NASA's Mars Polar Lander Found at Last? 152
Ant wrote in to mention that the Sky and Telescope is running a story (with photographs and other images) that NASA's Mars Polar Lander (MPL) may have been found. From the article: "On December 9, 1999, it was supposed to touch down near the red planet's south pole but disappeared after entering the Martian atmosphere without a trace. 5.5 years later, scientists think they may have finally located the lander's wreckage and confirmed what went wrong with the mission...The search for Mars Polar Lander was hampered by inexperience: the team didn't know what a parachute should look like or how the ground would be disturbed by the landing rockets. Lessons learned from observations of the Mars Exploration Rover landing sites helped team members identify what they think are the parachute, the rocket-blast zone, and ultimately the lander itself."
Late Breaking News: (Score:5, Funny)
Today the Council disclosed the news that the repulsive beings inhabiting the blue planet third from our star have located the wreckage of one of their invading spacecraft near our planet's southern pole.
Strangely enough, their newscasts mentioned nothing of the warning plaque errected alongside the downed invader.
Some scientists theorize that the translation of our warning into their bestial language was imperfect, while others maintain that the plaque is simply too small to be imaged properly with their feeble, childish astronomical instruments.
K'Breel, speaker for the Council, voiced another, more pesimistic theory:
Re:Late Breaking News: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Late Breaking News: (Score:2)
Re:Late Breaking News: (Score:2)
moo3 (Score:1)
Re:moo3 (Score:1)
http://www.galciv.com/ [galciv.com]
There is even a sequel being produced:
http://www.galciv2.com/ [galciv2.com]
Re:moo3 (Score:1)
Re:Late Breaking News: (Score:3, Funny)
Fiendishly clever? Obviously, those Martians aren't nearly as smart as they think they are...
Re:Late Breaking News: (Score:2)
Re:Late Breaking News: (Score:2)
A proposal (Score:5, Funny)
Mars Polar Plummeter
and call it a "smashing success"!
Re: A Modest Proposal (Score:4, Funny)
Re:A proposal (Score:4, Funny)
Re:A proposal (Score:5, Informative)
Re:A proposal (Score:1)
Before it gets Slashdotted... (Score:5, Informative)
Here's the text of the article:
Re:Before it gets Slashdotted... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Before it gets Slashdotted... (Score:1)
Re:Before it gets Slashdotted... (Score:1)
Case not closed (Score:1)
I'd say the case is closed when it's back on earth. It belongs in a museum!
Re:Before it gets Slashdotted... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Before it gets Slashdotted... (Score:1)
Here's the photo in case of Slashdotting (Score:5, Funny)
Enlarged: o
Re:Here's the photo in case of Slashdotting (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Here's the photo in case of Slashdotting (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps my eyesight is just bad, but I wouldn't dare to call this data conclusive. Try again with a better resolution.
Better Photo (Score:3, Funny)
(it did crash after all!)
Re:Here's the photo in case of Slashdotting (Score:2)
Re:Here's the photo in case of Slashdotting (Score:1)
Re:Here's the photo in case of Slashdotting (Score:2)
High-Def picture:
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
Oblig. (Score:3, Funny)
Professor Farnsworth: It's the same way on Earth.
dibs (Score:2, Interesting)
abandoned at sea, if you recover, it's yours
abandoned on land, on your property, it's yours
abandoned on the side of the road on trash day, it's yours. this how where I get all my lawn equipment. mower, weedwhacker, seed spreader, wheel barrow. other stuff too, radio, tv, computer, coffee pot, couch, lawn chairs, hammock, pots and pans, dishes, building materials,
abandoned on public property? I don't know.around here, aban
Re:dibs (Score:3, Interesting)
When you obtained your abandoned lawn mower from the roadside, was it by some coincidence still running and a lawn only partially cut?
Re:dibs (Score:3, Informative)
abandoned at sea, if you recover, it's yours
Not true. Under international maritime law, abandoned at sea, if you recover, the original owner (who may now be an insurance company) must be given the opportunity to reclaim it on payment of reasonable (set by an admiralty court) expenses to you.
In any case government property remains government property, and you must have that governments permission before attempting salvage operations. See the fun Curt Newport had recovering a sunk Mercury capsule recent
Re:dibs (Score:2)
Re:Can't Wait (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Can't Wait (Score:1, Flamebait)
So's invading countries that haven't attacked you. No government really gives a damn about what the UN thinks, unless it's acting in their favor.
Re:Can't Wait (Score:4, Informative)
In reality, it means that whoever gets there first (be it a nation-state sponsored colony or private entity) can do pretty much do whatever they see fit once they are there.
Re:Can't Wait (Score:2)
Re:Can't Wait (Score:5, Interesting)
Under international law (specificly the treaty of London, 1600) a settlement, colony, or claim is only valid if the country in question has the means in palce to defend it.
In other words, should China (which didn't sign that whole "won't claim space" treaty) land on the Moon and claim it for China, it won't be recognised as Chinese property unless they bring along some effective means of keeping other people off of it.
Functionaly this leads to an anarchical environment. Wasn't such a bad idea in the 1600s, but when you're talking about the idea of carpet nuking someone's moon base into smoking oblivion to invalidate their claim to the place... well... things are different.
Re:Can't Wait (Score:2)
Really, it's not much different from how things are on Earth...
So... the best way to own a piece of martian scenery is to organize an expedition, land there and then proclaim Republic of Mars (or kingdom, or whatever) and get your land granted by the new govt.
Re:Can't Wait (Score:2)
Did the Chinese sing that one too? Because, quite frankly, following it up with ...
Re:Can't Wait (Score:2)
won't be recognised as Chinese property unless they bring along some effective means of keeping other people off of it.
Of course since the resources that we can put on the moon are limited, a pistol might just qualify. When everyone is in a spacesuit, a gunshot anywhere might be fatal. I'm discounting missile defense since no country has the ability (beyond experimental/theoretical) to defend against anything that is delivered by an ICBM.
Re:Can't Wait (Score:2, Funny)
Your probe is on my land. You have 30 days to retrieve before I claim it has my personal property.
This notice has been made public through the New Mars Post newspaper.
Sincerely,
Marvin the Martian
Re:Can't Wait (Score:2)
Re:Can't Wait (Score:1)
Re:Can't Wait (Score:1)
Re:Can't Wait (Score:1)
Reason Found (Score:1, Funny)
Obligatory Link to the Lobbing Scorecard (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Obligatory Link to the Lobbing Scorecard (Score:2)
Re:Obligatory Link to the Lobbing Scorecard (Score:1)
They do. 20:15 | 2003 Jun 02 17:45:00 | Mars Express [anl.gov]. This was rated as a success although Beagle 2 failed, just like several other missions that sent data or images back even if they sent less than planned due to a malfunction in one of the instruments or probes.
Re:Obligatory Link to the Lobbing Scorecard (Score:2)
parachuting problems?!! (Score:1, Funny)
Blast zone? (Score:1, Funny)
Under 50 replies and the story is down. Sheesh.
There should be a cache link requirement for a story to be accepted from now on.
mirrordot link. (Score:2)
the article [mirrordot.org] including some pictures.
wait a minute ... (Score:2, Interesting)
This happened not long after the mishap.
But within a VERY short while, all the news postings and pictures taken by the spy satellites VANISHED from the 'net.
Am I the only one who remembers this?
Re:wait a minute ... (Score:1, Funny)
Unfortunately, you are not the only one. A significant percentage of the population were unaffected by the memory-erasing ray broadcast during the popular sitcom 'Friends'.
Please report to your nearest government office for reeducation.
Re:wait a minute ... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:wait a minute ... (Score:2)
I remember reading about it on space.com, the article is probably in their archives somewhere.
Re:wait a minute ... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:wait a minute ... (Score:2)
Only till the agents get to your place with the blue pill..
Hope that helps!
J.
Not missing, just misplaced (Score:2, Funny)
Innovation at its finest (Score:1, Funny)
NASA Janitor 1:
NASA Janitor 2: You mean when they see Voyager and take their wagon to meet a new alien?
NASA Janitor 1: Yeah they just launch into outer space by riding their wagon down a hill and projecting into space!
NASA Intern passing by
Direct link to data and photos at Malin Space (Score:5, Informative)
Here is the direct link to the Malin Space Science Systems page with the data and images.
In addition to MPL, they have found Viking 2.
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/05/05/inCool stuff.
Re:Direct link to data and photos at Malin Space (Score:2)
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3
some scientists (Score:4, Funny)
This might help. [google.com]
Don't stop there (Score:2, Interesting)
Testing! (Score:2, Insightful)
Why is there not a standard design mars landing vehicle, one that can be used to deploy any payload upto say 8^3m meters in volume, it would solve a lot of issues and reduce the overall mission costs, if designed well it could be used to land on other bodies (moon/IO/Europa) with only a slight modification to fuel levels/Paracute size/airbag preasure.
Re:Testing! (Score:5, Informative)
I'm willing to bet the team wanted to disrupt the surrounding area around the craft as little as poissible. If you wait for a an extended force, that's time that the craft is on the group firing it's rockets into the ground doing nothing but churning up the landscape.
Why is there not a standard design mars landing vehicle, one that can be used to deploy any payload upto say 8^3m meters in volume, it would solve a lot of issues and reduce the overall mission costs, if designed well it could be used to land on other bodies (moon/IO/Europa) with only a slight modification to fuel levels/Paracute size/airbag preasure.
There's no standard design because we're still looking for the best solution! We've only landed a handful of times. Don't forget it's not just the landing to consider, but how we get the thing there. The systems used for the Rovers did pretty well for themselves, and I bet we see more of the Bouncy-Ball design in the future. However, landing location has a lot to do with landing type. The ice caps might in general have too delicate of a surface to ensure the bouncy-ball design work well there.
I'm sure that with continued missions, a more standard solution will come into effect.
Re:Testing! (Score:2)
From the images and the scale shown, the lander's rockets already burned a surface of approx. 450 square meters (30m x 15m) and they stopped while still 40 meters above ground. If you have your rockets burning the ground all the way down, it'
Re:Testing! (Score:1)
Re:Testing! (Score:2)
Ummm... this isn't the optimal design (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Testing! (Score:2)
With all those PhD's over there, you'd think they would have figured that one out already.
Send in the rover (Score:2)
Re:Send in the rover (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Send in the rover (Score:2)
Christopher Columbus, Ferdinand Magellan, Louis and Clarke, Francis Burton, and the Mars Rover: The great explorers of the Human Age.
Inexperiences (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Inexperiences (Score:2)
Re:Inexperiences (Score:2)
They didn't know what a parachute would look like layed randomly upon the Martian surface, photographed from 100 km up, with a resolution of about 2 meters/pixel.
You have got to be kidding ! (Score:1)
Are we really seeing the best quality photos available ?
From what I can tell, they have extrapolated the final image to the point where it almost looks like Abe Lincolns face here: http://www.balloonhq.com/highlights/hats/lincoln.J PG [balloonhq.com]
I hope I haven't violated any rules with that link, I just did a quick internet search for itm it's not meant as a troll or a advertisment
We welcome you (Score:1)
Present Usage (Score:2)
Why the MPL crashed (Score:5, Interesting)
MPL was to land under active control (with rocket power, not the air-bag trick). To kill the moter once it had touched down the legs contained contact sensors which were constructed of a pin with a spring, a magnet and a Hall-sensor. The legs were to be extended some time before touchdown.
The problem was the sensors would trigger some intermediate false readings during the leg extension. These false readings toggled a flag, which, once the control system first started looking for contact, immediately killed the engine, having the lander free-fall to death. Clearing the flag after the leg-extension would have saved the mission. The bug was not found because of errors in the software design documents and lack of a system level test. The intermediate false readings were found in a component level test, but its consequences somehow didn't made it in the final design.
That report contradicts this one (Score:2)
Expect the investigation to be re-opened. This report suggests that there are makes like you would expect from a rocket firing on the ground. Suggesting that the rockets were operating at touchdown time.
Do I have this right? Parachute still white? (Score:3, Insightful)
But the parachute that has been laying around for the last 5+ years is still in one piece, just as it fell, and is as white as can be...
Re:Do I have this right? Parachute still white? (Score:5, Informative)
From msss.com [msss.com] (where some images of the "wreck" can be seen):
"Shortly after the loss of Mars Polar Lander (MPL), the Mars Global Surveyor MOC was employed to acquire dozens of 1.5 m/pixel images of the landing uncertainty ellipses, looking for any evidence of the lander and its fate..."
These are not new images, just new finds on old images.
Re:Do I have this right? Parachute still white? (Score:2)
Re:Do I have this right? Parachute still white? (Score:1)
Game over man! (Score:1, Funny)
Comb the desert! (Score:3, Funny)
I looked at the pictures... (Score:1)
- Jim
Lost & Found (Score:1)
Not too sure about the validity of this one (Score:1, Redundant)
Are you going to tell me, unlike Opportunity's or Sprit's landing sites, that at the Martian poles there's no wind? I find it hard to beleive that the parachute and blast zones are still visible.
If the Martian poles are anything like Earth's, there should've been gale force winds there at one point in time within the last 5 years to blow this away. I mean it's a parachute!!! How could it not have moved?
How about the blast zones? It's dust! (possibly melted to glass) Why aren't there dust devil's here
Bad part of Mars (Score:2)
Such sloppy facts.... (Score:2, Informative)
Prime NASA cadidates here... (Score:1)
Re:Such sloppy facts.... (Score:1)
Re:Still missing (Score:2)