymuch...
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Between them and the heterosexual men, we've covered the entire human race
-1 Flamebait here I come...
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Well paid, and well laid. Nothing wrong with that.
~X~
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And a quick search shows my memory serves me: http://www.snopes.com/mili [snopes.com]
Easy. (Score:5, Funny)
Celibate space monks!
How to deal with sexual desires? (Score:5, Funny)
One, don't send people, send robots.
Two, only send people who do not cling to the outdated notion of monogamy and who are also bi-sexual (or at least bi-curious).
Three, castrate and/or otherwise remove the people's sexual desires (there are chemicals that will do only while they are being taken, and when they are stopped being taken, they stop working and everything goes back to normal). With this one, the chemicals would have to be put in the food, otherwise the folk won't take 'em...
Similarly, with death you can also fix any problems, but
One, sending robots.
I'm sure there are other ways (make sure that everyone is mentally well adjusted and so on), but everyone lies on psych tests. (Read Blue Mars.)
Actually, now I've just read the article. What to do with dead bodies
Feed them back into the organic system, feed them into the power plant, throw them out the airlock. What else is there to do? Keep them in storage until the ship gets back to Earth?
Send an M.D. along (Score:5, Funny)
Well... (Score:2, Insightful)
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Why does NASA find it so difficult (Score:2)
a) What happens on tour stays on the tour
b) We ain't nuffin but mammals so let the do it like on the Discovery channel.
Couples? (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems simple when you think about it...
Re:Couples? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you think any marriage could survive the couple being together 24 hours a day in an enclosed space for several years?
We'll find out in a few years. (Score:3, Informative)
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The trick is to find couples with the right personality types. For instance, introverted couples with a deep passion for some solitary pursuit (e.g. music, programming, writing, video games) would likely fair a lot better than extroverted couples that need to socialize and do group activities.
Re:Couples? (Score:5, Interesting)
The secret? Knowing when the other person needs personal space and giving it to them. Same house, different headphones.
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One would think this could be determined experimentally on earth. Hell, it could be self-funding with a reality TV show. Big Brother, but no evictions, three years long, and with highly educated, extremely fit, fighter pilots.
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The problem isn't sex in space, but relationships in space. nasa hasn't figured out that part yet, how much you want to bet they screw it up?
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Re:Couples? (Score:5, Funny)
Story in the Wrong Section (Score:5, Funny)
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Most people here think sex can be downloaded.
the answer has been given about 1400 years ago (Score:2, Interesting)
The answer [usc.edu] Volume 7, Book 62, Number 3 (Sahih Bukhari)
Star Trek answer... (Score:2)
By beaming down to the nearest planet and finding the sexy green alien babes...
Once again, Star Trek shows us the way forward.
Obligatory (Score:5, Funny)
A: Spend $100,000,000 developing high tech, er, appliances that work in zero gravity, then brace for the ensuing scandal when it emerges that the Russians just used pencils...
Alternatively, recruit more nerds and less jocks. Why not advertise on Slashdot?
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Dan East
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That is, of course, a valid solution, but it might not suit everybody. :-)
Healthy? (Score:2, Funny)
Good question (Score:3, Funny)
You mean you don't know?
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To trot or to rot (Score:2)
Short of neutering them, you can do little other than give them contraception, a little privacy (difficult) and train them in emotionally and socially managing the consequences of swinging widely and/or irresponsibly - it would be of primary importance to avoid the onset of sexual jealousy. This will call for a new kind of training, that they are also fit of mind a
Good hands (Score:5, Funny)
Sex is like bridge, after all. You don't need a partner if you have a good hand.
How does WHO deal with it? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:How does WHO deal with it? (Score:4, Interesting)
To develop programs to rid people of nervous system agitation and make people face their fears and prejudices and understand the source of their likes / dislikes, etc:
--Develop programs that expose people to tearing down their dislike / prejudice of others
--Look into religions and other meditative traditions as binding principles.
Many people have gone without sex for years for religious and other reasons (will power, etc) it's not as hard as people make it out to be. What needs to be done is making them aware that their animal nervous system (i.e. their "personal likes / dislikes") are not sacred...
They have to have the wisdom not to temper there spirits... the fact is thats what the really need to do.
Sex in space (Score:4, Funny)
Having put some considerable thought into this matter, I've come to the conclusion that strapping yourselves together with bungee cords would be the best way to cope.
Problem solved (Score:2)
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What about the dead and the ill ? (Score:2)
What is needed is a whole new code of morality or religion even.
The dead and the seriously ill should of course be fed into the fusion reactors as fuel
NASA should employ some anthropoligsts, artists, theologians and great writers of fiction. They s
Stranger In A Strange Land (Score:5, Funny)
Step 1: Change society (Score:2)
Someone mentioned swingers, but seems to think that they'll nail anything that walks, which isn't the case. They still need people they're sexually attracted to, and that their partners are okay with.
What the
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That is sexist, generalizing, b.s, if you ask me.
Marriage (Score:2)
A tricky subject. (Score:5, Insightful)
Think about it, you're cooped up in a limited space with several roommates, an extremely stressful environment, even though there is an individual and collective sense of higher purpose in a manned space mission. But I still think there needs to be...um...release, not just physical (masturbation), but emotional (intercourse). Physical contact is a crucial part of a healthy body and mind.
My solution would probably never be accepted, particularly after the driving from Texas to Florida in diapers fiasco, but here goes:
After extensive psychological screening, accept the super balanced and respectful individuals who are comfortable with a couple-swapping scenario, a collective zero G free love kinda thing. Open minded individuals are way more relaxed than uptight ones, so that would be a plus when you're in a capsule for months if not years. But you probably couldn't tell the US public about it.
Of course, it's likely they'll contemplate going the opposite way and giving the astronauts some sort of medication that suppresses the libido, which in my opinion would be inhumane, not to mention unnecessary.
But then again, like I said, the US is a prudish society. Do we really want prudes to lead the way for humanity?
Death in space. That's gonna be nasty. They'll likely never allow jettisoning the body into space, as it's the body of a hero that deserves the full honors. Remember, the US makes an extra effort to pull the bodies of KIA soldiers from combat zones.
A friend of mine is an astrophysicist and participated in the great neutrino hunt a couple of decades ago in a mine shaft in Alaska during the winter. One of the colleagues died, but they were shut in until weather allowed for a helicopter pickup, so they ended up storing the colleague in the meat freezer. My friend still has occasional nightmares about it, almost twenty years on.
Illness. I can think of nothing more horrifying that being a woman two months out into space, examining myself in the shower and finding a lump in my breast. So antioxidants, vitamin supplements, etc, will have to be an essential part of the rigorous diet, probably organic (no McDonald's for you mister/missus) for a couple of years before the launch. How about a daily glass of red wine and lots of garlic, too?
If NASA tackles the health problem with the same fervor that they tackled the issues surrounding the Moon program, something much better than Tang or Velcro will eventually trickle down to the general public: great advancements in preventive medicine. And who knows what else.
Damn, these issues are fascinating.
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This is also what is done if someone dies on a cruise ship -- the body is kept in a freezer until the next port. There is no morgue, and although there is a doctor's office, the freezer there is NOT big
Fascinating human psychology... (Score:2)
Spay them all :) (Score:3, Funny)
As for critical injuries, these are all professionals, many were test pilots. While some may never have served in the military they already know the risk their profession brings. If you set out the rules ahead of time they will accept their fate should it become an issue. If anything your going to have to deal with more of the non-critically injured wanting to break the rules to save a dieing friend than the other way around.
As for surgery to prevent possible medical complications, thats a mess. You would have to study both the population at large as well as the astronauts family history to see which issues they are prone too.
As for a dead astronaut. Bets are many would prefer to be buried at space if they have no immediate families at home. Still I cannot see why they cannot be ziplocked and stored in a cold but pressurized area of the ship. The only real negative is the emotional stress placed on the remaining crew having a corpse along, a corpse of a friend.
Obvious answer (Score:3, Funny)
Just put relevant legalese into the astronaut EULA pg 27.
Ethics (Score:5, Insightful)
All you have to do to be selected is to agree to have sex with whomever else your employer selects, whether you like them or not.
Hot question; cool answer (Score:5, Insightful)
"One topic that is evidently too hot to handle: How do you cope with sexual desire among healthy young men and women during a mission years long?"
Three words: Pay-per-view. NASA will never again have to worry about funding.
Send older people (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem with a Mars expedition is not getting there; it is getting there with enough fuel to return the crew to Earth. Solution? Don't return. Rather than sending the young and healthy, send the old and reasonably healthy: men and women in the 60+ age range who are in reasonably good physical shape and who volunteer for a one-way mission. They are told from the outset that they have x years supplies; that more will be sent if possible; and that if the impulse engine is invented someone will come pick them up. Otherwise they should reserve some time early on after landing to locate a suitable site for a cometary and chip out some tombstones, then get to work exploring and naming things after themselves.
This wouldn't automatically solve the sex problem given today's "more active seniors", but people of that age have less urgent sex drives and are generally better able to negotiate/handle the emotional and interpersonal situations as well.
sPh
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