New Evidence in Historical Cannibalism Debate 165
An anonymous reader writes "ScienceNOW is reporting that a team of scientists led by Geneticist Jaume Bertranpetit has called into question findings from an earlier study of human prion diseases. The first study, led by John Collinge of University College London, stated that the existence of a gene that codes for prions was a result of a "balancing act" that had kept it in the gene pool for so long. The balancing act was supposedly due to widespread cannibalistic practices in human history. The new report suggests that their results were skewed because of low frequency variations known as 'ascertainment bias.'"
ok... (Score:2, Funny)
Let's throw both research teams into the pot!
It's really the only way to test this theory.
Re:ok... (Score:1)
best Regards
domain [domainunion.de]
that's 'ascertainmanet' (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:that's 'ascertainmanet' (Score:1, Funny)
I think its much more likely that the right-wing media will pick this story up...
I mean, after all, it's an established fact that right-wingers eat their children.
With Freedom Fries.
While others in the media will do the opposite... (Score:1, Interesting)
I don't know if cannibalism was as widespread as has been claimed, but I do know that many people will continue to deny that it ever happened, simply because they don't like the ideas of it.
What next: we are descended from apes? When will tese outrageous and shameful claims ever cease?
Re:that's 'ascertainmanet' (Score:1)
Another /usr/{games,bin}/fortune wisdom (Score:5, Funny)
another (Score:3, Funny)
victims he intends to eat until he eats them.
-- Samuel Butler (1835-1902)
Re:Another /usr/{games,bin}/fortune wisdom (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Another /usr/{games,bin}/fortune wisdom (Score:2)
Re:Another /usr/{games,bin}/fortune wisdom (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Another /usr/{games,bin}/fortune wisdom (Score:2)
Re:Another /usr/{games,bin}/fortune wisdom (Score:2)
Zork (Score:5, Funny)
An innocent kid and budding geek, I tried feeding novel combinations of nouns and verbs to the primitive parser.
I tried "EAT LAMP"... got back "You can't eat the lamp." "EAT BREAD"... "That was delicious."... Etc.
I tried "EAT ME". I couldn't comprehend why my dad, who had just bought the game for me and was supervising over my shoulder, started laughing so hard.
Several years later I finally understood why he laughed even harder when the computer responded:
"Auto-cannibalism is not the answer."
You can mod this offtopic, but those 1983 game designers had a real sense of humor and subtly implemented it in 64KB.
Re:Zork (Score:5, Funny)
You see a lamp.
> LOVE LAMP
Do you really love the lamp, or are you just saying it because you saw it?
The grand prize text adventure winner (Score:2)
> Bite Tongue
Genius.
Re:Zork (Score:5, Interesting)
They didn't view themselves as having 64k to work with which in the C-64 case they had to share with 16k of roms and a display buffer, etc. They viewed themselves as simply paging data out of a much larger virtual machine. Even Zork 1 images weigh in between 94k and 123k IIRC. Some later Z-machine images were considerable larger.
This is also why all those silly little 'write your own Zork in BASIC' games that people published in Compute's Gazette, etc. never were as cool as Zork. They just didn't have the architecture to scale that well.
Yes, this is off-topic.
Re:Zork (Score:4, Funny)
That's pretty slow. Even by Commodore standards.
Re:Zork (Score:2)
There is no die here.
Fuck OFF!
There is no OFF here.
Re:Zork (Score:3, Insightful)
How touching. Karma is meaningless here, when you can be denied mod points forever simply because you criticized the editors.
Re:Zork (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah, I'm trolling within my own thread. What purpose would that serve? The moderators are on crack.
Re:Zork (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Zork (Score:1)
Re:Zork (mod points) (Score:2)
Now I get a set of points every week or two.
Re:Zork (mod points) (Score:2)
Re:Zork (Score:1)
Re:Zork (Score:2)
The other white meat (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't see why. Just because something is taboo now doesn't mean it always was. I wouldn't be bothered too much if I found out for certain that my ancestors were cannibals. It's not like that reflects poorly on me or my society. Every culture used to do some weird/nasty/mean things at some point.
Re:The other white meat (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The other white meat (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The other white meat (Score:5, Funny)
In related news Morgan Spurlock has decided to do a new documentary where he will eat nothing but MacDonalds employees for 30 days.
Re:The other white meat (Score:2)
Re:The other white meat (Score:1)
Re:The other white meat (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. We should only consider to be "taboo" those practices that are taboo across all cultures everywhere. Anything taboo that can be generalized is probably really worth avoiding, because if most every human is averse to it, it's likely to be bad for our survival. We should pay attention to our universal instincts.
There are no universal taboos. (Score:3, Interesting)
That is not to say that some taboos may not be rooted in some practical fact, but more often than not they are nonsense.
Re:The other white meat (Score:2)
Re:The other white meat (Score:2)
Re:The other white meat (Score:5, Insightful)
First of all, you use the term "taboo" in your proposed definition of taboo. That never makes for a helpful definition.
Second, your statement can either be taken to mean: if it's not forbidden in all cultures, then it's ok to do. Which means if you can find one culture that did not forbid, say, rape or murder or child molestation (which you probably could do), we should change our laws so as to stop discouraging these misunderstood "non-taboo" practices.
I doubt you mean anything that dumb, right? In which case you must be trying to distinguish between "taboo" and "immoral", where "taboo" means maladaptive and forbidden across cultures, and "immoral" is questionable but non-maladaptive behavior that should still be discouraged. Otherwise you've inadvertantly made yourself a NAMBLA advocate.
Re:The other white meat (Score:2)
First, you should take a class in logic.
Second, here's why you're wrong.
If a statement is true, it doesn't nessecarily follow that its inverse is true.
P -> Q, can not be logically transformed to mean ~P -> ~Q
Re:The other white meat (Score:2)
We should only consider to be "taboo" those practices that are taboo across all cultures everywhere.
Eating one's own I think would be generally regarded as a "bad" thing. That doesn't stop some in the animal kingdom from doing so.
Homosexuality also would seem to go against nature (yes, some species do it...so?) because if it became predominant the species would not survive in the long run.
We used to be nasssty (Score:2)
"Used to?"
Take just about any weird/nasty/mean practice that we discover our ancestors did, and you find out modern, "civilized" people have been doing similar stuff within recent memory. How about genocide in Rwanda, or massacres in China during WWII? Napalming populated jungle areas? Or body-piercing? Jonestown? At least every 10 years right up to the present day, there's documented evidence that humans are absolutely barbaric, alw
Re:The other white meat (Score:1, Informative)
Re:The other white meat (Score:2)
[licks lips]
I would think the heartburn alone would be sufficient cause to avoid this, forget the gross factor.... :-D
Hawaiians and the long pig (Score:2, Informative)
"Polynesian" is not a specific nationality, but a supranational cultural/ethnic group. As the name implies, it encompasses many widespread Pacific islands and their related languages and cultures. Hawaiians and Maoris are both subsets of the Polynesians. So are the original inhabitants of Tahiti, Samoa, Fiji, Easter Island, the Marquesas, Tonga, Niue, Tuvalu, and about 1
Re:The other white meat (Score:5, Interesting)
While every culture has things in the past it's done it's not proud of, cannibalism may not be as horrid as it sounds. If for example the society becomes sustainable it would make sence that something would need be done about it. Could be no more than self-sacrifice, some form of lottery, or simply the need to waste nothing. Or it could be one fell on a tribal hunt, the beast got away, and the wish of the fallen comrade was for the tribe to survive the winter. You might think it would be less cruel to for example eject individuals from your tribe for the sake of the whole, you would have to know the conditions of the outside enviroment and their perception of it to judge whether they were being cruel or kind. If we are talking a pre-copper age culture, I think I would rather die at home quickly than being left half eaten beign picked apart by the crows. If we are talking the copper/bronze ages expelsion might have been a kinder solution. At least a person could have some basic armor and a weapon, even a horse. It's silly to put things into moral context when no one needs morality when there isn't enough to eat.
Cannibalism is a total taboo today, we are wise enough to understand it's not a typicaly healthy habbit. But in it self it's neither evil or immoral. We probally get this belief from those who discovered this age old taboo was simply unhealthy and assumed some sky-god / earth-god was punishing us.
Re:The other white meat (Score:3, Interesting)
The two main advantages of metal tools are weight and durability.
Stone tools however can be made easily by a single person, while you more or less need 2 people in order to refine ore and melt metal and forge a metal tool using pre-historic technology (try to get the fire hot enough alone, it can be done probably, but it is going to be pretty difficult, and this assumes that the right
Re:The other white meat (Score:2)
I see where you are comming from, but you are not totally screwed with a broken blade. While it's true a single person would have a hard time finding the things needed to make copper or bronze, both stone and copper/bronze age people would have t
Re:The other white meat (Score:2)
Well, I understand your point of view, but generally spoken, those who depend less on advanced technology have a better chance to survive without it.
I agree that in both cases they could find the materials to make flint tools probably, but the stone age person would know a lot better what to do with it.
Re:The other white meat (Score:2)
Re:The other white meat (Score:2)
You can dream up all sorts of spin (and you have), but that doesn't make it true. The fact is that healthy people were killed, butchered, and eaten regularly. It is horrid, and you should stop with the pathetic rationalization.
I should stop with the pathetic rationalization... with all due respect AC you are the one who dreamed up "if healthy people were killed, butchered, and eaten regularl
Re:The other white meat (Score:2, Funny)
Yup, except mine, of course.
Re:The other white meat (Score:2, Interesting)
Cannibalism isn't weird/nasty/mean in many cultures. Many cultures have cannibalistic rituals for other reasons. Papuas eat the brain of their elders to keep their wisdom and experience as part of their heritage, just as an example. Others eat brains of defeated enemies to steal their warcraft. No taboo, obviously.
Re:The other white meat (Score:2)
You know, this is true (this particular form of cannibalism), but when thought about logically, it doesn't make sense. Why eat the brains of an enemy who, using all the skills and knowledge he had to try and defeat you, failed in that task? What would be the point? You have already proven yourself to be the superior in both mind and body, as he is the dead one, and you are the one who is alive, correct?
Furthermore, don't tell me that they couldn
Re:The other white meat (Score:2)
In 10,000 years, our descendants will probaly think the same about us. Going to church, monogamy, having kids, practicing capitalism, driving cars, discussing politics, and reading articles on slashdot will be seen as unthinkable barbarous acts by their generation.
Then again, if we happen to blow ourselves up any times soon with nuclear weapons between now and then, they might of course be eating each other over fire pits.
Obligatory... (Score:1, Funny)
The other missionary was incredulous, and said, "What's wrong with you? We're being boiled alive! They're going to eat us! What could possibly be funny at a time like this?"
The laughing missionary said, "I just peed in their soup!"
Re:Obligatory... (Score:2)
Two Catholic missionary priests were being cooked in oil by a cannibalistic tribe. The first priest says, "To think I gave up everything to live off the land and help the poor." The second priest replied, "Congratulations. You used to be a priest. Now you're a friar."
Re:Obligatory... (Score:2)
Cannibal Jr: "Mom, I haven't finished my Robinsons yet!".
I don't care (Score:3, Funny)
to be honest.. (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesnt really matter that much to me if my ancestors did a little canibalism, or even a lot for that matter. After all Im pretty sure that somewhere down the line some or perhaps even a lot of my ancestors engaged in equally terrible things to survive or perhaps even took part in them without "survival" really being an issue.
These thoughts dont exactly delight me.
However they dont really frighten me either.
To me all this article really says is that genetics is more complicated that we are currently able to understand and goes a lot deeper than just decoding a genome. One scientists sees some data and comes to a conclusion, another scientist looks at the same data a couple years later and reaches the opposite conclusion.
obligatory futurama quote (Score:5, Funny)
Fry: "My God! What if the secret ingredient
Leela: "No. There's already a soda like that. Soylent Cola."
Fry: "Oh. How is it?"
Leela: "It varies from person to person."
Yakov Smirnoff (Score:1, Funny)
In 15th century Guadaloupe, cannibals eat YOU!
Oh wait..
Okay but how skewed? (Score:4, Insightful)
But how much? Did we eat each other daily? Weekly? On special holidays? It can't have been to common anyway. If you eat more of a food source then is grown your run out. or put another way. Even if you farmed humans you would be hard put to serve baby more then once per year. Presuming of course that factory farming is really a recent invention.
Anyway wasn't cannabilism more ritual then food source? Eat the X of a vanguished enemy to gain his X. God forbid to think what the chinese would serve after the battle.
Oh well whatever the truth just don't accept an invitation to the donner party. Or board an airplane with an Uruguayan rugby team. Well unless you are feeling peckish.
Re:Okay but how skewed? (Score:1, Insightful)
Among the Fore in New Guinea, there was a disease called kuru, whose only vector seemed to be the eating of infected humans' brains. People (in that part of the world at least) had been eating each other so long and so consistently that a disease evolved to take advantage of it. For this kind of evolution, we must be talking a scale of hundreds of thousands (millions?) of years here.
Kuru is mentioned in the
Re:Okay but how skewed? (Score:2)
Feeding meat to herbivore is just plain asking for trouble.
Re:Okay but how skewed? (Score:2)
Prions arise by abnormal folding of normal proteins.
They auto-catalyze- - that is, presence of SOME prions will cause more to develop.
So, if you feed a species CNS tissue from the same species, be it cow, sheep, human, etc, it will increase the chances of prion disease development many-fold.
There's still some issue with how well it spreads to other species. I prefer not to eat mammalian brains, although pigs
National Geographic Article (Score:5, Informative)
Somewhere in the dusty recesses of the library stacks I came across writings that suggested many early northern european peoples practised cannibalism as was evidenced by the skulls of victims being halved to get at the brains. The National Geographic article suggests modern cannibals fed the brains to women and children as less desirable, but, for examples, grizziles feeding on migrating salmon will feed exclusivley on the brains once their initial hunger is sated.
My culinary perversion only extended to a one time feeding on beef tartare. I kinda liked it.
Re:National Geographic Article (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:National Geographic Article (Score:2)
Ah, yes, the good old Full English. Fry everything, although you can save some time by not frying the cup of tea.
I've been in some caffs where the tea apparently was fried, if the layer of scum and grease floating on top of the tea was anything to go by.
Re:National Geographic Article (Score:3, Informative)
In real authentic Mexican taquerias, you can get 100% beef brain tacos - they call it sesos.
Re:National Geographic Article (Score:2)
Brains are a delicacy in many cultures
Do you mean "valued"? Given the recent amount of zombie films I'd say that they are widely available and somewhat squishy for the initial bite. After that you kind of get used to the texture and the flinging of arms and stuff.
Woo-hoo! Research time!
Technology changing culture (Score:2)
First is the television, which spreads corporate US culture in which animal brains are not food. Though in the "old days" if it was food, you ate it even if it was stuff like haggis or brains or black pudding.
Second, due to the way corporate agriculture uses animal carcasses as an ingredient in livestock feed, you get an intentional feedback loop where prions can accumulate in livestock until they can cross species. Now it is simply unsafe
I once knew a girl who... (Score:5, Funny)
Once, twice, thrice she'd entreat me,
Eat me, she'd say, eat me, EAT ME!
And so I would; on the lass I'd dine.
Now, you'd think that a strapping young girl would taste,
Like beef, or lamb, or pork at least.
But I tell you, this hot young lass of mine,
always tasted like fish, each and every time.
Re:I once knew a girl who... (Score:2)
Re:I once knew a girl who... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I once knew a girl who... (Score:1, Funny)
Gives new meaning to (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Gives new meaning to (Score:2)
You knew it was coming: part deux (Score:5, Funny)
Along the same lines (Score:3, Funny)
Re:You knew it was coming: part deux (Score:2, Funny)
Re:You knew it was coming: part deux (Score:2, Funny)
It's good to know (Score:3, Interesting)
Nevertheless, perhaps we'll see an article in the future to see the conclusion after more comparisons between the two papers and further research. It's an interesting topic, to say the least.
HLDT (Score:2)
A wonderously entertaining movie where the topic 'out of the frying pan and into the fire' is once again explored. Joining us for comment will be the remaining members of the 1972 Peruvian Soccer Team, looking fit as ever, of course.
Desquamation (Score:1)
Re:Desquamation (Score:1)
Cannibals? (Score:2, Funny)
Obligatory Hufu mention (Score:2)
As seen on the Daily Show [comedycentral.com]
Cannibalism: because one has to eat? (Score:2, Interesting)
By the by sometime poeple ate people for because otherwise their diet would lack proteins and other important nutrients, ancient American tribes for instance (think Aztecs, Toltecs or Maya's)
Re:Cannibalism: because one has to eat? (Score:2)
The healthy human flesh alternative (Score:5, Funny)
There are no more cannibals (Score:3, Funny)
"Scientific" Versus Notions (Score:2, Informative)
This story points out, once again, how the media and other Mauraders - (definition from Mark Cuban) - mis-use the word "scientific".
More often than not - pronouncements in the staus quo media as well as the so-called alternative media - write stories about one thing or another - so that it appears to be "scientific" - but in fact is simply a - "notion"!
Scientific is simple - means proven by the "scienific method" -and the proof replicated by others using the "scientific method". More often than not - the
Obligatory Monty Python Ripoff (Score:3, Funny)
I am glad to hear that your readership disapprove of this article as strongly as I. As a loyal reader and paying subscriber, I abhor the implication that Slashdot.org is a haven for cannibalism.
It is well known that we now have the problem relatively under control, and that it is Kuro5hin.org who now suffer the largest casualties in this area.
And what do you think the Argylls ate in Aden. Arabs?
Yours etc.
Zontar T. Mindless (in a white wine sauce with shallots, mushrooms and garlic)
I am not surprised at all (Score:2, Interesting)
Cannibalism as a pretext for slavery (Score:4, Interesting)
Enslaving people with no souls cannot possibly be a sin, can it? Therefore there existed an incentive to find all sorts of evidence of cannibalism among tribes in distant lands.
Re:Cannibalism as a pretext for slavery (Score:2)
The obligatory Monkey Island reference (Score:3, Funny)
Obligatory plug (Score:3, Funny)
Incidentally.. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Incidentally.. (Score:2)