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Space

Golf in Space 251

Posted by CmdrTaco from the where's-the-orbiting-ball-boy-target dept.
deeptrace writes "Tentatively scheduled for a spacewalk this summer, a Russian cosmonaut will take his trusty six iron and a special weightless-friendly tee and put a golf ball into orbit from outside the International Space Station. The golf ball has an embedded transmitter so that it can be tracked as it orbits. It is expected to orbit for 3 to 4 years before burning up on re-entry. The golf shot is the result of promotional fees paid to the Russian space agency by a Canadian golf club manufacturer."
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Golf in Space More

Golf in Space

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  • Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dr. Zowie ( 109983 ) <slashdot@defores t . org> on Tuesday February 28, 2006 @10:53AM (#14816443)
    is another piece of slightly-too-small-to-track, large-enough-to-annihilite-your-windshield piece of 23,000 MPH space junk to worry about.

    • gah... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by everphilski ( 877346 )
      (1) how fast can you swing IN A FREAKING SPACESUIT?
      (2) the speed of the space junk will be the speed of the space station, +/- the speed of your swing (see (1))
      (3) there is a very thin atmosthere at low earth orbit deteriorating the orbit of anything there, further slowing the golf ball with time
      (4) due to the nature of the spin of the earth and the fact that you get a boost from it, all spacecraft are launched in the same direction.
      (5) therefore any collosion with the golfball at a later time will be a
      • It's true that the golf ball will be going around in something like the ISS orbit (as you point out, there's not much delta-vee in a golf swing) -- but not everyone launches into that orbital plane. Speed of impact for a different orbital plane goes something like 23,000 mph * sin(theta). So, er, I stand corrected: "...Nothing like a 5,000 mph side-window-annihilating golf ball..."

        It's also true that the golf ball, like other small space junk, will eventually re-enter. Will the transmitter still be worki
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • It will very unlikely stay well within the ISS's orbit. It will likely drift due to the initial trajectory. Sure the odds of a hit are low and it has a transmitter that might still be working but why should a satellite or manned object have to change orbit just to avoid some promotional stunt?

        By the way, not all satellites orbit in the same direction, many are in "polar" orbits, i.e. surveillance sats, Iridium sats, etc. A collision would not be low speed in these cases.

      • (5) therefore any collosion with the golfball at a later time will be at a velocity SLOWER than the swing, far slower than any other piece of space junk out there, and definitely not a threat. Not to mention there is a TRANSMITTER in there. They will see it coming and wave

        ISS orbits inclined at 56 deg. A satellite orbiting in polar or equatorial orbit will be hit at a relative cos(i - 56). That can be a lot, like ~8000mph. It is a pretty irresponsible act given that space debris is already a serious pro

      • I think they should try to swing it such that the empty space suit catches the golf ball. Or maybe they have planned it that way... this is the low-budget "repair mission" to fix the transmitter in the space suit?

    • RTFA much? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by JeanBaptiste ( 537955 )
      Not only does it contain a transmitter, but the article says it will burn up on re-entry in 3 to 4 years.

      The odds of this being a problem for 'space entrepreneurs' is probably comparable to me winning powerball within the same timeframe. Space is big. Really big.
      • Not only does it contain a transmitter, but the article says it will burn up on re-entry in 3 to 4 years.

        I don't personally feel comfortable making forecasts of orbital mechanics based on the acceleration vector of a human golf swing. It's not a particularly predictable energy input, and one good slice might put the golf ball into an slightly eccentric permanent orbit.

        Or not. I don't have an intuitive feel of the scale of the energies involved, but if the golf ball's projected orbit will last for years, I

        • I don't personally feel comfortable making forecasts of orbital mechanics based on the acceleration vector of a human golf swing. It's not a particularly predictable energy input, and one good slice might put the golf ball into an slightly eccentric permanent orbit.

          I doubt a golf ball can slice in a vacuum. Slicing is all about aerodynamics, and without air, there ain't much slice. And when the ball gets low enough that there is a little air to let it slice, it will just slow it down even more and make it

          • and without air

            That's just the problem: it's not without air. It's very sparse, but you still get a steady, light hypersonic drag. The ball will be trailing weak shocks around it as it moves.

            Of course, you don't get too much easier to model, in terms of laminar and turbulent flow, than a golf ball. Perhaps if it was closer to a perfect sphere it might be a bit easier yet, but this should be a fairly predictable flight once they get the initial tracking data.
          • You obviously haven't seen MY swing.
        • I don't personally feel comfortable making forecasts of orbital mechanics based on the acceleration vector of a human golf swing.

          According to a previous post, the ISS orbits the earth at a relative velocity of about 17k miles per hour. I don't know the speed that a golf ball typically travels at, but for the sake of argument, let's be generous and say it's something ridiculously high like 250 miles per hour. Even if the cosmonaut in question purposefully hit the golf ball as hard as he could perpendicular
        • "I don't have an intuitive feel of the scale of the energies involved"

          I do. Next to the velocity of the station, the additional velocity imparted to the ball by the golf club is not worth mentioning. The orbit degrading, and the ball burning up on reentry in 3-4 years is exactly the same projection as for the ISS itself in the absence of regular orbit-maintaining boosts.
      • The odds of this being a problem for 'space entrepreneurs' is probably comparable to me winning powerball within the same timeframe. Space is big. Really big.

        Really? Hmmm, I like those odds. I think I should like to watch this on TV and win the lottery.

        ***Me scurries out to buy powerball tickets and a bigger TV***
    • Dude, if your commute takes up up there enough to worry about that golf ball, then you really have some other issues to work out... or you have the coolest car ever. Want to car pool?
    • I'd worry less about the golf ball and more about the embarrassed cosmonaut who's trying to push the divot he just made back in to the ISS with the toe of his spacesuit before anyone notices.
  • It'll be like that Seinfeld episode [pkmeco.com] where the technician reaches deep into the innards of a downed satellite, only to pull out a golf ball with a tiny antenna.
  • This is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. We already spend a lot of time and effort tracking the junk that's floating around in orbit without putting stuff there intentionally.

    Getting hit by a golf ball travelling 27,734 km/h would REALLY suck.
    • If you're stationary at that altitude you should be more worried about falling back down than about the very slim chance of getting hit by a golf ball. If you're in orbit you'll be moving at roughly the same speed as the ball - the only way you could have a large difference in speed is if there is a large difference in eccentricity of your orbits, however I expect both you and the ball will be in roughly circular orbits (if you get hit during the short time before you circularise your orbit you're *very* u
      • I smell a basic assumption... Ever hear of a Polar orbit?
      • LDEF taught us a lot about impact damage from space junk, since it was up there for a long time, and was retrieved.

        "With a relative impact velocity of 10 km/s, a piece of aluminum debris which is ~0.7 mm in diameter can penetrate through a typical 2.5 mm thick aluminum satellite wall. During its 5.75 year exposure, LDEF saw one (1) impact of this size per 7 [square meters] of exposed surface area in the RAM direction. In addition to this, LDEF experienced ~1 impact [per square meter], on ram-exposed surface
    • First of all, thanks to NASA, we've recently cut down significantly on the space junk we're putting up there. Granted, they did this by grounding their crappy overpriced shuttle fleet--but still.

      And, hey, we owe the Russians a little slack. Without them to give U.S. astronauts a ride, the ISS would have to be abandoned.

      -Eric

  • I bet (Score:2)

    by Tx ( 96709 )
    I bet that ball's going to go a fairway.

    Sorry.

  • Oh please god yes (Score:5, Funny)

    by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Tuesday February 28, 2006 @10:59AM (#14816485) Homepage
    Please. Please send golf into space. As long as it's all golf, and a very long way away from me. A very very long way away from me. Where do I donate? This is a cause worthy of funding.

    Cheers,
    Ian

    • Are we the only 2 people who don't get golf?

      I don't get it at all. You pay a buttload of cash for the equipment, for bad clothing, and for the privilege to play on a manicured field. And you keep paying the latter, over and over again, to avoid sucking that badly.

      All this for "a good walk spoiled".

      Sorry, I have an MBA, and I still don't understand the fascination. I can increase positive cash flow by opening my front door and have an unspoiled good walk for free. And that reminds me..

      <RANT>

      And

      • I enjoy golf by buying clubs at Goodwill and other second-hand stores. I've probably spent maybe $50 on supplies in the 4+ years I've been playing. Add to that the $10 fee I pay whenever I feel like playing. It ends up being cheaper than some other hobbies I have. Yeah, I suck... badly. But its still fun.
      • I don't get it at all. You pay a buttload of cash for the equipment, for bad clothing, and for the privilege to play on a manicured field. And you keep paying the latter, over and over again, to avoid sucking that badly.

        All this for "a good walk spoiled".

        This is the reason why. [golftoday.co.uk] It's the money.

      • A-fucking-men. The notion that any competetive activity is a "sport" is a nonsense that ends with things like chess and curling being considered sports.

        I'm with Carlin on this one, there are only three sports. Football; baseball; and basketball. Everything else is either a game or an activity. Golf is definitely not a goddamned sport.

        Carlin's characterization of golf is also dead on: "It's like watching flies fuck."
        • there are only three sports. Football; baseball; and basketball. Everything else is either a game or an activity.
          I'd disagree with you on Baseball. I find it only slightly less boring than golf, at least at the major leagues. Watching a minor league game is still fun, because the players still care. And as for football, I assume George Carlin was talking about American football. *spits* Maybe half of the game is actually spent playing. The rest is abitrating rules.

          But then again, it's all a matter of op

        • Gotta disagree with baseball. Any sport you can play while actively drinking a beer is not a sport. Baseball, shuffleboard, golf, bowling, curling, and darts for example are not "sports".

          Replace baseball with ice hockey on Carlin's list and you've sold me.
  • ..at least its not a promotion by the caber-tossing [wikipedia.org] industry.
    • ..at least its not a promotion by the caber-tossing [wikipedia.org] industry.

      I'm not sure how much of an industry we're talking about.

      A caber is, after all, just a tree trunk. It's not like you need an 'official' caber from a specific manufacturer.

      Just think how far you could throw it in a low-G environment. But, then you'd need space kilts or the Scotsmen would all cry foul. =)

  • ...until someone's solar array is clobbered by one more little piece of pointless space junk.

    Still, just about anything that might get, say, your average golfer to remember (even for a moment, once a day) that we have stuff, that we put there orbiting around the planet... that's worth it. I wonder sometimes if the occasional golfer who found his way to the new course using the GPS-enabled nav system on his new Lexus is even aware that a bunch of orbiting hardware and thousands of people working on the gr
  • I can't imagine swinging a driver in a full blown space suit is going to be easy. I would be afraid that the ball is get launched at an unexpected angle which one would think could put it into an orbit that may conflict with something else that is already out there.

    -Rick
    • who says he's gonig to hit it correctly, anyways? If he hits it more or less 'down' towards the earth, it won't make the orbit as long. Also, he's not going to be imparting that much more velocity to the ball beyond the momentum already present by being with the space station.
  • Does "burning up in the atmosphere" count as a hazard?
  • If it lands in the Sahara, that'll cost him a one stroke penalty.
  • Maybe he'll break Alan Shepard's record for the longest drive ever. [bbc.co.uk]
  • Seriously, if you're going to post this stuff at least get your titles to look like the Weekly World News.
  • This might well be the most expensive slice in golf history.

  • In space nobody can here you play golf! (Score:3, Informative)

    by HaydnH ( 877214 ) on Tuesday February 28, 2006 @11:35AM (#14816816)
    ok, from TFA:

    "The ball is expected to remain in orbit for three to four years."

    "The ball is expected to travel up to 2.1 billion miles before it drops back into the atmosphere and burns up."

    TFA doesn't say if that distance is based on 3 or 4 years, so I'll work out both and give a max & min average velocity:

    Min time in space = 3 years = 1,096 days (2*365 + 1*366: leap year in 2008) = 26,304 hours
    Max time in space = 4 years = 1,461 days (3*365 + 1*366: leap year in 2008) = 35,064 hours

    2.1 billion miles / 26,304 hours = 79,835.77 mph
    2.1 billion miles / 35,064 hours = 59,890.49 mph

    So the average speed will be between 59,890.49 mph & 79,835.77 mph!! (or 96,384.16 kph & 128,482.90 kph)

    Considering the speed of sound (at sea level) is 761mph it's just as well in space nobody can here you play golf!

    Haydn.
    • Considering the ball will be in a roughly circular orbit at LEO, the average speed will be a little less than 8 km/sec or 28,800 km/h. Your estimate of roughly 27 km/sec - 36 km/sec seems much too high to come from the relatively low delta-v of someone hitting a golf ball from the space station. The orbit would end up being highly elliptical...how much energy will it take to cause a delta-v of 19-28 km/sec to a golf ball? I don't have my reference materials handy, but I'd guesstimate it's quite a bit mor

  • Tentatively scheduled for a spacewalk this summer, a Russian cosmonaut will take his trusty six iron and a special weightless-friendly tee and put a golf ball into orbit from outside the International Space Station.

    Is there any better example of the pettiness and utter pointlessness of the ISS? The program has been reduced to a carnival side show of paid stunts and celebrity guests. It won't be long until its hull is rented for advertising. I can imagine it eventually looking like a NASCAR racer. The p

    • Is there any better example of the pettiness and utter pointlessness of the ISS? The program has been reduced to a carnival side show of paid stunts and celebrity guests.

      To be honest I think this is exactly what it's going to take to see real human exploration of space. It's easy to see that they countries with the resources are willing to do little to make a real space program, we need commercial dollars invested and if this little stunt is going to show a profit and help the ISS along I'm all for it.
    • Uh, somebody's paying money to do something in space. Sounds good to me, the more the better. What would be wrong with advertising on the side of ISS? The Russians have raised money for their space program by advertisements on the side of rockets for years. Money for space has to come from somewhere - why not from private interests willing to throw it away on stuff like this, rather than out of your and my tax dollar?

      Yeah, let's do the science stuff too, sure, if there's really an interest. But have you eve
  • ...they really take this "free market" philosophy way too seriously ;-) hehehe it's all kind of ironic that the Russians are the guys who are funding their space program through space tourism, commercial tie-ups, etc, and the Americans are the ones who don't like the idea of private money in space? Who'd have thought it 20 years ago?
  • Why doesn't he use a driver?
  • It is expected to orbit for 3 to 4 years before burning up on re-entry.

    I can't hit a golf ball 30 feet. This is impressive. I would like to think that it would either burn up or move from the planet faster. I always felt that keeping something in orbit was a bit harder than basically hitting it with a stick.

  • The ball is expected to remain in orbit for three to four years.

    Um, this doesn't sound right at all. It will be lauched from the ISS, with a speed almost identical to that of the ISS, so it'll basically be in the ISS's orbit (at least at first), just like Suitsat [nasa.gov]. But Suitsat is expected to burn up in less than six weeks -- and the golf ball is expected to last thirty times as long?

    ISS loses about 2 KM of altitude per month [heavens-above.com] if it doesn't use it's engines to gain some altitude (it's in a rather low

    • Perhaps atmospheric drag is related to surface area.

      • Perhaps atmospheric drag is related to surface area.

        Of course atmospheric drag is related to surface area. Perhaps I just didn't go into enough detail on the square-cube law ...

        If you take an object and double it's size in each dimension, it's surface area increases by a factor of four, but it's mass increases by a factor of eight. (Assuming that density remains a constant, of course.) Since atmospheric drag is roughly related to the surface area, this means that the drag will also increase by a

        • Quite right ... and interestingly, golf balls are engineered to maximize the length of their flight, subject to PGA rules. Most likely, that engineering assumes "normal" atmospheric conditions, so I don't know whether the ball will in practice have extended flight in the relatively rarified conditions around the ISS. It might depend on the configuration of the radio antenna as well.

          Also of interest: PGA rules [pga.com] say, "... if you damage or cut your ball, you may change the ball after first asking your oppone

  • From the highest point of the ISS [wikipedia.org] orbit (354.2 km), a regulation size golf ball [wikipedia.org] (at least 42.67cm diameter and at most 45.93 grams), the orbit would decay in about 177 days, according to the program in this paper (and assuming no space weather): Satellite Orbital Decay Calculations [ips.gov.au].
    The inputs to that program are:
    0.04593 kg satellite mass
    0.00143 m^2 satellite (frontal) area
    354.2 km satellite orbit
    (no space weather)

    Even if the golf ball's effective area (well, the "frontal area", which is what we're concerned
  • Couldn't they find a sponsor for the ball?

    Maybe it's more than just a golf ball. Maybe it's some super secrete Russian spy satellite and not really a golf ball at all.
    --
    Q
  • I'm a little weak on orbital mechanics, but please see though my reasoning:
    • If you just let go of a golfball in space, it's going to, in the short run, stay put.
    • If you give it a very light push, it's going to orbit around the ISS, coming back to the launching point on each revolution.
    • If you slam it with a golf club, faster than escape velocity from the ISS, it's going to take off on an orbit around the Earth, again coming back to the same launch point at each revolution? Is this right?
  • KSR, Author of the ever-popular Red, Green, Blue Mars trilogy of novels as well as a host of other extra- and neo-terrestrial adventures had a good one in his novella collection Icehenge http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312866097/qid=1 1 41145898/sr=1-27/ref=sr_1_27/104-7802270-0079101?s =books&v=glance&n=283155 [amazon.com]

    I believe it's in this one that one of the side stories is about a "space golf" tournament in an astroid field that involves lobbing a small clump of rocket propelled debris at a "hole" astro
  • Astronaut Alan Shepard hit three drives on the moon on Feb 6, 1971 [bbc.co.uk] during his Apollo 14 lunar walk. (Remember when the US had a manned space program?)
  • As long as he doesn't accidentally take a divot out of the space station or slice it and put it thorugh a solar panel ..
  • Russian cosmonaut will take his trusty six iron ..

    sounds pretty much like

    American astronaut will take his trusty balalajka and play few of his favourite tunes

    ie - completely out of space.

    PS For those loonies who put this news bit together - 90% of Russians don't even *know* what the golf is.
  • Any satellite not inserted into orbit within a few degrees and a few hundred mph of it's intended trajectory is likely to burn up long before it's intended time.

    Since the golf ball has no propulsion ability itself, and they hauled 6 of them up there, are they going to simply wail off 6 shots and hope one actually goes into a reasonable orbit?

    One would assume that they are firing it behind the space station (ie, it will go dozens of mph slower than the space station) so it'll have a better chance of de
  • So after the ball burns up on re-entry: Does he have to declare the ball lost and take stroke and distance? - or - Does he get to declare the ball damaged and get to play his next as near as practical to the placed when the ball (would have?) come to rest? These are important questions for scientists (well, the golf playing ones at least)

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