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Space Science

Relic Russian ICBM To the Rescue for Science 149

Posted by timothy from the swords-into-satellites dept.
helio writes "Japanese space agency, JAXA, has announced that the agency will use DNEPR space launch system to launch OICETS (Optical Inter-Orbit Communications Engineering Test Satellite). Initially OICETS was to be launched with Japan's H-IIA rocket, however the delay in their development and a lack of time in the schedule force JAXA to utilize Russian's DNEPR system. For those who are too young to remember Cold War, DNEPR space launch system used to be Russian's inter-continental ballistic missiles (ICBM). As you may guess, the OICETS satellite will be launched from a silo."
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Relic Russian ICBM To the Rescue for Science More

Relic Russian ICBM To the Rescue for Science

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  • Check it over reallllly good folks (Score:5, Funny)

    by nizo ( 81281 ) * on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @01:32PM (#11211142) Homepage Journal
    Boy are they going to be suprised if the backup systems kick in and the ICBM slams into Washington D.C.

    Seriously however, I can't think of a better use for old Russian ICBMs.

    • As long as the research satellite doesn't contain any nuclear warheads, I think we're probably safe if it impacts, unless it hits someone directly on the head, which one would have to take as some sort of sign from God that maybe today wasn't the best day to get out of bed.

    • Re:Check it over reallllly good folks (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Lets hope that the US doesn't have an automated response system that watches for anything coming out of the silos. It doesn't make for good international relations to launch a couple thousand nukes in response to communications satellite.

      • Re:Check it over reallllly good folks (Score:5, Funny)

        by idontgno ( 624372 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @02:02PM (#11211455) Journal
        Lets hope that the US doesn't have an automated response system that watches for anything coming out of the silos. It doesn't make for good international relations to launch a couple thousand nukes in response to communications satellite.

        Oh, good point, good point. Put that into the "Cost" column in the Cost-Benefit analysis for our Global Satellite Telecommunications Domination plan.

    • "Would you like to play a game?"
      "How about, Global Thermonuclear War?"

      I guess I'm probably dating myself with that one.

    • Serious Comment: Japan & Russia (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I, for one, am glad that Tokyo chose to cooperate with Russia on the next satellite launch. The other 3 options are the USA, France, and China [phrusa.org].

      Apparently, the latest Japanese assessment that China is a hostile foreign power has pervaded the government of Japan, and Tokyo will not be cooperating with Beijing for the intermediate future.

      For those who are not aware, the Japanese government recently issued a defense whitepaper identifying Beijing as a hostile military threat. Unlike the Taiwanese [geocities.com], the Jap

      • India Too! (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        You do realize that India also can launch Geostationary satellites. The GSLV project of ISRO (Indian version of NASA) can launch such payloads into sky.

      • Re:Serious Comment: Japan & Russia (Score:4, Insightful)

        by BranMan ( 29917 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @03:02PM (#11212232)
        Well, I'm sure it's kind of mutual. Chinese have a LOONG memory, and it's only been ~60 years since the occupation of China by the Japanese was ended. The Japanese conduct in China won them great emnity - I'm sure China considers Japan a Hostile Power even after all this time.

        • Chinese Memory = Bigotry (Score:1, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward
          Most people who are alive today never experienced World War II. So, most of us, including the barbaric Chinese [phrusa.org], cannot remember any events from that war. We cannot remember what we did not experience.

          When the Chinese talk about "remembering World War II" and using that memory to condemn Japan, the Chinese are talking about bigotry. In China, teaching bigotry to children and passing bigotry from one generation to the next is popular and encouraged.

          We in the West believe that teaching bigotry is wrong.

      • Apparently, the latest Japanese assessment that China is a hostile foreign power has pervaded the government of Japan, and Tokyo will not be cooperating with Beijing for the intermediate future.

        And by "latest" you mean "last thousand years," right?
      • Like any good (or even mediocre) super-power, China is only hostiel when they don't get when they want.

      • I, for one, am glad that Tokyo chose to cooperate with Russia on the next satellite launch

        The Russians have a history of technological development so that things get to be "good enough". On the other hand is the MiG 29.

        It ain't often been pretty (their history and engineering), but it tends to get the job done. In an emergency, you want reliable, tank-like, brute force, not blinky things that go PING!
    • Indeed, I too have difficulty finding a better use for an ancient Russian ICBM than flattening the white house.

      Not that I am bitter or anything...
      • Why? If you're looking for that numbnuts from Texas, he's always on vacation at his "ranch".

        They have to keep him away from Washington where real power-brokers and people with a clue about politics live and work. He's an embarassment when he's there.

        Just let him hang out down in Cowpattie, TX as long as he wants. Find him some horsies or something to ride, would ya?
    • Old Soviet ICBMs as used as boosters for the Soyuz spacecraft that serve the Intn'l Space Station right now.

    • Re:Check it over reallllly good folks (Score:5, Insightful)

      by tandr ( 108948 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @02:20PM (#11211631)
      Seriously however, I can't think of a better use for old Russian ICBMs.

      Well, I could not think of better use for old American ICBMs either. Or Chinese.
    • Yea I'll take satellites over warheads any day :)
    • What a good way to disguise a 1st launch strike.

      "Hey George it's your ole made Vlad 'ere, just letting you know we'll be releasing one of our ole ICBMs from a silo, but don't worry George it's only a Jap Satelite", strike one Waco obliterated.

      Better yet the Russians should try 'n get the contract for the Euro GPS network, that way they could disgise a fair dinkum 1st strike launch, by having a good excuse to send up a couple of dozen ICBMs at once, 'Hey George the Euros were getting impatiant about every

  • heh (Score:3, Funny)

    by Renraku ( 518261 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @01:33PM (#11211161) Homepage
    (minutes after launch)

    This just in!

    Rhode Island has been consumed in a fiery explosion!

    Also just in, the word "oops" is heard around the world, supposedly originating from a team of scientists and launch coordinators..

    • Re:heh (Score:2, Funny)

      by MrP-(at work) ( 839979 )
      HEY NOW! I live in RI =(
    • Ooh, that suggests a great riff on one of my favorite things....

      ENTIRE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND DESTROYED IN ENORMOUS EXPLOSION

      Details at 11!
      • Wouldn't that be: "Entire State of Rhode Island Destroyed in Moderately Big Explosion"? Maybe "Above Average"....
        • probably a better headline would be:
          "Entire State of Rhode Island Destroyed in Explosion Visible from Conneticut."

          this of course assumes that the observer is standing just across the border and is watching carefully.

  • I Dunno... (Score:2, Funny)

    by JossiRossi ( 840900 )
    Seems a bit too much like a James Bond Villian plot.

    "That's right Mr. Bond. The japanese science missile is actually carrying a nuclear payload, and there is no one here to stop me MWHAHAHAH! Now I'm going to put this "stop missile" remote control over here and leave the room secure in the fact that you can't possibly escape your restraints... MWHAHAHAHAH!"

  • Sigh. (Score:3, Informative)

    by mumblestheclown ( 569987 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @01:35PM (#11211177)
    If it's a relic, then it's not Russian, it's Soviet. If you want to call it current then it could be Russia, but then there would be some irony, as the name DNEPR is the name of the most important river in Ukraine, which is (in case any of you were sleeping while recent news was transpiring), a completely different country (much to Russia's consternation). In fact, if the Russians haven't yet changed the name of the DNEPR system, it only goes to further evidence their thinly veiled ambitions on Ukraine.
    • You must not be old enough to have been alive during the cold war or you are not from USA. Us dumb americans know that all those who used to live in CCCP(USSR) are "russians".
    • I'll bite.

      Change of the name is considered to be bad luck for ships (I am not sure about ICBMs, likely even more so). Besides, it makes me laugh to hear the "formerly known as..." phrases (among the most laughable changes in history are "french fries"->"freedom fries", for example). The name "Dnepr" does not imply that the system was either designed, built or deployed exlusively in Ukraine. There are plenty of Russian systems, ships and such with the names like "Elbrus", "Everest", or even "Kiev" or "
      • Actually, there are no ukrainian ships named volga or dunab. Anything with clearly russian names has been renamed long ago.

        Remember: it's perfectly normal to find a coffee in moscow or raleigh-durham called "amazon." However, it's quite another thing when you name something that has defense and national import, like, say, your nuclear weapons.

    • If it's a relic, then it's not Russian, it's Soviet. If you want to call it current then it could be Russia, but then there would be some irony

      Yeah, because the cataclysmic breakup of the largest country on the planet never generates any opportunity for irony....
    • I think, it's ukrainian rocket, it was definitely developed and built in Dnepropetrovsk. But Ukranians had little luck in producing rockets since they acquired independency, because they lost their only customer - Soviet Army. It seems, they also have not launch facility for heavy rockets. That's why the launch will be performed by russian agency.
    • Jesus, how is this flamebait? (Are you threre, god, it's me, drinkypoo) Expecting journalism from slashdot is like expecting security from microsoft or benevolence from the bush administration but it's a reasonable request, if not a reasonable expectation. There IS a difference between "Russian" and "Soviet". Be educated, and moderate with your mind, not your ass.

  • The ICBM contains...... (Score:5, Funny)

    by AtariAmarok ( 451306 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @01:36PM (#11211200)
    The ICBM contains a beowulf-cluster of sharks with friggen lazer beams mounted on their heads. It be be piloted by giant alien ant overlords (which I welcome) led by Bruce Willis. There, does that cover it all?

  • This article definatly lacks definate articles (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Scrameustache ( 459504 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @01:42PM (#11211272) Homepage Journal
    "The Japanese space agency, JAXA, has announced that the agency will use the DNEPR space launch system to launch the OICETS (Optical Inter-Orbit Communications Engineering Test Satellite). Initially the OICETS was to be launched with Japan's H-IIA rocket, however the delay in their development and a lack of time in the schedule force JAXA to utilize the Russian's DNEPR system. For those who are too young to remember the Cold War, the DNEPR space launch system used to be the Russian's inter-continental ballistic missiles (ICBM). As you may guess, the OICETS satellite will be launched from a silo."

    You know, Engrish can be cute, or it can be a pain to read.
    • For those who are too young to remember the Cold War, the DNEPR space launch system used to be the Russian's inter-continental ballistic missiles (ICBM).

      *Wondering who that Russian might have been*

    • "The Japanese space agency JAXA has announced that the agency will use the DNEPR space launch system to launch OICETS (Optical Inter-Orbit Communications Engineering Test Satellite). Initially OICETS was to be launched with Japan's H-IIA rocket, however the delay in its development and a lack of time in the schedule forced JAXA to utilize Russia's DNEPR system. For those who are too young to remember the Cold War, the DNEPR space launch system used to be Russia's inter-continental ballistic missile (ICBM).
  • http://www.russianspaceweb.com/dnepr.html

    Developed originally for the R36M ICBM/FO program scheduled for decommissioning 2007, the Dnepr is now looked at for commercial uses. Mixed bag of success. Economic problems persist.

    A bigger problem will be where Russia phases out Baikonur in favor of their own launch site at Svobodny 18, which isn't built for Dnepr.

  • Russians, military funding, and the private sector (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Tackhead ( 54550 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @01:45PM (#11211294)
    In addition to the Japanese project, a Russian nuclear sub crew will get some live-fire training while launching the (privately-funded) Planetary Society's Cosmos 1 [planetary.org] solar sail project in March of 2005.

    There are also companies that partner with Russian airbases to take wealthy Westerners up in basically anything with wings [incredible...ntures.com]. Having a Yankee in the back seat pays for the gas and maintenance, and helps the pilot get some flight hours.

    Hey, if you're short on hard currency to pay your troops, why not take some Western cash and make someone happy (whether it be through launching a space probe or giving 'em the ride of a lifetime) while your troops are getting their training.

    • From the second linked website: You will fly from the top-secret Zhukovsky Air Base, located just an hour from Moscow.

      It isn't top secret if everyone knows where the damn thing is!

    • Thanks for the great link to the Incredible Adventures folks. You gotta love a company that thinks so highly of their services that one of the web pages says "Don't leave the money to your kids! Wouldn't you rather take a space flight?"

      Cool. Way cool.

  • If it *does* head for DC... (Score:5, Funny)

    by mogrify ( 828588 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @01:50PM (#11211339) Homepage
    ... I think we can be reasonably certain that our brand-new, fully-functioning ballistic missile defense system will not intercept it...

  • About time (Score:4, Insightful)

    by AviLazar ( 741826 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @02:01PM (#11211451) Journal
    It is nice to finally see some old war technology used for beneficial purposes. While this is not the first time it has been done - it is always nice to hear. Especially when a group takes an obvious military weapon only device and transforms it into something useful (i.e. the military uses decomissioned tanks to make barrier reefs).
    • Oh, this is so old news, Zephran Cockran did it years ago.

      Oh, you say that'll happen in the future? But if I already saw it happen...then it's in the past...but warp technology isn't here yet...

      Damned temporal mechanics!
    • Many WWII bombers ended there days putting out forest fires. But yes this is a very good example of "swords into plowshears".
  • I think this is really a cover for the Super Milk Chan Punishment Missile
  • Russians are wikked.

    I don't know whether to be afraid of, or be confident in Russia that they don't leave...ya know...weapons-grade nuculer :) -anything- laying around old military installations that are converted for commericial endeavors. (or military grade anything else, for that matter)

    Svoboda dlya vsekh.
    Inject.

  • Sealaunch, Redstone, Titan and others (Score:4, Informative)

    by starbird ( 409793 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @02:06PM (#11211493)
    There have been a number of rockets that were originally designed as ICBMs and then used for commercial and other purposes, it's not that uncommon. The original Redstone rockets used for Mercury came right from the USAF. Instead of being loaded with a nuclear payload they recieved a capsule. Same with Gemini and its Titan rockets.

    Sealaunch uses Zenit for the first stage in their launcher. They wre originally designed as a quick launch ICBM by the Soviets. The launch facility was a truck and the whole system was designed to fit inside of a rail tunnel, to stay out of sight from american spy satellites.

    • Actually the Redstone was not an ICBM it was a SRBM it only had a range of a few hundred miles but that is just details. Mercury did use an ICBM the Atlas for the orbital missions. The Delta was based on the Thor IRBM as well. The current rockets called Atlas and Delta share little but a name with earlier versions. It is a good sign that no ICBM had been used as a weapon but many have been used to launch space craft :)
      • And... Redstone was developed by the US Army. USAF developed Atlas as an IRBM. The current Atlas is very similar looking to the original Atlas, even if it uses more modern engines, and LH/LOX instead of LOH/Alcohol propellant. Titan was the only liquid fueled ICBM for the US. It was also the one that was fitted with the largest US nuclear warheads. As such, a few still were kept around until the 80's.

        I thought one of the Russian launch outfits was using a few SS-18's as a launch platform...

        Now the ultimat

        • Re:Sealaunch, Redstone, Titan and others (Score:4, Informative)

          by LWATCDR ( 28044 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @04:50PM (#11213352) Homepage Journal
          "USAF developed Atlas as an IRBM."
          Actually no the Atlas was an ICBM not an IRBM the Air Force IRBM was the Thor that ended up being made into the Delta. The Air Force also got the Jupiter IRBM after it was taken away from the Army.

          Also the new Atlas V is very different than the original Atlas. For one the Atlas used what is called 1 1/2 staging. It used three rocket engines feeding from one set of tanks. It then dropped the two booster engines. The tank was also very unusual in that it was a "balloon" style tank made of super thin stainless steel it was pressurized to give it strength. Then new Atlas uses a single Russian engine and a conventional structure. So if the structure is different and the engines are different what is the same?
          BTW for reference take a look at this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_ICBM [wikipedia.org]
          And from the Wikipedia listing "The newest version of Atlas, the Atlas V, is an Atlas in name alone as it contains little Atlas technology. It no longer uses balloon tanks nor 1.5 staging, but incorporates a rigid framework for its first stage booster much like the Titan family of vehicles. Ironically, given Atlas's origin as a military weapon, the Atlas III and Atlas V use Russian-designed engines." Hey I did not even write that entry :) Oh and the Atlas always used RP/LOX and never used alcohol.
          "Titan was the only liquid fueled ICBM for the US." No the Titan I, Titan II, and Atlas where all ICBMs so it was three. The Titan I and Titan II where in the same family but very different machines. They used different fuels and the Titan II used storeables while the Titan I had to be fuel right before launch. The Titan I had a very short life span.
          "Now the ultimate irony will be when NASA starts using a few MX Peacekeeper rockets as launchers..."
          Already happening.
    • Sealaunch uses Zenit for the first stage in their launcher. They wre originally designed as a quick launch ICBM by the Soviets.

      Zenit [astronautix.com] is definitely not an ICBM; it was designed as more powerful replacement for Soyuz. Zenit first stage was also used as Energia strap-on.

      Back in the 60s, Ukrainian manufacturer of Zenit stared rocket production with UR-100 [astronautix.com], which is the rail-transportable container-stored quick-launch encapsulated storable liquid propellant missile, the world's biggest production run ICBM.
  • Didn't notice immediately what this acronym was -- but for the more geographically and/or geo-politically aware (read: not us Americans) among us -- the Dnieper river is the third largest in Europe(*), and largest in the Ukraine. It's known as the "holy river" due to its incredibly important role in the historic and economic development of (what's now) Eastern Europe.

    (What with all the "I got first post!" crap responses -- I hope nobody minds the occasional reminder that our world is a leetle beet beeger
  • This ICBM was of Soviet, not of Russian making. Dnepr is the main river in Ukraine, actually.

  • DNEPR-1 (Score:2, Informative)

    by dmitriy ( 40004 )
    DNEPR-1 is a civilian name for a rocket named (by NATO) Satan.

    Some people think it is way sexier [slashdot.org] than Delta-4 Heavy.

    Here's more stuff about this relic Russian (actually, Ukrainian) ICBM [slashdot.org]

  • ICBM re-use (Score:5, Informative)

    by Migraineman ( 632203 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @03:13PM (#11212374)
    Both the US and the former-Soviets have programs to dispose of ICBMs through commercial-use conversions. The US turns Peacekeeper ICBMs into Taurus launch vehicles. [orbital.com] Stanford University launched a bunch of picosats on the first Minotaur [astronautix.com]- a hybrid of the Minuteman ICBM and Pegasus upper stages. The DNEPR has launched [sstl.co.uk] a couple of small satellites already, and has a number of Cubesats on-deck. You can coordinate getting a Cubesat on a DNEPR launch through OSSS or TransOrbital.
  • Russian military technology is known to be very reliable. They might not have always had the latest technical and computer gizmos but they always had reliable equipment. The DNEPR was built during the golden era of Soviet Military. I don't know about this country but back in Soviet Union the profession of a rocket engineer or even any kind of engineer involved in military technology was highly prestigious. They funneled so much money into defence and they went to great lengths to instill this pride of the "
    • Sorry pressed submit too early
      I was just wanted to conlude that it seem because the profession of an engineer involved in military techonolgy was so prestigious they had a lot of really good people working on building those rockets. I just don't think in US an aerospace engineer has the same status as they would have in ex-Soviet Union. I don't think they got paid nearly as much as the western designers and engineers, they were motivated by recognition and interest mostly.

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