Europe Building Their Own GPS 536
An anonymous reader writes "BBC News is reporting that Europe is planning to build their own satellite-navigation network that will be backward and forward compatible. There's going to be 5 levels ranging from free (1m accuracy) to commercial (1cm accuracy)! Provision is also being made for a search and rescue mode where a signal can be sent to confirm that help is on the way. The system will supposedly even work with existing US network after upgrades to the network."
... and the reason is: (Score:5, Informative)
GPS is a military-run programme; its signals can be degraded or switched off. Yes, the service is free, but its continuity and quality come with no guarantees
Galileo will be a civil system. It will be run by a private consortium and will offer guaranteed levels of service
(from the article)
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:2, Insightful)
" Public regulated Encrypted; Continuous availability even in time of crisis; Government agencies will be main users "
So they can shut down the public free systems.. or degrade them "in times of crisis" or they wouldn't put this in the system.
I wonder who will decide this?
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:4, Informative)
GPS was also expensive, but it made the investment back several times over in benefits to US industry. That is expected for Galileo too, for instance by the commercial service. It's an investment.
Nope (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:2)
Freedom ain't free.
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:2, Informative)
For my money, I would rather accept that when the US gets all flustered about a possible terrorist attack (or G-d forbid, another happens), my GPS gets bad accuracy or is turned off for a little while.
[/quote]
That may be acceptable for you car-computer, but not for my countries cruise-missiles. I do not want any other country (including the US) to control them, or their navigation-systems.
Unfortunatly Galileo can still be controled by the US. Europe more or less was told to hand over the controls, or
Economic benefits far outweigh costs (Score:5, Informative)
First, 3-4 billion is chump change when it comes to government spending, and particularly so when it comes to international consortia spending. The economic value far outweighs the cost, by orders of magnitude.
Second, while you may find it merely inconvinient to have your GPS stop working, try telling that to a pilot (or 300 passengers) on a plane that is landing on a GPS precisions approch with weather at minimums and terrain all around, when the government decides to get into a tizzy and "disable" their approach. WAAS is intended to counteract that, but the point remains: they are having to deploy another multi-billion dollar system to offset the deliberate design issues and unreliability of the first multi-billion dollar system.
The Europeans are spending the money once, and getting a better, more reliable system they, instead of we, control. It makes all the sense in the world, and will probably allow their planes to land in near zero-zero conditions (unlike GPS+WAAS), and certainly with more precision than GPS (1 cm accuracy!).
Finally, fuck the US if we don't like it. We have no business, and no right, to dictate to the rest of the world what technology they may, or may not, deploy. As for our "reserving the right" to shoot down their satelites, I'm sure they (and the Russians, and the Chinese) reserve the "right" to nuke us back into the stoneage if they feel sufficiently threatened. That so-called "right" (talk about orwellian doublespeak!) to destroy something or someone suddenly becomes a lot less appealing when one is on the receiving end, doesn't it?
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:5, Informative)
One big benefit (as the article clearly stated; I can recommend reading it), is the much improved accuracy - 1m or so on the open, free channel, 1cm with error estimation for subscribed service, whereas 5-10m is normal for GPS.
A second benefit is that it works better in restricted environments, like beneath a forest canopy, or among high-rises. As anyone using GPS to navigate big cities know, accuracy can rapidly drop to 20 meters or worse, which is frankly no longer all that useful when you're trying to locate a particular adress. A third, associated benefit is that the system takes a lot shorter time to lock on when you start your receiver. Again, in a city, you may have to wait for upwards of five minutes, moving around all the while, before the receiver finds four satellites and figures out where you are.
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:2, Interesting)
This is a fix for a problems which doesn't exist.
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:2)
oh, and actually independence from usa _is_ a big deal today. this technology is beckoming too important.
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:3, Informative)
There is another big benefit however: Galileo might just be an economic success. GPS certainly is and competition mostly doesn't hurt, right?
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:2)
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:5, Informative)
Indeed, "high accuracy at the cm scale" has a specific meaning, and that is "accuracy at a scale of less than one meter". The summary writer is a dunce, as they usually are. I mean, come on! The antennas for these devices are bigger than 1 cm! You're not likely to have accuracy greater than the size of your antenna.
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:2)
If it can get you within 20 meters (or let's say even 50) and you still can't locate a particular address, I don't think that problem is with the GPS system.
An error of 50 meters or less should put you on the right street or really close to the intersection of the right street. If you're in a residential area, look a
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:3, Insightful)
The main problem that I see with GPS is the same with Galileo, or any other satellite system: it doesn't work when the sky is obscured. You really want line of sight to a satellite to communicate with it. That's why GPS has issue
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:3)
Dude, if the "USSA", attacks Europe, then Europe is going to need a lot more than their own GPS system.
They'll need a world-class army, for one thing. Which raises an interesting point: a world-class army has many different methods of getting accurate-enough positioning data. Thus, if Europe had a world-class army, their own GPS system would be a useful, but not mandatory,
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:3, Insightful)
And wouldn't American industry have the same access to the Galileo system as European industry?
If the first is true, than Galileo will have no impact on the current competition situation, unless the second is untrue, in which case it would be Europeans that is trying to get an exclusive competitive advantage, not the Americans. If the second is also true, then Galileo ends up having zero net effect on the curr
Nieve or deceptive? (Score:2, Insightful)
(To stop all US comments about why we Europeans don't need this) Galileo will be a civil system. It will be run by a private consortium and will offer guaranteed levels of service
Such statements are either naive or deceptive. I expect more from you sophisticates. What do you think China will do with 1 cm accuracy? Track Pandas? No, they will develop Galileo guided weapons and giving them further options in Taiwan, Kashmir, and even Siberia. All possible for a pitance of a few $100M. Galileo creates a s
Who's escalating this, again? (Score:2)
Um, actually, yes, that's one thing they do use GPS for now...
Your entire post begins from the premise that the US must continue to keep absolute control of GPS systems to defend itself. Back in the days of the Soviet Union/Empire, the same rationale was used for the iron curtain.
I do agree, the US will anticipate use of any rival system by hostiles. The air force already has policies to do with that, obviously, and to do with hypothetic
Re:Who's escalating this, again? (Score:2)
1)Pure national pride
2)Response to getting shut down over the DNS root server control issue
3)A stepping stone to getting their act together in terms of outer space technology and exploration
4)A backup plan in case some satellites of the US GPS system experiences problems, which could be technologically related or politically motivated: a diverse system is more robust.
5)Profits: A large amount of the investmen
Re:Who's escalating this, again? (Score:5, Insightful)
Similarly, this isn't some ham-handed reaction to the current administration. European attempts to counter and triangulate against American power date back to, well, the beginnings of American power. Even during the Cold War, European interests occassionally clashed with American interests. France's withdrawal from the NATO command structure in 1966, the Suez crisis, German attempts at appeasement vs the USSR, the "European Approach" to terrorism pre-9/11, conflicts over flyover rights during the Libyan attack, approaches to mid-east peace.... any of these sound familiar? In the 80's, American and Italian soldiers had an armed standoff on a NATO base. We stuck together and papered over our differences because of a larger enemy, but things haven't always been roses.
Post-Cold War, things have changed a bit. In the past, a larger common enemy (the USSR) kept the US and EU mostly at common purposes. Lacking that, ties began to fray. The Clinton Administration didn't initiate any major new foreign policy changes other than good relations for their own sake (for which the EU nations extracted diplomatic and trade concessions). Even then, however, a long-term goal of the franco-german alliance was to assemble a counterbalance to the US.
What's developing isn't emnity; it's just the kind of wary maneuvering that friendly nations normally practice. So of course the EU is rolling their own GPS system. And of course we'll invent countermeasures. This isn't because we hate them, or they hate us, or either of us expects to ever fight. This is the normal hedging of bets and accretion of power that nations practice. The structural issues of power are far more important than disputes of the moment.
Re:Naive or deceptive? (Score:3, Funny)
Of course! Having 1cm accuracy is oodles better than 20m accuracy for tactical nukes. They're such precision instruments donchaknow.
Re:Nieve or deceptive? (Score:2)
</sarcasm>
Back to the cold war? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, 9/11 was a tragic event, but even more tragic is what was done to the american ideals of freedom and democracy in the name of the "war on terror".
Now what has all this to do with Galileo vs. GPS you may ask. Well, GPS is under US-military control. ATM they're acting like they could throw a fit of paranoia anytime and switch off all civil GPS functionality. Sory, but that's the picture the US government is sending out into the world: self centered control freaks with tunnelvision that might jump anytime for reasons only they know.
Now you wouldn't trust someone like that with a system your life depends on, but that's exactly what we need: GPS- (or Galileo-) guided navigation systems for planes and ships, fully automated systems relying on accurate GPS-coordinates for positioning, you name it. If it isn't lives depending on these systems it's at least big money.
And no, noone trusts the US to provide a reliable GPS service. They might switch off the system without prior warning because of some perceived terrorist threat (thereby doing more damage worldwide than any terrorist could), they might do it to damage european economy or threaten to do it in some kind of blackmail-scheme, who knows.
And that's why we need Galileo.
Re:Nieve or deceptive? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:2)
Dream on, no major economy in the world, the US included, can decide to just "not do business" with another major economy. Both would come crashing down. I'll assume you're European, so let me ask, why do you get off so hard fantasizing about screwing the US? You can't do it, just as much as we can't do it to you. That's enough fairness out of me, though. Now let me point out your rampant unemployment, over 8% is
Re:... and the reason is: (Score:3, Interesting)
I am sure you have a demonstration at hand, so I shall wait for it. As a european, I have grown accustomed to people telling us that free trade was the solution for us, while taking severe protectionist measures from their own side, Japan and USA included. "Do what I say, not what I do !" ?
Both would come crashing down. I'll assume you're European, so let me ask, why do you get off so
Someone wants to be the only kid with cool toys (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Someone wants to be the only kid with cool toys (Score:3, Insightful)
I think it's a bit unfair to assume this is simply about having the coolest toys. From the article you pointed to:
The European delegates reportedly said they would not turn off or jam signals from their satellites, even if they were used in a war with the United States.
So even if Galileo were being used against the US, Europe has declared that they will not shut down the system. It shouldn't be too hard to understand that such an extreme position leav
Security (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Security (Score:3, Informative)
I think a major point of the commercial-grade service isn't the precision itself (which will more or less become available anyway), but the fact that paying for it will guarantee the service. As in, if an incident happens, it's the service operator's fault if the accuracy was degraded. Of course, the service comes with an error estimate; if the signal is degrading and the user (or their equipm
Re:Security (Score:2, Interesting)
For obvious reasons, I'm posting anonymously.
The keys are changed every forthnight, so it is _not_ easy to crack. And if you have a key, it'll give accurate datas
Re:Security (Score:3, Insightful)
very old news (Score:5, Interesting)
do people not remember the bush administration threatening to use anti-satellite weapons unless europe gave the US the power to interfere with it, jam the satellites and/or switch them off or to a lower resolution mode for certain areas of the globe which they were fighting in?
Re:very old news (Score:3, Informative)
Re:very old news (Score:3, Insightful)
With this in mind, if the EU puts up a GPS constellation that can't be jammed/shut off without simultaneously doing the same damage to the US' GPS constellation, and if the European GPS system is being used by an enemy during an active military campaign, then the US would shoot down
Re:very old news (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:very old news (Score:5, Informative)
Re:very old news (Score:2)
Recall that at the time, the Galileo system had been intentionally designed
Re:very old news (Score:5, Informative)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1718125.s
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1862779.s
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/jul2001/spac-j2
http://www.nti.org/e_research/e3_44a.html [nti.org]
http://www.ciaonet.org/olj/fa/fa_mayjune01a.html [ciaonet.org]
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/22/16382
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/
http://slashdot.org/articles/04/12/16/1324209.sht
and in particular : http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/01/12262
just what i found with a little effort....
Re:very old news (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:very old news (Score:3, Interesting)
A few hours and 6 radar-homing rockets later, they were gone.
Good... (Score:2, Informative)
The European counterpart is governed by an independant organization, so no government can shut it down without notice.
By the way, this isn't a pure European project, other countries such as China, Israel, Marocco and Saudi-Arabia joined the program too, others may join later.
Will it come with a backpacking guide? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Will it come with a backpacking guide? (Score:3, Informative)
If I am in an area with with Garmin I just select attractions and it brings up a list of all the nearby ones I can look for a name that looks interesting and select map and I am given directions and distance to it.
a VERY OLD dupe wtf? (Score:3, Interesting)
Seems reasonable enough (Score:5, Informative)
Knowing a location to plus-or-minus-10-meters might be fine for a guided missile, but for navigation it's pretty lousy; it couldn't tell which side of the road you were on, let alone whether you were in the right lane. With centimeter-level accuracy, though, you could practically make a car drive itself.
Michael
Re:Seems reasonable enough (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Seems reasonable enough (Score:4, Funny)
yeah, that's the point.
Anyone else worried about Vehicle Monitoring? (Score:4, Interesting)
See http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/15/2
I wonder if its worth building a GPS Spoofer like the one on http://gps.hackaday.com/entry/1234000843061178/ [hackaday.com]
DugUK
Re:Anyone else worried about Vehicle Monitoring? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Anyone else worried about Vehicle Monitoring? (Score:3, Informative)
Useful for Britain to Track its drivers per Mile (Score:5, Interesting)
There has been a lot of comment about how to pull that off with the limitations of the current GPS.
This new system will in my opinion be designed to have features to support this.
Should haves:
Double blind identification. Your receiver in your car will not be personally identifiable.
Works better in cities with tall buildings
Better accuracy
European control.
Nice to haves:
Downloadable content:
- Congestion alerts
- Emergency Warnings a la radio interupt
A government certified connection signal that must be displayed when they ARE tracking you.
Triangulation compensation with terrestrial mobile masts. If we're gonna have big brother, why not make it accurate?
My 2p.
Re:Useful for Britain to Track its drivers per Mil (Score:2)
I have always thought one of the downsides to having Big Brother was that if you monitor every single detail of everyone single life then you just end up not seeing anything important because it is physically impossible for a small group of person to keep track of it all.
And then you get to the problem of keeping track of the people keeping track to ensure they aren't doing anything wrong...
Of course if you record every bit of detail and say well X c
Good for Europe (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Good for Europe (Score:2, Funny)
Don't forget: GPS can equal targeting data (Score:2, Interesting)
Given that a GPS guided smart-bomb is only as accurate as the GPS signal, do the folks in Paris, France, or {name your own favorite freedom-allied European municipality and country} really want to give another foreign and presumably malignant military power the ability to bomb down to
Re:Don't forget: GPS can equal targeting data (Score:2)
Re:Don't forget: GPS can equal targeting data (Score:5, Insightful)
US: "Iraq, give up your WMD or our GPS guided weapons will hit everything".
Iraq: "Dude, We don't have any! You've had people here looking for 10 years! We'd gladly turn them over if we had them but we don't. PLEASE DON'T BOMB US!!!!
US: "Whatever! You have till the count of three! one..two..BAMMMMM!
Nope, your right nothing to worry about. The US would NEVER do anything like that
Re:Don't forget: GPS can equal targeting data (Score:2)
Re:Don't forget: GPS can equal targeting data (Score:4, Insightful)
kept up a pretense of having WMD for over ten years
If by "kept up pretense of having WMD" you mean he repeatedly stated he had gotten rid of all the WMD the US gave him [missouri.edu] and Iraq no longer has any WMD then you may have a point.
and it was Hussein's unwillingness to submit to the UN resolutions to open up his former WMD plants, etc. for inspection that triggered the invasion.
The best rebuttal to this has to be the UN Quarterly report on weapon inspections just before the invasion. Have a read [un.org]. Not saying Saddam never had some fun screwing with the inspectors, but if the threat of invasion was enough to get him to stop and all this was going forward so well, why invade?
Had the prior Iraqi regime complied without even the months long final warning process (let alone the ten plus years prior), no bombs, tanks, or other assorted objects that go boom would have ever been needed.
According to your own president, this isn't true. Even though they now know there was no WMD, the invasion was still needed because some day Saddam might have decided to maybe make more WMD.
Re:Don't forget: GPS can equal targeting data (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd say that in most Anglo-American legal jurisdictions, if you have the *intent* to inflict harm/kill someone, you can be charged with that as a crime and receive punishment.
Interesting point. Wouldn't you also say in most Anglo-American legal jurisdictions that there is a presumption of innocense until *proven* guilty? Some Iraqi dissitent who wants to be in power telling you rumors would be hersay and not admissable
Re:Don't forget: GPS can equal targeting data (Score:3, Insightful)
I wouldn't really have a problem with that, but it doesn't really seem a very good fit for what we are talking about to me. With all the inspections and "collateral damage" which comes with an invasion it seems the following would be more fitting.
The
Re:Don't forget: GPS can equal targeting data (Score:4, Insightful)
You mean when people like this [whitehouse.gov] say things like this [iranian.ws]?
Re:Don't forget: GPS can equal targeting data (Score:3, Funny)
I'd like to nominate France. Considering they supposedly issued French passports to leading Ba'ath Party members to escape from the Coalition Forces, I think they should be listed as an enemy regime and should suffer the consequences. Maybe it is time for the Sixth Republic, or a return to a constitutional monarchy under an Orleanist regime. Come to think of it, the Second French Empire seemed to behave itself with the Anglo-American world so perhaps we should find another Bon
Re:Don't forget: GPS can equal targeting data (Score:3, Insightful)
The main thing you'd get with the new system is greater precision on consumer devices.
In a GPS guided bomb, this would enable precision attacks. Typical consumer unit
Re:Don't forget: GPS can equal targeting data (Score:5, Insightful)
May be we should also shutdown internet, spy phone talks, and stop scientific research - since that research can be used for evil purposes.
good to have a backup (Score:2)
Real Reason this FAQ is up... (Score:3, Informative)
Anyways never really got the hub bub about this system, the US discontinued the use of SA in 2000, because aviation has become utterly dependent on GPS (the current FAA plan includes only supplements to GPS when the current VOR system is decommissioned). Also our birds have many of the same capabilities, I believe we have 12 in orbit currently that are of the new spec, we just don't have different scales for pay use and such.
Here's to hoping (Score:2, Funny)
Premium service (Score:2, Funny)
In an effort to protect its valuable property, the satellite consortium has already started sending take-down notices to parties who are using workarounds to share high-precision location information.
One recipient of these notices was the Greenwich Observatory, which was recently forced to replace its narrow brass strip on the prime meridian with a 2m-wide piece of ragged carpet in order to keep freeloaders from pir
Yeah? Well... (Score:2, Funny)
GPS vs Galileo (Score:4, Interesting)
This is really old news and extremely complex. The galileo/GPS compatibility was negotiated between the EU and the US State Department over a very long period. The EU deliberately picked an incompatible code to force concessions from the US before the EU consented and went with the better frequency.
This is a great example of technology driven politics.
--Keith
Russian System (Score:3, Interesting)
operational alternative to the US GPS system. Russia has had a
working system for years. There are shipping chipsets that do both
GPS and GLONASS.
http://www.glonass-center.ru/ [glonass-center.ru]
Europe should just slip the Russians a few Euro to keep it running
and get a contractual agreement on levels of service.
Hey! Stupid Americans! Stop complaining! (Score:3, Insightful)
Some points:
1. WAAS plus proper GPS equipment can be as good as Galileo, note that the article claims 10-35cms, not 1 cm accuracy. That's 6+ GPS satellites and WAAS levels of accuracy. Galileo satelites may start out better than GPS, but keep in mind that both constellations require (will require) constant replacement. GPS (and Galileo) will receive constant improvements, but higher accuracy is more a problem of physics (atmospheric interference) and computing power on your device (that 10 year old ARM chip in your handheld GPS can only do so much).
2. The U.S. government has sworn off Selective Avaliability. At the same time, the U.S. government has developed ability to do regional jaming of GPS. *shrug* This is a concern, but a marginal one; I doubt that they'll be turning off GPS signals over London, Paris, or New York anytime soon. Not without having grounded all the planes first.
Having said that:
Galileo is another "GPS-like" system that will be avaliable for FREE. The U.S. government will not have to spend a DIME on it, but we'll have TWICE as many positioning satellites avaliable for our use.
Uhh... Sweetness? Free-stuff? Be happy?
The real advantage will be dual-band receivers that are able to use the signals from both systems. In areas where you can only get 2-3 GPS satellites, you'll get 2-3 of each, which may (or may not) be enough to get you 10> or even 1> meter accuracy.
How, exactly, is this NOT in an American's interest?
And we don't have to pay for it?
Ummm... Groovey?
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth!
Redundant, complimentary systems that don't cost us anything more are a godsend. I'm thrilled that Europe is doing this, and everyone not in Europe should be thrilled as well.
The Europeans should be thrilled, but they are permitted a (very slight) grumble at the cost, similar to the grumbles we (Americans) made when the GPS system was developed. Europe is providing a service to the entire global by putting up this system.
Would people complain the same way if Europe (or the U.S.) developed a world-wide free WiFi system?
I think not.
Re:Prediction (Score:2, Interesting)
Ahh, a cloud chock-full of silver linings...
Seriously, would the US want to rely on a navigation service controlled by France, with the express ability to shut it off at any time for any reason they want? Why expect Europe to accept such a situation?
Re:Prediction (Score:3, Insightful)
Ofcourse, now the US has the control to disallow access in a warlike state with any country depending on the GPS tech for warfare or anything really. Which gives them ultimate control.
The US always has been nervous with anyone being able to dominate them or to get from under their control, even if such a move of the EU wouldn't be directly motivated by military purposes (the EU has been going away from an offensive army a long time ago and formed towards defensive and humanistic purposes), but maybe more by
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Prediction (Score:2, Insightful)
The US demanded, and got, a kill switch for it
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Informative)
There was no "kill switch" as you describe. The original design of Galileo had it operating in the exact same frequency range as GPS. This was an intentional (and arguably malicious) design decision that would have prevented the US from jamming Galileo without simultaneously jamming GPS. What was negotiated was for the European system's frequency to be moved slightly, such that the US or Europe could jam each others signals without interfering with their own.
As long as your starting assumption is that at some point a country might deem it necessary to degrade (note necessarily deny) full position fixing accruacy to a given region or theater of operations, this is actually a "play fair" agreement.
Re:Prediction (Score:3, Informative)
You forget that GPS has had recent changes making it near impossible to jam military receivers, while Galileo does not have these modification
Re:Prediction (Score:2)
Re:Prediction (Score:3, Interesting)
Galileo is still in development, and I suspect that those un-jammable modifications to GPS will find their way into Galileo's (currently technically superior) technology. The whole thing will prompt another arms race with more and more satellites of higher accuracy until the whole thing is an esentially unjammable mess.
Re:Prediction (Score:3, Interesting)
I know you Europeans have totally forgotten, but we're actually a non-inconsquential military ally of yours. It's called NATO. The US is hardly a third party to all of this.
-Erwos
Answer: European billions: 10^9 (Score:3, Informative)
Answer: European billions: 10^12 (Score:2, Informative)
Milliard (or the equivalent in the language used) is almost exclusively used for 10^9 and billion for 10^12.
Re:Answer: European billions: 10^9 (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Question: (Score:2)
Probably because the US perceived the old Galileo proposal as a threat and had it killed off years ago. [wired.com]
Re:Question: (Score:2)
Never understood the paranoia with GPS... (Score:3, Interesting)
If a terrorist wanted to find the locations of water facilities, nuclear power generating plants or other critical infrastructure they would need to find it by other means before GPS would be useful (if GPS would be useful at
Re:please (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, your post (and others) actually makes it very clear that americans are still scary people and that we should build our own positioning system.
Talk about overreaction (Score:3, Insightful)
Whoa, wait just a minute. Any student of modern European history would find this statement incredibly ironic. Pot, kettle, black. Get over your self-superior European selves.
News Flash: Americans do NOT want to flatten Europe with nuclear weapons. The funny thing here is, the OP brought it up as an example of an absurd idea. You did an excellent job of demonstrating how to overreact and take things ou
Re:please (Score:2, Insightful)
So wait - you do what you did in Iraq, and then you expect to have any credibility outside your country?
My Goodness, (Score:5, Insightful)
To begin with, the Galileo system is reputed to have better accuracy. Positional accuracy is, after all, the point of the whole system. So why wouldn't they do it. Furthermore, your reaction to them merely setting up a separate system not controlled by your own government seems to me to be good evidence that were the shoe on the other foot, you'd likely be extolling the virtues of a system not controlled by a foreign country with even more fervor.
As for unleashing our nuclear arsenal, I know you must be kidding. Mutually assured destruction, despite my admitted characterization of it as lunacy during the Cold War, works. France, Germany, England, Russia, etc. have nukes too my friend. All of that is, of course, an argument beyond the simple absurdity of your statement.
As for invading Europe, we can't even control a country with less land area than Texas. What makes you think we could successfully invade Europe and prevail?
And how would the U.S. shut down the internet? Cripple, sure. But I don't imagine there's a big red button in the White House that simply shuts down the internet. We may have developed the core of the internet; but I think that saying we control it is a bit ridiculous.
Finally, you can shake your finger and say "shame on you" all you like. We just did invade a country without provocation or necessity. I'm all for our presence in Afghanistan; but Iraq is a lark. It was the personal agenda of the President, misrepresented and sold to the larger public as a defense of our national security and freedom in general.
Really, take a pill. The Europeans are launching a satellite positioning network. It doesn't rate talk of nuclear war and ground invasions.
Re:please (Score:5, Insightful)
We could unleash our nuclear arsenal and flatten Europe.
Indeed you could. And 1 minute after your missiles left the grund. France, England and probably Russia would retaliate, flattening the USA with their nuclear arsenals.
We could withdraw all our trade and let Europe flounder on its own
I suppose you could but are you aware of the trade balance between the US and Europe? I suggest you look it up before embargoing.
We could even invade and take control of Europe
Oh dear. Considering that your entire army cant control two 3rd world countries with a total population of around 50 million, where the governments are your puppets, I seriously doubt you could "invade and control" 400+ million people with high tech weapons, well organized armies, and fully developed infrastructure.
While we could shut the internet off at any time
Indeed you could shut down your root servers. And the internet would probably stop working outside of national nets for all of 30 minutes before everone had repointed their DNS.
Re:instead of paying $4bn for their own GPS (Score:4, Insightful)
Thinking forward, what happens when the US decides to do to their GPS what they're trying to do to the Internet, i.e. dictate all possible uses and laws, from music downloading to what you're allowed to say on Wikipedia? What if the US disapproves of a war that the EU takes part in (in the same way that some EU nations disapproved of the Iraq war)? Would the US demand that the war stop or else they'd turn off their GPS system?
Were the situation reversed, would the US pay the EU for such a contract? Not a chance in hell.
Secondly, if you're going to use GPS for it's primary purpose (military), you want redundancy, not a single point of failure for all allied nations. If you'd be willing to pay another country for it, you'd be better off putting that money into another identical system.
And yet again, why should EU companies that require GPS to perform their business be paying a GPS tax to America when they could be paying that tax to the EU instead?