Changing Planet Revealed In Atlas 150
ring writes "The United Nations Environmental Programme (Unep) has released a new atlas 'One Planet Many People: Atlas of our Changing Environment', to mark World Environment Day (WED). It compares and contrasts spectacular satellite images of the past few decades with contemporary ones." From the BBC article: "Among the transformations highlighted in the atlas are the huge growth of greenhouses in southern Spain, the rapid rise of shrimp farming in Asia and Latin America and the emergence of a giant, shadow puppet-shaped peninsula at the mouth of the Yellow River that has built up through transportation of sediment in the waters."
Images? (Score:3)
Re:Images? (Score:2, Informative)
Scroll about halfway down. There's a map showing the dramatic REforestation here in the united States.
Enviromentalists tend to 'overlook' these sorts of images.
Re:Images? (Score:3)
Doubtful... Results like that are what enviromentalists are working for. If no one draws attention to environmental problems, there are not going to be any solutions.
I'm sure there are many satellite images of remote areas that haven't changed in the last 30 years, but that doesn't mean that looking at the changes (good or bad) isn't important.
Re:Images? (Score:3, Insightful)
For those who haven't, it shows tons of virgin forest spread over the US in 1620 and 1850, then a dramatic reduction by 1920, and recently some regrowth, but still only perhaps a quarter of what was here pre-massive deforestation in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
This is a great argument for the work of environmentalists.
Re:Images? (Score:2)
Huh? Where did they find satellite images from 1620, 1850 and 1920?
Inquiring minds want to know.
(Could they have been made by the Vogon survey crew?)
Re:Images? (Score:2)
Re:Images? (Score:2)
Your remark about environmentalists 'tending to "overlook" these images' is bullshit.
As you well knew when you posted it, anonymously, and cowardly.
- sgage (forest ecologist)
Re:Images? (Score:2)
Re:Images? (Score:1, Insightful)
The environment doesn't need humans, but humans need the environment.
Environmentalism, then is misnamed, because saving the environment is just a means to the actual end: saving humanity. Any "people-first" right-winger should figure that out someday.
Re:Images? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Images? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Images? (Score:2)
Re:Images? (Score:1)
http://www.earthprint.com/show.htm??url=http://www
learn more here...
http://www.unep.org/Documents.Multilingual/Default
Re:Images? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:UNAmerican (Score:1)
Re:UNAmerican (Score:1, Troll)
Re:UNAmerican (Score:1, Troll)
40% Troll
40% Insightful
20% Flamebait
Finally a Troll mod that's right on. But what about "Informative", or "Funny"?
Re:UNAmerican (Score:1, Troll)
Re:UNAmerican (Score:1, Troll)
- Curious George [rr.com]
Re:UNAmerican (Score:1, Troll)
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:1, Interesting)
I think that pretty much sums up your point. There will never be enough "good enough" evidence to convince you that that sustained, unlimited development is a pipe dream and that we must aim at zero growth at some point. After all, unlimited growth is the fundamental doctrine of the libertarian faith.
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:2, Interesting)
Though a libertarian would know that population growth slows as economic freedom and prosperity grow.
A libertarian would also know that care for the environment increases as prosperity grows. And that more efficient farming and GMO plants will decrease the water and landspace needs for a population. Smaller farms providing more food than traditional farming means more land goes back to a natural state.
I'd like to see those same satellite
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:1)
With appropriate use of technogoloy and a more selfless economy, unlimited growth is feasable and not all that difficult. From what we know so far, the universe is pretty big. I see no reason why we can't infest the galaxy at least. It might take a while, but we have up to 4 or 5 billion years to work out the details. Note: IANAL (I am not a libertarian...well... social yes, economic no)
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:1)
Well, yes. To paraphrase the South Park underpant gnomes' plan: 1) Obtain appropriate technology, 2) ???, 3) Unlimited growth!!
The fundamental problem is that sustainable unlimited growth is physically impossible in the nature. Yes, as one AC already pointed out in this thread, there is cancer, but I am not sure you want to use that as a model of a sustained unlimited system as it kil
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:1)
Yes, we are a "cancer" or "virus". If we're good at it, we try to keep the host alive as long as possible. And yes, the host will eventually die. We just move on to the next host. I'm not concerned about economics. That's an animal thing. I'm talking about life. We don't need economics to live. We just need life. By the time w
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:1)
Ok. Fine and dandy, but it sure sounds a lot like the stage 2 in my previous post. Where's the technology? Where are the plans?
Well, as human beings, I like to think that we can work "beyond" nature.
Quite frankly, as a physicist I don't know what you mean by "working beyond nature". You can't break the laws of nature. The only thing you try is to work around the limitations, but even t
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:1)
We're still in stage one.
Where's the technology? Where are the plans?
In stage 2. What's the rush? We'll get there...if we do it right and develope sustainable lifestyles.
Quite frankly, as a physicist I don't know what you mean by "working beyond nature". You can't break the laws of nature.
Not trying to. But I am thinking beyond the planet. And beyond my lifetime. By working beyond nature, I mean stop acting like anim
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:1)
Yes, the critical point has not been reached yet but it is time to slow down a bit. Why now and not later? It is better to err on the side of caution -- just like one should slow down from 65 when approaching a tight turn.
In fact, I don't see why I should make a case for slowing down and developing more sustainable technologies. The burden of proof should be on you if you wish to continue on this same, unsustainable path. Can you sa
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:3, Interesting)
We passed the point of fully "sustainable" around 1850 or so - every year after that we produced more waste products that can be broken down by natural processes in a year. I'm not talking about CO2 or iPods here - I'm talking about vegetable matter and human waste. Heat is another consideration as well - our current use of energy produces significant
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Same with you! (Score:2)
You need to expand industry, housing, and food production faster than the population expands. All this expansion r
There's plenty of space left - it's how we use it. (Score:2)
So we have absolutely plenty of space left on Earth; the question is how well we use it. Clearly with the current problems of the world, we're not doing so efficiently.
Re:Same with you! (Score:3, Interesting)
All of the cities in India that have a Coke plant blame part of their water shortage on Coke.
Coke in India has toxins in it.
Coke's defence is, well it is a drought, and the USDA doesn't have a problem with what we are selling. They have never challenged (to the best of my research) the fact that their is lead in the soft drinks, just the fact that it is unsafe
Coke is
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:2)
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:3, Informative)
"I want to see this happening on a global scale"
This shows a fundamental lack of understanding.
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:5, Insightful)
Look at the basic facts; we are on a planet with finite resources. World population is growing, and human consumption of resources is growing.
Long term, the math doesn't work out. It's not a case of if we screw up this planet, it's a case of when, and more people equals acceleration towards that point, more space used, more fuels used, more products consumed.
The main problem is that as a planet, we all have to act to make it a sustainable environment. This means actually reducing what we use, not slowing down, or keeping it the same, but actually reducing the amount of resources we use. If one country *cough* decides to ignore this fact, it undermines the point of the exercise.
As far as your comment about hippies who want the developing countries to starve to death; well, they already do starve. But if world poverty was wiped out tomorrow the world over, the developed world would have to change its consumptive habits overnight for the world to sustain itself.
At the end of the day, everything on this planet is not okay, and all of our eggs are in one basket.
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:1)
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:1)
Buckminster Fuller and other have successfully pointed out that as we progress, we can always do more with less. So consumption doesn't necessarily have to be directly related to population growth. More and more evidence is surfacing that all our problems with "limited" resources is political, not natural in any way. Consumption by itself is not a problem. The real problem come from those who want those resources exclusively for th
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:2)
<sarcasm>Yeah, no hard evidence needed; it is obvious if we use common sense. And almost everybody says so, so it must be true even if never proven true. </sarcasm>
Seriously, when people are expressing scepticism, other people try to muzzle the sceptics. What has happened to the academic freedom of expression and development of science through critique and open debate? When it comes to the global environment it seems that critique is muzzled inst
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:2)
Do you realize that you just wrote that just one person not acting will prevent making a sustainable environment?
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:2)
Yep. That's why simply sending gigatons of grain is not ever going to work. It will only create a dependant welfare state. Better to raise those people to a higher technological and informational level so they can also enjoy higher production, lower birth rates and greater personal freedom.
You'd be for that, wouldn't you?
At the
Re:Stop playing a fear-mongering victim and start (Score:2)
Even if we had the technology to utilise that mass as you are clearly thinking, the resources are obviously limited by the amount of mass available.
The laws of physics have not disappeared, and so there is no such thing as "unlimited resources".
Re:It's near performance already (Score:1)
Increasing wealth in places like China is the reason for a lot of the environmental destruction we are seeing now.
The world simply can't support 6.5 billion people living at 1st world standards. So, in the long run, more humans = lower standard of living for everyone.
Re:It's near performance already (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not enough evidence (Score:2)
As for your suggestions...
a) Do you have any idea the amount of water you would have to pump up hill?
b) Coastal water's are dying or dead and the ocean is not looking healthy either.
c) I'm not affraid of "hippies" but I am affraid of people who think you can purchase a replacement rainforest once it has gone. Leaving the mess to "clean up after we get
Re:Not enough evidence (for NEO con's) (Score:2)
Capitalism is a better answer than communism. Why? We have observe that capitalism works better than communism in the real world with real people. Socialism is demonstrating the same end result as communism right now.
Now, it won't answer questions along the lines of "what is 2 + 2", but I don't think that's what you meant.
Your thir
Whoa... (Score:2)
I think change is the result of mankind (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:I think change is the result of mankind (Score:1)
Re:I think change is the result of mankind (Score:2)
There is massive evidence of huge climate changes [scotese.com] before Homo Sapiens emerged, with temperature changes at least ten times as high as has been observed though the last hundred years.
But life itself has changed our planet. Before life became established on Earth, and even for some one or two billion years afterwards, the air contained no free oxygen [palaeos.com], but life changed this as photosynthesis produces oxygen as a waste product. Ironically, oxygen was poisonous to life at that time [absoluteastronomy.com], but life e
Re:I think change is the result of mankind (Score:2)
The Vostok Ice core evidence [ornl.gov] begs to differ. Study some geology and you will see there is only one constant - change. The thing that geology tells us is that the steady state is a fleeting dream upon which we build our fleeting civilisations. There is statibility, but it is a "dynamic" stability. The stability of the earth is as a result of the biosphere managing to balance the atmospheric gases so that system fluctuations eventually are corrected. You are correct in that now anthopogenic (yes we are really
Re:I think change is the result of mankind (Score:2)
And, no i'm not a moron and actually believe this to be true.
Re:I think change is the result of mankind (Score:2)
Re:I think change is the result of mankind (Score:2)
Re:Just recent decades is useless (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Just recent decades is useless (Score:2)
ancient/modern atlas (Score:2)
Agreed -- an ancient/modern atlas would be instructive and interesting.
Perhaps best implemented as a digital atlas? Flash animation, something like that, with a slider for timeline so you can cruise the centuries?
-kgj
Re:Just recent decades is useless (Score:2)
"Does the atlas show the climate changes from the last few 1000 years?"
A - No, why don't you support them by adding it.
"Does it show what things looked like when you could grow olives in the UK?"
A - No, why don't you post some snaps from that time to help them out.
"Does it show that Hastings was much much closer to the shore in 1066 than it is now?"
A - As per another post, satellite photos in 1066? Acurate measurement in pac
Re:Just recent decades is useless (Score:2)
sure, shrimp farms and sediment... (Score:2)
But can it tell that my lawn service came today?
Re:sure, shrimp farms and sediment... (Score:2)
Re:sure, shrimp farms and sediment... (Score:2)
It's called TruGreen ChemLawn and they make millions of dollars each year off this kind of stupidity.
http://www.trugreen.com/ [trugreen.com]
Lemna (Score:4, Interesting)
I wish they could visit our lake. Last year it had a huge crop of lemna, shown here [venezolano.web.ve].
What you see is not a tennis court but a big piece of the lake being covered in the thing. This lake is lake maracaibo in venezuela.
I can't be the only one (Score:2)
/spends far too much time on the internet
Distorted Picture (Score:3, Interesting)
It can be a little tough to find good data given all the bullshit flying around but here's a map that shows the amount of forest land in the US from 1620 onwards:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/1605/gg96rpt/chap7.ht
The interesting things is that we are see a dramatic resurgence of forest land here in the US. A big part of the reason, apparently, is more efficient farming practices which have allowed us to restore a lot of farmland back to forests. Here's a map showing the trends from 1982 to 1997:
http://www.ers.usda.gov/Briefing/LandUse/Gallery/
A move to more densley packed cities is also a contributing factor to reforestation.
Article such as the one Zonk cited are a favorite of the hard left environmental movement. These 'studies' cherry pick data to paint an alarmist picture. The media usually swallow these article whole with little crtical thought. In the end, these distorted pictures don't do anything to help real environmental progress.
Re:Distorted Picture (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Distorted Picture (Score:2)
Re:Distorted Picture (Score:2)
Old Growth Forests = Large Trees (like sequoias [red woods]). Those types of trees keep undergrowth (bushes, grass, etc) from forming. No undergrowth means no deer or anything else of similar size. Old growth forests are nice, but have almost no plant life. The suck for biodiversity. I'd prefer softwood forests, personally. Generally has many smaller plants an
Re:Distorted Picture (Score:1)
Re:Distorted Picture (Score:1)
Re:Distorted Picture (Score:2)
"but an old growth forest is irreplaceable." hmm that looks like a moral judgement to me
Scientifically, irreplaceable means that the habitat, once lost cannot be replaced. For which there is a lot of evidence. At its simplest it would take 180 years for the canopy to reform, and this would only happen if the land was managed with habitat recreation in mind. What is more likely is that the land will be managed as commercial forestry with perhaps a 100 year cycle, never reaching the same level of biodiver
Re:Distorted Picture (Score:1, Interesting)
Here in Wisconsin we actually have more forest land than we did before the arrival of European immigrants, mostly because what had been prarie was carefully maintained by the Indians, and when farmers moved in they stopped the periodic fires th
Re:Distorted Picture (Score:2)
Re:Distorted Picture (Score:2)
A big part of the reason, apparently, is more efficient farming practices which have allowed us to restore a lot of farmland back to forests
I don't know about the hard left environmentalists or better farming, but from what I know we have the Civilian Conservation Corp (CCC/3C) [cccalumni.org] to thank for a chunk of the reforestation. It was part of the "New Deal" from back during the depression. In 9 years they planted 3 bill
Poor Iraqis (Score:2)
All that good Rosie luvin gone. Tragic.
Re:Poor Iraqis (Score:2, Troll)
Actually, BBC dearest, Saddam ordered the estuary and the marshes to be dried up:
http://www.harvard-magazine.com/on-line/010538.htm l [harvard-magazine.com]
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/front/5981 406.htm [philly.com]
http://www.waterconserve.info/articles/reader.asp? linkid=22888 [waterconserve.info]
http://www.iraqfoundation.org/projects/edenagain/2 003/ajan/27_wetlands.html [iraqfoundation.org]
The BBC makes it sound as if the palms accidentally died as a result of war, wh
Poor Logic. (Score:2)
Here is a list of BBC articles [bbc.co.uk] concerning the marshes, even the oldest article
Re:Poor Iraqis (Score:2)
See http://www.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/TIV_imp_IRQ _70-04.pdf [sipri.org] for the truth. Notice where the US is on the list.
Viewing more images (Score:4, Informative)
It'd be a great e-book... (Score:1)
Re:It'd be a great e-book... (Score:2)
and what's wrong with the greenhouses (other than the fact that the s
Re:It'd be a great e-book... (Score:1)
Rarely do you see a flat roofed greenhouse. I bet you're mostly seeing sunlight glare off of the roof.
The real link (Score:2)
The actual book (full content for both screen and printer resolutions) is here [unep.net]
Magic Mushrooms (Score:1)
Science as the Ultimate Hero (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe the point to be highlighted is one of judgement. If you're crossing a rope bridge, over an abyss, and, you think it's showing signs of giving way, do you sprint for the other side or do you go gingerly, testing as you go, looking for more proof of what's happening? In the first world, the infrastructure that maintains our lifestyle is not ruggedly robust, or, highly redundant. Redundancy as a concept is, historically, only yesterday's news. The internet is an example of an infrastructure built with redundancy in mind. So, if the biosphere is showing signs of change, do we hope for benign change and/or for science to sprint to the rescue? Sir Francis Bacon [utm.edu], one of the fathers of deductive reasoning, suggested we had to wrest the secrets of life from nature, like a mythological hero wresting a prize from some monster. I think many, maybe all of us, are subject to living, in part, in the heroic age, and, I think that is the greatest danger. The ancient Greeks fostered the idea of hubris as one of mankind's greatest weaknesses. The philosophy of the heroic age doesn't hold in an indeterminate universe and science shouldn't be seen as the ultimate big stick that will beat back the threats of nature.
Life, as we know it, is characterzed as an non-equilibrium, open-system. The sun rains down ~10^24 calories per year on the biosphere. Carbon based life forms, in the perfect mileu of water, harness this energy in various ways.But it's a system of systems and subject, as much as we know, to Systems Theory [wikipedia.org]. If we know change is in the works do we risk positive feedback [wikipedia.org] and trust in science to carry us past any threat?
There is a strong consensus that climate change is happening. [bbc.co.uk] Will climate change force a parameter shift that will invite a runaway state? The concept of key species tells us that specific species are necessary to maintaining the ecology of an eco niche. Could climate change destroy key species and cause collapse of ecosystems. This brings on the old bogey man of the domino effect.
Change is inevitable, so it's really a matter of placing your bet on science as the ultimate super hero, or, do we begin to exercise caution now to mitigate against change. After all there's no place like home.
Re:Science as the Ultimate Hero (Score:2)
Perhaps you don't understand what science is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method/ [wikipedia.org]
Re:Science as the Ultimate Hero (Score:2)
Uhmmm... yes and no. The study of epistemology has guided my readings since grade school. I've tried to understand the philosophical idea of epistemology [wikipedia.org], in terms of understanding knowledge, and epistemology as defined as the methodology of science. Generally, I started out in grade school with B. Russell's "History of Western Philosopy", and went on from there. In terms of the methodology of science I relied alot on Medawar and Popper, especially Popper's
Re:Science as the Ultimate Hero (Score:2)
The bridge analogy is a good one, I think we have two minority extreme's. One is rushing forward the other back, meanwhile most of us are "inching" or just hanging on somewhere in the middle, hoping that things won't get worse. I think the western world's "depression epidemic" is in part because
The problem lies deeper (Score:3, Insightful)
I am wanting to preserve some 50 square KM, yes KM of forrest down in the chaco Paraguay.
However everyone calls me a nut.
The problem is that it is almost impossible to control. to get there is a 2 to 3 day travel. up and down a week.
It is not people in paraguay cutting there but bolivians and yes your beloved argentinians stealing the trees. As they have good roads on the other side of the borders. (check the maps)
A big problem is that the b
Re:The problem lies deeper (Score:1)
But then it would not be preserved.
I think myself the only way to preserve forest is to make them pay for them selves
ie eco tourism. greenhous reduction rights, or prodcution forest.
I have seen big massive areas of production forest in brasil (from Foz down to the coast), sadly enough it is all pine pine and pine use
Re:The problem lies deeper (Score:1)
Re:The problem lies deeper (Score:1)
There is legal enforcement of the properties. The problem is that physical enforcement is most of the time more convincing and faster.
The reason that unused land can be reclaimed is that during the dictatorship many properties where just given away. If those properties are used and tax for them is paid the government leaves them alone.
However if tax is not paid and someone else is living there for 5 years and he is willing to pay the tax, then the property moves to the new person
Re:Shame on Brazil and Paraguay (Score:2)
Simpsons... (Score:2)
Re:Iraq (Score:2)