FDA Rejects Artificial Heart 207
Mad_Rain writes "Those people who fear cyborgs can rest easy. The Food and Drug Administration voted to reject Abiomed's request to sell artificial hearts to people who have suffered heart failure and exhausted their treatment options. The FDA stated that there was too little gain with too many adverse side effects in the limited trial run (17 people underwent the procedure). Although this isn't quite the same product mentioned in previous Slashdot coverage, it does seem like a setback towards replacing failing organs with fully artificial ones."
I wonder if some side effects could be (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I wonder if some side effects could be (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I wonder if some side effects could be (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I wonder if some side effects could be (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I wonder if some side effects could be (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, you generally don't have your own heart taken out for these devices. Instead it is placed alongside your normal heart.
This has the advantage if you have some cardiac reserve that even if the device fails you don't necessarily die, as your own heart may have enough strength to keep you alive till the problem is fixed.
Your heart can actually recover if given a "rest" by these devices, which is another reason to not take it out. These devices have a strong role to play in end stage heart failure when there is a prospect of recovery.
Also, this is only one of many devices being trialled. I have been involved with many assist devices and some of them are more promising than the abiomed. I think that we will be seeing alot more of them in the future. I personally* know of one person in our unit who went nearly two years on a similar device whilst awaiting a heart transplant.
Michael
* For what its worth, I am an anaesthetist who works in a heart transplant unit, and we use these things alot - the surgeons put them in at the business end, but we run the controls on the slightly less biological end of things. I guess its something like IAACA (I am a cardiac anaesthetist).
Re:I wonder if some side effects could be (Score:5, Informative)
The Abiomed device is a Total Artificial Heart (TAH). They cut out your existing left and right ventricles and install this in their place. If the device fails, you die instantly.
For what it's worth, I participated in the first calf trial of this device at Louisville.
Re:I wonder if some side effects could be (Score:3, Interesting)
The Abiomed device is a Total Artificial Heart (TAH). They cut out your existing left and right ventricles and install this in their place. If the device fails, you die instantly.
For what it's worth, I participated in the first calf trial of this device at Louisville.
Fair enough, but you can usually get a similar effect by doing a BiVAD type approach. (in the less common situation where the right heart is failing).
For
Re:I wonder if some side effects could be (Score:4, Funny)
You are a bovine?
-b
Replacing a healthy heart (Score:2)
Could a non-pulsatile version be made using an impeller that would eliminate pulse-shakes and give inhumanly steady hands for microsurgeons and snipers?
Plug your microsurgeon into a wall outlet via the transcutenous energy transmission coil and they could operate pulse free all day. Likewise
Re:I wonder if some side effects could be (Score:3, Insightful)
I support developing technology to improve health, of course; but sometimes I wonder if as a society (talking about the USA here) we shouldn't spend some time figuring out how we're going to pay for this unbelievably expensive treatment before we continue funding this kind of research. The skyrocketing cost of medical care is the biggest fiscal problem facing the US, in my opinion.
Well, here's an original idea: how about you develop the artificial heart, then the people who can afford to pay for one can
Mod parent up (Score:2)
Re:Mod parent up (Score:2)
This is mainly for pragmatic reasons: sure, public projects tend to be inefficient, but the level of waste in our medical system brought on by the bureaucratic nightmare that is the American insurance system is even worse.
Now, there's no way that a public system could pay for artificial hearts at the current price point -- but that's no reaso
Even worse... (Score:5, Interesting)
Usually you don't notice your heartbeat, or have other things going on to drown out the noise. But with an artificial heart, you aren't spending as much time in bars and so forth - you get more quiet time. The man who lived the longest compained that once the artificial heart was installed he could no longer hear the beating of his heart and it was eerie. The heartbeat is something every human knows, and many cultures have played on it in their music (trance, drums).
So yes it is spooky, but for more problematic reasons. It just needs a virtual drum machine or something...
Re:Even worse... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Even worse... (Score:2, Interesting)
The article does exist-- I remember it. The guy with the artificial heart didn't actually comment that the lack of noise, but rather that the lack of a pulsing sensation was eerie. This makes more sense anyway, because you can't really hear your heart beat under normal circumstances anyway.
Re:Even worse... (Score:2, Informative)
Hope I don't have some kind of Captain Hook syndrome going on. Eck!
Re:Even worse... (Score:2, Informative)
Either way, these d
Re:I wonder if some side effects could be (Score:5, Informative)
I find the clicking sound reassuring, it is a sign that everything is working well.
While valve and my pacemaker (which gives no sign of its presence) is comforting for me, I hear that others are disturbed as they make them feel not whole and reminds them of thier mortality.
A psychotherapist friend of mine tells me that he has a patient being driven crazy by the clicks. I feel sorry for the patient, as there is no way to avoid them.
Re:I wonder if some side effects could be (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I wonder if some side effects could be (Score:2, Insightful)
I've been wondering this generally in relation to, for example, sale of organs (illegal in US), sale of blood (illegal in US), medical marijuana (illegal in US), recreational cloning (illegal in US), certain forms of political speech (illegal in US.)
Outsourcing would seem to be the way to go.
Re:I wonder if some side effects could be (Score:2)
depends on your definition of freedom, of course. bleeding-heart, godless socialists like myself prefer to consult this organization [freedomhouse.org], or this one [aclu.org], and even this one, which was recently condemned by the executive branch of the USA as douchebags [amnesty.org].
the cold, selfish libertarian capitalists prefer this one [heritage.org], i imagine.
Re:I wonder if some side effects could be (Score:2)
Setback? (Score:5, Insightful)
How so? It just means that they'll have to improve their technology first. That doesn't seem like a setback to me.
Re:Setback? (Score:4, Informative)
Slashdot title:
FDA Rejects Artificial Heart
Washington Post title:
FDA Panel Rejects Artificial Heart
In article text:
the panel voted 7-6 that the heart's probable benefit didn't outweigh the risks
There is still hope, and writing a letter to people like Tom DeLay or George Bush might help (only in that they may get together and pressure the FDA). Kinda ironic that I might actually take their side on this sort of issue - assuming that they would support it due to their right to life/culture of life stance.
That's the Slashdot Aliasing Factor.. (Score:2)
Still a good site for discussion, however.
Headline (Score:2)
Hope??? (Score:4, Insightful)
And why would that be "hope"? Why would you place your uninformed judgement, or that of DeLay or Bush, above that of people who have studied the data, know medicine, and have thought about this long and hard?
Implanting an artificial heart in a sick patient is a painful, dangerous, and costly procedure with (apparently, according to the panel) little benefit to either the patient or research. Those are just the facts of life: as it is, the technology isn't ready. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to subject patients to it, and we can save more lives by spending the money on other procedures.
When companies come up with devices that do work, then they will get approved. And they can still implant new designs as experimental devices.
Re:Setback? (Score:2)
This is exactly the reason they would support it.
Even if you are forced to live in a coma, they would praise your living body! You know why they wanted to keep a brain dead person like Terri Schiavo alive don't you?
Every vote counts!
Re:Setback? (Score:2)
Why? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2, Informative)
Also, it may be for the safety of medical personel, as harvesting and working with such organs may be more dangerous in some situations (situations that shouldn't come up anyway, but people like to have mulitple security levels).
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Two reasons
- Safety of the people and equipment that will come into contact with the infected blood during the procedure.
- There's more than one strain of HIV. Having two of them is worse than having one.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
You are right - if you only have one option: DEATH - then you should be able to take any chance at avoiding death you want. I mean, heart surgery is pretty common today. When
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
In this case, it's precisely what we're talking about. Abiomed was applying for a "humanitarian device exemption", to be used only in cases where the person had less than a month to live. They weren't expecting you to live long on it; just long enough to say a few extra months of goodbyes.
They were rejected anyway. The numbers were just too much against them. Two people out of 17 died almost immediately.
The rejection was narrow,
Submitter didn't read TFA (Score:2)
I don't see the problem if someone makes a conscious decision to use this or any other device. If some people want the right to die, then others should have the right to live.I argue constantly with my friend who is fresh out of medical school (and pretty close to Kevorkian's views medically/politically speaking) - but he always seems to ar
Re:Submitter didn't read TFA (Score:2)
It's true that they haven't rejected it yet. They usually take the advice of the committee; but they rejected the committee's advice on Plan B a few months ago, so who knows? Besides, with a 7-6-1 committee decision, it was hardly a strong recommendation against (especially since I'
Re:Submitter didn't read TFA (Score:2)
There needs to be a "legitimate experimental" category, where the FDA says that a treatment probably won't help you, but there's a genuine chance it could, and even if it doesn't the experiment will benefit the next guy.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
They wouldn't be doing much of that with a bad heart, would they?
Re:Why? (Score:2)
I just hope someone appeals to whatever part of his brain that produces rhetoric...
I guess you should write to Karl Rove?
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Also, I just don't see why we should
Re:fine. Make a THC patch... (Score:2)
As you alude to, its not just the THC, its the whole combination of cannabinoids that have the effect. It is difficult to replicate that. Perhaps marijuana well tested for its potency could be vaporized. That way, a patient could weigh out a certain amount of plant matter and know with a fairly could certainty how much THC and other cannabinoids it contains
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Okay...and how would your one cardinal case of harm being done by an addict NOT be alleviated by legalization? I'm not saying I agree or disa
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Lots of lawsuits from people who "didn't fully comprehend all the risks", hospitals, doctors, procedures getting the labeled as killers, and having bad track records. Malpractice for relatively safe procedures is astronomical. No one wants to deal with those doctors (aka "so, 75% of your surgeries end up in death, why should I work with you?").
Money. That's a lot of money in the surgery for a small chance of living.
This isn't so much people banning it though. Believe me, there's tons of new, exciting, dangerous surgeries abound. The test for this heart had 17 patients with those types of risks. There's lots of cutting edge research looking for people in the exact scenario you describe, and they usually get some for of radical new treatment. In this case, the FDA just decided that this radical new treatment hadn't matured enough yet. So, there will be a couple more studies where people can get artificial hearts if they really need them.
Basically, the FDA doesn't like to make radical treatments mainstream. It prefers to keep them in the research wings where people who need them can get them, but to keep mainstream procedures as safe and mundane as possible.
Re:Why? (don't ask a stupid question....) (Score:2, Insightful)
Answer: All of it.
Re:Why? (don't ask a stupid question....) (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Actually, the decision is based on cost per year of life saved. The magic figure in the US is about $50000 per year of life saved. If it costs more than this its much less likely to get approval. Th
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
I am not saying the FDA isn't slow. However, when it comes to life and death your options really open up. If you have tried all the approved treatments then generally you just move on to the 'studies' and 'trails'. In other words, you move onto the very high risk treatment
simple (Score:2)
We are all faced with "certainty of death". There are some tradeoffs we can make between comfort and quantity, but just because you are willing to accept an extreme amount of discomfort (think "medieval torture") for a small increase in quantity doesn't mean that that's the decision society has to bless or pay for.
Furthermore, these devices are hugely expensive. The $500k that are spent to extend the life of 10% of the recipients by 6 months need
Re:Why? (Score:2)
HAHAHAHA... as a medical student, I can tell that you're either a) a lawyer/law student or b) grossly misinformed. Doctors can be sued for ANYTHING that goes wrong. Yes: ANYTHING. There are women suing OB/GYNs because their baby is born addicted to crack, and the doctor only "told" them to stop smoking it - so, it's the doctors fault the baby's brain is messed up. And if a patient gets operated on, and her knee "hurts" after, the "emotion
Re:The FDA isn't stupid... (Score:2)
Why would someone who isn't staring death in the face need a heart transplant ?
no heart (Score:2, Funny)
Most of the recipients in really bad shape (Score:3, Interesting)
Life prolonging (Score:2, Informative)
It costs $250,000 and at best it gives the patients a few months extra life. I believe it should be approved, but only if the patient wants to take the risk and pay for it.
Not such a bad thing... (Score:4, Insightful)
The right lesson to learn from thalidomide (Score:2)
Re:Not such a bad thing... (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem with comparing this to an "innocent until proven guilty" legal system is that with such a legal system the government is refraining from doing harm. In the case of the FDA their are interfering in private choices about medical care and killing more people than they save.
Re:Not such a bad thing... (Score:2)
This is a ridiculous statement, because there's no reasonable way to evaluate its truth. The FDA delays good drugs, but it also filters out the bad ones. There's no way to differentiate between good and bad without doing sufficient studies. Patients and doctors making "private choices" without enough trials are making uninformed, dangerous choices.
I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired of the Libertarian "abolish the FDA" mantra.
Re:Not such a bad thing... (Score:2)
If I had the chance to either A. die, or B. take a radically new therapy that WILL cure my ailment but whose side effects are not known, I'm taking choice B. If the chemo drugs that cured my cancer caused my kidneys to fail, I'd rather be going to dialysis three times a week than be dead.
"Dangerous" is subjective. You might find rolling a car dangerous, I'd find it a thrill.
Re:Not such a bad thing... (Score:2)
Sheesh, people and their morbid fear of death.
Re:Not such a bad thing... (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure there is. You take the drugs that were approved ealier in the EU. Figure out how many the bad ones would have killed in the US had they been approved at the same time, then figure out how many the good ones would have saved had they been approved at the same time, then calculate the difference. It's been done, and I'm afraid the result is that the FDA is one of the leading causes of death in the US (same ball park as automobile accidents - tens of thousands of people a year).
Re:Not such a bad thing... (Score:2)
Medical Research 101: You can't compare the effects of 2 drugs on 2 different populations. Take a homogeneous population of sweeden, with very similar eating habits, genetic patterns, weather, environment, water sources, pollu
Re:Not such a bad thing... (Score:2)
Pfft - nonsense. If that were true it would be impossible to do drug trials at all.
I agree that such studies can be done (using european data), but NO respectible peer-review journal would take up a study like the one you suggested.
Slashdot is peer reviewed, but not respectable, so I figured I could leave out some of the details.
Study methodology (Score:3, Interesting)
In terms of diets and exercise habits, I think the differences are small enough - both EU and USA are industrial countries with similar culture (lots of mutual influences).
I guess doing such a study is easier than you suggest.
Re:Not such a bad thing... (Score:3, Interesting)
Thalidomide (Score:2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meniere's_disease [wikipedia.org]
Re:Not such a bad thing... (Score:2)
Re:Not such a bad thing... (Score:2)
Thalidomide was never actually denied approval, though. No decision had been made, and the need for one was pre-empted by the occurance of numerous birth defects in Europe.
Re:Not such a bad thing... (Score:3, Insightful)
I think that's more myth than fact. There are many drugs and devices available in the US that are banned or restricted in Europe. Each country just seems to have its own set of hangups about what it permits and what it doesn't permit.
If the US actually were stricter, it's also unclear that that would be a good thing. In many cases, the decision should be up to the doctor and patient.
Re:Not such a bad thing... (Score:2)
AbioCor Heart: Time Invention of the Year (2001) (Score:3, Informative)
Nonetheless, the real answer to the organ replacement problem is goading adult stem cells into growing a human heart. It would not suffer the negative effects of rejection (caused by donor hearts) and blood clots (caused by mechanical hearts).
Re:AbioCor Heart: Time Invention of the Year (2001 (Score:2)
Ah! (Score:2, Funny)
I was wondering why he was built like a toaster except for the gizzards.
- This was a manually created sig. Take THAT robot overlords. -
Cyborgs (Score:2)
Motoko Kusinagi [www14.big.jp] is unimpressed with these pathetic, childish attempts at so-called "cyborg" technology.
where's my liver (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Not the only device... (Score:2)
Linke any other mechanical device... (Score:2)
Just don't... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Just don't... (Score:2)
Hardly a setback (Score:2)
Still, I can't wait until the world of shadowrun, at least the tech stuff.
Exausted all other options? (Score:2)
I can see an issue if its NOT the last resort. But if this is the last and only way to stay alive, i dont think the FDA has any right to say no.
Besides, if they wont approve it, another country will. And we miss out on yet another medical advancement..
A setback (Score:2)
I wouldn't look at it as a setback. A bigger setback would be hundreds of people dying from heart implants that weren't quite ready for the market, and a public afraid to use future implants as a result.
I'll tell you why it failed to pass the FDA... (Score:4, Interesting)
sufferers... are likely to die within a month
I am a biomedical engineer for Cardiology at a top 25 hospital in the US, and a trained LVAS engineer for the WorldHeart Novacor [worldheart.com] LVAS system. We see 3-4 implants a year with this system*. The patients who are referred for implant come in literally with one foot over the threshold of death. It's amazing any of them survive the surgery at all. Doctors are scared to death of the devices. We have had attendings refuse to admit a patient once they learned the patient had a LVAD. Yes, some of the side effects can be severe. You have about as great a chance of dieing from a stroke caused by a massive clot in the device as you do of heart failure, but the reason to take that risk is quality of life. This man here [worldheart.com] is one of our patients. He has been on pump for four years this month. That's four years of quality life, enjoying his grand- and great grandkids. Hell, we have photos of him putting a roof on his barn while standing in the front end loader on his tractor. Our other patients go back to work, or at least can live on their own in their home, without 24/7 nursing care or constant hospital stays like patients who do not get a pump.
These devices are mostly used for "bridge to transplant" meaning it is used to keep them alive and healthy until hopefully they get a heart transplant. Unfortunately there are like 2,000 donor hearts a year and 50,000 people who need one. So many of these companies are aiming to be certified "destination therapy" which means the person gets a pump and that's it. If/when it wears out, they get a replacement, but they won't get a donor heart. Which is fine, because the patients who get donor hearts are back constantly for biopsies and caths to check that their donor heart is healthy (since only arteries/veins get connected between the person and donor heart and not nerves, they can't feel chest pain if they have a heart attack) and are on anti-rejection medication regimens.
* - Our hospital also does the Abiomed AB5000 and Thoratec HeartMate, but these are short term (days to weeks) support devices where the patient does not leave the hospital and are supported by the Perfusion team (the people who run the heart/lung bypass machines during surgery). The Abiomed device sits on the freakin' outside of your body and it's clear so you watch your own blood pump through it. It's actually clear so the clinician can look for a "flash" which is when the device completely empties of blood after a stroke and you see the white membrane inside. The console used during surgery is roughly the size of a dishwasher and the "travel console" is like a piece of carryon luggage. The Thoratec HeartMate I is approved for destination therapy, but we don't use it as such. Their HeartMate II is going into clinical trial, and is totally implantable. Hopefully it will pass the FDA's approval for destination therapy and we can save 48,000 lives a year...
Conundrum (Score:2)
Like avoiding death?
with too many adverse side effects.
Like, er, death?
Additional information on tests done to heart. (Score:2)
yes... (Score:2)
Commence comments stating, "of course not, it ran Windows!"
Adverse Effects? (Score:2)
Why the FDA? (Score:2)
Or, for that matter, how we ever allowed a single organization to both regulate distribution of broadcast frequencies *and* broadcast content? (FCC)
Solomon Kevin Chang
I think the decision is probably reasonable (Score:2)
Is a simple mechanical explanation of their mediocre results applicable? Put a new pump in a rotten circulatory system and some pipes are certain to explode into strokes? If so, the whole concept really does need refinement. It could be argued that there are otherwise healthy people who could benefit but how many people with a stake through their heart survive long enough to do the switch?
I'm sure there are
Re:back to the drawing baord (Score:2)
in this case I must agree with teh FDA panel that the risk's realy don't outwiegh the benifit.(sic)
Nice of the FDA to make that decision for me. I'd rather do my own risk/benefit analysis, thanks.Re:But what about Picard? (Score:2)
Go read... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Fuck You FDA (Score:2)
In either case, the surgery will cost you more money, either in higher premiums or higher taxes, whether you ever need it or not. Wouldn't it be nice if it worked more than half the time, or prolonged life for more than a year?
The fact is that