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Space Science

Cassini's Got Pictures And Data 109

Posted by Zonk from the mmmm-data dept.
MythMoth writes "To celebrate the anniversary of the Cassini-Huygens probe's orbital insertion, NASA's JPL has a set of fifteen amazing photos from the past year. Meanwhile, the BBC reports that some of the latest science data from the mission reveals that Saturn's ring system has its own (thin) O2 atmosphere, and that the planet's rotation seems to be slowing!"
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Cassini's Got Pictures And Data More

Cassini's Got Pictures And Data

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  • He said "insertion" ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 02, 2005 @07:52PM (#12971326)
    To celebrate the anniversary of the Cassini-Huygens probe's orbital insertion ...

    Hell, this is /., we'll celebrate anyone's insertion. Call me for the explosion.

  • Death Star! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 02, 2005 @07:53PM (#12971329)
    Vote for the Death Star (you can figure out which one I mean)

  • Titan's True Color OR Is That Mars...? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Saturday July 02, 2005 @07:59PM (#12971350)
    The one picture that is supposed to show Titan's true color appears to be very similar to pictures of Mars having a bad air day. Is that picture really from Titan or did someone throw in a Mars photo?

    Inquiring minds want to know. :P
    • It's from Titan. I recall seeing that picture as part of the first group of pictures Huygens sent back to be made public. Though it was in black and white initially.

    • Re:Titan's True Color OR Is That Mars...? (Score:5, Informative)

      by deglr6328 ( 150198 ) on Saturday July 02, 2005 @08:33PM (#12971480)
      It was BW. They used the spectral information from the DISR device (think of it as a single pixel of full very accurate color) and then used it to interpolate color for a whole image. Anywho, it's bizarre but the highest quality polished images didn't seem to come from the DISR group (bleech [arizona.edu]) but instead from amateurs [liekens.net], mere hours after descent no less. One should keep in mind this is all through an 1 byte/sec link from the probe....
      • You can only get so much data out of those images. when you polish those images, you're just amplifying the noise in the image. Making out details that might or might not exist. Its best not to 'polish' them too much or you might infer details that really arn't there.
      • "They used the spectral information from the DISR device (think of it as a single pixel of full very accurate color) and then used it to interpolate color for a whole image"

        That's what they did, but color doesn't work like that. What they are showing you is what you would get with a camera with a bad white-balance setting.

        Chances are that if you actually looked at the scene, you'd see something fairly neutral, closer to the b/w image, or even with blue and green hues.
  • Cool about Cassini. NASA's Greatest Hits of the last few decades seem to be Lagrange Point planetary orbiters and the Hubble Space Telescope. I was going to credit the snake-bitten Shuttle missions for rescuing Hubble, but heck we're going to junk that.

  • Can't wait for the video. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by frostman ( 302143 ) on Saturday July 02, 2005 @08:05PM (#12971376) Homepage Journal
    I hope one day we get high-definition video from these missions.

    Imagine something like the the descent panorama [nasa.gov] but in the IMAX and later on your big fat TV.
    • If you look close you will see these mission can never produce HD images. The max resolution I have seen as 1024x1024 and the image quality then is still terrible. To get IMAX photos you need to send an IMAX camera.

    • Re:Can't wait for the video. (Score:5, Informative)

      by Bad D.N.A. ( 753582 ) <baddna@gmaiIIIl.com minus threevowels> on Saturday July 02, 2005 @09:05PM (#12971602)
      Agreed... but... We would love to produce HD type pics from these missions. It's not a scientific problem, nor is it a technical problem, it's a financial problem! Let's take a look:

      The camera. This dude has to work in a radiation environment. You cannot just take your high-def Newegg purchased camera and launch it. These types of things have been tried before (non-flight qualified parts) and they don't last long. No, you have to build this bad boy from scratch with parts (CCDs, etc) that can withstand a severe radiation environment.

      BitRate. One of the significant cost issues on any mission is the science bitrate requirements. It costs a lot of money to get data back to Earth. First there is the instruments ability to collect such data (insignificant)... Second there is the spacecrafts ability to transmit this data, a very significant problem.. (with increased bitRate comes increased power requirements, increased mass, etc...) and with that comes a significant increase in the launch costs, to say nothing of the development costs.

      Collection... With an increased bitRate comes a greater requirement to collect the data and so a significant increase in cost.. You don't just point your little home dish at the right location and get a signal... (don't get me wrong, that would be great, but the power to generate such a signal would be sadly cost prohibitative). No, you have to collect the data on the big boys and they are not cheap.

      In each and every one of these missions the scientists and engineers have to scale back their desires (not because of any technological problems but) because what they would like to do cannot be done given the funding opportunity. So you cut, scale back, cut some more, scale back again, etc... and eventually you arrive at a proposal that might actually be funded. It's not exactly what you would hope for, but given the opportunity available it's your best bet at a viable mission.
      • What amazes me is that no probes have yet been constructed in orbit, allowing far larger probes to be sent. You could easily send up components, park them near the ISS whilst people go bolt them together, then send it on its way.

        Big camera? No worry. Need huge solar panels? No worry. Send them up piecemeal and build in orbit. Bus sized probes shouldn't be a problem.

  • Great stuff (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Robotron23 ( 832528 ) on Saturday July 02, 2005 @08:11PM (#12971404)
    One of the most intriguing of all the photos is likely the one of the moon Iapetus. While the other photos beautifully capture images of Titan and Saturn itself, the real object of intrigue is the geological formation on Iapetus. Near its equator theres a huge topographic ridge, which gives the moon a really unusual appearance.

    Was anyone else struck by how Titan seems very similar to Mars on its surface shot? Lots of small rocks and boulders laying around its surface and a general haze present etc etc.

  • Why Just Pictures? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DanielMarkham ( 765899 ) on Saturday July 02, 2005 @08:13PM (#12971408) Homepage
    Seems by now we could have something a little more advanced -- holograms maybe, or at least all images as stereographs. If these robot missions are to take the place of manned exploration as some have indicated, then wouldn't it make sense to do the best you can so that people would feel they were actually there? Even the use of false color bothers me -- do people even know what the real planets look like anymore? Sky and Telescope magazine ran an article last month about how newcomers to astronomy are sometimes dissapointed when they see the real thing! It's because most of the pictures in the mass media have been "enhanced".

    Certifications: Worth It Or Waste Of Time? [whattofix.com]

    • Re:Why Just Pictures? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by xoboots ( 683791 ) on Saturday July 02, 2005 @08:47PM (#12971543) Journal
      Can you clarify what you mean be "anymore"? Was there ever a time that people knew what the real planets "looked" like? Or even the unreal planets for that matter....most of everything we know is heresay and much of that is colorful heresay, to say the least.

      Best of all, if you really want to know what the planets look like, these "false colored" images are the best thing after all because they pick out features that single sources of original data are obscuring or not picking up at all. It shouldn't be forgotten that this is data imaging, not a family picnic slideshow; the instruments being used to generate the data are not limited to the familiar visible-spectrum light camera that we are used to for our snapshots.

      Still, I'm anxiously awaiting those holographic images you suggested. Now thats a nice enhancement!
    • "Seems by now we could have something a little more advanced"

      "If these robot missions are to take the place of manned exploration as some have indicated, ETC..."

      Holly shit. Nearly all of the scientific advances have taken place on these robotic missions. Your FUD would like everyone to think that manned missions somehow trump robotic missions on the science-production front. Go ahead and do the study (don't waste your time, it has already been done) and you will find that any 1 of these robotic missio

  • Congratulations to all involved (Score:3, Insightful)

    by suitepotato ( 863945 ) on Saturday July 02, 2005 @08:16PM (#12971418)
    This looks like a mission very well done thus far and is the sort of thing we should do at every opportunity.

    For the future, I'd like to see us mass-producing multi-use probes and sending small convoys of them out across the system. I'd also like to see more space telescopes sent out and about to capture data to send home. Imagine sending something about half the size of Hubble to orbit between Mars and Jupiter.
  • Inevitably, whenever there's a vote some fucker'll complain about their own personal choice not being there. My choice - not cowboyneal - is for the shot [nasa.gov] of Mimas against the rings.

    Still, well done to all concerned for giving us a years worth of desktop pictures. Oh, and some science.

  • rotation (Score:5, Funny)

    by dpille ( 547949 ) on Saturday July 02, 2005 @08:32PM (#12971475)
    the planet's rotation seems to be slowing!

    Of course it is. We keep using it to boost our spacecraft.
    • Ha ha. That would take many, many slingshots in order to have any perceptible effect on Saturn's rotation.

      If it is indeed true that Saturn's rotation is slowing, then something very strange is happening with that planet.

      The only thing a not especially well-educated person like me can make of this observation is that there is mass migrating upward from Saturn's core, thereby slowing the rotation down. Then again, there are the physicists who posit the existence of strange "hyperdimensional" effects to a

      • What slows Saturn is the same thing that is slowing Earth. Tidal forces between the planet, its moons, and the Sun.

        Ever wonder why only one side of the moon faces us? It's called tidal locking.

        The Earth is slowing down too. Tidal forces gives the moon our angular momentum little by little. The Sun affects us too, just less so. As the earth's rotatiion slows, the moon's orbital velocity increases pushing the moon farther away.

        Saturn's rotation is slowing? As someone who has studied astrophysics, I can saf
        • I wonder about this: given enough time, does every stable system eventually become tidally locked like the Earth/Moon? Eventually, could we end up with only one face of the Earth ever seeing the sun? Ignore the fact that the sun might die before this could ever happen. :)
          • The answer is not as simple as you would think.

            First the earth would slow to match the moon's orbit. The moon's gravity affects us more than the sun's (roughly 3 times more if I remember correctly). Then the sun's tidal forces would eventually slow the Earth-Moon system so that the moon spirals back into the Earth.

            But here is the rub. The earth would lock with the sun perfectly... if there were no other celestial bodies affecting the two. However the other planets, mostly Venus, would probably throw a mon
        • Pardon me. I should have indicated in my initial post that the observed rate of change in Saturn's rotation was on the order of seven minutes per day since the initial readings by the Voyager probes thirty years ago. That is too significant a change to be accounted for by Saturn's moons. That is why the phenomenon is difficult for astronomers to understand.

    • rotation problem (Score:4, Insightful)

      by shadowbearer ( 554144 ) * on Saturday July 02, 2005 @10:20PM (#12971905) Homepage Journal
      Just an amateur astronomer, but :)

      My first thought there (+grain_salt) is that Saturn must have suffered a grazing collision with a large body - probably the same one that created the rings - and the dispersion of the rings mass, like the recession of Earth's moon, is having the same effect on Saturn that it does here, slowing rotation. Unlike Earth's moon this would have to be an unstable system.

      Only that seems like a *huge* number, given how fast Saturns' rotation is, and how massive it is *. So the impact must be recent - and it's pretty widely accepted, I gather, that Saturn's rings are very young.

      If that figure for the rotational change is right - is it just the surface winds or something deeper? - then whatever created the rings was *very very* recent?

      * Too tired to do the math, but wouldn't Saturn's low density contribute?

      Cheers,
      SB
      • Data from Cassini indicate that Saturn has slowed down its rotation compared to what other automatic probes measured in the '70s and '80s. So no big bodies and no significative dispersion of mass - we would have seen it.

        • As "young" as the rings are, they're still quite old compared to mankind :) Easily could have been an impact millions of years ago that is still having effects on Saturn...

          SB
          • I don't think so.
            An impact a million years ago would have slowed down Saturn's rotation a million years ago.
            For every change in speed or angular momentum there is an applied force somewhere. An impact that happened that long ago can't be directly responsible for something happening today.

        • Re:rotation problem (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Tablizer ( 95088 )
          IMO, it may have something to do with the different layers or "shells" that make up Saturn. Maybe momentum gets transfered back and forth between layers in a cyclical fashion. It is difficult to give precise rotation numbers because Saturn is a big ball of goop. If you can only obtain clues from a limited part(s) of the goop, then you get only approximate numbers.

          Even Earth's outer rotation speed is slightly different from the core's because the core is molten and can move slightly independant of the harde

  • Coming Soon! (Score:3, Funny)

    by PHAEDRU5 ( 213667 ) <instascreed@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Saturday July 02, 2005 @08:37PM (#12971494) Homepage
    Texas-sized comet, accidentally knocked off-kilter by NASA probe, hits....

    T E X A S

    !!!!!

    Yeah, baby, yeaaaah!

  • thin atmosphere (Score:5, Funny)

    by haakondahl ( 893488 ) on Saturday July 02, 2005 @08:45PM (#12971536)
    Wouldn't that be an atmotorus?

    Yeah, yeah -1 Pedant...
    • Wouldn't that be an atmotorus?


      Actually, yes! Pretty phenomena, but they aren't as rare as the illusive atmododecahedron. Those angled gasses are usually only found in geometry class...

  • Titan volcano image is cool too (Score:3, Interesting)

    by amightywind ( 691887 ) on Saturday July 02, 2005 @08:51PM (#12971560) Journal

    The Titan landscape has proven to be so fantastic I hope NASA considers sending a long lived rover back soon. I think the recent Titan volcano [nasa.gov]VIMS image belongs on this list.

    • The Solar System Exploration Strategic Roadmap [spaceref.com] lays out NASA's current plans/wishlist for robotic exploration in the next 20+ years. Basically, they foresee one Discovery [nasa.gov] class (NEAR, Mars Pathfinder, Deep Impact, etc) mission every two years or so; two or three more expensive New Frontiers missions per decade such as the Pluto New Horizons probe or the newly announced Juno [spacetoday.net] Jupiter Polar Obiter; and one or possibly two $1 billion+ "Flagship" missions. The first flagship mission will be the much delayed Euro

  • Cheap planet (Score:5, Interesting)

    by AndroidCat ( 229562 ) on Saturday July 02, 2005 @09:08PM (#12971610) Homepage
    Imagine a planet losing seven minutes over a couple decades! If they look closely, they'll probably see that it's really a S4turn and God bought a cheap knock-off from a sidewalk vendor.

    They did say that they might not be measuring it right. Still, between the swirly fluid mass of the planet, the moon system, magnetic field and whatnot, if they're correct, it would be interesting to see where Saturn's hiding all the angular momentum.

    • Perhaps it's just Saturn's outer atmosphere that's slowing down. That could account for much of the apparent slowdown without as much angular momentum loss.

      BTW: Is there any estimate of the mass of the rings and moons compared to the mass of the earth's moon?

  • Shades of Niven (Score:2, Interesting)

    by adavies42 ( 746183 )
    Anyone else read _Integral Trees_?

  • Best picture not in list, unfortunately (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Thagg ( 9904 ) <thadbeier@gmail.com> on Saturday July 02, 2005 @09:26PM (#12971665) Journal
    Of the pictures they have to choose from, I have to go for the pic of Iapetus. It's by far the most shocking of the pictures -- the girdling ridge around Iapetus' equator is just too weird to believe.

    But, my favorite Cassini picture is this one, [nasa.gov] of the rings edge on. Here you can see a perfectly straight line, almost a quarter of a million miles long. Where else in the universe can you see such a thing?

    Thad Beier
    • I've not seen the pix of Iapetus yet, server is a bit slow from here, but the Cassini picture of the edge-on rings is absolutely incredible.

      How.... "herded" :)

      One would think that random impacts and gravitational interactions among the particles in the ring would make them much "fuzzier". Yet the ring is remarkably compact. It's not even on Saturn's equator, it's tilted.

      Makes my head hurt :)

      Cheers,
      SB

    • Beautiful pic, never saw this one before, You can even see some of the larger asteroids in the rings.
      • Those arent astroids, those are MOONS.
        Yes, the planet is really that damn huge...
        • holy shit youre right, cong tfa.

          would've assumed the moons would be out of the plane of the rings somehow. also forgot how big earths moon is compared to its primary.

          man, i suddenly feel bad for all those astronomers who have to find and count the damn things.

    • I wonder where the ring line points to, when viewed from the side? I.e. which stars lie along the line (if the line were to be continued as it is)?

      Entertain me, astronomy people :)

  • Yes, I like them... Nice T and A shots of Saturn. :-P
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • and that the planet's rotation seems to be slowing!"

    For whatever reason (sleep deprivation??) I read that and heard Spock in my head saying "the Defiant is slowing"

    God, I need to get out more.

    Androk

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