Cancer Fighting Drug Found in Dirt 184
firesquirt writes "From an article in LiveScience, the bark of certain yew trees can yield a medicine that fights cancer. Now scientists find the dirt that yew trees grow in can supply the drug as well, suggesting a new way to commercially harvest the medicine."
Next headline... (Score:5, Funny)
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Moreso, the last thing any pharmaceutical monopoly can afford is for people to get better very easily. For this reason cures are highly guarded discoveries: there are many cures around we don't have access to, and perhaps never will, either because they threaten
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I dunno, they do a fairly good job of charging a fortune for diagnostic equipment, consumables, etc. For example, diabetics' glucometers take tiny little sticks which seem to be mainly plastic and cotton wool, and are used and disposed of at a rate of four or five
Re:Next headline... (Score:5, Insightful)
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So, what you're saying is that all of the researchers who worked so long, and hard when they developed the cure for muscular distrophy back in the 1980s are being paid hush money, and that's why they have those telethons?
I'll admit that at a glance it looks like you could make more money treating the symptoms than curing the disease. The problem is that once a cure is developed, you have to suppress the researchers, many of whom are mot
Re:Next headline... (Score:5, Insightful)
Uninformed conspiracy nuts seem to think Pharm companies do all the medical research. The NIH (National Institutes of Health) will spend more than 28+ Billion on medical research this year (your tax dollars at work). I do research funded by them. My work is all published in journals you are free to subscribe to, or browse for free at your local research university's library.
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Bear in mind also that a cure can be published in detail while also remaining patented: don't get patentability mixed up with copyright.
As a medical researcher, you mind find it interesting - perhaps disturbing - to read the following:
Stagnation in the Drug Development Process: Are Patents the Problem? [cepr.net]
TRIPS and pharmace [wto.org]
Re:Next headline... (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no grand conspiracy as you would have others believe to keep cures hidden. As I said, NIH does most of the basic research for exploring biology and finding new drugs. Pharm companies do some drug exploration, but the bulk of their research dollars are spent on clinical trials which are *extremely* expensive. Many times there are candidate drugs which don't go on to clinical trials. These are not 'hidden'. Anyone is free to look at the literature to see them. And many researchers I know who have published new exciting results, try to get a story in the more general public news. This gets their name out there, and the Institute/University they work at gets some press that they love. Once again, not hidden. No conspiracy.
Patents are an entirely different issue. Patents are public record. Once again, they aren't hidden from you. Drugs generally have a use patent, so it's easy to see exactly what disease they are for the treatment of. Nothing hidden. Also patents don't last forever. Anyone with a patented drug that works will try to sell it like made for several years, because the patent is going to expire, and then anyone will be able to make a generic version of it, with no patent worries.
If the company patented a drug and sits on it because they don't think they will recoup as much as it would cost to do the trials/manufacturing, well, the patent is still going to expire, so others will be able to use it then. Nothing hidden again. No conspiracy.
Now, if the original company didn't want to go through the expense of doing clinical trials for it because they didn't think they would recoup their money, no one else is likely to want to foot the bill entirely either, since when they get it passed, all their competitors are then free to manufacture generic versions as well.
It all boils down to clinical trials, and who pays for the huge expense of them. No one wants to foot the bill for unpatentable or patent-expired drugs because it's 100+ million down hole for the company doing the trials, and a free ride for all their competitors. It's just terrible business sense. No 'conspiracy' involved at all.
Put away the tinfoil hats. It comes down to simple business decisions a 12-year old should be able to grasp. Blaming pharm companies and academic researchers for 'conspiring' to keep them off the shelf is simply stupid.
If you want a better system for orphan drugs, then lobby your congressmen to expand NIH funding to include drug trials for orphan drugs. Public dollars would be well worth spending in that area.
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The issue is also not about government efforts to fund research for cures using tax payer's money. Of course this happens and of course it is good. The issue at hand surrounds the role patents play in the strategic interests of pharmaceutical corporations, many of which are multi-nationals, to the ends that patents are actively used to restrict the fabrication and consequent distribution of cures known to save li
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Mostly, I agree with you; but, there are cases where the "tinfoil hat" IS the business decision that the twelve-year-old can grasp:
"Cure vs treatment". The profit motive (by itself) would far rather sell a treatment than a cure.
So they are hiding the cures because they want to sell a treatment? Who is hiding it? Who discovered it that has that motive? As I said before, NIH dollars fund the most basic research which leads to new biology/drugs. Pha
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Yes there are government incentives to develop orphan drugs, but they are relatively small compared to the expense/risk of development. That's one of the reasons you see so few developed.
Think of the effort we could be putting forth on research to cure cancer if we spent the money on it we are spending on the war in Iraq. There's something to lobby your congressman abo
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And you mean fighting in the middle of a civil war, not terrorism. There were no terrorists in Iraq until we took out the old regime.
Oh, and btw, you must be using Republican accounting numbers. Once you add in all the misc expenses such as projected future bills from caring for the tens of thousands of wounded American soldiers for the next forty years, etc, the total bill goes easily over a full trillion.
Journals (Score:2)
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medical research spending (Score:2)
Uninformed conspiracy nuts seem to think Pharm companies do all the medical research. The NIH (National Institutes of Health) will spend more than 28+ Billion on medical research this year (your tax dollars at work).
This drug, Taxol, is a good example of government spending on medical research. Taxol was developed and tested by the NCI, it cost $183,000,000. But then the NCI rurned around and pratically gave away the rights to all the test data to Bristol-Myers Squibb for a measly $43,000,000.
Falcon
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If only it were so simple. So you've discovered some dirt that fights cancer -- so what? We have as many compounds that fight cancer as we have compounds that cause cancer. If you want to really cure people, we're talking scientific medicine, not feel-good natural herbal supplements. That
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Wrong. (Score:2)
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Drug companies cannot possibly sell drugs for near the cost of manufacture. Most of the cost of getting a drug to market is in the research that went into developing the drug. First, chemists and biologists need to creat
You didn't read, did you. (Score:2)
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You're still missing my point. (Score:2)
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Yes, you *are* whining. (Score:2)
Bloke down the pub: Government research programs are inherently wasteful, and would never work.
Me: Actually, a government program discovered the drug we're discussing--but the patent was essentially handed to BMS, and they're gouging patients.
You: Drug companies have to charge a lot for drugs because of the R&D costs. Government-funded research programs would never work.
Me: But BMS didn't bear the R&D
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Most of the cost of getting a drug to market is in the research that went into developing the drug.... Perhaps you'd rather pay taxes to fund only government-sponsored research instead?
But it was government sponsored research that led to this drug! The NCI spent $183,000,000 to develop and test Taxol. It then "sold" the rights to all of the data needed to gain FDA approval exclusively to Bristol-Myers Squibb for a measly $43,000,000. The NCI spent $140,000,000 more than it got back.
Falcon
I never said that. (Score:2)
Bloke down the pub: The right hand is the only hand that counts. The left hand is never useful--it would have totally bollocksed up this program.
Me: But t
It *was* funded by the government. (Score:2)
Interesting. References? (Score:2)
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Taxol (Score:2)
Your joke points to a sad reality however, that it's only through patenting cures (ie having a monopoly over a cure) can pharmaceutical companies (free enterprises) get the investment capital to develop medicines. Cures are IP, traded and guarded.
In this case, Taxol, the company that markets and distributes the drug didn't spend a dime on developing the drug. The National Cancer Institute, NCI, spent $183,000,000 to develop and test Taxol. Then the NCI turned around and "sold", what a joke, the rights
Oh, more DCA stuff. Whee. (Score:2)
In short: (a) The drug has never been actually given to live people for c
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But if it's so cheap and simple, why aren't the uncapitalist socialist-medicine countries developing it?
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But if it's so expensive to develop this drug, then how does one defend the argument that it's really cheap and simple, and therefore evidence of a conspiracy that Big Pharma isn't doing it already?
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Maybe we're reading different articles. The one I read is about a compound called DCA which has already been tested and which is cheap to produce. Maybe Big Pharma is blocking this in the US, but then why hasn't Canada added it to the drinking water along with fluoride?
Or if you're talking about Taxol, which is what TFA was about, the new twist there was developed in the US in conjunction with a US private company, Weyerhauser. They evidently think it's profitable. So what are you even talking about?
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Steven R. Donaldson declared a saint (Score:2)
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Wouldn't that me loam?
BTW, that was a great series of books.
In the greater scheme of things... (Score:5, Funny)
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You will find many, many instances in literature that use 'from whence'. However, the 'from' is redundant.
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"It's not about yew!!! You need to get right, and read my latest book: 'I Made Dirt, My Dirt Don't Hurt'".
Many a true word spoken in jest... (Score:2)
Time and time again... (Score:4, Insightful)
Silly monkeys.
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In fact we ostracise those that insist that there are natural alternatives to fight serious diseases which are conventionally either uncurable or unlikely to be cured even with costly conventional treatments involved.
\sigh
Re:Time and time again... (Score:5, Informative)
Bayer managed to patent not Asprin itself but the process of synthesising it. As I don't believe you can patent discoveries even in the US.
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Hence the reason you concentrate the salicylic acid from the willow bark by making a tea out of it.
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Sorry to burst your bubble but water doesn't magically increase/decrease the concentration of active ingredients in the bark.
An infusion made from an unknown quantity of active ingredient is still an unknown quantity, unless you have an extraction/purification method that returns a known concentration of the active ingredient you still don't know how much is there.
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You seem to imply that it is somehow hypocritical to use one natural remedy but not another, but the difference is that this one works while the other ones don't.
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I also think you're mistaking the meaning of "results". Results have varying degrees, and while some "modern" medicine does have more effective, long-term results, you'll find plenty of people who use homeopathic options also have results. Most of those people also note a better standard of livi
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Who's talking about a cure? Other than quacks trying to sell people false hope?
you'll find plenty of people who use homeopathic options also have results.
You are familiar with the placebo effect, I would hope.
You also seem to be discounting placebo effect. Placebo effect can be very powerful, and I'm sure you can find some cases where a person was "cured" with a placebo.
I guess you are. And you know why I discount it? Because it relies on lying to the patient and ha
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How is this not flamebait? (Score:2)
There are many routes to finding this knowledge other than your scientific ones. Natives in North and South America, as well as Africa, have medicine men who work on some completely different level than you or I. They have knowledge of plants and combinations of plants for many therapeutic purposes that we would take hundreds of years to figure out; they've just always known about them. If you asked one of them, they'd tell you that the plants spoke to them and told them about themselves.
We want to think w
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Yeah. Totally not the people to whom I was referring. I'm speaking more of people that I've met in the rainforests of Costa Rica that have a sense of the natural world around them so keen and intuitive to them that it's almost as if they were born with it. There's stuff they know that we still don't
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Humans have a significant impact on their environment but who's to say its a negative imapact. If we want to play the part of nature for a moment and begin to think in timescales of billions of years then human activity so far is utterly insignificant and since nature has no point of view it's impossible to say whether that insignificant activity was either a posit
Here we go again (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Here we go again (Score:5, Interesting)
I guess it's like saying a certain finding advances "science". But wait, you say, there are a lot of sciences! Yes, there are, and the finding most likely only really advances one of the sciences
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Re:Here we go again (Score:5, Insightful)
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But do most people know about these differences? Hell, I'll admit that even I have no idea what you're talking about. All I know is that mutations in cells's DNA can cause them to replicate uncontrollably, hence cancer. There are differences in lung/blod/colon/skin cancer? Sounds plausible! ... but I have no idea what they are. To me, and to most normal people, "cancer" encompasses all cancers.
A common misconception. Cancer is a catch-all term for more than 100 diseases that display similar characteristics - the ability to mask itself from the host immune system, angiogenesis and some cell replication tricks that normal cells can't pull off.
The spousal unit has been undergoing treatment for Stage IV breast cancer for almost eight years - it had already metastasized to her lungs by the time she was diagnosed. Breast cancer in your lungs is still breast cancer and at least as far as medical
get tested for colon cancer! (Score:2)
Do NOT follow the federal guidelines for getting tested for colon cancer. They recommend you start at 50. Well, I'm 47 and apparently I've had it for a couple of years, and in a couple of weeks I'll be having my colon removed and little bag stuck to my side for the rest of my life.
The good news I'll still have a life.
And counter-intuitive as it may seem, consider getting a female doctor. Smaller fingers.
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It's like saying: a drug against virus has been found. Hell! WHAT virus? They are all different!
Yes, but a drug that targets viruses specifically, when it will be found, will be revolutionary. There is currently no "antibiotic" against viruses.
Although cancer is another subject, still - these cells should have perform apoptosis [wikipedia.org] and they didn't. Can there be a way to trigger this process in cancer cells?
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There is currently no "antibiotic" against viruses.
Actually, there are a few antivirals [wikipedia.org] and, as with bacteria and antibiotics, different viruses are immune to different antivirals.
Antibiotics are a lot easier to develop than antivirals, however. A bacterium is basically a cell, and 'all' you need to do is find a poison that will kill it but not hurt the host too much. An antiviral, in contrast, has to attack individual proteins, ideally those that are not found in the host at all and are found in all known strains of the virus. If there were a protein
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There are similarities in many cancers in how they operate and often, a single drug can be effective against
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Don't they all start with a genetic error, and failure of the DNA repair mechanisms to catch that error? I understood that most broad anti-cancer agents (e.g. whatever it is in tumeric that helps) bolster the DNA repair mechanism.
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To make a fascinating story short, he claims that cancer is a result of chromosomal damage and reshuffling, not gene mutations. He provides very compelling chromosome diagrams showing the pieces of chromosomes scattered all over. (Chromosome 2 has pieces
And you though RMS was just a smelly hippie (Score:3, Funny)
Wow (Score:4, Funny)
Well i never.... (Score:1)
It's Soil (Score:1, Informative)
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so close (Score:1)
Pacific Yew (Score:3, Interesting)
This basically means the species is "considered threatened with extinction in the near future". With such a large area of yew trees producing such a small amount of drug, careful measures are going to have to be taken so as not to kill off our new hope for a cancer cure. It's also quite interesting to note that the yew only grows to about 15metres, and so much smaller than what i would know as a (european) yew tree.
How is this news? (Score:2)
So much for our parents telling us not to eat dirt (Score:3, Insightful)
Profit at the lowest levels... (Score:1)
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Even of the drug isn't able to be synthesized, planting something that could extract the drug and then processing that might be a better solution. There are certain plants that absorb chemicals/minerals/vitamins and a lot of other
Cancer Fighting Drug Found in Dirt (Score:5, Funny)
The things people throw away these days...
Eat dirt and... live? (Score:1)
It isn't a new medicine just a new way to get it (Score:3, Informative)
It's a good drug (Score:2, Informative)
I'd heard at the time that it was becoming viable because they'd found a way of synthesising it using chemicals extracted from the needles of the tree, so reducing the impact on the tree. If they can get hold of it with less impact on the t
Hopefully (Score:3, Funny)
Kid oath.... (Score:2)
"god made dirt, dirt don't hurt...."
It's not the tree - it's the microbes (Score:5, Interesting)
Barking mad (Score:2, Funny)
Well, there's a new one... (Score:4, Funny)
Bah, it just goes to show (Score:2, Funny)
the surprise is they didn't check earlier (Score:2)
so why didn't anybody think to check the ground around yew trees earlier for taxol?
moral: everybody fouls their nest. expect it. what, you never heard of an alpha geek who got fired for being the alpha?
Mystical Sheena dirt cures diseases (Score:2)
Ah, good ol' handouts. (Score:2)
So, in short: citizens pay for research whic
american chestnut (Score:2)
Insert next Environmental Crisis (Score:2)
I can see it now . . .
Due to harvesting we are now facing a crisis in our Earth's most valuable natural asset, Dirt. We must do something now, or soon we will be floating in space without a Planet!
Second best headline ever (Score:2)
Time's Cancer Drug of the Year (Score:2)
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