Elon Musk Wants Space Colonists, Not Just Tourists 67
An anonymous reader writes "Elon Musk, founder of PayPal and CEO of SpaceX, is not all that excited about space tourism: he wants to colonize Mars. 'I don't think it's a tragedy that people can't have fun in space. People should be able to go if they want to, but it's no great tragedy if they can't. But I do think it is a great tragedy if humanity can't establish itself on another planet. It's the single most important thing we can do to continue the human race.' SpaceX will launch Falcon I in mid to late January 2005."
Not another planet - Space itself (Score:5, Interesting)
Anybody with me?
Re:Not another planet - Space itself (Score:2)
Sure, it'd probably be shitty for the first hundred years or so. But think of what you'd be doing for humankind. It far surpasses any colonization in history.
Depends where the resources are (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Depends where the resources are (Score:5, Insightful)
Once we have gone to space, our possibilities are limitless. For example, once completely self contained space platforms are common, one of them will almost certainly get fed up with everyone in the sol system - and take off for another star. It won't matter how far you are going, because the journey (or arrival) would not really change your life style any.
In addition, it will be possible to get with a group of like-minded people and build your own society. This could be an end of terrorism, maybe even an end of some of the other unlpeasant things that happen on Earth. (Not that this will change human nature, it will just reduce the struggle for resources.)
like-minded people and build your own society. (Score:4, Interesting)
But somehow I have this feeling that they would feel compelled to park all of their Arcologies in geosynchronous orbit over the Jerusalem/Mecca vicinity, and duke it out.
Re:like-minded people and build your own society. (Score:2)
Re:like-minded people and build your own society. (Score:1)
Re:like-minded people and build your own society. (Score:2)
People who stay on Earth are the people to w
Re:like-minded people and build your own society. (Score:2)
In my opinion, any country I could go to has more problems than my own (that's why I haven't left permanently), and anywhere that is not a country is under threat of "bad" people, like pirates in asia and the south pacific.
Really, what are my options?
Re:like-minded people and build your own society. (Score:1)
>>
Just because you feel no connection to the place does not eliminate the fact that you are benefiting from thousands of years of the evolution of human social and scientific systems.
Those benefits came at a price. The technology age /space age is a product of the industrial revolution. The industrial revolution was a product of the enlightenment. The
Re:like-minded people and build your own society. (Score:1)
You must have misunderstood me. I have no problem being a part of the solution, I just have a problem being called the problem. The terrorist hate me. The terrorists want to kill me, personally. They are not just going after the Romans, Greeks, Bush, etc because that group has attacked them. I am not doing anything to them, but because oil companies deal with Saudi Arabia (something not within my control) my life is in danger. The terrorist
Re:like-minded people and build your own society. (Score:2)
The day the Muslims develop a culture capable of building an arcology (as opposed to merely deorbiting one) is the day humanity ceases to have to worry about Muslims "coming after us" - in space or on Earth.
Stranger things have happened in history, but I'm not holding my breath.
> The SIG for another /. poster is something like "History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes."
Re:Not another planet - Space itself (Score:2)
All the way! (Score:1)
Let's go! [spaceref.com]
Depends on why you want to colonize space (Score:1)
If it is...
...to escape being swallowed by the sun in a red-giant expansion? Then you need to be further away than Mars.
...to survive a nearby supernova, your only chance is to be underground inside of a giant mass (and be able to survive the extreme conditions).
...to have abundant raw materials? Then Luna is closer than Mars, and the asteroid belt requires less energy if you are going to import the materials.
...to build a space-faring capability? Then yeah, you'll want to live in space but don'
Homestead Mars! (Score:3, Insightful)
If you REALLY want to colonize Mars, allow corporations to do this as well as individuals. That's probably the fastest way. Whether or not it's the best way is up for debate...
Quote from B5 on Importance of Colonizing Space (Score:4, Insightful)
From the Babylon 5 [warnerbros.com] television series, Capt. John Sheridan:
Re:Quote from B5 on Importance of Colonizing Space (Score:1)
I'm sure there's some fudge factor, but (give or take a few million years)if our star is running down - I bet the r
Re:Quote from B5 on Importance of Colonizing Space (Score:1)
Quote from Larry Niven (Score:2)
We need to get off the planet.
Re:Quote from B5 on Importance of Colonizing Space (Score:1)
To be clear (for those who choose to use prejudice filters you can begin here) - I feel that the energy organization principle that we refer to as consciousness predates material formation, and so would not cease in the advent of a dissappeared life-envelope as we presently constru
Did Elon Musk found PayPal? (Score:2)
Re:Did Elon Musk found PayPal? (Score:1)
Deep Seas (Score:2)
Re:Deep Seas (Score:2)
The water pressure would be soooooooo crushing that such a structure would probably cost as much as a Mars space ship.
Now, colonizing the continental shelves might be practical.
why choose? (Score:4, Interesting)
All recent colonization (past few thousand years) has been an effort to connect with other people already living in remote locations, and prior "aboriginal" colonization was apparently due to exhausting resources (or social conflict) in the original location. While planting colonies among alien "people" seems an attractive option, it's unlikely. While waiting until the Earth is used up, or too hostile to stay, is a much less likely way to ensure our species' survival.
Re:why choose? (Score:3, Interesting)
Hmm that's not how the colonists in North America saw it -- the Colonies were pretty angry that everything they made had to be sold back to England, and that their economy was being crushed by English taxes. People didn't go to the new world for tourism, they went because of business opportunity -- and when the unfair trading practices made those opportunities poor, they revolted.
The colonization of N
Re:why choose? (Score:2)
Re:why choose? (Score:2)
Re:why choose? (Score:2)
There are lots of other descriptions of the early trade between Europeans and American tribes, when the newcomers were at a disadvantage for mere survival, let alone conquest. When that phase passed, Europeans leveraged their superior firepower and transportation into conquest. All in the name of taking what the Americans had produced, in their lifetimes or over generations of bre
Re:why choose? (Score:2)
" Although the voyages did not yield an immediate solution for the Governor of Cuba, there were indications of a wealthy civilisation somewhere just beyond the Spaniard's reach. Intrigued and excited about the possibility of finding the source of this wealth, Velásquez commissioned Hernán Cortés to explore, trade, and search for Christian captives in the Yucatán."
"ortés did not want to explore, trade, and search for Christian captives. Rather, hi
Re:why choose? (Score:2)
Re:why choose? (Score:2)
Velasquez sent them out to trade with a civilization, one his recon men had only heard about. He was expecting the kind of civilization you'd see in Europe. The euro idea of civilization was pretty narrow. Cortez saw what the aztecs were, and knew it wasn't "Civilization" and so conquered it.
"Cortés' gambled that his success would absolve him of his rebellion against Vel
Re:why choose? (Score:2)
I'm currently reading the pioneering study of "fractal sensibility" in African craft, African Fractals [rpi.edu]. We are fortunate to be more enlightened than most Enlightenment Europeans - our wor
Re:why choose? (Score:1)
Was Europe used up when they started colonize the Americas? Life in colonial America was much tougher than England, even the voyage itself was dangerous. Sure some people moved here for more freedom or to convert the natives, but most did it for th
Re:why choose? (Score:2)
Re:why choose? (Score:1)
I know tobacco and cocaine, were quite advanced... AKA, of course there were many things th
Re:why choose? (Score:2)
Who would be best to colonize another planet? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Who would be best to colonize another planet? (Score:1)
Re:Who would be best to colonize another planet? (Score:3, Insightful)
The real motivator I feel will be 2 fold. First, the
Re:Who would be best to colonize another planet? (Score:1)
You can still have internet,tv and communications with earth, however with a 10 minute delay. For internet and TV that should not be that big of a problem (must people visit the same sites everyday anyway). Just have big cache for internet that automatically updates. TV is even less of a big deal, so what if you watch yesterdays show? Communication can be akward but y
Re:Who would be best to colonize another planet? (Score:1)
Re:Who would be best to colonize another planet? (Score:2)
Futility of such talk (Score:2)
Until we can discover/create a sufficiently small, powerful, manageable power source, we aren't going beyong the moon.
Any ship that would take anyone (except Apollo 11-type explorers) on interplanetary travel will need to be robust enough to protect against small meteors, adequately shielded from radiation, and large enough to provide some sort of pseudo-gravity.
Accelerating such a craft to a speed adequate to "rapidly" cross the ~300(*) million
Re:Futility of such talk (Score:1)
Nukes. Solar power. Either suffice for travel to Mars. Nukes can be used for farther than that, but solar power requires much larger collection equipment in the asteroids.
Any ship that would take anyone (except Apollo 11-type explorers) on interplanetary travel will need to be robust enough to protect against small meteors, adequately shielded from radiation, and large enough to provi
Re:Futility of such talk (Score:2)
Isn't manageable (yet)
Why "back"?
Because people want to travel back and forth?
And, the proper sort of power source would allow "us" or the Martian colonists to mine the asteroids, etc, etc.
Rotational "gravity" isn't required unless it's going to be longer than 6 months or so, which a fast ship wouldn't be.
I'd still much rather travel in a shielded craft that provides at least partial, temporary(*) gravity.
(*) spinning sleep rooms, for example, so that your body is subject to pseudo-gravity
Re:Futility of such talk (Score:1)
Isn't manageable (yet)
It's been manageable since the 1960s. A craft in either the NERVA or Orion families would be much more capable than any chemical rocket, and pretty straightforward to build.
Re:Futility of such talk (Score:2)
The average straight-line distance is considerably more than 73 Gm. 73 Gm is very close to the MINIMUM straight-line distance. Average is a lot closer to 240 Gm.
Actual distance travelled in a Hohmann transfer orbit (which is a poor choice for a manned mission) is ~60
Re:Futility of such talk (Score:2)
And if the 2 ships aren't exactly balanced, it'll wobble, and that's a Bad Thing.
Think of an out-of-balance ceiling fan.
Its not futile. (Score:2)
You are correct that you need adequate power to accelerate and decelerate the space ship; but distance will not matter because of inertia. Once the ship is at maximum speed you can turn the engine off and it will continue to Mars at maximum speed until you start the deceleration process.
Re:Futility of such talk (Score:2)
manageable power source (Score:2)
Single most important thing? (Score:2)
Well, something more important right now would be to insure our continued survival on this planet first. Think about potential catastrophe from nuclear war, bio war, bio industry, other non-intentional environmental issues (pollution, heat, etc.), and we have the potential to pretty well f* it up here before getting anywhere else.
Re:Single most important thing? (Score:1)
Re:Single most important thing? (Score:2)
You sure there? (Score:1)
Earth is a closed system. (Score:1)
Re:Earth is a closed system. (Score:2)
inflatable hotel in article (Score:2)
NEXT YEAR!!!!! Wow.
Space.cc (Score:1)