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Science

Italy To Build World's Longest Suspension Bridge 202

Posted by Zonk from the getting-places-in-a-hurry dept.
Rei writes "According to the BBC, Italy has just granted contracts to begin work on the world's longest suspension bridge, connecting the island of Sicily to the mainland. The nearly four kilometer-long bridge across the Messina Straits is to carry a double six-lane highway and four high-speed railway tracks. Its main span will be 3.3 kilometers long; this would over 1.5x the current record-holder, the 1991-meter Akashi-Kaikyo bridge."
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Italy To Build World's Longest Suspension Bridge More

Italy To Build World's Longest Suspension Bridge

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  • Here's a hint for anyone travelling on it. (Score:5, Funny)

    by nihilistcanada ( 698105 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @02:28AM (#13796080)
    If your name is Sonny, don't stop at the tollbooth.
  • It's impressive, but I think that the goal of bridges is to be as short as possible (although in this case, that's obviously the shortest length it can be).

    But, consider having a car accident or car trouble on the a bridge... it'll cause havoc. And the longer it is, the harder it will be to mediate such problems.

    In either case, it's still cool.

    • Re:Is that Prudent? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by deglr6328 ( 150198 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @02:48AM (#13796134)
      why would it cause "havoc"? Surely it will be heavily monitored live by camera and other methods. It's going to be a double six-lane highway!! There's no reason one of the lanes couldn't be reserved for emergency traffic. Also, it's only 2.5 miles long. Huge for a bridge but nothing special otherwise. You could therefore reach any point on the bridge in about a minute. I have to say I'm not seeing any show-stoppers here.

      • Re:Is that Prudent? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by night_it ( 852090 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @07:42AM (#13796645)
        Surely it will be heavily monitored live by camera and other methods. It's going to be a double six-lane highway!! There's no reason one of the lanes couldn't be reserved for emergency traffic. Also, it's only 2.5 miles long. Huge for a bridge but nothing special otherwise. You could therefore reach any point on the bridge in about a minute. I have to say I'm not seeing any show-stoppers here.

        Ok guy, you weren't born in Sicily..

      • Re:Is that Prudent? (Score:3, Informative)

        by Fred_A ( 10934 )
        In Italy, nobody ever uses the rightmost lane, so emergency traffic shouldn't have any problems moving about (unless they also refuse to use that lane for the same mysterious reason as the other drivers).

    • Re:Is that Prudent? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by bedroll ( 806612 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @02:54AM (#13796144) Journal
      There are plenty of bridges that are longer than that and they serve their purpose well. This is just the longest suspension bridge. I've personally used the 23-mile bridge-tunnel across the Chesapeake Bay [wikipedia.org]. Also consider the Lake Pontchartrain Causeway [wikipedia.org], it's 23 miles all above water. Neither of them are as wide as this bridge is proposed to be, either.

      • Re:Is that Prudent? (Score:3, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Also consider the Lake Pontchartrain Causeway, it's 23 miles all above water.

        You want to update this. Since end of August, it's 23 miles all below water...

      • Re:Is that Prudent? (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I can see the Chesapeak Bay Bridge tunnel from my bedroom and I can assure you accidents on that thing create miles of traffic.

        As an aside my most unusual experience was heading in to the tunnel and noticing I was headed *under* a US Navy submarine.

        • Re:Is that Prudent? (Score:3, Informative)

          by bedroll ( 806612 )
          I can see the Chesapeak Bay Bridge tunnel from my bedroom and I can assure you accidents on that thing create miles of traffic.

          I don't doubt that at all. Being two lanes in either direction it doesn't lend itself to allowing traffic to flow around them. Though, a bridge as wide as the one proposed, with the (comparatively) short distance proposed, shouldn't have as much of a problem.

          As an aside my most unusual experience was heading in to the tunnel and noticing I was headed *under* a US Navy submarine.

    • There are many bridges that are longer than this; for example, the Lake Ponchartrain causeway, for example, is (or was, if they haven't fixed it yet) 24 miles long! Moreover, it's only 2 lanes in each direction, so accidents clog it up much more easily.

      The only thing special about the Messina bridge is the span -- the long causeways in America cross shallow water, and therefore can be supported at much more frequent intervals.
    • And just consider having to resurface that beast. But the probable issues aside, it will make for some beautiful photo opportunities.
    • Is that any different from motorways in dense fog or snow blizzards? Impossible for helicopters to fly and tricky for emergency vehicles.
  • the nearly 4 km bridge is over 1.5x the 1.991 km japanese bridge?

    well, that's a logically accurate statement, but so is the statement that gw bush is 1.5x smarter than your average chimpanzee

    the truth is he is more like 2x as smart, and same with the bridges
  • I seem to remember they had electrical transmission lines across there, decades ago, pretty impressive.

  • Linux role - any? (Score:4, Funny)

    by bogaboga ( 793279 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @02:43AM (#13796120)
    This is to request slashdotters in Italy to track and tell us the role of Linux/OSS if any, in this project. If one knows how Linux can be of use, I'd welcome the information too. I wonder whether Linux/OSS can play a role.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Since you asked, I just found this page [topology.org]

      "A Linux bridge is more powerful than a pure hardware bridge because it can also filter and shape traffic"

      Just imagine how that could relieve congestion in the rush hour!

      • "A Linux bridge is more powerful than a pure hardware bridge because it can also filter and shape traffic"

        Can it block the (stsp)state trooper smokey protocol?
  • If only they made it a little longer, say, 42,000 km. And also up instead of sideways.

  • Cost vs Bay Bridge retrofit (Score:4, Interesting)

    by guacamole ( 24270 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @02:45AM (#13796128)
    I am slightly surprised that this project is expected to cost at most as much, if not less, than the extected cost of seismic retrofit for the relatively shorter San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge [wikipedia.org] (that project involves the construction of a completely new replacement for the eastern span of the bridge). How come? I suppose one reason is that the cost of everything in Bay Area is much much higher than in southern Italy. What about other factors? Is there something that makes the Italian design inherently cheaper to implement?

    • Re:Cost vs Bay Bridge retrofit (Score:4, Insightful)

      by dbIII ( 701233 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @03:24AM (#13796211)
      What about other factors? Is there something that makes the Italian design inherently cheaper to implement?
      Different constraints - the portion of the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge has to fit with the rest of it and the bridge will presumably be in use while construction is going on. The Italy-Sicily bridge just has to cover the distance, doesn't have to fit to a pre-existing design and doesn't have to be used until it's finished.

      In a lot of places you will see bridges built next to each other - sometimes it's cheaper to build a whole new bridge instead of tacking another bit on the side.

      The cost of stuff in the Bay area are most likely irrelevant to the project, since stuff will come in from elsewhere.

    • "How come?"

      Italy doesn't have to deal with CalTrans, or the fifty gazillion other state and Bay Area agencies with noses in the project. I believe California's nuthouse approval processes have long eclipsed even the famed Italian bureaucracy.

    • Re:Cost vs Bay Bridge retrofit (Score:5, Informative)

      by Filiks ( 578065 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @03:58AM (#13796280)
      Instead of a concrete skyway like in the Florida Keys, the mayors of Oakland and SF, with the general backing of the Bay Area residents, wanted a signature span instead. The final design has never actually been built anywhere in the world on this scale. Consequently when bids went out for contractors, only one company decided to bid and get involved in this very political situation. Well that bids was far more than expected. Meanwhile over the years the cost of steel has increased dramatically, particularly steel made in the USA, which was a requirement for this project.
      • Hey, don't blame those of us in SF and the peninsula for the "signature span"... our side of the Bay Bridge looks awesome (when it's not being retrofitted).

        Blame the east bay. They're to blame for this stupid mess.

        Odd are it was spearheaded by some hummer driving morons from Blackhawk. But don't hold me to that.

    • Re:Cost vs Bay Bridge retrofit (Score:4, Insightful)

      by TeXMaster ( 593524 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @04:13AM (#13796303)
      Other factors are:
      • eveything in Italy is cheaper than in the USA (about half, although the gap is diminishing)
      • in the South, this is especially more true
      • local labour
      • cheating: with this I mean that the prospected cost will grow much higher as time goes by; since Berlusconi is likely to lose the next elections and who knows, probably the ones after those too, it'll be the left-wing parties that'll have to dig for that money, or stop the works; all the best for Mr. B
      • contrary to the use in most civilized nations (Italy included) the private company that builds it will not be held responsible for defects; this means that if the bridge collapses (wanna bet?) the State will be held liable, not the company that's building it
    • I am slightly surprised that this project is expected to cost at most as much, if not less, than the extected cost of seismic retrofit for the relatively shorter San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge (that project involves the construction of a completely new replacement for the eastern span of the bridge).

      You give the reason in your own question.
      seismic retrofit
      Italy doesn't have to worry about Earthquakes. The seismic retrofit is really the building of an entirely new bridge to replace the old one.
    • What about other factors?

      Rumor on the street is that Italy openly embraced Linux/OSS which led to the cost savings. I also heard that Open Office led to productivity gains, and using Gnome for an interface made their employees more or less immune to the influenza virus.

  • election campaign (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 15, 2005 @02:49AM (#13796136)
    It's election time again in Italy and Berlusconi needs the votes of Sicilies citizens.
    So he pulls out the old bridge plans like he did the last time and the time before.
    Don't expect to travel to Sicily on try feet too soon.
    • Well, Berlusconi is very likely to get the votes from Sicily anyway, due to his well-known connections. But yes, it's also an electoral move.

      It's also a totally useless bridge, considering the state of road and railway communications across souther Italy. Believe me: the Messina striat is scarely the bottleneck, except perhaps for reaching the major cities in Sicily (or conversely when traving from the major cities in Sicily).

    • Re:election campaign (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 15, 2005 @05:32AM (#13796444)
      From www.beppegrillo.it

      A bridge costing 3,880,000,000 Euro to save 20 minutes

      Attacking the Messina Bridge is like attacking the Red Cross. This is plain even to an idiot who is completely useless, even though he is useful to the interests of someone.

      After the ad hoc laws, we now have the ad hoc construction work.

      The bridge is of no use to the Italians, including those from Reggio and from Messina, divided by nature for a million years. To go from Salerno to Reggio Calabria, it takes 48 hours. Then the bridge will allow you to save 20 minutes to get to Sicily.

      The country has other priorities that are real. Motorways and railways are in an abysmal state.

      The 3,880,000,000 Euro are ours. Why should we spend them for a useless construction? Our employees, incapable of managing our public debt, before spending the money for the bridge should explain how we will get a return on the money, and explain the utility, the environmental impact and the do-ability.

      A 3,000 metre bridge with an aerodynamic profile, has never been constructed up to now.
      There's no guarantee that it will stand up, especially if you consider that it's in a zone of major seismic activity (remember the Messina earthquake?) and with incredibly strong currents.

      On this point refer to the interview with the Professor of architectural construction, Massimo Majowiecki. Some of his conclusions are given here.

      "The Delegations of Superintendence of ANAS {Roads}, of FF.SS {railways} and the Ministry of Public
      Works, in July 1995 conclude: " that the Progetto di Massima Definitivo {the final project plan} presented in December 1992, even given the undoubted value of the information supplied, it is not yet possible to indicate which project is definitely the one to be developed into a construction project, to be translated into the building of a bridge and a global passage across."
      In present conditions, the technical uncertainties stil remain...."

      But the bridge will create jobs and contracts and will get the approval of the Confindustria {employers' organisation} and of the Unions. Perhaps it would be better to get them to dig holes and fill them in again. It's a useless activity, but at least it wouldn't cause harm.

      Beppe Grillo

    • I'll not discount Berlusconi own pride

      what else he could be remembered for?

  • Supposed to finish in 2012 (Score:5, Funny)

    by FidelCatsro ( 861135 ) <fidelcatsro&gmail,com> on Saturday October 15, 2005 @02:52AM (#13796141) Journal
    I had heard Rumours that the project may be suspended
  • This is just a political manoeuvre by the Governemt.
    They don't have the money to support it.
    None seems to be really interested in such a thing (not even in Sicilia).
    Scientists warn against it: the Etna volcano is just 50 Km far from there.

    But stock quotes of the company that should build the bridge are going up any time someone quotes the bridge.

    • Re:Politican vapourware (Score:5, Funny)

      by mincognito ( 839071 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @03:24AM (#13796210)
      This is just a political manoeuvre by the Governemt.

      Precisely. They need to create a sense of national pride after losing the whole noodle issue with the chinese.

    • Ofcourse the same thing was said about the Channel Tunnel [wikipedia.org] [Wikipedia] (linking the UK to France) when it was built in the early 90's. Apparently there wasn't enough money to build the 50 km undersea tunnel, there was no need for it and it would probably collapse.

      ...11 years since completion it carries well over 7 million passangers a year, huge amounts of freight and is widely considered to be one of the 7 wonders of the modern world [wikipedia.org] [Wikipedia].

      Not all huge, ground-breaking projects fail and while th

      • the Channel Tunnel (linking the UK to France)

        It's not actually the same situation.
        Do you know how many people and tons of goods used to cross the channel by ship?
        A couple of magnitude orders more than the Canale di Messina!
        The distance between the two sides is 20 times larger in the British Channel.
        And, moreover, there is no active volcano snoring close to the tunnel.
        I'd spend those money and efforts in something more useful or less useless at least.

        • "The distance between the two sides is 20 times larger in the British Channel."

          Don't you mean 20 times smaller than the Channel Tunnel?
          The Channel Tunnel is approximatly 50 km's long wheras the proposed bridge will be just under 4 km's long (and only 3.3 km's over the main span).

          Also, while the area does get earthquakes (although less frequently than in the area of Japan where the current longest bridge in the world is located), I am unsure exactly which 'ative' volcano you are referring to.

  • Just for the record (Score:3, Funny)

    by broothal ( 186066 ) <christian@fabel.dk> on Saturday October 15, 2005 @03:12AM (#13796187) Homepage Journal
    For a short period of time, Storebaeltsbroen [google.dk] held the record, until Akashi was built.

    I actually crossed them both at the same day a few years ago. I wonder if that entitles me to a place in the Guiness book of records :)
  • ... State sponsored construction projects are never completed in time. IF they ever get completed. The Guinness book of records editors should't hold their breath.

    Also, an enormous amount of public money has been dumped for decades into the southern regions, ("Cassa per il Mezzogiorno") to improve its economic situation, ending up to serve the interests of the mafia controlled building firms.
    As reported here [onlyinitaly.com] and as most Italians recall, a couple years ago a guy called Pietro Lunardi said that things lik

  • Previous attempts have failed (Score:4, Informative)

    by G3ckoG33k ( 647276 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @03:26AM (#13796214)
    This project may fail. But then not for technological reasons.

    Several previous attempts of multibillion-dollar, EU-funded projects in that region have failed somewhere between Rome and Palermo. Money, people, and concrete have disappeared and there were never any witnesses. Hope things have changed.

  • Since when did any new bridge like this in America include more than one rail line, if any?

  • Huh 4km aka 2.5m long total (FTFA)? (Score:3, Informative)

    by sm00f ( 819489 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @03:44AM (#13796253)
    The Mackinac Bridge here in michigan is 5 miles long, and held the record for longest suspension span until 1998 at 3/4 mile or so... Is this bridge just being built with NO middle column?? Anyways are some fun links for the Mackinac Bridge (that nobody knows exists it seems): here's all the stats and one pic: http://bridgepros.com/projects/Mackinac/Mackinac.h tm [bridgepros.com] here's the google images link for nice pics: http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&c2c off=1&safe=off&q=mackinac+bridge&spell=1 [google.com] ^^^ and why in the hell doesnt slashdot support carriage returns on win2k + mozilla 1.7???
    • i too, being a michagamaniac, am very proud of our bridge. it doesn't seem to get the credit that is due to it. most likely this is because the bridge is in a very much "out of the way" place. i mean, you really do have to take a trip to see it, but it's got to be near the top of the list of "cool engineering tourist destinations"

      i love it and used to walk it on labor day every year with my parents when i was younger and lived up up north. im a troll, so not that far up north, but still the mighty mac is a

  • With a BIG grain of salt... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mano78 ( 571399 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @03:55AM (#13796277)

    Please be aware that this is a plan that's been around for more than twenty years now, and it's not feasible. The wind is just too strong (been there last month, I saw it), the zone is a sismic one and generally noone cares anyway, because the roads that would bring people to the bridge (the infamous Salerno-Reggio Calabria) are ancient to be kind and generally a wreck.

    Be also aware that this is election time, and our prime citizen Berlusconi will lose. So he bring out this old project, to gain some thousands of votes, and will leave it to the next administration to realize. Same old story...

    (see the Mose project to protect Venice from floodings)

    • The Mackinac bridge is 5 miles long (suspension) and is capable of surviving winds greater than mach 1, in wind tunnel tests.

      I highly doubt that it's impossible to engineer a bridge to sustain whatever winds may be in the area.

  • The BBC got it slightly wrong. The Italian bridge will be the highest bridge in the world. The current record is the Millau bridge in France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millau_viaduct [wikipedia.org]) build by the company that was created by Eiffel!

  • One nation? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by danila ( 69889 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @05:57AM (#13796484) Homepage
    Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has trumpeted the project as a vital driver of development in the south, which will finally make Italy one nation by linking Sicily to the mainland.

    I wonder if Mr. Berlusconi has heard of a place called Sardinia [initaly.com].

  • nusefull (Score:3, Interesting)

    by silian87 ( 920274 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @07:29AM (#13796629) Homepage
    I am an italian guy, and I think this bridge is simple unuseful!!! It cost a lot of money to a country that have money problems, and maiby it is dangerous too! Boat exist!

  • Sicilian mafia dies unless it halts the project! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This bridge 99% likely will not be built. If this bridge stood over the straits the power of Mafia in Sicily would collapse. They couldn't keep the local population in poverty and opression by selling drinking water (under their exclusive mafia control) for hyper-inflated prices, because this bridge is planned to carry two giant aquaducts inside its deck, too.

    With this bridge, Sicily would be integrated into Italy and central government and police would have much better access to the island to keep the orde
  • I was vaguely aware that the japanese bridge was the biggest. The second biggest being the danish Storebaeltsbro - That bridge is over 6 km [storebaelt.dk] long [trafikken.dk]?! Or do they measure it a different way?
  • I can tell you I had a wonderful time in Sicily for 10 days about 20 years ago.

    A 25 hour train ride from Paris over the Alps with a beautiful Amherst prospective Italian teacher got me some basic grammar, we stayed with her Italian teacher.

    Messina, on the tip of the mainland has a beautiful Carravagio museum with a massive work that shows gorgeous gold highlights (Carravagio's specialty) with artful lighting.

    I recommend going before the bridge is completed, assuming it is a train bridge as well. The reason

  • The American perspective (Score:3, Funny)

    by Viadd ( 173388 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @01:26PM (#13797909)
    In the US, our government has allocated $223 million for a 6300 foot long, 200 foot high (~2 km, 60 meter) bridge Not too far out of line when you scale down the Italian bridge.

    They are going to put it between Ketchican, Alaska (population 14500) and Gravina Island (population 50).

    Sicilians may have invented organized crime, but the US Congress has perfected it.
  • I thought that the Rio-Antirio [gefyra.gr] bridge which was completed in 2004 in Greece had surpassed that record.

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