Gifted Children Find Heavy Metal Comforting

An anonymous reader writes "The Daily Telegraph is reporting that intelligent teenagers often listen to heavy metal music to cope with the pressures associated with being talented, according to research. Researchers found that, far from being a sign of delinquency and poor academic ability, many adolescent "metalheads" are extremely bright and often use the music to help them deal with the stresses and strains of being gifted social outsiders."

Punk

[BWJones]

Part of me wants to respond in an incredibly cynical manner to this as most "intelligent teenagers" are smart enough to be aware of much of the bullshit associated with growing up and being aware of wider sociopolitical, environmental and other issues and they need a release for the anger. Other cynical parts of me want to say they are also smart enough to be able to recognize the top 40 drivel that is being disseminated by the recording industry.

However, stepping back from the cynicism, I would note that this was always my experience with the punk scene. Specifically, most people I knew in the scene were incredibly talented, highly intelligent and for the most part more articulate than average. I always wondered how it was that we seemed to find one another, self assemble and take part in a scene that was a retreat of sorts from lives and upbringings that were in most cases not "Leave it to Beaver" or "The Cosby Show" type lives.

Re:Punk

[Frosty Piss]

Other cynical parts of me want to say they are also smart enough to be able to recognize the top 40 drivel that is being disseminated by the recording industry.

Really? Isn't most head bangin' heavy metal disseminated by the recording industry?

Re:Punk

[BWJones]

Really? Isn't most head bangin' heavy metal disseminated by the recording industry?

Perhaps you are revealing just how aware you are.... ;-)

Seriously though, there is *lots* of very good music out there including metal and punk that does not come through the big RIAA dominated scene. If you will note, that is why I invoked punk.

Re:Punk

[Terminal Saint]

Strictly speaking, punk ONLY comes from non-RIAA sources. As soon as you sell out you're not playing punk anymore, just a sad mockery of it.

Re:

[confusednoise]

Strictly speaking then, we don't count the following bands as being punk:

The Ramones
The Clash
Sex Pistols
The Stooges

All released on major labels (therefore RIAA)....lots and lots more, but I'm lazy. The whole "sell out" label that holier than thou types throw around with abandon really annoys the piss out of me.

Re:Punk

[Terminal Saint]

Congratulations! Your post makes it clear that you are officially "too cool for the hype" and thereby qualifies you for hipster status. Just let us know where you want the certificate sent.

Re:

[dank zappingly]

Damn, thanks for the information about punk rock. And to think, a true punk like yourself managed to stop thrashing long enough to sign on to Slashdot "News for Nerds" and tell all of us. Get over yourself. The only punk that died in 1979 was Sid Vicious.

Re:

[MsGeek]

Indeed. He might have described when punk rock died in New York, but around that time it EXPLODED in LA, OC and San Francisco. And then the torch moved north to Portland and Seattle.

Whenever a lot of people talk about punk they forget LA, OC and the Bay Area. All they see is New York, London and Seattle. There's a lot missing in the standard narrative about punk, and it has to do with missing chapters in California.

And remember: it's 30 years since the year Two Sevens Clashed. God that makes me feel old.

Re:Punk

[pinkstuff]

No.

It depends on your definition tho, the recording industry puts a lot of music out that they call Heavy Metal. It is quite easy for the avid Heavy Metal listener to filter out that crud.

In other words, what they call Heavy Metal just ain't Heavy Metal :). Just look at Strapping Young Lad [centurymedia.com], those ugly old bastards are a PR/records label nightmare!

Re:Punk

[alienuforia]

Really? Isn't most head bangin' heavy metal disseminated by the recording industry?

Nope. Actually, there's a truckload of metal out there that is completely dissociated from the current Top 40 music scene. In many ways, the realm of Top 40 radio hits has been on a dying path for some years. It still persists because it was a convenient way to find good music before the dawn of the digital age, and there will always be those among the masses too lazy to find what suits them best. Top 40 music is consistently available for those people looking for catchy tunes, but I believe you will find a much richer world of music if you look deeper into the lists of independent artists and bands out there. That feeling of discovering a new group with fresh sounds is unsurpassed by the record industry's efforts to pump out "Top Hits" every month.

If you think a record label and great music are exclusively hand-in-hand, then you are short-changing yourself in the world of music that exists today. You can find just about any genre that will blow your ears away from the lyrical depth, passion, and creative quality not found in the work of artists signed by the RIAA. Independent labels are unbound by the chains of corporate earnings and contract clauses that each record label artist must sign upon entering the business. That kind of unbridled freedom to make music is exciting in the mind of this audiophile. That's not to say that the RIAA doesn't have some great bands signed up, but the worldwide music scene has grown larger than the industry itself. You no longer need them to bring you good music when it's already sitting out there.

Re:

[Sloppy]

Isn't most head bangin' heavy metal disseminated by the recording industry?

If by "most," you mean "nearly none," then yeah. Sheesh, go to a metal show sometime. After the show, when you're buying a shirt and CD so that the band has enough gas money to get to the next town, look at the "label" on the CD. It's almost always just some guy working out of his house, and he sure as hell ain't an RIAA member. Call it a recording "industry" if you want, but you just made that word mean nothing.

RTFA, baby.

[khasim]

Asked for their favourite type of music, 39 per cent said rock, 18 per cent R&B and 14 per cent pop. Six per cent said heavy metal and a third rated it in their top five genres.

  6% - Heavy Metal
14% - Pop

More of them listed the Britney Spears genre than the Angus Young genre.

I'd say there might be some flaws in this "study". :)

Re:RTFA, baby.

[dunng808]

... any study that does not indicate a significant penetration of hip hop is biased.

The story is from England. They have hip hip, but no hip hop.

On a different tack, how does the genera spread compare with the general population within this age group? Are gifted English students more likely to listen to heavy metal than average kids? Or is this study aimed at consoling parents?

Re:

[Fred_A]

The story is from England. They have hip hip, but no hip hop.

And if it had been from Australia they would only have had hop hop ???

Re:RTFA, baby.

[hobo sapiens]

I mean, hey anyone can tap their foot to an R&B song because they all have a beat... and nothing else.

Aw cmon, now. That's just like the R&B kids calling heavy metal "crazy devil music". There is some good R&B out there just like there's some good metal. What you said is just as ridiculous as the guy above who said punk was dead.

Re:RTFA, baby.

[Woldry]

You're not that far off. Mozart was the heavy metal of his day.

Re:RTFA, baby.

[shawb]

Pfft. Mozart wasn't metal. For a real metal musician from the era, look to Niccolò Paganini. "It was common for him to arrive at a concert in a black coach drawn by black horses. Paganini himself would wear black." [brick.net] and "Paganini's technique was outstanding and unusual, but it was his satanic bearing which caused great crowds to attend his concerts." Finally, because "Paganini had refused the final sacrament, he could not be buried. His remains were kept in a basement for five years"

Mozart was more rock star than metal.

Re:RTFA, baby.

[cliffski]

paganini was also a savvy businessman. The whole 'black clothes' thing started after someone declared that his prowess on the violin must mean he was in league with the devil. That sold tickets, and paginini went out of his way to encourage that image, because he knew it attracted crowds.
He was also a womaniser, always lusting after rich influential peoples wives and daughetrs. As i recall it was some sexually transmitted disease that finally finished him off.
He used to play free gigs in graveyards to the poor as well, that probably helped his 'metal' image.

You know who's really metal?

[StringBlade]

Jesus is fucking metal [penny-arcade.com]!

Re:Punk

[Turn-X Alphonse]

A lot of punks are very intelligent people (in a very warped way geeks are punks in many ways, we tend to over lap and have a usually left wing mentality), but you have to remember punk as we it should be is rather dead. Punk got too mainstream to the point where it became pop music and all it stood for became "lets do drugs and break stuff!" in the current climate. These "neo punks" are little more than teeny boppers dressed up as something else, still looking for something to call their own and a scene where "no one cares what you are (cough how it used to be cough)" is the obvious place to settle.

As for heavy metal being related to gifted children.. Hmm no. Because music is a personal thing and people will tend to enjoy what they are exposed to at a young age and leaves a lasting impression. So right now rap, girl bands, heavy metal (the pointless screaming type) and punk would be popular with children (0-12ish) in most cases. Where as back in my day (born 86) we had more dance music and retro stuff from the 70s and 80s still hanging around. Which would be very similar to my taste in music now.

Plus children are fickle, if we gave them the entire catalog of music they would have a new favourite band/style every other day.

Re:Punk

[Original Replica]

Heavy metal and punk both have two characteristics that could easily appeal to gifted kids. There is a rejection of the mainstream average(you-don't-understand-me) and an inclusion in a brotherhood of "different-but-better". This misunderstood elite is obviously going to appeal to kids that are bored in class and frequently ostricized because of thier intelligence. Why do you think "news for nerds" is a source of pride for /.ers ?

Re:

[suv4x4]

Why do you think "news for nerds" is a source of pride for /.ers ?

Actually I'm ashamed I go back here and read Slashdot, but I'm addicted to posting comments clarifying the BS posing as articles. It's a trap. For reals.

Re:Punk

[anaesthetica]

in a very warped way geeks are punks in many ways, we tend to over lap and have a usually left wing mentality

I think this may reflect you reading your own political position into punk/geek culture more than anything else. Geeks and Punks share a kind of anti-authoritarianism that doesn't map well into the (mostly bullshit) left-right political spectrum. Geek libertarianism and Punk DIY-anarchism fit parts of the left and parts of the right. Matching the left, they care about solidarity, anti-corporatism, and socio-cultural liberty. Matching the right, they care about negative freedoms (small, limited government as opposed to the nanny state) and "rugged individualism."

Re:

[jejones]

In a bizarre way, that common description of libertarianism is sort of like accepting "grue" and "bleen" [wikipedia.org] as fundamental terms. Wouldn't it be better to describe the right and left as supporting liberty to varying extents and in different areas?

Re:

[Darby]

When the hell was the right wing about small governments? The right Wing has majorly changed in the last 5-6 years.. O.o

Never. The right and the left are both in favor of big government since they're defined by how they like to use that big government against the people.
The left to enforce their ideas of equality and the right to enforce their ideas of inequality or elitism.
The right hasn't changed since the term came into being when the nobility and the Church sat on the right hand side of the aisle in the

Re:Punk

[laszlo462]

Where as back in my day (born 86)

What the hell are you talking about? Back in "your day" was like 4 years ago.

Re:Punk

[AcidArrow]

Meh.

Linking music tastes and intelligence is really, really, wrong. What kind of music you like depends on so many factors, mostly environmental but... anyway.

Let's take a look at the article:

Mr Cadwallader then held an online discussion involving 19 members of the academy, 17 of whom were heavy metal fans.

Translation: Some psychologist asked some kids what kind of music they liked and they answered heavy metal. Oh and they also weren't complete idiots.
Since the sample was so big (almost 20 people!), obviously all "gifted" (definition?) children must listen to heavy metal. But since most of heavy metal is crap, he couldn't help but wonder why did these kids listen to this kind of crap.

One student said: "It helps me with stress. It's the general thrashiness of it. You can't really jump your anger into the floor and listen to your music at the same time with other types of music."

Ah! That makes sense, because smart people worry about society and stuff. The psychologist thought that his findings were so great he had to share them with the rest of the world, but he needed some statistics, so on his way home he asked some more kids about what kind of music they liked so he can make useless statistics that help make a research look all that much more professional:

The researchers surveyed 1,057 members of the National Academy for Gifted and Talented Youth - a body whose 120,000 student members are within the top five per cent academically in the 11-19 age range. Asked for their favourite type of music, 39 per cent said rock, 18 per cent R&B and 14 per cent pop. Six per cent said heavy metal and a third rated it in their top five genres.

Okay so he found that from a group of supposedly smart kids (although I'm not sure that academia equals intelligence), SIX percent really likes bands like tool, slipknot and system of a down (which are very popular bands anyway) and about one third said "tool? they're cool, I used to listen to aenima a lot". Did that miniscule percentage surprise him that much that he had to go and tell the world?

Re:Rap on the other hand...

[shaitand]

Yup that is what I remember. It wasn't even a racial thing. Don't get me wrong, racial slurs were tossed around like candy but in the small town I lived in most of the youth hadn't even met someone of another race. All the 'rapper' kids were just wiggers and we laughed at them.

Then there were the preps. They dressed like the wiggers (because that Nike and sports stuff was expensive and the preps had to flaunt money) and usually listened to rap/hip-hop/etc but at least they didn't usually come up to you and call you G or tell you they were a blood or crypt.

I remember at a small gathering one time a so called blood was bragging about his brotherhood and status. A friend shaped a 'B' out of a wire hanger and branded him with it. Convinced him that it would show his loyalty. The following day he spread it around town that so and so was his bitch and he had branded him to prove it. The kid showed his 'B' all over town and it was a good month before he found out why everyone thought it was so funny.

Gifted find *eating* heavy metal comforting

[DeadSea]

If you are having trouble being gifted, try eating heavy metals rather than listening to heavy metal. That way you won't be gifted very long.

Re:

[cuantar]

That's actually what I thought the article was about after reading the headline: gifted teenagers experiencing life-changing epiphanies after eating lead paint.

It's so true.

[grub]

Let's see... I'm 41, have loved metal since I was 14 (Motorhead is the greatest band EVAR) and am the smartest guy on slashdot...
The evidence is overwhelming.

Re:

[BWJones]

Ha ha ha grub,

Very funny. Seriously though, you should know that there is *always* someone smarter than you out there. The trick I've found is to find as many of them as you can and surround yourself with them so they continue to challenge you, introduce you to new thinking etc...etc...etc...

Re:

[BWJones]

Yes, I've met him. Killed him shortly thereafter... ;)

I had a Drill Sgt. tell me once that he always had a plan to kill whoever he met, particularly if they were smarter than he was. He followed that up by saying that since I made him laugh and could think him out of a bad situation, he'd kill me last.

Jokes aside, I've loved metal, punk, thrash, etc. since I first heard it. Oddly enough I love classical music too (even Joyce Hatto. Ha!) but can't stand country music, rap, hip hop....

Not unusual. Lots of m

Re:

[myowntrueself]

Jokes aside, I've loved metal, punk, thrash, etc. since I first heard it. Oddly enough I love classical music too

Motorhead *is* classical music.

Seriously... metal of all types is a natural offshoot of western classical music as punk is of folk music.

Compare Jake Thackray and the Sex Pistols. They even sing about the same things. Almost.

Re:It's so true.

[CheeseTroll]

My college roommate and I figured that Vivaldi was the lead headbanger of the baroque period.

Re:

[kisielk]

Metal music often uses similar scales (harmonic minor is very popular..) as much of what most people think of as "classical music". Many of the movements and progressions are also very similar.

Some don't even try to hide it, for example "Classical Metal" like some of the works of Yngwie Malmsteen...

Re:It's so true.

[BWJones]

IS that why you repeat something other people have said to try and grab Karma?

Here, let me repeat something that someone else has said. "Go fsck yourself....." :-)

In all honesty though, I've been around Slashdot for a while now (since '97 or '98) and am not remotely concerned about making cheap karma grabs.

Re:

[Jesterboy]

IRON MAIDEN?!

Excellent idea, old bean!

Re:It's so true.

[Dachannien]

You forgot the heavy metal umlaut! [wikipedia.org]

Heavy Metal

[user24]

Yeah, I love listening to mercury

Re:Heavy Metal

[Gonarat]

[smartass]Freddie and Queen ain't Heavy Metal.[/smartass]

Yep.

[MostAwesomeDude]

It's entirely true. I first dug into Metallica and Black Sabbath when I was about 13, and I find myself hooked on Dream Theater, Shadow Gallery, and Symphony X now.

Hard rock, progressive rock, and heavy metal all usually talk about social and political issues in a manner that is both musical and lyrical, and it's a lot easier to dig into and associate with than the lamenting dorks that populate alternative and indie rock nowadays.

Re:

[rob1980]

Dream Theater owns my face. And you're exactly right about social issues, how about Kick the Chair by Megadeth, or The Great Debate by DT? Better than some hip gangsta rollin on dubs.

Re:Yep.

[psykocrime]

Dream Theater owns my face. And you're exactly right about social issues, how about Kick the Chair by Megadeth, or The Great Debate by DT? Better than some hip gangsta rollin on dubs.

Yep. And how about S.D.I. by Bonfire, Fight for Your Rights by Motley Crue, Symphony of Destruction by Megadeth, When Freedom Dies by Nuclear Assault, The Needle Lies by Queensryche, Lack of Communication by Ratt, Institutionalized by Suicidal Tendencies, etc., etc. Lots of metal bands have written songs that were raised awareness and created discussion about important social issues. The myth that metal is all nihilistic "suicide music" is so much bullshit...

Re:

[shaitand]

Yeah, its too bad that Metallica sold out. Most of my friends though the black album sucked. I thought the black album was good but that they should have released it under a different name since it wasn't proper Metallica. Everything that came after the black album has been shit, regardless of what name you stick on the label.

So if you want to find some smart kids...

[condour75]

Look for the ones with AC/DC and Metallica shirts. Also look for signs of Aspberger's syndrome in their interaction with hippie teachers, redneck neighbors, Daria...

Re:

[aaron p. matthews]

Uh huh huh huh uh uh huh uh huh

Re:So if you want to find some smart kids...

[linguizic]

You said assburger, huh-huh-huhu-huh...

Also..

[Doddman]

Consider that some heavy metal is very intellegent music. Sure, when most people hear "heavy metal" they think Slipknot, Korn, Marilyn Manson and the ilk, but I can get into some Iron Maiden (The Rime of the Ancient Mariner is singularly the greatest metal song ever, and not only for it's music), Metallica (80's era) has some great political meaning, and Tool is fun to listen to and try to contemplate the possible meanings of the song. Or am I the only gifted nerd who thinks so?

Marilyn Manson

[ScaryMonkey]

As a side note, I've seen a couple interviews with Marilyn Manson and he comes across as surprisingly intelligent and well-spoken, even while still wearing the freaky makeup.

Re:Marilyn Manson

[jamrock]

"As a side note, I've seen a couple interviews with Marilyn Manson and he comes across as surprisingly intelligent and well-spoken, even while still wearing the freaky makeup."

Florence Henderson (the mother in The Brady Bunch) said almost the exact same thing after meeting Marilyn Manson on Bill Maher's former show, Politically Incorrect. She was doing an interview and was asked how she felt about the incongruity of the two of them participating in a round table discussion, and she replied that she thoroughly enjoyed talking with him. She said that she was struck by how intelligent and articulate he was, and that she found him to be extremely charming.

Re:Also..

[dc29A]

Consider that some heavy metal is very intellegent music. Sure, when most people hear "heavy metal" they think Slipknot, Korn, Marilyn Manson and the ilk, but I can get into some Iron Maiden (The Rime of the Ancient Mariner is singularly the greatest metal song ever, and not only for it's music), Metallica (80's era) has some great political meaning, and Tool is fun to listen to and try to contemplate the possible meanings of the song. Or am I the only gifted nerd who thinks so?

The beauty of metal, especially after it's "death" in the early 90s is that it's been reborn and many new sub genres are born. Everything from Symphonic Metal to Melodic Death to Progressive to Doom to Gothic to whatever!

Some lesser known but very talented bands:

Therion [wikipedia.org] - Sopranos, tenors, baritones, lot of classical instruments. Pure genius. Theli, Vovin, Secret of the Runes are great albums. Their live shows are also very interesting, they usually travel with about 5-6 opera singers.

The Gathering [wikipedia.org] - One of the first gothic metal bands (now more gothic/atmospheric rock). Mandylion, if_then_else, How to measure a planet, are all very good. Due to some experimental guitar work, their style has been labeled sometimes "shoe gazing".

Tiamat [wikipedia.org] - Pink Floyd meets Gothic Metal. Wildhoney is among the best gothic metal albums. Awesome albums are also Prey and A deeper kind of slumber. Another band that evolved from extreme metal to some weird psychedelic gothic style.

Agalloch [wikipedia.org] - Atmospheric, lot of doom/dark ambiance. Every record from this band is worth it's weight in gold. I do have a soft spot for Ashes against the grain.

Nightwish [wikipedia.org] - One of the bands who defines the Symphonic Metal sub genre. Lot of uplifting melodies, great shows. Once, Century Child and Oceanborn are really good.

Katatonia [wikipedia.org] - Everything from doom metal to gothic rock. They started as some extreme metal band and evolved into some weird dark/doom rock/metal mix. Viva Emptiness and The Great Cold Distance are great.

Symphony X [wikipedia.org] - Progressive Metal at it's best. Jazz and classical influences. Albums like The Diving Wings of Tragedy and V are their best.

Iced Earth [wikipedia.org] - How Metallica should have evolved. The Gettysburg 1863 trilogy is a pure masterpiece of symphonic metal. The rest of their work is more classical thrash with Iron Maidenesque melodies and gallops. Something Wicked and Dark Saga are very strong albums.

Opeth [wikipedia.org] - Progressive Death Metal, extreme on some albums and some dark haunting lullabies on some others. Orchid, Damnation and Deliverance are my favorites.

Ayreon [wikipedia.org] - One composer, Arjen Lucassen, almost every album is a concept album. Invites various singers to sing for him. Style is mostly progressive rock/metal.

Tristania [wikipedia.org] - Probably the most beautiful female voice in the metal world (hopefully the future Nightwish singer). Ashes and World of Glass are amazing gothic metal albums.

Really?

[mushadv]

I thought'd it be math rock. [wikipedia.org]

Sorry, sorry, sorry. I'll leave through the side door.

Uh, wrong. Headline is misleading..

[Swift Kick]

From the article:

The researchers surveyed 1,057 members of the National Academy for Gifted and Talented Youth - a body whose 120,000 student members are within the top five per cent academically in the 11-19 age range.

Asked for their favourite type of music, 39 per cent said rock, 18 per cent R&B and 14 per cent pop. Six per cent said heavy metal and a third rated it in their top five genres.
So no, not 'many adolescent metalheads', but a few happen to be gifted, compared to the rest who listen to other types of music.

Also from the article:

The heavy metal fans in the study had lower self-esteem and more difficulties in family relationships and friendships.

So, if anything, one could hypothesize that gifted teenages that listen to heavy metal are more likely to have shitty self-esteem and quite possibly being perceived as asshats by family and friends, and listened to heavy metal as a way to 'cope' with the anger.

Just you wait until they start playing those tracks backwards....

Raw tunage...

[RyanFenton]

I was the same way in the 90's. I found the wave of impressive metal tunes rather impressive, almost nourishing. The emotional content was almost meaningless - but the intricacy and drive behind the chords made up for the annoyance with the manipulative and occasionally insipid emotional content of the songs.

It's hard to find music that holds a lot of interesting 'content' per second of sound. Perhaps in a signal-to-noise ratio, where crooning voices or cheap noise effects, metal just held the greatest s

Rock, R&B, and Pop are all better than Heavy M

[blu3 b0y]

From TFA (emphasis mine):

The researchers surveyed 1,057 members of the National Academy for Gifted and Talented Youth - a body whose 120,000 student members are within the top five per cent academically in the 11-19 age range.

Asked for their favourite type of music, 39 per cent said rock, 18 per cent R&B and 14 per cent pop. Six per cent said heavy metal and a third rated it in their top five genres.

The heavy metal fans in the study had lower self-esteem and more difficulties in family relationship

Re:

[hypermanng]

"Alternately, if your kids likes rock, they are 6.6 times more likely to be a genius"

I'm sure you have no difficulty figuring out how this statement is wrong.

Damn kids

[localroger]

In my day, we made do Elton John and DEVO. And we LIKED it.

Re:Damn kids

[Eddi3]

You had musicians. Luxury!

In my day, there was just a village idiot guy banging two rocks together.

Damn kids!

Re:Damn kids

[Mr. Roadkill]

In my day, there was just a village idiot guy banging two rocks together.

The village idiot and a couple of rocks? Luxury!

In my day we had Yoko Ono, five cats, a chainsaw, and tube of K-Y Jelly.

possible explanation

[fred fleenblat]

I suppose some of it might be that gifted children could have a degree of asperger's syndrome and aren't as able to relate to the oh-baby-baby emotive style of typical pop music.

Re:possible explanation

[644bd346996]

I think it is more that gifted children deal with a very different set of emotional challenges. For example, not many pop artists sing about the excruciating boredom of being stuck in a middle school when you are academically ready for college. Nor do you hear much about the angst of being eight years younger than the dumbest people you would consider peers. Also, gifted kids are usually far less interested in the dating scene during the teenage years. All of the really gifted kids I know have developed really weird or dangerous hobbies to cope with the relative monotony of suburban American life.

When you are dealing with profoundly gifted kids, it is a safe bet that any antisocial behavior is mostly intentional and the kid is fully aware of how other people interpret those actions. I've known at least one kid who could fool most any psychologist into thinking he had Asperger's, at first glance.

Or the simpler explanation...

[MisterCookie]

Maybe they just like the music? I'm a member of the International Baccalaureate program and few of my peers have similar tastes in music. I waste my life listening to video game soundtracks, a few other members like classical, one likes techno. And for every smart kid who listens to heavy metal, there's fifty moronic ones that do the same. Only six percent of intelligent students like it and they act like its a massive majority.

Re:

[Bralkein]

Right. I'm pretty sure preference in music is just a matter of taste (or lack thereof). People have been telling me that I'm clever for as long as I can remember, and I think metal is at best silly and at worst pathetic. My favourite band is Sonic Youth. However, at school I used to hang out with a bunch of other very intelligent people who were similarly ostracised for being good in class. Our group of friends spanned a wide range of musical tastes including classical, hip-hop/r&b, experimental, classi

Resist the Crowd Mentality

[MrSteveSD]

If you show keenness or interest in a subject at school, you are already likely to be treated as an outsider. You don't have to be a genius to be an outcast. I think the pressure to conform to the "hive mind" at school is the thing that really holds children back.

Actually...

[Petey_Alchemist]

...I just really, really dig dragons.

Pantera!

[Saint Stephen]

Go youtube Pantera - Walk. Now.

Or maybe watch Lemmy sing Ace of Spades on the Young Ones. Loser!

Bruce Dickenson's School for the Gifted

[imAck]

You've not experienced The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner until you've read it in the original Iron Maiden.

Gifted children aren't a monoculture.

[suv4x4]

This article basically makes no sense.

Gifted children: is there a single type of gifted children? Gifted in what? You can be very gifted in certain areas and suck in other areas.

Also, it's funny that the fellow Slashdot commenters which listen to heavy metal read this as "you listen to heavy metal, so this confirms you're gifted". I don't blame anyone for putting on his rose glasses though. It's only natural.

For the record, gifted children are not a monoculture. There are some gifted children who listen to heavy metal to deal with stress of being a teenager. Nice. There are also gifted children who don't listen to heavy metal, and heavy metal listeners that aren't gifted.

You're walking away from this article slightly less mentally gifted. Slashdot, you suck.

Re:

[gEvil (beta)]

There are also gifted children who don't listen to heavy metal, and heavy metal listeners that aren't gifted.

Agreed. Without access to the full study, this writeup doesn't really mean anything.

TFA: Asked for their favourite type of music, 39 per cent said rock, 18 per cent R&B and 14 per cent pop. Six per cent said heavy metal and a third rated it in their top five genres.

From the sounds of this, articles could easily have been written stating that "Gifted Children Find R&B Comforting" or "G

That's because it's not cool anymore.

[edunbar93]

I know for absolute certain that the kids in *my* highschool that listened to heavy metal were most certainly not the best and the brightest. But that was back when bands like Metallica and Megadeth were at the top of the music charts, and Jerry Falwell and Tipper Gore were trying to make a political career out of the genre.

I think that this article is more like "nerdy kids listen to music that isn't cool."

Academic ability?

[Jartan]

Did anyone else roll their eyes at academic ability? I admit Britain might be different but I can't say as I've ever seen anything that convinces me academic ability makes someone smart or that lack of it makes them dumb. In fact I've always considered excessive willingness to engage in a system that amounts to government funded daycare as a sign that the other person might lack intelligence.

*favourite genre*

[Average]

God, I'd be buggered to name a *favourite genre*. I'm curious if they got a list to pick from. I know I've had that problem when asked similar questions. Probably easier to say "none of these" than try to get into:

Singer-songrwriter Folk
Bluegrass esp. New Acoustic/Newgrass
Celtic (stronger toward Scottish or Newfoundland)
Blues, Polka, Jazz, Klezmer, old Country, slightly harder New Age (Jean Luc Ponty or Ralph Towner), Scandinavian (NorthSide records artists), Jam Bands, etc etc.

You know, the stuff that is categorized as "Other" and not even counted in such surveys. Mostly I'm sad that the "gifted" kids have such limited horizons that 80% answered "eh... rock, I guess".

Comparison to general statistics

[mapkinase]

The researchers surveyed 1,057 members of the National Academy for Gifted and Talented Youth - a body whose 120,000 student members are within the top five per cent academically in the 11-19 age range.

Asked for their favourite type of music, 39 per cent said rock, 18 per cent R&B and 14 per cent pop. Six per cent said heavy metal and a third rated it in their top five genres.

I guess one needs to compare this statistics to a result of the refrence group. Below is the excerpt from the poll results [usaweekend.com] done by "USA WEEKEND Magazine's Teens & Music survey, published last fall. Nearly 60,000 teens responded to our poll in the magazine, at our Web site and through this year's partner, MuchMusic USA".

If you had to choose just one type of music to listen to exclusively, which would it be?

Hip-hop/rap 27%
Pop 23%
Rock/punk 17%
Alternative 7%
Christian/gospel 6%
R&B 6%
Country 5%
Techno/house 4%
Jazz 1%
Other 4%

So make your own judgement.

About the author of the paper [nagty.ac.uk]:

Stuart Cadwallader BSc (First Class Honours) Psychology, University of Kent. I am currently studying for an MA in Educational Research methods.

Webpage is updated at least this year. So the author of the survey called "psychologist at the University of Warwick" in the Telegraph article does not have a master degree yet. Hmm...

Re:

[Debug0x2a]

The first step is admitting that you have a problem. The second step is admitting you never plan to get rid of said problem. Metal for life!

Re:

[user24]

simple: to protect their ears, rock musicians often wear earplugs while playing.
Evidently Metallica have been playing for so long that it's some time since they actually listened to their own music (as can be evidenced by a quick play of, say, S&M)

Re:

[rob1980]

Disagreeing with somebody doesn't necessarily mean they're dumb.

Re:So if heavy metal listeners are so smart....

[shaitand]

Metallica circa 90's is a different fan-base then Metallica circa 80's. The black album and everything thereafter fails to be Metal. The black album was still good, just not Metallica. Everything after the black album is simply shit.

Labels are bad news

[EmbeddedJanitor]

As soon as you label a kid as being gifted, you stop treating them as a kid. Poor behavior: "Oh, that's just gifted kids for you". Don't want to take out the trash: "He really shouldn't be wasting his talents". There seems to be a complete obsession with labelling people to get status or to excuse behavior. Worst is when the kids are told that they are gifted: they soon learn to use this as a manipulative tool: "I need to do $FUN_ACTIVITY to expand my experiences. $CHORE crushes me".

Most kids are gifted one way or another, some academically, some otherwise. Just most kids don't experience the environments that bring the best out of the kids.

My experience was just the opposite...

[AmazingRuss]

...when I got my 'gifted' label. It was all about "Why the HELL are you smoking dope and making strangled cat sounds with the guitar when you are flunking out of high school? You're GIFTED...it shoud be EASY for you! Now do your goddam homework!"

Re:My experience was just the opposite...

[arlo5724]

Same here, I certainly never got to use it as an excuse. I think I would have had my ass kicked if I had.

In my experience kids who use labels to manipulate their parents only do so because they are allowed to, the parents tend to be push-overs.

Re:

[644bd346996]

I think it is more the younger members of the slashdot crowd. The term "gifted" used to be used far more sparingly. These days, anybody who can ace a standardized test in spite of having bad teachers is labeled "gifted". It is reasonable that a larger proportion of slashdotters would qualify as "gifted" than in the population at large.

However, the proportion of slashdotters who qualify as "highly gifted" or better in the precise medical sense (ie having an IQ of at least 145) is still very small.

Gifted label used to control

[Paul Fernhout]

'Gifted Child Industry' Preys on Parents' Insecurities
http://www.alternet.org/story/42644/?comments=view &cID=259124&pID=259049 [alternet.org]

The "Gifted and Talented" Fraud
http://borntoexplore.org/unschool/gifted.htm [borntoexplore.org]
"The truth is that "gifted and talented" programs are fast-track indoctrination courses, not real academics."

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/15c.htm [johntaylorgatto.com]
"I could regale you with mountains of statistics to illustrate the damage schools cause. I could bring before your attention a line of case studies to illustrate the mutilation of specific individuals--even those who have been apparently privileged as its "gifted and talented." What would that prove? You've heard those stories, read these figures before until you went numb from the assault on common sense. School can't be that bad, you say. You survived, didn't you? Or did you? Review what you learned there. Has it made a crucial difference for good in your life? Don't answer. I know it hasn't. You surrendered twelve years of your life because you had no choice. You paid your dues, I paid mine. But who collected those dues?"

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/prologu e_print.html [johntaylorgatto.com]
"In 30 years of teaching kids rich and poor I almost never met a learning disabled child; hardly ever met a gifted and talented one either. Like all school categories, these are sacred myths, created by human imagination. They derive from questionable values we never examine because they preserve the temple of schooling."

"Old-fashioned dumbness used to be simple ignorance; now it is transformed from ignorance into permanent mathematical categories of relative stupidity like "gifted and talented," "mainstream," "special ed." Categories in which learning is rationed for the good of a system of order. Dumb people are no longer merely ignorant. Now they are indoctrinated, their minds conditioned with substantial doses of commercially prepared disinformation dispensed for tranquilizing purposes. Jacques Ellul, whose book Propaganda is a reflection on the phenomenon, warned us that prosperous children are more susceptible than others to the effects of schooling because they are promised more lifelong comfort and security for yielding wholly: Critical judgment disappears altogether, for in no way can there ever be collective critical judgment....The individual can no longer judge for himself because he inescapably relates his thoughts to the entire complex of values and prejudices established by propaganda. With regard to political situations, he is given ready-made value judgments invested with the power of the truth by...the word of experts."

Re:Gifted label used to control

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

These sound like the ravings of crazy ass libertarians.

"The truth is that "gifted and talented" programs are fast-track indoctrination courses, not real academics."

I've never been in a "GATE"/Gifted and Talented program, but later on in the academic career, most high school honors and Advanced Placement classes do offer advanced academics to students who are either willing to work hard or have the aptitude to finish the coursework.

"I could regale you with mountains of statistics to illustrate the damage schools cause. I could bring before your attention a line of case studies to illustrate the mutilation of specific individuals--even those who have been apparently privileged as its "gifted and talented." What would that prove? You've heard those stories, read these figures before until you went numb from the assault on common sense. School can't be that bad, you say. You survived, didn't you? Or did you? Review what you learned there. Has it made a crucial difference for good in your life? Don't answer. I know it hasn't. You surrendered twelve years of your life because you had no choice. You paid your dues, I paid mine. But who collected those dues?"

School isn't bad. I can answer "Has it made a crucial difference for good in your life" easily. First, how to code efficiently and cleanly in C++(I was learning on my own and it lead me to some... bad ...habits). Second, it made me appreciate things I never would have. Math, literature and sciences. Bad schooling is the problem.

Re:Gifted label used to control

[Aurisor]

I'm posting AC because I'm trying to be brutally honest, not go on an ego trip.

I was one of those kids who was labeled as "gifted" fairly early on in my education. My school didn't have a tag program until 6th grade due to budgetary constraints. I can't speak for every school in the country, but your descriptions don't match my experience and they largely seem the product of philosophical / political beliefs.

- My tag program was comprised entirely of real academics. In the 6th grade we did high school chemistry, some astronomy and physics, learned about stock trading, wrote research papers on 20th century history, read some difficult books, started a debate team, and so forth.
- My experience in high school people was like pretty much any experience with other people. One or two teachers were brilliant, most were just getting by, a few were misleading, and one was downright malicious. Sure, my school didn't seem to be able to provide for me very well, but it was due to a lack of resources, not any kind of malice or conspiracy.
- No matter what you want to believe, some people's brains just work faster than others. One of my best friends in high school was also in the tag program. I did my homework during class, never studied a night in my life, blew away standardized tests without preparing, and spent my nights hacking on linux. She was doing the same work, getting pretty much the same grades, but studying 6+ hours a night to keep it up. Some people couldn't have kept up if they studied 8 hours a night, 7 days a week.

That last link goes into a lot of conspiracy theory bullshit about how the idea of varying intelligence amongst people is an artificial concept, which it coyly blames on some great conspiracy between the Rockefellers, Dewey, Rousseau, blah blah blah. Frankly, a lot of the links you've posted seem politically or philosophically motivated.

Bottom line:
- Some people are smarter than others. These categories are not the product of propaganda, conspiracy, or a bunch of fat rich white men smoking cigars and drafting up a "system of order."
- Teachers get paid shit so many of them are there because the hours are good, or because the competition is not exactly fierce, or because they are genuinely benevolent, caring individuals. At the end of the day, though, I believe far more of them give a shit than most people believe; I suppose it's more comforting to think that you're dealing with a conspiracy or institutionalized malice than to confront the fact that most of what we encounter in life is the product of people doing the best they can under the circumstances.

...shit.

[Aurisor]

Pretend that was posted AC.

Re:

[Valdrax]

Teachers get paid shit so many of them are there because the hours are good, or because the competition is not exactly fierce, or because they are genuinely benevolent, caring individuals.

As the son of two teachers, I call B.S. on the hours bit. The hours for teaching are not that great. Did you think that machines grade papers for them? Did you think that they just wing it each day instead of having to submit detailed lesson plans to the administration? Just because all the kids go home doesn't mean t

Re:

[Paul Fernhout]

You've missed the point. All people are unique. There are also many types of intelligence:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_in telligences [wikipedia.org]
So this suggest you are correct to start making distinctions, like between IQ and EQ. One can go a lot further than that, according to Howard Gardner.

Even if some people are just smarter about everything (including ethics?), so what? How does that justify compulsory schooling of everyone? Perhaps "Gifted programs" skim off those who might be t

Re:Labels are bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh please! Can't we get an article about gifted children or aspergers or something like that without someone making a stupid lowest common denominator post like this? Yes. I'm sure the things you have stated in your post happen. It is stupid, it shouldn't happen, but it does. The problem is, it has nothing to do with the article. Do you really find it so hard to believe that there are smart kids who find life stressful because they don't fit in, so they listen to heavy metal music?

There really are people out there who think that kids who are called "gifted" are just spoiled brats, and that people with asperger syndrome are just shy and need to get out more. Simply because some spoiled brats get called gifted or because some nerds falsely claim to have aspergers. Posts like yours just add to that, without bringing anything useful. Just the same obvious "damn I'm such a rebel for pointing this out" obvious boilerplate post.

P.S. The title for your post is "Labels are bad news". Believe it or not, all words are labels. Do you think words are bad? Just because using a single word like "gifted" doesn't perfectly describe something as complex as a person? This whole anti-label thing is idiotic. Just speak in complete sentences and you fill find that words/labels work to convey a point of view, even if they don't carry enough meaning one at a time. Imagine that!

Re:Heavy metal as a detox?

[Khan]

For me, Heavy Metal is a way to sooth my anger. The angrier the music (NIN, SoAD, Slipknot, etc.) the quicker I come down from being pissed off. And hey, it's cheaper than therapy :-D

Re:Heavy metal as a detox?

[Jules Mercuri]

That's funny, I thought we were talking about heavy metal.

Not quite heavy metal...

[plasticsquirrel]

We should remember that today's kids aren't necessarily listening to Iron Maiden and early Metallica. Today when people mention "metal", kids just think of teen angst nu-metal bands like Slipknot and Mudvayne. Actual heavy metal is an entirely different subculture (and a much more varied and informed one, IMHO), and the music tends to be much more complex. One listen to a band such as Opeth or Emperor serves as a good demonstration of this point.

But the parent is right about heavy metal soothing anger. I can't manage to stay angry after a few minutes of listening to death metal. Ironically, it's often the most calming music I have.

Re:Not quite heavy metal...

[Biogenesis]

Interesting that you mentioned musical complexity. I find most forms of "popular" music really boring. The "metal" bands I listen to include the likes of Opeth, Therion, Blind Guardian, Nightwish etc, all of which write very interesting and technical (esp Blind Guardian) music.

It would be interesting if the study included classical pieces as well, as in studying how many gifted teenagers like both modern "complex" metal and "complex" classical. A close friend and I like both kinds, it would be nice to know we weren't the only ones who mix Ride The Lightning with Toccata and Fugue in D Minor.

Re:

[cexshun]

Another factor that may cause "gifted" individuals to listen to metal is the complexity and technicality. If you break down metal music, you'll find that it's much more "musical" then any modern bands. Bands such as Slayer, Amon Amarth, Nile, Testament, and Kreator play with such precision and technical perfection. Anyone who has taken music theory can easily see that this genre is superior to most modern pop. While the growling lyrics may be intimidating to many, there are metal bands out there that combin

Re:

[dgatwood]

I prefer NiMH, myself. Not as heavy, but a lot more reactive. :-)

Re:Heavy metal as a detox?

[tedgyz]

I prefer NiMH, myself. Not as heavy, but a lot more reactive. :-)

I prefer Au

Re:

[muffen]

This is interesting. Growing up, I was the only one that really liked metal music, none of my friends did.
They asked me how I could listen to it and not get stressed out or even how I could enjoy listening to it, and I always told them that it actually calms me and thats why I listen to it.

I never looked like a metalhead (well, except a jeansjacket I had in my early teens with metallica/sepultura/megadeth marks stiched all over it), but I pretty much only listened to metal.

Always thought I was weird

Re:Heavy metal as a detox?

[PresidentEnder]

I find that Rammstein is among the best "stress-relief" music available, because my German is not nearly so good as my English, so I am not distracted by the (sometimes kind of stupid) lyrics. Eisbrecher (essentially Rammstein without the synthesizer) is also nice.

I've also noticed that the Mozart Effect [wikipedia.org] can apply to certain non-mozart music, as well. It seems to be based on the idea of a 60 Hz beat (now I'm doubting that, since Wikipedia didn't mention it. Someone else back me up?), which most of Mozart's stuff provides. Rob Zombie's "Never Gonna Stop Me" features a baseline that follows this pretty exactly.

Re:Heavy metal as a detox?

[ozmanjusri]

I find that Rammstein is among the best "stress-relief" music available, because my German is not nearly so good as my English, so I am not distracted by the (sometimes kind of stupid) lyrics.

Whadda you mean stupid lyrics?

Don't need a friend, no cocaine.
Need neither doctor nor medicine.
Don't need a wife, just vaseline,
some nitroglycerin.
I need money for gasoline,
explosive like kerosine
with many octane and free from lead
a fuel like


Benzine

That's literary GOLD, man....

Re:Heavy metal as a detox?

[adolf]

Such a silly song, much is lost in the translation. Like all non-native languages, it takes a little interpretation on the part of the reader/listener -- there's a whole fuckton of German phrases which just don't work in English. And it's not their best work, to be sure, but Benzin is still an incredibly energetic and powerful song, able to cure the worst of moods with its music alone.

Like most great creations, Rammstein's best work is about drugs, death, joy, confusion, power, discovery, and/or fucking.
And it's not always silly, but often quite serious, even after being translated. Oftentimes, their music is downright ugly. Sometimes, it helps to know that things could always have been worse.

Courtesy of herzeleid.com [herzeleid.com]:

What does a man do
what does a man do
who can't tell the difference
between human and animal
what

He will go to his daughter
she is beautiful and young in years
and then, like a dog, he will
mate with his own flesh and blood

What do you do
What do you feel
What are you
but an
animal

What does the woman do
what does the woman do
who can't tell the difference
between animal and man

She dips the quill in his blood
and write herself a letter
lifeless lines to her childhood
when her father slept by her

What do you do
What do you feel
What are you
but an animal

Rammstein, Tier