India Brings Back Orbiting Satellite to Earth 210
bharatm writes "In a pathbreaking event heralding its arrival as a space power with capability to recover an orbiting satellite, India today successfully brought back a spacecraft to earth, giving a new impetus to the proposed manned mission to space in the next decade."
And yet (Score:1, Troll)
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:wq
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Re:And yet (Score:5, Funny)
-Eric
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You miss something (Score:2)
I believe that it should be:
"India launches them. The United States, Russia and China shoot them down. "
Re:You miss something (Score:4, Funny)
I certainly hope not.
This is the first step by India, hopefully, towards establishing the first Quickie Mart on the moon!!
Now all they need to do.... (Score:3, Funny)
(I'm sure that's coming.)
Re:Now all they need to do.... (Score:4, Insightful)
They just did...in true non-violent style, no less.
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Someone knowledgable to this topic told me that the difficulty of retrieving satellite this way is not on the sky, but on the ground (ocean).... because you have to get a worldwide coverage of stations in order to observe and control the re-entry. It is not a trival task both
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I misread that as "an &ATAT missile" and I was wondering how they'd control it with such crappy bandwidth...
Let me be the first to say... (Score:5, Funny)
Sweet (Score:1, Funny)
Regarding Outsourcing (Score:5, Insightful)
Ya know, I just had an epiphany on outsourcing to India...
We all know the popular press about issues regarding process, quality, et al. with Indian Outsourcing. However: I recall that once upon a time, Japanese manufacturing was the butt of many a joke until the early 1970s.
Just saying, I would suggest that any smirking in the direction of the Indian Outsourcing phenomenon is a little premature because I imagine it is inevitable that these issues will eventually be worked out.
Epiphany, huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
On another tangent, if you go back in time a little further, you'll learn tha
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Today Japanese manufacturing is top of the line, with high quality low cost components. Japanese cellphones are two generations more advanced than anything you can buy in the States.
In the 1970's japanese cars were a joke. by the 1990's japanese cars were the top selling vehicles.
It's the year 2007, indian products are considered a joke. What will those products be like in 10-20 years? it might take india longer than japan, but it is coming.
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BTW, what you call cheap labour (in terms of U.S or any western currency) is a high enough pay for middle-class Indians. With around 30,000 rupees, average Indian family can live a life equivalent to a life of a average US family with income of around 70K. And that estimate is a conservative one...most engineers I know get paid around 25,000-30,000 ru
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Wow, they pay them in money from the Legend of Zelda [wikipedia.org]? I thought all the money was in world of warcraft gold farming...
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Not retrieval (Score:5, Insightful)
Dan East
Serves that satellite right (Score:2, Interesting)
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Re:Serves that satellite right (Score:5, Informative)
Priorities (Score:3, Interesting)
I was in India last year; the poverty and malnutrition [wfp.org] in the outlying areas is simply heart-breaking. Worse than anywhere else that I've been. Call me old-fashioned, but before a gov't starts acting on all of their world-stage aspirations, shouldn't they feed their citizens?
I guess that one could make the case that India's space program is an investment in the future, but I wouldn't want to be the one to try to sell that to people who don't have enough food.
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
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Do you really think that the US government's interest in the space program in the 50's and 60's had anything to do with actually going to space? To a small extent it was a nice prestige project, but that was just a nice spin off from the real research. The difference between a 'rocket' and a 'missile' is nothing but a name. You will note that once they ha
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Re:Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
Secondly, India has a no first use policy, which Pakistan does not share (I am not sure if China has a no first use policy).
Given the region, I'd say it's better to have a deterrent than none.
Besides, if there were no deterrent, there would be more frequent skirmishes and the like which would cost more money in the long term. With this, folks are afraid of any serious incursions because it could escalate into something bigger. So, you save more lives, money and resources that may have been spent on war.
It's not a zero sum game.
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Re:Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but you are presuming a causal linkage between the two if you suggest this (i.e. Money for Space = No Money for Food for the Poor).
I'm certain that a few things are on the mind of those who advocate the Space Program for India:
In the end, I think India is reaching for the stars to make sure there is a way for those people to be fed.
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You are right, in the short-term.
My post is intended to point out that these actions are not predicated on short-term thinking. They are predicated on medium-term and long-term thinking.
I am certain that one of the ways India intends to life those people out of poverty is by improving the industrial and technological base of the nation as a whole. The thinking that goes into this means that these actions will provide India with better means to support its burgeoning population.
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The potential return on investment for India's space program is quite high. They're already making some inroads into the commercial launch market, and with further investment could become a major provider of low-cost commercial launch services. Modest investments today could lead to getting a good porti
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Assuming you have a boat...
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry, but that's silly. Money is not a "zero-sum game". You are thinking of "money" in a pure balance-sheet, consumption-level sense. Remember, money is a carrier of value, a representation. If the value of a thing increases ten-fold, do you still pay the same in money for it?
As an example, let's say that by India being able to launch its own satellites it is able to improve its communications grids and make great savings in the cash sense, without relying on Western launchpads and satellites.
Don't you think they're saving money in the long run? Don't you also suppose that by saving that money, they can re-invest those savings in programs that assist the poor?
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the interesting side effects of the cell phone explosion in rural India is that these farmers negotiate deals with big city wholesalers directly and skip one, two or sometimes even three levels of aggregators. Savvy farmers are cutting out the commissions to the middlemen by a large extent.
Of course weather prediction is another huge factor for Indian agriculture.
Re:Priorities (Score:4, Interesting)
Your argument about misplaced priorities, spending resources on space/nuclear program when millions of Indians are starving, has been around for a long long time. Even USA's NASA program came under the same criticism. It has its roots in the old socialistic ethos where equal distribution of poverty was desired more than unequal distribution of prosperity. Glad finally India is also coming around the view, that prosperity is better than poverty.
India has to become the leading edge on a few fields. No one country can dominate all fields, and definitely not India. It can even play cricket well or win an olympic medal. But if India finds a few niches where it can thrive in the global economy and bring home the moolah/bacon/bread/dough it will benefit all, including the poor who everyone is claiming to be sympathetic to. So you should see the investment in space program as an investment to find a tech niche in a growing field, the nuclear program as an investment against the invaders who have been pillaging India for centuries. India has suffered enough investing it all in butter and nothing in guns. In India v2.0 it will do well, I hope.
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Pot, kettle. Kettle, pot. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Pot, kettle. Kettle, pot. (Score:5, Insightful)
I do volunteer work in the inner-city and in rural Appalachia so I've seen first-hand the things that your link indicates, but the poverty in these places simply does not compare to what one will see in some of the places (India, Mexico, Ecuador, Bolivia, Pakistan) that I've been.
Yes, there is work to be done in the US but it's mostly treatment and/or education. Your post, however, glibly trivializes the dire circumstances that exist in many parts of the world where there simply is not enough food.While anyone can cook up stats about hunger, there is a simple test that can indicate the true level of hunger in an area: offer a half-eaten sandwich (or whatever) to someone in the street and see the reaction. In the inner-city area near us where I serve, that will at least get you cussed out, if not get the crap beaten out of you. However, we have had six-year-old children at an outdoor restaurant in Oaxaca, Mexico, gratefully eat the last bite of our salad. Similar results in the countries listed above.
The fact is that there is hunger in some instances in the US, but it is more often due to parents' mental illness or drug/alcohol use than to a general lack of food availability. Often there is enough money but it is squandered on other things. In many cases in rural Appalachia, we have gone to houses where the kids truly do not have enough to eat and yet the parents have Marlboros (not even generics) and/or satellite TV. There's not much that can be done when parents care more about smoking and television than feeding their kids. Also, have you never heard of the Hunger/Obesity Paradox [google.com]. Read up, becuase in America, the poorest kids are also the fattest.
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So is it your claim that India is one of those places that have this "true level of hunger", where "there simply isn't enough food"? On what basis do you make this claim?
You'll find that hunger in India has the usual causes: unscrupulous businessmen and government officials beholden to them. (Hmmm, sound familiar?)
And, to bring this back on topic, do you seriously believe that unless you've solved problem A you can't work on problem B? In other words, as long as there are starving children in India, Ind
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So is it your claim that India is one of those places that have this "true level of hunger", where "there simply isn't enough food"? On what basis do you make this claim?
Like I said, I've been there and I've seen it with my own eyes.
And, to bring this back on topic, do you seriously believe that unless you've solved problem A you can't work on problem B? In other words, as long as there are starving children in India, India can't work on, say, computers.
Actually, at this point, I'm not sure. There may be an overlap that I hadn't considered. I'm not so sure about going to the moon, but as someone else pointed out, satellites have benefits for food production (weather predictions, etc). I wonder if it can be quantified.
In all fairness, I could be reacting more out of emotion and despair than straight logic. It is really a horrible thing to see so many people in so much need and realize t
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Umm, the biggest problem in India is not production but storage and distribution.
And oh, these satellite thingys have helped improve agriculture by weather forecasting, geological and geographical surveys, communications etc. Amongst other things, such as education, industrialization, early weather warning systems and the like.
But hey, you go ahead. In your total idiocy
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Umm, the biggest problem in India is not production but storage and distribution.
Umm, well then use the money to build infrastructure.
And oh, these satellite thingys have helped improve agriculture by weather forecasting, geological and geographical surveys, communications etc. Amongst other things, such as education, industrialization, early weather warning systems and the like.
Good point. Seriously, I hadn't really considered that. I wonder if going to the moon helps too.
But hey, you go ahead. In your total idiocy and lack of vision, sit there mocking at technological achievements which are the crux for the foundation and development of any society.
Way to go, Strawman! I never mocked technological achievements. Not once.
What sheer stupidity. Denying a man his dream is the worst kind of sin one could commit.
Such an asinine statement, that it doesn't really need to be refuted...but what the heck. A man (or woman) doesn't have the right to fulfill his/her dream on public money. Public money is presumably for the public good. If it is his/her dream, let him come up with or raise th
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Infrastructure needs engineers, resources and a system that can produce such people.
> Good point. Seriously, I hadn't really considered that. I wonder if going to the moon helps too.
Oh, I do not know - maybe the fringe benefit of discovering all these other technologies along the way. Not to mention a technological know-how that brings business to launch satellites for other countries into space. Something that helps the economy, you know?
> Way
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Well, it already provided everyone a free, compulsory education [enotes.com], and you didn't bother to learn the difference between "it's" and "its". There is only so much the government can do, and beyond that, people have to help themselves.
In the United States, it's really damn hard to literally go hungry. I know this because
Re:Priorities (Score:4, Interesting)
I knew I'd see something like this as soon as I saw this article - and indeed, two comments in the top ten posts.
Why do people not make the same charitable "Think of the poor" suggestions for other things? Most notably military spending, but Governments spend all sorts of money on things other than helping poor people. No one complains then. Indeed, usually you get the opposite response - "Why should I have to pay for poor people?"
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Lack of vision? "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." - Oscar Wilde.
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Nope that'll rarely happen. Almost all governments act for their long term good rather than the good of their poorest citizens. The US, USSR, and China all have our "starving poor," but that hasn't stopped anyone of those countries from atleast attempting go into space. You could argue that the USSR's economic model reduced their capital so they just couldn't afford their space
Are they mutually exclusive? (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's see, how much food is wasted in building a satellite? Unless the rocket burns flour or vegetables, I can't see how not launching it would contribute to feeding anyone.
Or do you mean the money spent in the program should be used to buy food and give it to the needy? In that case, perhaps not launching one rocket would ease the hunger of a few million people. Today. But what about tomorrow? How do you propose to end
Re:Is it either/or? (Score:2)
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So, how about the USA sharing with Third World nations some of that science? Why should a poor country like India have to reinvent the wheel when so much food surplus is sitting in warehouses in the rich countries?
Let's face it, all that advanced agriculture has a *negative* return in investment. India doesn't have those hundreds of billions of dollars that Western Europe and the USA spend in farming subsidies. Not to ment
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So, how about the USA sharing with Third World nations some of that science? Why should a poor country like India have to reinvent the wheel when so much food surplus is sitting in warehouses in the rich countries?
I couldn't agree more.
Less developed countries do export cash crops. But rich farmers are the true benefactors of the "Green Revolution". Poor farmers cannot afford the patented seeds, tractors, fuel, and everything that's needed to produce the crops American science has developed.
To feed the starving, many small social actions are needed, such as better education, professional training, crop diversity using native plants which have evolved to be resistant to local pests, etc. This is an effort that does not compete and can perfectly well coexist with and profit from space science.
I agree. My wife and I have been very active for over ten years in efforts to bring this training and technology to third-world countries. I travel outside the US to teach certain aspects at least twice a year. More help is needed, especially from the type of technologically savvy people you find on /. Feel free to join us if you haven't already.
Hypocrite! (Score:3, Insightful)
So, if everything should be done to feed the hungry right now, without regard to the future, what are you doing in Slashdot? Sell your computer, give up your internet service, spend *EVERYTHING* to feed a starving Indian child!!
Why are you scoundrels unable to feed half your children
You seem to be under the impression that I'm an Indian. I'm not.
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's go back to 1499. European countries were launching voyages of exploration, seeking out new trade routes and discovering new countries. Guess who else was doing that? China. Until their government decided that they should fix their problems at home before spending excessive resources on maritime exploration.
So where is China today compared to Europe in terms of domestic poverty? If you're going to stay at home until your domestic problems are solved, you're going to stay at home forever.
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Re:Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
There is also something to be said for the importance of a nation having ambitions on the world stage. Let me use as an example Bangladesh, where my parents were born, and which I still visit on occasion. Bangladesh has no ambition as a nation. Bengalis have no national pride to speak of, aside from a generally provincial sense of moral superiority. Their poverty is something that doesn't just manifest itself in the lack of food on the table, but something that infects their very mindset. They accept the state of affairs in their country, the political corruption and the social instability, because they lack the pride to believe that they are entitled to something better. Of the various problems the country faces, this lack of pride is far worse than flooding or hunger or disease combined. India presents a very stark contrast. If you look at the villages of India, you'll see the same hunger and disease you see in the villages of Bangladesh. But Indians have a great pride in their country, and in its long history of civilization. Their ambition drives them to improve their economy, invest in their infrastructure, and preserve their democracy. It is this ambition that makes it likely that in another couple of generations, India won't have to choose between improving their country and feeding the hungry. There is no similar hope for Bangladesh.
Re:Priorities (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem with this argument is in India that experiment only cost maybe 30 cents per person. Even if the total cost was $500M there are so many people that when you spread the cost out it becomes affordable. Conversely if you took the money and used it to buy food it would work out to less than US$1 per poor person.
Giving money or food away does not address the root cause of poverty
The other thing is that the Indian government did not simply burn up the money. The spent it all. If a space experiment costs $500M then all of that $500 went to some scientific institution, university or the like. Al places that they need to support. Money spent on space is not spent in space it is spent on the ground and goes back into the economy
Re:Priorities (Score:4, Insightful)
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I guess that one could make the case that India's space program is an investment in the future, but I wouldn't want to be the one to try to sell that to people who don't have enough food.
You know, I was in the USA last year, and the po
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Re:Katrina Re:Priorities (Score:5, Interesting)
Yep. I think most people here are not going to argue that the Iraq war is worth the expense.
Each nation has its own priorities, and while you spout an altrustic question, the same was true in 1969 when UJS landed a man on moon.
The poverty in US at that time was high enough.
No, it wasn't. I think parent's argument isn't that you have to completely wipe out poverty, but that the level of poverty in India is so bad that a space program really is a waste of money. The poverty in the US in 1969 is still exponentially less than in modern-day India.
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Nomadic, for the love of all that is fluffy and adorable, will you please stop misusing the word "exponential"?
You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Exponential means doubling (or halving) in a constant period of time. Period. It does not mean "a lot".
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The middle class in the United States is only as large as it is because the numbers are twisted to include lower upper class and upper lower class indiv
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Shouldn't US have rebuilt New orleans and Missisippi devastated by Katrina before jumping into the Iraq War?
The US was in the Iraq war before Katrina hit.
The poverty in US at that time was high enough.
I do not think that word means what you think it means. The poverty line in India [wakeupcall.org] is a whopping 1 US dollar per day according to the world bank, and the government on India puts it at around a third of that. About 75% of India is under this level. In the US however, the poverty line [wikipedia.org] is $9800 per year
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No, because the Iraq War was started on March 30, 2003 [wikipedia.org], whereas Hurricane Katrina didn't make landfall until August 29, 2005 [wikipedia.org]. Despite all the money that the US "squanders" on high-tech stuff, the US still hasn't managed to invent a time machine.
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No, there are plenty of people who feel the same as you--they're called Republicans.
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Its very easy to provide simplistic solutions about what other countries should or shouldnt do without living there or seeing the complete picture
For a more complete picture, you need to realise that there are almost as many unemployed in India as there are people in the US [wakeupcall.org]. So yes, that money could have been put to better use. I could start many, many businesses, even industries, with $900 million.
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So the solution is not to create new jobs, technologies, and industries with a Space Program, but to simply dole out the money to the poor until there is no more left?
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So the solution is not to create new jobs, technologies, and industries with a Space Program, but to simply dole out the money to the poor until there is no more left?
The number of people that could be employed by a space program is dwarfed by the number of people who could be employed in, for example, car or mass transit manufacturing, especially if there was a focus on more ecologically friendly cars, a bonus for both India and the gargantuan market next door, Europe. Other industries might include wa
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It's not that easy. Mass Transit manufacturing would leave a company reliant upon the government for its funding, same as a Space Program. Car Manufacturing sounds like a good idea, but it's very difficult to compete with foreign imports. Something that Maruti Udyog [wikipedia.org], Hindustan Motors [wikipedia.org], and Bajaj Tempo [wikipedia.org] (now "Force Motors") can tell you.
What a
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It's not that easy. Mass Transit manufacturing would leave a company reliant upon the government for its funding, same as a Space Program. Car Manufacturing sounds like a good idea, but it's very difficult to compete with foreign imports. Something that Maruti Udyog, Hindustan Motors, and Bajaj Tempo (now "Force Motors") can tell you.
So you're telling me a space industry would be easier?
Those industrial and technology bases can then be used used to close the gap between the local capabilties and the
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There is no "space industry" in the form we're talking about. India is not building these craft to compete with an open marketplace (where they would be outright crushed), they are building them to provide their nation with technology that is otherwise restricted. In creating that technology, they are forced to develop a tech and industrial base that they did not previously have available. Creating that infrastructure allows their other industries to le
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In creating that technology, they are forced to develop a tech and industrial base that they did not previously have available.
Arguing the economic benefits of a space program in a country with 300 million unemployed, and 75% of the population living on under a dollar a day, is a bit mad. The Indian economy needs to apply a triage process and focus first on the neccessities. If they are good enough at those, they can sell their advances abroad, while benefiting their own economy and domestic social situ
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When people spend money, it's not like the money goes into a giant pit which they then light on fire. The money goes to scientists, lab technicians, programmers, janitors, and countless other employees directly or indirectly involved in the space program.
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You could start an entire industry with $900 million dollars? You don't say! Maybe that's why that is exactly what India is doing with it -- the space industry, to be precise.
Its a piss poor return on your investment, would be my point. A country like India needs to triage its economy, not pin flashy medals to its chest.
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I think you are being incredible arrogant.
Doesn't make me wrong...
Reentry Technologies (Score:2, Interesting)
An anonymous troll wrote (Feed your Children, IN) (Score:2, Insightful)
"Feed your children India!
(Score:0, Troll)
by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 22, @09:16AM (#17709874)
why dont these heartless hindus use some of their engineers to design sanitation systems, water purification plants, food preservation technologies etc? This sorry excuse of a nation has the world's largest concentration of hungry people without access to clean water or toilet facilities. Shame on them!"
He does have a point however. "The World's Largest Democracy" (tm)
India spends a lot of effort on deve
Re:An anonymous troll wrote (Feed your Children, I (Score:4, Insightful)
India spends a lot of effort on developing military capabilities. Feeding their people is obviously not a priority.
Again: see my first post [slashdot.org] on this.
It's well and good for us Westerners to wag our fingers at them, but we're not the ones sharing borders with their potentially hostile neighbors (Pakistan, China).
Uncomparable budgeting. (Score:3, Insightful)
Tossing a rocket into space with a vehicle built for re-entry would be a lot easier and cost a lot less than making sure everyone in a country containing 1.2 billion people will be fed properly.
Best thing (Score:5, Funny)
Safer on the ground (Score:1, Funny)
You think they're going to leave it out there for China to shoot it down?
It's like when you see someone practicing reverse parking on your neighbors car.
You briskly move yours into the garage.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washington dc/la-fg-satellite19jan19,0,2329821.story [latimes.com]
Outtasite Deals (Score:2)
Now, where will the quality ratings come from? A "Consumer Reports" or "JD Power" testing report for these services of varying cost and quality?
You mean ... (Score:1, Informative)
Moonraker? (Score:4, Funny)
Deceleration Techniques? (Score:2)
From the 2nd article:
I guess that's ONE way to do it. <grin>
Coast Guard? (Score:2)
Did the U.S. Coast Guard pick up this satellite or was it some sort of Indian Coast Guard? And India has a "Coast Guard?" That article seems really confusing. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if the government has sent the U.S. Coast Guard overseas... nothi
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"Sarang" ? (Score:2)
Skylab? (Score:2)
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Unless of course you want to be President and become so - which happened with a guy from an "untouchable" caste who obviously couldn't have done it without popular support. The attitute to women there isn't perfect either but they have also had a woman in charge of the nation. Any other misconceptions you want to talk about?