Probes Could Swim Through Ice on Mars or Europa

Fraser Cain writes "NASA's Institute for Advanced Concepts (NIAC) has funded a proposal to explore the idea of a robotic probe that could melt its way through the polar icecaps on Mars or ice covering Europa's ocean. A swarm of these these 100 kg probes would sample pockets of air in the ice as they maneuvered around in formation, searching for evidence of life - either past or present."

Don't you think....

[HotNeedleOfInquiry]

They should fix the shuttle gas gauge sender first?

Re:Don't you think....

[HotNeedleOfInquiry]

So I'm a troll... What the fsk does a poster have to do to be funny? Hell, there's only 12 posts, not like I'm wasting bandwidth...

eek!

[thhamm]

melt its way through the polar icecaps on Mars

no no, don`t do it. these things seem to turn out bad [counterfrag.com] these days.

Let's hope they get it done right.

[alexwcovington]

This is a good idea, but it'll take a lot to make it work right, especially difficult while the NASA budget is flung all over the place.

It is especially important with all the water they'll be dealing with, that they take much more care with biological scrubbing... The recent news about the bacteria on the Mars landers doesn't bode well for sending anything 100% clean to the edges of space.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Let's hope they get it done right.

[gstoddart]

And what if there are intelligent things in the ice?
I bet they'll wonder why we launched flaming balls of death at them...

Nah. The American Information Minister will announce that we have liberated the intelligent beings from their ice-prison and plan on installing a democracy and a Wal Mart. :-P

You modded him funny?

[lilmouse]

Geeze - moderators with no vision! If someone sent a probe knocked out every electronic device in the western US with an EMP (because it was measuring sub-surface structure based on the echo?), what do you think Bush would do? "I, for one, welcome our new..."? No way in hell - he'd make some speech about freedom and launch our nuculear arsenal into speace to deal with it!

--LWM

Re:Let's hope they get it done right.

[Shihar]

I can't answer your first questions, but I can answer your second one.

"Did they ever even actually find ice/water on Mars or is this just more speculation?"

You know those big white caps on the poles of Mars? Yeah... that is ice. Well, frozen CO2 as well, but also ice. There is absolutely no question that Mars has ice.

Re:Let's hope they get it done right.

[vethia]

If the project is viable, there's always the possibility of other funding from private sources such as the Planetary Society [planetarysociety.org]. Interest in spaceflight and the search for extraterrestrial life comes from many corners, and as evidenced by the X Prize [xprizefoundation.com], there's money out there.

Second of 12

[DynaSoar]

There's only 10 more of the most recent NIAC phase 1 awards to trickle through the delay lines between the nodes of the blogohypersphere and find their way to /. as "news".

Or you can get it over with and read them all at http://www.niac.usra.edu/studies/studies.jsp?cpnum =05-01 [usra.edu]

You can also check the "call for proposals" link and wait until they open it up again, and send your Great Big Idea for consideration. Also, students can do the same, for scholarship money at http://www.niac.usra.edu/students/index.html [usra.edu]

Re:Second of 12

[Fraser Cain]

/. posted an announcement of the full list a couple of months ago, but NIAC just posted short descriptions of each technology.

We've been interviewing each of the proponents and getting the full story.

So, it'll be a few more months before we've gone through all of them. If that's not fast enough for you, come and write for me. :-)

Re:Second of 12

[DynaSoar]

"If that's not fast enough for you, come and write for me."

Let it not be said I'm just another /. whiner, unwilling to put effort into changing what I complain about.

Offer sent via email.

Swim through ice?

[rossdee]

Don't you normally need H2O in its liquid form in order to swim?

While Europa may have liquid beneath the ice crust, the probe will still have to get through that crust first. Will it be taking along the necessary tools (Icehouse, auger and sufficient quantities of alcohol which seem to be required by ice fishermen to get through the ice on the lakes around here?

Re:Swim through ice?

[NiceGeek]

Ok...once again Slasdotters have proven not only to be unable to RTFA but can't even bother to read the freaking summary - what part of "robotic probe that could MELT its way through the polar icecaps on Mars or ice covering Europa's ocean" didn't you understand?

Lighten up, son

[jfengel]

Dude... it was a JOKE. Probes taking along an ice house and alcohol, like they do in Minnesota... get it?

At least bother to read the whole post before flaming on. No, it wasn't a particularly well told joke (he took too long to get to the punch line), but jeez, man: lighten up.

Obligatory

[Z0mb1eman]

"All these worlds are yours, except Europa"

Better be careful what they swim into... :p

Re:Obligatory

[ChadN]

For another bit of fun, I just noticed that Google maps now has a map of the moon landing sites available, in celebration of the anniversary of the first landing.

http://moon.google.com/ [google.com]

Try zooming in all the way...

As for exploring other systems that could be life supporting, as a NASA contractor, I hope we a) make it a bigger priority, and b) don't fuck it up by contaminating anything.

I used to think, when I was young, that if we found extraplanetary life, in my lifetime, I would be alive to see an am

Probes

[weicco]

So we are sending back those anal-probes (remember South Park and Cartman with 30 feet satellite disc coming from his rear end?) they've been installing to us for some time now?

Did he say ...

[OeLeWaPpErKe]

100 kg ? a swarm ? mars ?

I think they need to recheck nasa's pricelist for dropping a kg of material on mars ...

This Is Good News

[lorelorn]

A detailed search of Europa has been a high priority since the Gallileo mission confirmed what most people though after Voyager- a liquid 'ocean' under an ice layer.

What makes this project different, and why it has actually advanced, is that someone has actually come up with a design that looks like it might work!

It's long been known what you need to do to get under the ice and explore, but the particulars have never before reached even this stage- and it is an early stage.

There won't be a mission to Europa in the next 5-8 years, but the next 10-15 looks more possible. Subject to budgetary constraints, of course.

Re:Solar Sails

[leonardluen]

you need to pay for the R&D to make them work first. and then they would be a new and unproven technology. we know how standard rocket engines work, and we have a lot of experience using them.

Why not Vostok first?

[ThomasCR]

Before you bother to go to Europa, do try it at home! On Antarctica's lake Vostok. AFAIK, that ice above this lake is still not penetrated? Will it be easier on Europa, where the pH is around zero?

Re:Why not Vostok first?

[DerekLyons]

Before you bother to go to Europa, do try it at home! On Antarctica's lake Vostok.

Already in progress.

Re:Why not Vostok first?

[ThomasCR]

I know. For how many years, by how many people involved?

This looks simple enough

[MooseTick]

Plop a few transmitters on the surface with small nuclear heat sources on their bottom. Let them melt the ice below them and make a tunnel straight down. Eventually it will cave in on top of the probe and make transmissions more difficult. It could take various readings as it melted its way through.

Re:This looks simple enough

[spike hay]

Just trail a thin wire through.

Water pressure

[janap]

Once the probe broke through the ice at the bottom, wouldn't the tremendous water pressure down there carry it all the way back up to the top again, creating kind of a geyser throwing the probe up and away?