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Science

Four Millennia Old Noodles Found In China 264

Posted by Zonk from the i'll-have-some-takout dept.
mollten writes "According to BBC News, the world's oldest noodles have been found at the Lajia site in China. Carbon Dating has found the remains to be over 4000 years old." From the article: "Prior to the discovery of noodles at Lajia, the earliest written record of noodles is traced to a book written during the East Han Dynasty sometime between AD 25 and 220, although it remained a subject of debate whether the Chinese, the Italians, or the Arabs invented it first ... Our discovery indicates that noodles were first produced in China."
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Four Millennia Old Noodles Found In China More

Four Millennia Old Noodles Found In China

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  • Lajia U? (Score:4, Funny)

    by yagu ( 721525 ) * <yayagu.gmail@com> on Friday October 14, 2005 @09:31PM (#13795483) Journal

    They should keep digging. I'm betting they've stumbled across an old Lajia University dormitory and discovered students' supplies of Ramen. (Well at least that's what we lived on in college.)

  • Was it Ramen? (Score:5, Funny)

    by notthe9 ( 800486 ) on Friday October 14, 2005 @09:32PM (#13795485)
    That stuff lasts forever. Bet it was.

    Probably still good.

    • Re:Was it Ramen? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by StarDrifter ( 144026 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @12:10AM (#13795931)
      The article says they resemble La-Mian noodles. And according to Wikipedia, the name Ramen [wikipedia.org] was probably derived from "la mian". So maybe not exactly ramen, but it could be the ancestor of the modern noodle.

      • Re:Was it Ramen? (Score:2, Interesting)

        by CameraChimera ( 835399 )
        La Mian literally translates as pulled noodles. They're a specialty of northwestern China and incredible delicious, but to really appreciate them you have to see them made.

        The noodle chef starts with a well worked ball of dough, rolls it into a rope like thing, takes one end in each hand, pulls it as wide as his armspan while swinging it up and down, doubles it over between his hands and repeats until it's been stretched thin enough. I realize my description doesn't do it justice, but to see it is to be
        • Yes, even instant noodles are better if you make them yourself. I've had the opportunity to make a pack myself, and fry them into a chicken-flavoured niceness, without any preservatives.

  • Translation of text found with noodles (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 14, 2005 @09:33PM (#13795488)
    1. heat 1 cup boiling water
    2. peel back lid on cup and pour water to line
    3. cover for 3 minutes

  • mmm (Score:3, Funny)

    by Kickboy12 ( 913888 ) on Friday October 14, 2005 @09:33PM (#13795489) Homepage
    Wonder what the expiration date was.

  • Arrr matey! (Score:5, Funny)

    by geeber ( 520231 ) on Friday October 14, 2005 @09:34PM (#13795495)
    Yet more proof. He [venganza.org] Lives!

  • Ancient ramen? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Bananatree3 ( 872975 ) *
    While Ramen was technically invented in the 1970's, I just can't help thinking about how ramen would have tasted 4000 years ago. Would it be plain, or maybe chicken flavored? How about beef flavored? I really wish I knew, but all we have now is a microscopic noodle-shaped, tubular shriviled up mass that would probably taste horrible if mixed with water. :/
    • I just can't help thinking about how ramen would have tasted 4000 years ago. Would it be plain, or maybe chicken flavored? I really wish I knew, but all we have now is a microscopic noodle-shaped, tubular shriviled up mass that would probably taste horrible if mixed with water. :/

      This differs fromt he modern version? how?

  • This is the proof we needed! (Score:5, Funny)

    by origamy ( 807009 ) on Friday October 14, 2005 @09:37PM (#13795505) Homepage
    This is irrefutable archeologycal proof of the existance of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

    This may have an impact on the holy books, but I'm sure the clergy is already handling the matter.

  • The inventions of noodles was in question? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by king-manic ( 409855 ) on Friday October 14, 2005 @09:38PM (#13795511)
    I thought it was a concrete fact that the chinese invented it and it migrated west. The italians haven't had them for all that long.
    • I thought it was a concrete fact

      You're right, those noodles are probably pretty dried out after 4000 years.

    • It's not a concrete fact. There is a commonly told story that Marco Polo brought pasta back to Italy, but there is quite a bit of evidence that pasta existed in Italy before MP. There is also evidence of pasta in Roman and Greek times. Further evidence shows pasta existed in the middle east. And we know that pasta existed in China (from TFA).

      One theory is that pasta was invented in several different regions independently. Considering the ingredients it seems plausible. Ground grain, water, maybe some eggs.
    • You can chalk this one up to the fact that almost all modern history is written from a Western point of view (read: European and occasionally Middle Eastern outlook).

      Who invented gunpowder first? The Chinese (although primarily used for bombs and fireworks.)
      Who developed rule by divine right first? The Chinese (see: Chinese Mandate of Heaven.)
      Who developed (or adopted) the idea of education as a high priority for all its citizens? The Chinese (see: Confucius.)

      Who 'discovered' North and South America firs

      • I don't seem to recall any modern history books written from a Western viewpoint disputing ANYTHING you mentioned.
        • I don't seem to recall any modern history books written from a Western viewpoint disputing ANYTHING you mentioned.

          They just don't tend to mention it very much. Asian achievments that is. Their ussually hevily focused on European history. At leats high school texts. And often the facts in high school level texts are off.
          • Chinese history doesn't mention chinese advancements much. Everytime a new dynasty came in everything got all munged up.
            • The Opium Wars, the European imperialism, the turning of Chinese against Chinese citizens followed by the invasion of the Japanese in World War II didn't help either. The fact that this dates back to the early 1800s (read: Industrial Revolution) doesn't help either.

              By the time you get to the late 1940s with World War II ending, you've got a nation literally divided upon itself: western China was largely untouched, but eastern China was a demolished warzone not to the fact that Nationalist Chinese forces wer

              • Africa is a giant war raging example of what 'could' happen if they try switching to a capitalist imposed Western system as so many African countries have done and collapsed

                Mentioning capitalism as the source of Africa's problems is, let's say, a unique perspective. Many of Africa's problems can be attributed to Western colonialism, but that is NOT capitalism.
            • Chinese history doesn't mention chinese advancements much. Everytime a new dynasty came in everything got all munged up.

              The last one lasted 600 years. Although civil unrest was common. As well, China takes great pride in teaching it's children about itself. Much liek Europe, America, Canada ect...
      • Who developed rule by divine right first? The Chinese


        Rule by diving right is considered a cultural advance now??? I'd say at best it's a crude propaganda tool to keep the superstitious proles in line....

      • Re:The inventions of noodles was in question? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by typical ( 886006 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @01:04AM (#13796043) Journal
        You can chalk this one up to the fact that almost all modern history is written from a Western point of view (read: European and occasionally Middle Eastern outlook).

        You mean most *Western* history is written from a Western point of view. Go to China and I suspect that you'll find somewhat different history texts.
    • But now we know the Flying Spagetti monster favored the Chineese first with the fruits of his noodly appendage.
  • I can find that at the shop around the corner. It even includes a coupon to go and see where they're building the Egyptian pyramids...
  • ...

    This finding replaces the previous record, 270 years, previously held by "Uncle Joe's Authentic Chynees" (sic) on 3rd Street. While the restaurant (closed since August under order of the local health department after reports of patrons teeth chipping while eating the "Egg-Foou-Youngings") no longer holds the record, it maintains its distinction as the restaurant serving the oldest noodles. When asked for comment, "Uncle Joe" continued to defend his cuisine stating that his establishment has a policy of

  • One more proof.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by dracken ( 453199 ) on Friday October 14, 2005 @09:42PM (#13795530) Homepage
    ....that we were all created by his noodly appendage [venganza.org].

  • If They're Looking For Old Food... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Ginnungagap42 ( 817075 ) on Friday October 14, 2005 @09:45PM (#13795543)
    Hell they should have dug in the back of my refrigerator; I've got noodles WAY older than that back there...
  • The world's oldest flavor sauce and oil packets were found.

  • That sound you hear... (Score:5, Funny)

    by winkydink ( 650484 ) * <sv.dude@gmail.com> on Friday October 14, 2005 @09:53PM (#13795564) Homepage Journal
    is 58 million Italians crying out in anguish

  • Non sequitur (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Elf-friend ( 554128 ) on Friday October 14, 2005 @09:54PM (#13795565)
    Our discovery indicates that noodles were first produced in China

    Although I would tend to agree with that theory, this is badly worded, to the verge of being a logical fallacy. It would be better to say that the discovery "rules out the Italians and Arabs," since those cultures post-date these noodles (assuming the accuracy of the dating, despite radiocarbon's vulnerability to contamination). The discovery does not prove that some earlier culture didn't have noodles first. We can only say we have no evidence for an earlier existence.
    • It would be better to say that the discovery "rules out the Italians and Arabs," since those cultures post-date these noodles

      Best sentence ever.

    • Re:Non sequitur (Score:2, Funny)

      by Yurka ( 468420 )
      Three scientists are walking across countryside when they see a cow.

      "It is a Bos taurus," - says the biologist.
      "It is black," - says the physicist.
      "It is black on not less than one side," - says the mathematician.

    • Re:Non sequitur (Score:3, Informative)

      by the phantom ( 107624 ) *
      ...despite radiocarbon's vulnerability to contamination...

      In most cases, contamination of C14 samples can come from one of two places: either newer material is introduced or older carbon is absorbed from the matrix. If newer material was introduced (either by the archeologists, or by natural processes), then the date will come out more recent, thus the noodles are older than the dates suggest. On the other hand, older material is generally introduced from the sediment matrix itself, and that is fairly
      • I wasn't taking issue with the date, I was simply mentioning, as an aside, that there has been controversy surrounding radiocarbon. You're right, in most cases, especially this recent, it's a good estimate.
      • Why does everyone have such problems with radiocarbon dating?

        Theological concerns. If C14 dating is correct, then the earth is older than 6000 years ago, and it would anger the sky wizard to have errors poked in a book some guy wrote.
  • Also found nearby was the world's oldest chicken ball, and world's oldest heat lamp.
    • Archeologists also announced the discovery of an ancient 7-11 nearby, which had been buried under lava for millennia. Inside it were fresh Twinkies and a primitive wooden machine mysteriously labeled 'Apple 0'.
  • Strange, I read the article, and I wanted to read it again twenty minutes later.

  • Condiments? (Score:5, Funny)

    by ElectricOkra ( 876481 ) on Friday October 14, 2005 @10:04PM (#13795606)
    What they didn't say is that they also found 30 unopened packets of Duck Sauce...
  • ...on a room service tray in the hallway of a 3000-year old hotel
  • I'm always facinated to see what stands the test of time, obvious good food stays around, just take beer (just not mine!) for example:

    More than 6,000 years ago, the refreshing qualities of beer were recognized and enjoyed, and ancient peoples have left records to indicate that they took the brewing of this thirst-quenching beverage very seriously. The Chinese, Inca, African, Babylonian, Assyrian, Egyptian, Hebrew and Saxon are just a few civilizations in which beer has been associated with family life, fri

    • What would be interesting... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jd ( 1658 )
      They (believe) they have the list of ingredients for an ancient cocktail, they're pretty sure they've got the list for ancient beers, wines and meads across the globe, they've managed to identify the ingredients for breads found inside the stomachs of Iron Age people found in peat bogs, and now they've got the recipe for ancient noodles.

      I'm sure it's done to some degree, but it would seem to me that there exists an opportunity for archaeologists to tempt people into the field by taking reproductions of thes

    • That depends on what you mean by "beer". If you mean "fermented grain", then yes people have been drinking it a long time. If you mean hops, water, wheat and yeast, than not so long.

      I don't understand what the hype about beer is. I have never thought to myself "I could use a nice, refreshing glass of wheat juice", so I am hardly about to think "I could use a nice, refreshing glass of rotten wheat juice". Beer tastes bitter and thick, and its alcohol content is so low that I have to sit drinking it til I fee

  • This story... (Score:4, Funny)

    by mary_will_grow ( 466638 ) on Friday October 14, 2005 @10:09PM (#13795621)
    ...is as old as those noodles!

    ha!!

  • Freshness? (Score:4, Funny)

    by ZenPirate ( 562047 ) on Friday October 14, 2005 @10:09PM (#13795624)
    I bet they're not as tasty as four millenia old twinkies would be.
    • Honey lasts forever.

      Well, a long time.

      There is a mild antibiotic in honey, and the sugar content is too high for anything to live in it unless the honey becomes diluted.
  • We dont know where noodles where invented, just like we dont know alot about our history in the early ages of man. Just because they found some evidience doesnt make it fact that china was first. Its a theory, nothing can be proven as fact yet.

    Tired of all these new discoveries to be taken as fact, when they keep changing every few years...
    • Tired of all these new discoveries to be taken as fact

      You know, of course that nothing is ever 'proven' in science. Science is simply the art of observing the universe around you and making your best guess at why things happened a certain way etc. a simple formal standard to document and allow others to critizise your 'discoveries.'

      anyone who knows something 'for a fact' simply has stopped trying to look for better answers. take a simple test of dropping a feather and a coin, in normal atmosphere the feat
  • Carbon Dating has found the remains to be over 4000 years old

    I'm pretty sure some of the Smack ramen I subsisted on in college was pretty close to that.
  • Must be a fake; it's not for sale on ebay!
  • Since /. updated I frequently have *two* of the same articles display in Safari's RSS reader, each beside one another. Why is that happening?

  • Although the noodles had to be saved for science (Score:3, Funny)

    by Julian Morrison ( 5575 ) on Saturday October 15, 2005 @03:01AM (#13796286)
    ...some eggs found nearby were considered a delicacy.
  • I thought all food was bio-degradable. Can something humans digest really last 4000 years?
  • As someone who loves both cooking (particularly chinese food) and ancient history as well as evolution, I'm really curious if anybody has any info on how someone might have stumbled across the creation of noodles.

    I know this may be kind of weird, but in terms of "culinary evolution"...why have they survived so long as a staple food item?

    And also...is anybody here familiar with the concept of culinary evolution? I just kinda made it up for this post, but if it really exists and there is info out there on it

    • The noodle, like the potato chip, probably was developed quite by accident: someone pouring water on some flour, or the like. Why has it stayed around?

      I guess the most simple reason is that you can preserve noodles a long time. Compare how long bread takes to mold with how long noodles take to mold. Especially since noodles are smaller, and can be put inside a closed container easier.

      Also, the process of cooking noodles also sanitizes them. In Chinese cuisine, normally most things (including plain water), a
  • ...and wait a minute or two, they'll be ready to eat!
  • fiber or rice-based paper box with an iron loop protruding from the sides, in the fashion of a simple handle; typical of that age.

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