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Biotech

New Way to Stimulate Brain to Release Antioxidants 98

Posted by samzenpus from the wired-reflexes-2 dept.
Neopallium writes "A joint research effort between researchers at the Burnham Institute for Medical Research in La Jolla, CA, and a team from Japan (Iwate University, Osaka City University, Gifu University, Iwate Medical University) has discovered a novel way to treat stroke and neurodegenerative disorders. This approach works by inducing nerve cells in the brain and the spine to release natural antioxidants that protect nerve cells from stress and free radicals that lead to neurodegenerative diseases."
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New Way to Stimulate Brain to Release Antioxidants More

New Way to Stimulate Brain to Release Antioxidants

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  • Very promising research - but is it just PR? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by filenavigator ( 944290 ) on Thursday January 12, 2006 @12:19AM (#14451797) Homepage
    The research even suggests that this therapy could help in the treatment of Lou Gehrig's, and Alzheimer's disease. This is some very interesting and promising stuff. Lets hope that this is not just some press release for a pharmaceutical company trying to push a drug they are working on.

  • Woo-hoo... (Score:5, Funny)

    by codeshack ( 753630 ) on Thursday January 12, 2006 @12:20AM (#14451804)
    ... pomegranite juice injections in my spine. Why don't they hook me up with a white wine IV and save themselves the trouble?

  • even if they can do 50% of the article claim (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 12, 2006 @12:20AM (#14451806)
    Stimulating the brain on its own would be a great achievement for todays couch potatoes.. let alone releasing anti oxidants.

    -Sj53
  • According to the article, they use NEPPs (NEurite outgrowth-Promoting Prostaglandins) to activate the pathways to release the stress-reducing antioxidants. That's like how R2D2 is frequently used to run the elevators while Luke and Han are running around the Death Star.

  • Not a Cure (Score:4, Informative)

    by Voltageaav ( 798022 ) on Thursday January 12, 2006 @12:23AM (#14451822) Homepage
    This won't cure anyone who already has it though. It's a preventative measure. It may get rid of these diseases in 30 years once it's been used widely, but it's not going to help anyone right now.

    • Re:Not a Cure (Score:1, Insightful)

      by drpimp ( 900837 )
      None the less it could be very good for those whom haven't acquired it yet. Let's be honest, even if you get cured for one disease, odds are you are going to get another to which a cure has not yet been discovered. So let's face it, there are more preventative medicines that there are cures. Preventative medicine is sometimes just as good as a cure.

    • Re:Not a Cure (Score:4, Interesting)

      by janek78 ( 861508 ) on Thursday January 12, 2006 @01:16AM (#14452012) Homepage
      Not necessarily. If you have an ischemic stroke, some of the tissue will be lost beyond saving and undergo necrosis. There will however be a much larger region, called "the penumbra" (shadow) that will be subjected to a certain degree of ischemic damage. Much of this region will be damaged not by the ischemia itself, but by oxidative stress at reperfusion when blood with oxygen and nutriets starts flowing back into the tissue.

      Much as been tried to limit this reperfusion damage, including calcium channel blockers (e.g. nimodipine) and different antioxidants, but to no great success. You could argue that enhancing your antioxidative capacity before the reperfusion damage appears could limit the extend of damage to your brain. I remain carefully optimistic.
      • Not to mention the fact that many of these diseases such as Alzheimers and Lou Gerhigs disease are slow and progressive, so that if you start showing early signs and are diagnosed, you still have time to take potentially "preventive" medicines to stop any further progression, even if you can't reverse what's already happened.

    • Re:Not a Cure (Score:3, Interesting)

      by nacturation ( 646836 )
      But do you really want it as a preventative measure? FTFA:

      "At normal concentrations, glutamate acts as a neurotransmitter that nerves use to communicate. However, at excessive levels glutamate is toxic, resulting in over stimulation of nerve cells, known as excitotoxicity, and causing excessive stress on the nerve cells eventually ending in cell death."

      So if you counteract this, your nerves communicate less. Sounds like a tradeoff between higher mental capacity resulting in increased likelihood of nerve d
      • What's your evidence that overstimulation of nerve cells = higher mental capacity? Considering that this overstimulation is occurring in stroke and Alzheimers victims, and their mental capacity (or at the very least their ability to make use of their mental capacity) ultimately plummets, I'd say that's just wild speculation.
        • Normally, glutamate is a neurotransmitter which allows for communication according to TFA. I'm speculating here that less glutamate means less communication (hence slower thinking) and that more glutamate means more communication (better thinking). Just like caffeine enhances mental focus and physical performance, but too much will kill you. As long as you don't have too much glutamate and cross the threshold to where your nerves suffer damage, wouldn't increased amounts lead to better mental performance
          • First, you're making an unproven leap in logic to compare less communication to slower thinking and more communication to better thinking. While it may *seem* like an obvious and logical conclusion, there are many things in the world that seem like they should logically be one way but in reality are the exact opposite. For example, while ritalin is a stimulant, it calms the behavior of people with ADHD. There is of course a logical and scientific explanation for this effect, but from a layman's perspective
            • While the extra communication may lead to better thinking, the extra stress and eventual cell death lead to worse thinking.

              The candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long? :)

              Ah well, it was an interesting thought while it lasted. Thanks for the explanation.
               

      • So if you counteract this, your nerves communicate less. Sounds like a tradeoff between higher mental capacity resulting in increased likelihood of nerve damage -vs- lower mental capacity but you get to use your brain longer.

        The article is about preventing the damage caused by glutamate, not changing its levels. Besides which, IIRC a big part of glutamate toxicity is caused by failure of the pumps that suck it away from neurons. A drug that kept those working would simply keep the brain working normally

    • TANSTAAFL! (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Maxmin ( 921568 )
      The body's closed-loop system requires that the ingredients for making the anti-oxidants be available in good quantity. Today's hospitals are not exactly outposts of healthy nutritious food, and regular "allopathic" doctors are not very knowledgeable about nutrition. Last time a relative was in the hospital (my mom), they were serving white bread, processed turkey loaf, and what had to be frozen vegetable bits - your basic CHON food, but devoid of the phytonutrients the fresh fruits and veggies we're told
      • Dear mod-gods, how on earth was my post flamebait? 50% insightful, 50% flamebait? No attacks on anybody? Please explain.

  • This can't be good. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Spazntwich ( 208070 ) on Thursday January 12, 2006 @12:24AM (#14451826)
    Perhaps for treating specialized diseases, but like most drugs, if you force your brain to do things it normally shouldn't, like release more of a certain compound, you'll run into production and resistance issues, eventually requiring more and more for the same effect until bad things happen.

    I remain skeptical.
    • It seems in this situation, such a complaint is jumping the gun a bit. First of all, this *is* talking about treating specialized diseases (as it says in the article, "stroke and neurodegenerative disorders". And in these cases, the brain is already "doing something it normally shouldn't." The drug is merely trying to restore it to a state of functioning normally.

      Second, while the possibility of resistance is always looming, a stroke or Alzheimer's patient may be willing to take that risk if it means even a

    • Re:This can't be good. (Score:1, Insightful)

      by avasol ( 904335 )
      Let me philosophize, for a second. Imagine that you had the choice between being physically crippled but mentally fit, or mentally broke versus physically ablebodied; what would you pick?

      I can say with some safety among numbers that most of us would choose the first. To keep your mind functioning is after all much closer to the real you. Therefore, any positive news on this front is, well, positive news. No need to be such a pessimist. :-)

      ---
      If Lucifer was God's best Angel before his fall, is it okay to be
    • I remain skeptical also. Forcing (or tricking) the body into having a specific chemical reaction could cause other reactions that may not be wanted. Then another drug would be needed to suppress that, and so on and so on. Which is good for drug profits, but not always good for the patient.

      What has gone by the wayside in the last 100 years are natural herbs and plants used for cures. Plants have been used for thousands of years around the world with good success.

      An example of a plant used to help the body he

  • Sounds familiar (Score:5, Informative)

    by snookumz ( 919796 ) on Thursday January 12, 2006 @12:26AM (#14451832)

    This sounds like protandim. Protandim was a nutritional supplement that was being touted as a life extension drug a while back. The idea was that the human body could never swallow enough anti-oxidants to make up for the fall off with age. Besides, acids in the stomach ruin most anyways. The researcher who made protandim got the idea of restimulating the bodies natural production of anti-oxidants. I believe they claimed a 400% increase in naturally produced anti-oxidant levels. There were quite a few scientific papers that showed beneficial effects to mice suffering from strokes. Unfortunately the company seems to have wavered on what their claims are. Over time, they stepped down from that less provable statement that it could extend lifespan. Still, I don't think anyone has refuted the positive effects. They just shouldn't have targeted the I want to live forever market.

    • Re:Sounds familiar (Score:2, Interesting)

      by weisen ( 461536 )
      "Protandim" does not exist, at all, in MEDLINE (www.pubmed.gov), which means that there is essentially zero peer reviewed medical research on the drug, at least under its brand name.

      I had actually never seen the error message before:

      > The following term was not found and ignored: protandim.

      This work presently under discussion, at least, seems to involve a published line of investigation.
    • I see a huge loophole in this thinking. Free radicals and reactive oxygen species, while bad in excess, are involved in numerous signaling pathways of the body and are enormously important in phenomena like immune activation. Massive supplementing of anti-oxidants may address the suspected negative role of oxidative stress in shortening telomeres , but raises tons of others. If you dose yourself with anti-oxidants and screw up the normal thresholds for oxidant-related signaling, who knows what myriad of
  • It would reverse the effects of years of smoking pot??

    • Re:I wonder if... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by GWSuperfan ( 939629 ) <crwilson@gwu.3.1415926edu minus pi> on Thursday January 12, 2006 @02:43AM (#14452223)
      More likely is that years of smoking pot would make this less necessary. The most current research indicates that cannabanoids (delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol being chief among them) stimulate processes in the brain that protect against both damage from chronic causes (i.e. Alzheimer's) and acute trauma. A Google search for "Alzheimer's" and "Marijuana" should yield some good starting points. And, pot has the added bonus of probably being much cheaper than any new drug or treatment that the pharmecutical companies are likely to come out with anytime soon. Just remember to fight terrorism and buy domestic.
      • Ahem, your ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
      • I recently (4ish months ago) started smoking pot (age 18 at the time). It took awhile to get the THC flowing, or maybe my technique right, I don't know. Either way, it took a few times before I got high. That worked just fine for awhile.
        Then, two months ago, I got REALLY high. I don't know why this experience was so much different, but it was, and it's been the same way all of two times I've smoked since then. The problem is that ever since that experience two months ago, I haven't felt the same. At all. Fo
        • Sounds like a couple of things are going on...

          1) you may have finally obtained some kind bud, whereas you may have initially been smoking grass clippings (or equivalent);

          2) you need to learn to manage your buzz -- getting rocked out of your mind may be entertaining every once in a while.

          Try a more conservative approach -- like having one or two glasses of wine versus swilling a fifth of whiskey.
        • Are you taking vitamin supplements? I've heard of this and most people chalk it up to a vitamin deficiency. You will be a little fuzzy during the day if you are a regular stoner, (you would be if you got drunk every day too). If you aren't sure of the permanence, lay off the weed entirely for a month or two (the time it takes for the cannabinoids to be completely metabolized and cleared from your system) and see if the condition improves. Of course, by that time you may be used to your present condition
          • Good advice. I've only touched the stuff twice since that experience, but I'm planning on laying off completely for awhile. I don't take any vitamins, and it's quite possible that it might relate to that -- I take awful care of myself (diet consisting mostly of pepsi and cafeteria trash). Maybe I'll look into supplements. What I'm interested in is the idea of it being a learned change. The experience was extremely intense and terrifying, so it is a possibility that I got kicked into a mild state of post-tra
            • Yeah, chill out for now. If you want to do it again, you'll know. In the meantime, a store-brand multivitamin is around $12 for a year's supply, so see if that helps any. When my diet is crappy, I perform crappy. Used to get by on junk food, but as I get older that just doesn't work anymore (25 now) - junk food including fast food and frozen/processed stuff. Whether it's the placebo effect or not, I seem to function much better/more consistently if I take a multivitamin every day.

      • Re:I wonder if... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by wytcld ( 179112 )
        Off topic, but reminds me of the recent research showing that those who smoke nothing but pot have lower lung cancer incidence than those who smoke nothing at all. Although the smoke does do some damage to the lungs, chemicals in it actually are protective - the opposite of the chemical effects from tobacco smoke.

        It would be appropriately weird if something that has added so much particularly to the musical culture of the last century has also been the preventer of both brain damage and lung cancer for many
  • So what you're saying is start injecting myself now just in case I was going to have a stroke in 30 years...
  • Yeah, sometimes I releive stress with "joint research" too.

  • Tampering (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Da3vid ( 926771 )
    You have to ask yourself, at what point is it time to just let it go? Is there a point to let it go? Maybe the point exists, maybe it doesn't, I expect its a relative outlook of moral perspective, but it seems that if there is a line somewhere, it can't be far away from where we are.

    -Da3vid-
    • You can sir, have my place in the line, if you so think. Me on the other hand, I do not care if it is wrong morally, ethically, or whatnot, I want to avoid crossing the line as long as possible.
      • No line whatsoever? What about legends about bathing in virgin's blood to maintain youth? If something like that even had a chance of working, if it was feasible, would that be acceptable? It seems clear to me now that a line exists somewhere. The survival instinct is not absolute.

        -Da3vid-
        • No line whatsoever? What about legends about bathing in virgin's blood to maintain youth? If something like that even had a chance of working, if it was feasible, would that be acceptable?

          Doesn't seem to stop people like Christoper Reeves from advocating stem cell research.

          • Doesn't seem to stop people like Christoper Reeves from advocating stem cell research.

            No. Death does that.

            Christopher Reeves is deader than a doornail that fell off a horse, broke its neck, became paralyzed from the neck down, and then died several years later from cardiac arrest after falling into a coma.
            • Christopher Reeves is deader than a doornail that fell off a horse...

              I'd say he is exactly as dead. What a doornail might be doing on a horse is another matter.

              BTW, s/Reeves/Reeve/. He was a remarkably courageous man.

              • Re:There is no line (Score:4, Insightful)

                by zippthorne ( 748122 ) on Thursday January 12, 2006 @03:35AM (#14452321) Journal
                Why is everyone that suffers some hardship described as "courageous?" Isn't it enough that they suffer the hardship without having to have some kind of character building personal revelation as a result? The next time you see a similar patient described in such a way, think about the question, "Does he have a will to live or a fear of death?"

                Does the answer to that question really matter?
                • Why is everyone that suffers some hardship described as "courageous?"

                  While I don't have have an answer to this rhetorical mini-rant, my impression of Mr. Reeve was that he was very courageous, indeed. I did hesitate a little about adding that bit, since it wasn't germain to the discussion, but I respected him a lot, and I didn't want to let it go just yukking on about doornails.

                  • Courageous he may have been, I have no real information to judge that by. I'm just a little bit disappointed by the fact that we seem to have to mention how brave people are that are suffering this that or the other. as if the disease itself somehow diminishes them as a person. Either that or i've been watching too many Quenton Tarrantino movies and the "edgy" dialogy style is starting to rub off.

                    Also, I don't think it's particular brave for famous people who have <insert tragic disease> to come ou
        • What about legends about bathing in virgin's blood to maintain youth?

          Gimme a break. If every Slashdotter contributed half a cc, you'd be drowning in the stuff.
    • I would expect this kind of talk about issues relating to sacrificing one life (or potential life) to save another, but not over just some new drug. Yes, it may seem at times that a person is suffering more than living, and that maybe in that state they would rather just let life take its course, but that doesn't mean we can't still strive for a future where that condition or disease can be combatted. It may not be now, but if we did everything for the now, then nothing would get done.

  • Igor! (Score:2, Funny)

    by Bananatree3 ( 872975 ) *
    ****BZzZzzztt!!*****

    mad dr: IGOR! what is that I smell?!? ****BZzZzzztt!!***** (fumes)

    Igor: Massstr!! Thaphts your attempt at stimulating neurological antioxidents!

    mad dr: You imbasol! I told you not to use electricity! I told you to use electrolytes!!. You nimwit!

    igor: but,...MASssssterr! I swwear you said electricity! ****BZzZzzztt!!*****

    mad dr: this is the last time I let you help me with my experiments!

    • As a failed mad scientist myself (we'd all be pretty well cooked if any mad scientist was successful) I just wish to state that it is impossible to find help that is... well... helpful

  • "excessive levels glutamate is toxic, resulting in over stimulation of nerve cells, known as excitotoxicity, and causing excessive stress on the nerve cells eventually ending in cell death"

    Who knew stress was bad for you, eh?

    • Who knew stress was bad for you, eh?

      I once had the pleasure of having Hans Selye, the "discoverer" of stress, for a teacher.

      It's interesting that while most people intuitively know that stress is bad for them most intuitively cannot identify stress when it happens to them.

      Winning the lottery, for instance, is highly stressful.

      KFG

  • Wildly out of context (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    There is a very big difference between discovering a new technique for activating a cells stress response and developing a novel therapy for humans. Time and time again, the media (slashdot included) takes scientific reports completely out of context. The authors tested their compounds in tissue cultures, nothing more.
  • Sounds interesting, although I'm more interested in what this type of approach can mean for anti-aging, which is also focused around combating cell degeneration and promoting regeneration. Maybe someone with more medical knowledge can clue me in?

  • Brain antioxidants (Score:5, Interesting)

    by possible ( 123857 ) on Thursday January 12, 2006 @01:53AM (#14452108)
    One really has to wait for the study to be published before making any judgements.
    However, there have been quite a few promising studies (in both rats and people) showing that antioxidants dramatically reduce the extent of damage to the brain in both diseases of the brain and traumatic brain injury.

    Some of the studies I have read indicate that it should be possible to dramatically boost levels of brain antioxidants simply by ingesting antioxidants that are capable of crossing the blood-brain barrier. Compounds such as alpha-lipoic acid (which is both fat- and water-soluble) and curcumin (a component of the popular curry spice turmeric) are cheap, safe, and very powerful antioxidants that have been studied.

    From the press release, it sounds like the methods used in the study are pretty invasive expensive. I would like to see more long-term research using widely available antioxidant supplements. Unfortunately, since most medical research is funded by drug companies these days, we aren't likely to see lots of grants going to scientists who want to study non-patentable things like turmeric or vitamin C.
  • Unfortunately, the brain is induced to that state using Oxygen.
    The Oxygen Channel.

  • A guaranteed way... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ...to stimulate the brain. Pr0n. Next problem, how to desensitize it.
  • This approach works by inducing nerve cells in the brain and the spine to release natural antioxidants that protect nerve cells from stress

    So technically it can be used to counter depression...?

  • Abstract (Score:2, Informative)

    by daigu ( 111684 )
    The abstract [pnas.org] is available and the whole article is available for purchase for those interested.
  • What kind of foods might, ""Activate the Keap1/Nrf2 Pathway for Neuroprotection by Electrophilic Phase II Inducers." Or what kind of food has phase II inducers? What are we humans not getting enough of in our diet that inhibits us from destroying enough glutamate? Or is there something IN our diet that simply produces too much? These are more relevant and interesting questions to me.

    rhY

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