Chronic Pain Shrinks The Brain 60
An anonymous reader writes "LiveScience is reporting on a study showing that people with chronic lower back pain have 5 to 11 percent less gray matter than pain-free folks. Its not known for sure why, but the thinking is that neurons just get worn out as the mind deals with the pain."
pain = shrinkage (Score:1, Insightful)
ugggh - nasty thought here on
Their MINDS you fool - pleasuring THE MIND.
Get you head out of the gutter!
Re:pain = shrinkage (Score:2)
one of the system used by evolution (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:one of the system used by evolution (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: or... (Score:1, Funny)
Yeah, it must be something like that, because my back is killing me...
Re:one of the system used by evolution (Score:2)
Re:one of the system used by evolution (Score:1)
Re:one of the system used by evolution (Score:2)
Re:one of the system used by evolution (Score:2)
I'm in the process of reading the extended phenotype (a follow up to the Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins). It makes sense that we develop such a thing if you look at genes rather than organisms as the elements which are affected by natural selection. Organisms are the vehicule for reproduction of these genes. A meta ecosystem of sorts.
Pain is actually a good thing.
Study Problems (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Study Problems (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Study Problems (Score:4, Insightful)
Not at all. The study (or studies) may be perfectly valid, and the problem may be that you're trying to draw a conclusion that's so simple it doesn't reflect the truth. Or different people interpret the results of the study differently.
Taking the egg example, it's pretty clear that eggs are good for you and eggs are bad for you. They're a rich source of protein, but they're high in cholesterol and fat. Same study, same data, two different interpretations of "good."
You don't need to be "inherently distrustful" of scientific studies, particularly if they really are scientific. A better place for your distrust is in the oversimplified interpretations we get from the media, which likes to boil things down to a third grade reading level, and from people and corporations with a vested interest in the interpretation who twist data to suit their own agendas.
In soviet russia... (Score:3, Funny)
Seriously, how do we know what the dependent variable is.
(and the flaming ensues)
Re:In soviet russia... (Score:1)
Re:In soviet russia... (Score:1)
Re:In soviet russia... (Score:1, Informative)
geesh (Score:1)
how's your back pain doing? (Score:2)
Interestingly enough... (Score:3, Interesting)
"You have smoked yourself retarded."
--riney
Re:Interestingly enough... (Score:1)
I would rather a person go through life with a mild buzz, hell, blitzed out of their minds even, then suffer the pains of MS (either one :)), seizures, IBS, back injuries, etc.
There are many intelligent, successful people who use marijuana medically and recreationally. The typical image of a burned out
Re:Interestingly enough... (Score:2)
One could just as well, IMO, substitute "TV" for pain. So I fail to see your point.
SB
Re:Interestingly enough... (Score:1, Informative)
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of reasons to avoid marijuana, especially because the common method of administration - smoking - is proven
Obviously. (Score:5, Funny)
Right. Either that or being stupid hurts.
Re:Obviously. (Score:1)
Unfortunately being stupid seems only to hurt those around the stupid person, not the stupid person themselves...
Ow, the article! (Score:2)
Hahaha I totally read that wrong. (Score:1)
Phew!!
Re:Hahaha I totally read that wrong. (Score:3, Funny)
Or, perhaps (Score:3, Interesting)
Who could've guessed...
Re:Or, perhaps (Score:1)
Agreed. I know two people who supposedly have fibromyalgia (a chronic pain disorder) - one is doing fine and she's on homeopathic medicine, therapy and acupuncture, and the other is having seizures because she's on such a bizarre coctail of drugs.
The pharmo-medical complex has made doctors more likely to give a pill for a given problem than refer somebody to a therapist, and the drugs which my friend has been prescribed are highly addictive and cause the body to adapt quickly: the prescription runs out, a
Re:Or, perhaps (Score:2)
Even opioids are rarely addictive when properly used for pain management under the supervision of a doctor. Do not mistake physical dependence (a routine, expected and manageable occurrence with long-term opioid use) for "addiction", by definition a harmful psychological disorder. Countless people suffer needlessl
Alice Cooper sang about this... (Score:3, Informative)
.
Read the title as... (Score:2)
I wonder how many death-metal bands begin as nothing more than a too-good-to-waste name? (and yes, I know a lot end there)
/.'s Chronic Problems with Causality (Score:5, Insightful)
Possible causes? Perhaps the pain does cause the brain to shrink. Perhaps people who are predisposed to pain are also born with smaller brains. Perhaps their brains shrunk due to another cause and the shrinkage is causing the pain. Or perhaps with such a small study (26 people) they happened to choose people who just happened to have smaller amount of gray matter.
I would also like to note that brain functions that make humans able to reason more effectively are located in the gray matter part of the brain, which is the region that was found to be reduced. However, it is also known that the amount of gray matter is not strongly correlated with intelligence. (Actually, it has been found that the amount of folding, that is the number of creases on the brain, affects intelligence much more.) So, there is no reason yet to think that these people are actually suffering any loss of function.
So while interesting, until more research is done, these results should not be over-interpreted.
Re:/.'s Chronic Problems with Causality (Score:3, Informative)
You know it'll never happen.
Re:/.'s Chronic Problems with Causality (Score:2)
Re:/.'s Chronic Problems with Causality (Score:2)
Seriously, his rant was against the EDITORS not the article. The parent's point was that the editors should not imply causality when the article does not. HELLO! McFly!
Perhaps YOU should have understood the parent before posting a snide anti-rant comment?
Re:/.'s Chronic Problems with Causality (Score:2)
Maybe it isn't the pain itself? (Score:3, Insightful)
No Pain No Gain (Score:2)
suspect statistics (Score:4, Interesting)
Most of the method that others are complaining about (only 26 people, etc.--read the article, they're doing things just fine) seems fine to me, but what really bothers me is this:
They're claiming that a 30 cm^3 decrease is significant when their 1 sigma error is 42-44 cm^3! 1 sigma! In my field of science, nobody believes you unless the error bars don't overlap (much) with two or three sigma. Basically, everything is essentially the same to within one sigma:
528+44=572>569;
569-42=527528.
Anyway, I'm sure there's some stuff that I missed, but until a larger study is done with better error analysis, I'll take what they've done as probably correct, but with some doubt. . .
Re:Link? (Score:2)
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/vol24/issue46/ [jneurosci.org]
http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/reprint/24/46/10410 [jneurosci.org]
Unfortunately, unless you have a subscription to J. Neuro. Sci., or you attend a university (or other institution; or at least have access to a computer from such an institution) that does, you can only get the abstract.
Did they ever consider... (Score:1)
People with back pain get said pain through laborious work. Who works with their back instead of their brain? Why, stupid people of course! So a bunch of people with small brains but hurt backs, seriously, what kind of no-brainer (haha) is this?
Pain adaptation (Score:2)