Building Tomorrow's Soldier Today 230
FleaPlus writes "Wired reports on a glove developed by Stanford researchers Dennis Grahn and Craig Heller which combines a cooling system with a vacuum in order to chill blood vessels and drastically reduce fatigue. Besides the obvious military and athletics applications, the technology is also potentially useful for firefighters, stroke victims, and people with multiple sclerosis. The Wired article also describes a number of other human enhancement projects intended to advance battlefield technology. Examples include military exoskeletons, projects designed to increase cognition or decrease the need for sleep, and studies that may one day allow single soldiers to operate multiple aerial drones. Many of these were opposed by the President's Council on Bioethics."
Solider? (Score:3, Funny)
Yes, let's build it, so I can see what it looks like.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
On a state-of-matter scale of 1 to 10 (1 being gaseous, 10 being completely solid) this one goes up to 11.
Re:Solider? (Score:5, Informative)
The funny thing is, my original submission had a completely different headline, so the typo was added by the editors. Here's my original:
Cooling Vacuum Glove Fights Fatigue
Wired reports on a glove developed by Stanford researchers Dennis Grahn and Craig Heller which combines a cooling system with a vacuum in order to chill blood vessels and drastically reduce fatigue. Besides the obvious military and athletics applications, the technology is also potentially useful for firefighters, stroke victims, and people with multiple sclerosis. The Wired article also describes a number of other human enhancement projects, many of which were opposed by the President's Council on Bioethics.
Re:Solider? (Score:5, Interesting)
And why not? Human beings have made themselves to be more unhuman in every passing year. We have professional athletes whose exercise programs would be considered abnormal and pointless, (not including shaving eyebrows to achieve an iota of improvement in swim speed.) We have anti-aging pharmaceutical food and beverage offerings that cater to the Baby Boomers who felt entitled to look like 40-yos instead of 60. We have daily caffeine to boost our brains in the morning, no-dose to boost productivity in the evenings, Prozac to lift us when we're low, and even psychadelic drugs to boost creativity when we're dull. We design ergonomic chairs and keyboards while we sit in front of computers and in our cars for longer hours. We alter hormones and apply suntan lotions. We use AC's and heaters so that our habitats can include the most uncomfortable places on Earth. We give our children Baby Einstein so that they will be superkids and outcompete others when they grow up.
I'm not saying it's pointless for soldiers on the frontline to receive these booster-packs. They have a job to accomplish, and so do we. Maybe we're all trying to become Homo sapiens cyberneticus too. Maybe our environment self-selects.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
First off, I don't know of anyone that shaves their eyebrows for swimming. Moreso, shaving isn't necessarily for cutting drag, but to feel faster. Trust me, you feel much sleeker and faster in the water when you shave for a big meet. It's like how baseball players will put a donut on their bat while they're on deck. Confidence and
Started with fire. (Score:3, Insightful)
Great way to win the War on Terror on the Cheap (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Great way to win the War on Terror on the Cheap (Score:5, Interesting)
We have to explore or ethics as a culture very carefully before making leaps such as these, and fiction lets us do that.
Now to get more people to read worthwhile books...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't see what fiction has anything to do with the matter.
It was a forseeable consequence that soldiers dealing with combat violence would eventually become conditioned to using an armed response as their only response. The problem is nobody in the military was willing to study it and throw mone
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Neither was the poor treatment of Nam vets (like that chronicled in Ron Kovic's autobiography).
Those lessons are conveniently forgotten every few years by an Army establishment that considers grunts expendable, and lacks the balls to confront their incompetent civilian leadership when funding is inadequate. Deity forbid they'd actually do an old-fashioned walk-through inspection!
Google "David Hackworth" for the last senior officer we had with a b
Re: (Score:2)
This is an excellent example of why we need HISTORY!
I mean, common people, +5 informative?
Surely someone realizes that fiction authors are no more magically ethical than any other human being. What precisely qualifies their vision of the future as a valuable morale compass? Let's take our lessons from the way things have actually happened in the past, rather than just taking our favorite authors version of the futu
Re:Great way to win the War on Terror on the Cheap (Score:4, Insightful)
While it is true that fiction is simply someone else's perspective on history (in a way all human thought is just a perspective on history) being able to understand another persons perspective (or that there are other perspectives) is a very important skill that many people lack. Fiction is a way to see the world through someone else's eyes.
I admit there is a massive amount of crap out there in the category of fiction but to throw the good out with the bad is just foolish.
I don't have the presumption to think that I have an unbiased or complete view of human history but no one does. The best I can do is to try to share the experiences of others who have bee3n kind enough to write it all down
Re: (Score:2)
What does your rant have to do with the value of fiction?
And, by the way, there are several billion people on this earth who don't agree with you on a lot of this - what you consider 19th century is in fact very much 21st century. Good luck trying to convince them that egalitarianism is true and anal penetration is normal behavior.
Train them to work (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
A: Training.
Re: (Score:2)
As for the rest- just more assumption of facts not in evidence.
Your pigtails are shaking (Score:2)
let's build those soliders (Score:3, Funny)
While we are at it, let's build a better responsible useful
I believe there's a name for them (Score:3, Funny)
Terminators.
i want steel bones (Score:2)
From what I see on TV (Score:5, Insightful)
Modern war isnt about tanks and pitch battles between rival fleets of helicopter gunships. Modern warfare is fought in a city, in amongst a civilian population, who may or may not be hostile to US troops.
teaching some basic arabic for beginners to soldiers so they can understand what the locals are saying is going to save more lives, and lead to a better outcome, than any l33t new nano-engineered hi tech gubbins that will most likely fail the moment it gets exposed to heat and sand.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem, if there is one, is not that soldiers aren't physically up to the demands that will be made of them. The problem is with the politicians who send them unprepared on ill-advised and ill-defined (but profitable, for them) missions, often for dubious reasons that are unrelated to our national security.
If that could actually happen, I mean.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The idea of a smaller, hi-tech military is a very good one - for national defense, e.g. repelling an armed invasion of us or an ally. "But that kind of military is irrelevant for combatting terrorism!!" That's right, basically. The idea of stemming terrorism through massive invasions is fundamentally inval
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Modern war isnt about tanks and pitch battles between rival fleets of helicopter gunships. Modern warfare is fought in a city, in amongst a civilian population, who may or may not be hostile to US troops.
teaching some basic arabic for beginners to soldiers so they can understand what the locals are saying is going to save more lives, and lead to a better outcome, than any l33t new nano-engineered hi tech gubbins that will most like
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Did "Mission Accomplished" have anything to do with that?
Re:From what I see on TV (Score:4, Interesting)
Is your sig an attempt to mock John Kerry, or President Bush?
I happen to agree with Kerry's quote. We *do* need more troops in Iraq, if we have any intention of actually accomplishing anything positive there. Unfortunately, not only is this a rather unpopular stance, it's also true that a "surge" of only 21,000 or so more troops isn't going to do the job. What we need is to go back to the original recommendations of people like Gen. Eric Shinseki, and send an additional 500,000 or more troops. Not that this will ensure success, but it's the only chance we have to make this all work out, unless we're going to take the standpoint that the situation is unsalvageable, and try to work it out by paying reparations.
We may have had no moral authority to invade Iraq, but we sure as Hell have a moral responsibility now to clean up after our mistake, no matter the cost to the United States of America. The only real question is, do we even have the ability to do it anymore?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I'm glad someone finally asked! The point of the sig was to show that Democrats oppose whatever the President does, even if it something they have been screaming about for years. At the time I created that Sig, Kerry and everyone else on the left side of the aisle were screaming about Bush's plan for a troop surge in Iraq and Afghanistan, calling it a bad idea and coming up with plans to prevent it. Un
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The problems are there... (Score:2)
All of your facts are right, but I disagree with you analysis.
The trendlines alone in urban areas are news worthy, th
May be solving the wrong problem (Score:5, Interesting)
True. That may be solving the wrong problem.
The problem they're working on with this isn't one the US has. The "superhuman abilities" thing is useful when assaulting hard, heavily defended, hard to access targets. But the US military is very good at assaulting hard targets.
What the US military is lousy at is fighting guerrilla and insurgent movements. Those are about intelligence, not firepower. The opposition tries to avoid offering any hard targets. They don't fight pitched battles. It's classic Maoist doctrine: "The enemy advances, we retreat; the enemy camps, we harass; the enemy tires, we attack; the enemy retreats, we pursue." The US couldn't deal with that in Vietnam, and it can't deal with it in Iraq.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Er... (Score:4, Informative)
Not everyone is cut out to learn Arabic (which is why "Assalam alaikum", essentially "How are you doing?" in Arabic, turns into "Licka-me-salami". Admittedly, juvenile soldier humour) That's why we have translators and language specialists in the Army. The Army does have people who are skilled in Arabic, though not enough.
They do teach us basic Arabic phrases before we head out there. In fact, we carry a "language card" with us that has some common phrases.
To be brutally honest, it's not Arabic that will save us when we are there. It's Tactics and Procedures and it's technology. This is what we spent the bulk of our time on before we headed out there. In addition to some basic language and culture classes, to better understand the Iraqis. Who's going to survive longer in a firefight? A soldier who is well-trained on his weapon and whatever gadget he carries? Or a Soldier yelling out "Assalam Alaikum!" while bullets fly around him? Who's going to survive an IED? A soldier who has been trained how to react to such an event, or one who knows really good Arabic?
I honestly hate hearing these armchairs strategists who have absolutely no idea of the ground reality over there.
Do you honestly think that the Army doesn't field test any of these good gadgets? Do you think soldiers just blindly take their gadgets out to the field? If we have a gadget that's a piece of shit, we don't use it. We also have this thing called PMCS (Preventive Maintenance Checks and Services) where we check every piece of equipment before we head out and after we come back to base, for malfunctions and potential malfunctions. Your average Army Gadget is not like your pretty little iPod or Motorola Razr. It's pretty hardy and can take a pounding. Our GPS units are called PLGRS (Pluggers) and you beat the shit out of those and they still work. We have night-vision scopes and goggles that work extremely well in the heat and the sand.
The chilled glove sounds like a really cool idea, and even better if they can extend it to a body suit. Temperatures are insane over there. It's easily 100 to 110+ outside and when you have your body armour and other gear on, your temperature is probably 5-10 degrees more than that.
Modern warfare relies on better equipped soldiers in addition to language skills or cultural knowledge or whatever. So please, before you knock on these new ideas, consider what soldiers actually think.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, I guess it would suck. So tell us: is fatigue a significant problem in Iraq ?
In my experience "piece of shit" is pretty much the definition of army equipment. Of course that was Finnish army, so YMMV.
The big picture (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe not, but these are long-range plans. Are you really certain that the next few decades won't see the US needing to fight a high-intensity war?
The US military does seem to be paying the price in Iraq for focusing almost exclusively on fighting large-scale battles for the last fifty years (non-US and n
Re: (Score:2)
Just a guess.
Re:From what I see on TV (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Unless they're gay and someone notices. In which case they're out on their arabic_for('ass') while any investment in their skills is squandered.
Personally, I think it would just be cheaper to not fly metric tons of paper cash into the country and then misplace it.
Re: (Score:2)
Or, hey, if you can't swing that...there's always the ability to be able to understand that the people talking over there are planning the best way to hit your troops fourty-five seconds from now. That's got no tactical value at all, right?
We need both good tech that does the job AND soldiers who ca
probable, not practical (Score:2)
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness."
Whatever decent advancement is made, nothing can compare to raw experience. Some helpful things like the cooling blood would be nice or an enhanced exoskeleton, but outside of the specialized units these wouldn't be practical or cost effective.
Re: (Score:2)
20 years ago, people would have said the same thing about body armour. it's nonsense. these glove-contraptions seem relatively simple, and should be much cheaper than all the kevlar we've been tossing at our soldiers. not to mention the fact that the US mil has b
Pilot squadron of aerial drones (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Have YOU ever played a RTS? Those aircraft are firing every which way, missing all kinds of shots and throwing crap everywhere. They also have a tendency to make unnecessary turns when they could just be turning towards something and delivering the coup de gr
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is that, unlike an RTS game, actual drones (the type someone in the field might need to directly operate or rely upon, say for surveilance in a tactical setting) in actual combat-ish or other sensitive roles are working with a range of variables that wildly outnumbers the things that can happen in a g
The Glove (Score:3, Interesting)
Any suggestions on how to test this using common household items? Would a simple cooler of ice work?
Re: (Score:2)
Grahn watched sled dogs through an infrared camera--and saw snouts and ears lit up like headlamps, indicating that the dogs were shedding excess body heat. But the cameras showed no heat loss through the dogs' feet. Snow under their paws prevented those radiators from opening. Heller and Grahn have found in the lab that the temperature under w
The Glove as a solution to the war... (Score:2)
Re:The Glove - Based on an old technique (Score:2, Informative)
Possible civilian use (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, it reduces muscle fatigue by 'supercharging' the body's coolant system, also know as blood. You can do the same effect with much less efficiency by running cold water over the hands. We have been playing with the concept at work. I went from 15 pushups in 10 pushup sets to 55 pushups in 10 pushup sets with 2 minutes of hand cooling between sets. Yes, I am out of shape.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Possible *profitable* civilian use (Score:3, Interesting)
I heard of this some time ago, in the context of increasing stamina of athletes (and it wasn't a glove then, but a mini-chamber). But it occurred to me -- as someone who has trouble losing fat -- that this energy-remover might be worn for extended periods to remove a lot of calories from one's core, thus prompting the body to produce more heat, thus using more energy reserves, which is to say, fat.
Sell this on the open market as "the fat-burning pod" or something at $125 a pop and w
Is this a regular crappy Wired article or a user.. (Score:4, Funny)
too much sleep? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, it's called 'meth', and Nazi soldiers used it while conducting Blitzkrieg. Not a new development.
Re:too much sleep? (Score:5, Interesting)
My, that is a novel suggestion as to how the techniques of "Blitzkrieg" came into being. I suppose it should have been obvious me--it's well known that their soldiers are "fanatic" or "drug-crazed", while ours are "higly motivated".
Seriously, there's nothing new here. For example, benzedrine and other stimulants were routinely issued to U.S. Air Force pilots to keep them awake during WW II. In fact, the U.S. Air Force still issues amphetamines to its pilots and pressure them to take these "go pills". (For example, take a look at http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id= 1425252002 [scotsman.com] or http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/a pj/apj97/spr97/cornum.html [af.mil] or http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,57434,00. html [wired.com]here.
It might be interesting to ask whether the pilots who were involved in the disturbingly frequent "friendly fire" incidents during our recent ventures in Afghanistan and Iraq were flying high in more than one sense. But nobody will.
This is not what we need. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Why is it that it doesn't occur to you that if we make successful use of higher technology, an individual soldier can accomplish more, and thus we can hire less stupid people into the military because we have less of a need for warm bodies?
The military has
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's not news. But at the same time, there are plenty of intelligent hawks. Intelligence != Wisdom, and no, I didn't learn that from dungeons and dragons :P
The military has to bottom feed because their current strategy
Re: (Score:2)
Oh yeah, I know why: because while being educated, you lack intelligence.
You need both. (Score:2)
we call muscle fatigue comes from. It's because the muscles overheat more than anything else.
I'd buy this.
Better training won't do you a lick of good if you're fatigued.
Better training won't do you a lick of good if your body is overheated.
You need both things, really. Now, it remains to be seen if they're doing the training
as good as they ought to (I'm of mixed opinions- some things they could be doing better,
other
Re: (Score:2)
Presidential Support? (Score:2, Funny)
They should just ask Stephen Hawking (Score:2)
Not so sure (Score:5, Informative)
Besides the obvious military and athletics applications, the technology is also potentially useful for firefighters, stroke victims, and people with multiple sclerosis.
As a volunteer firefighter I have my doubts. Generally the ability to sense heat is a good thing fighting a fire. I remember the days before nomex hoods were common. Our ears functioned as heat detectors. People would think we were listening at the door but we were actually checking to see if it was hot. Now with nomex hoods you have to take your glove off or pull your jacket sleeve up to figure out if the room is hot or feel a door. I can tell you firefighters hate checking for hot doors with their hands. We have thermal cameras but not enough for every entry team. Besides, that's just one more piece of crap we have to carry. Not to mention we also have to carry it back out, sometimes also toting some fat ass (it's always the fat, ugly ones passing out, never thin, attractive people). We carry enough crap now.
Now wildland firefighters or approach teams, who spend longer amounts of time in hot areas, might find it useful...if they feel like packing it around, but not us truckies. Put the wet stuff on the hot stuff and go home.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The device doesn't prevent you from sensing heat. It cools your insides before it cools your outsides, because it works by cooling the blood that flows through your hand.
With that said, it's probably not going to be much use in a fire. It's going to be something that, for the forseeable future, has to be carried around by a vehicle (or the military's exoskeleton) because heat pumps require sig
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You're not far off. I'm getting one of those infrared thermometers with the laser sight for each of the entry teams. They're not that accurate over about +500 F, but if it's hotter than that you don't want to touch it anyway.
Besides, lasers in a smoky building are cool looking. :)
i RTFA (Score:2)
pretty amazing: the human body and modern processors have the same problem and same
Re: (Score:2)
Man, they must be confident in their stuff. When I worked with industrial robots we never let non-engineers within the safety fence during demos. One mistake could kill you with those things. Letting a reporter get to the edge of hypothermia... well, what if the Glove breaks just then?
TV-shows are right after all (Score:2)
You mean like Jake 2.0?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
No, you need editors with some sort of cognitive functions, an ability to proofread, and some semblance of pride in their work.
Re: (Score:2)
Next thing you know you will be asking for people to check to make certain their facts are correct. Get with the times!!!!
Witht he 24 hour news cycle we dont have time to worry about getting it right. We have to get it out now!
Its like Charles Karault said in his 1876 State of the Union address: "Incorrect news now is better than good news tomorrow".
Re: (Score:2)
Even that pansy, Jean Claude Van Dumbe, did the splits a bunch of times and beat Dolph's ass.
Harken to my words, young one. You will rue the day that you pick him for your happy fun ball team!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
My concern would be celluar damage at the point in which the cold blood enters the body. Cold being relative here. as you only want to lower the body temperature by a couple of degrees.
Re: (Score:2)
It's Eutectic Man.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Getting ready for the War on Werewolves, I see.
Re: (Score:2)
Simple solution... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The reason so many people criticize Bush is simple: most people think he's a bad president. By "most people" I mea
Re:Okay, this is a cheap shot (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
World Population: 6,525,170,264 [cia.gov]
I, personally, could give a rats hairy ass about abortion one way or the other. However, overpopulation is as big an issue as bioethics.
And before you say, "Well, what if your mother had aborted you?"
Well, then I wouldn't be here to care, now would I?
Damn kneejerk activists...
Re: (Score:2)
This anti-fetal-stem-cell junk is a bunch of BS. Firstly, no fetuses are destroyed simply to gather stem cells. The stem cells that _would_ be used come from fetuses that are going to be destroyed anyway. We're not looking at evil doctors running around downtown NYC in the middle of the night kidnapping pregnant women for harvesting here, folks.
Secondly, the whole "Fetal stem cell research hasn't produced anything worthwhile!" argument is also BS.
But he Does have a council... (Score:2)
They don't ask what is the right thing.. They ask, "What Would James Dobson Do?" (WWJDD).
Re: (Score:2)
(Just one big one)
ARP ARP ARP ARP ARP
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Those lines that I wrote are responses from the Berkeley script.
I've only been to Rocky twice (both times in Berkeley) but I have numerous friends who were on cast for years.
Nice try though. Next time you think someone doesn't get it, consider the possibility that you might not get it - because you are absolutely lost in this case.
Come on mods (Score:2)