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Space News

China Plans 5-day Manned Space Mission 245

Posted by timothy from the remember-the-board-games dept.
rune writes "Both the BBC and The Register have articles on China's next manned space mission. This time two taikonauts are planned to be on board the Shenzou VI spacecraft sometime during 2005 for about five days. There is also a brief mention of the plans of the Chinese Space Agency for lunar exploration." hrld1,kon adds a link to this article on Chinaview, the official English-language news source for the People's Republic of China.
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China Plans 5-day Manned Space Mission More

China Plans 5-day Manned Space Mission

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  • Russians will be there first...

    • At least somebody is doing something (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Taco Cowboy ( 5327 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @01:47AM (#10697573) Journal


      Something is always better than nothing.

      Ever since the space shuttle disaster, and the bankrupt of Russia, both the Americans and Russians are stuck with the ultra-expensive ISS.

      The Chinese are doing something, and they ought to be congratulated.

      If the Indians can do it earlier than the Chinese, so much the better. I also heard that Brazil also has something under development.

      How about the Europeans ?

      • Re:At least somebody is doing something (Score:5, Insightful)

        by cosmo7 ( 325616 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @02:01AM (#10697646) Homepage
        The ISS doesn't have to be ultra-expensive. The space program has become the pork barrel smorgasbord of American politics. If completion and operation of the ISS was opened to independent contractors costs would plummet.

        Think about it: DC. Huge contracts. Political oversight. Do you really think that money is being spent in the most cost-effective way?

        • Re:At least somebody is doing something (Score:5, Insightful)

          by luvirini ( 753157 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @02:06AM (#10697673)
          Unfortunately ISS has to be expensive for the reasons you say and a few more, like the safety requirement. Any new technology is dangerous and people die when making them better. In order for things to get better you that needs to happen. The total number of people who died in the early years of aviation was huge, but again for political reasons that cannot be allowed in the space programs.
          • ?!? You have a startling outlook on things, by the look of it. So, what you;re saying is, 'what the hell, people die, but that's OK, because it's New Technology'? I don't agree, to put it mildly, and I think your attitude is stupid.

            Apart from that: It's not true that 'any new technology is dangerous'; some new things may be dangerous. And people don't die when making them better, they die when things aren't good enough. In most cases that kind of accidents can be avoided if those in charge can be bothered
              • And to say that we can't let people die in large numbers in the space progra 'for political reasons' says more about you as a person than it does about those in charge of space programs, fortunately. I think you need to take a close look at sorting out your priorities if you think that human life - or any life - is that cheap.

              We let people die in various ways and huge numbers all the time... The economic choices we make help millions to die in 3rd world. The car industry makes thousands of people (both

            • You do not have to agree, but if you look at history "all" the real advances in technology have caused death in the phases of the enterprise.

              Yes people die when things are not good enough, in most cases the reson for them not being good enough is because we do not know enough.

              About attitude in general, I think that the current culture trying to overprotect people is stopping innovation in many fields. Some of them important some less important.

              I just wonder at what point the good of individual became

      • China has been on again and off again with its moon plans. And India has issues that are too pressing for such a plan to get too much support (India kind of had a space program force on them, via their arms race with Pakistan. "Ok, we've got this Agni... might as well tweak it to launch satellites...")
      • The Europeans (or ESA) have long term plans to put people on the moon as well as on Mars. This programme is called Aurora, and was decided upon in 2002. The goals include, among others, a Mars rover (2007) and a Mars sample return (two launches, 2011 and 2014). The manned plans include a landing on the moon by 2024 and on Mars around 2030-ish. Before that manned lunar landing I have no real knowledge on what the European plans for manned space travel really are. But things are moving along, just not as fast

  • I'm sorry... (Score:3, Funny)

    by dwgranth ( 578126 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @12:59AM (#10697291) Journal
    but does anyone else think this sounds like some cheezy anime cartoon??? taikonauts on the Shinzu??

    • Re:I'm sorry... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by bushboy ( 112290 ) <lttc@lefthandedmonkeys.org> on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @01:06AM (#10697338) Homepage
      Nope.

      Sounds to me like China's space program is really going well and also that China is very much a potential super power - time will tell.

      • Re:I'm sorry... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by dwgranth ( 578126 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @01:18AM (#10697407) Journal
        fair enough... seeing that the US is thinking of shutting down the shuttle missions soon, and it sending astronauts by way of the Russian rockets.. maybe china will come out on top after all in the next round of the space race (Man on mars??)

      • Re:I'm sorry... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Cali Thalen ( 627449 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @01:24AM (#10697441) Homepage
        POTENTIAL superpower?!? You'd better hope they don't decide to provide proof of it...

        Someone post some stats about China's military numbers and their nuclear arsenal...I'm too lazy to google...

        No I'm not...2.5 million in the military, first successful nuclear test, 1964, hydrogen in 1967....OK they're #5 among the main nuclear powers, but that's still ~120 nuclear missles can do enough damage to consider them pretty powerful.

        • 120 nuclear missles can do enough damage to consider them pretty powerful.

          Well, why do you think the current missile defence system that US is developing is targeted at about the same number of threaths?

          • Your blind faith in this unproven, hugely expensive, engineering disgrace that a majority of scientists and engineers oppose or criticise as a completely ineffective and unproven and that could not actually defend us from missiles is what makes America great.

            Seriously, read Bob Park [aps.org] once in a while - it's his favorite subject. (example at http://www.aps.org/WN/WN04/wn102204.cfm [aps.org])
            • I did not try to imply that the system in question will stop those missiles, the point I tried to make is the reason why that number was picked as goal for the missile defence system. Nothing less nothing more. (of intrest to those paranoids, the number also happens to be about the total of the missiles that the french and brits have 64+64.)
            • Don't be so proud of this technological terror you've constructed.

              The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

          • Re:I'm sorry... (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Mant ( 578427 )

            Becuase US military planners don't think China will just build more misiles?

        • OK they're #5 among the main nuclear powers, but that's still ~120 nuclear missles can do enough damage to consider them pretty powerful.

          They have only 24 ICBMs [globalsecurity.org] that can reach US soil. Many of the rest can't even reach Tokyo or Moscow. Still, 24 5-megaton warheads makes for a sufficient deterrent, and China probably feels no pressure to upgrade until the US missle defense proves its efficiency.

          • Re:I'm sorry... (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Rei ( 128717 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @04:11AM (#10698141) Homepage
            Not only that, but 24 - even 120 - is an incredibly small number of nuclear weapons for a country as big as China. The US, for comparison, has thousands (~10,000, if I recall correctly - it's been a while)

            China's nuclear arsenal is about as good of an example of a "deterrant arsenal" as you can get. And, barring a drastic change in military strategy, if the US tries a "try to break their budget through a big military buildup" strategy, it's only going to break our own budget.
            • It's not how many you have but what your enemy think you'll do with them that matters. If China says "We don't mind losing Shanghai" and the US says "We couldn't risk any of our cities getting hit", their nukes have done their job.
        • You may have missed the bit at school where they mentioned that the nuclear club contains Isreal, and contrary to any opinion, Isreal is not a superpower.

          In terms of superpowers, you have to look at the GDP and economic growth, and China has quite a deal going. Any company wishing to take advantage of the huge potential workforce has to sign a fifty/fifty deal with the chinese government. There isn't a lot of creative accounting that you can do, and this has fueled the growth over the past ten years, ad
    • Actually, they're not called taikonauts any more than their American colleagues are called spaceonauts. It's a play with words by some lame journalist (whose nationality I can't recall, I only remember he's not Chinese), that has unfortunately caught on in the media. Nobody involved in the Chinese space program has ever called them anything that even remotely resembles "taikonauts".

  • This is way cool... (Score:5, Funny)

    by ajiva ( 156759 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @01:00AM (#10697294)
    I'm hoping that with China, and maybe India getting involved in exploring space, maybe the US might get involved too. A three or four way (with Russia) space race, could easily see humans "out there" in the next 50 years. At the current rate, I don't think we'd ever make it.

    • Re:This is way cool... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AndyChrist ( 161262 ) <andy_christ@yahoo. c o m> on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @01:30AM (#10697478) Homepage
      Five way, if you count private enterprise separately. Six if you count the ESA separately as well.

      I wonder if the current partners will try and bring China on board the space station project? It would probably be comforting to know there was another party that could reach it if the US and Russia (at the same time) were rendered unable to.

      Well, so long as no one is trying to render anyone else unable to, it's comforting.

    • Before sending ppl into outer space serious problems have to be solved. Space kills! By its sheer size! Or its other extreme parameters. All of those has to be addressed and solved before it makes any sense putting mankind into space for prolonged time.

      Regards Thomas

  • Made in China... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Dzimas ( 547818 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @01:02AM (#10697303)
    I'm getting scared. TVs, computers, LCD displays, mp3 players, and nearly every other kind of high tech device is made in China. Now they're leading the "new wave" into space.

    Meanwhile in North America, we've perfected manufacture of the double bacon cheeseburger. Gulp.

    • Re:Made in China... (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      But if we can sell just one double bacon cheeseburger to each Chinese, just think what we'll make!

      P.S. Don't worry! Years ago we had already done everything they hope to do some day. We're way ahead. And space is not for humans, but for our offspring, robots.

    • Re:Made in China... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I'm getting scared.

      Scared?? What is their to be scared of?? China is the mightiest nation on earth. They have a standing army larger than the population of the United States. By 2050, if we are still around, you won't have anything to worry about. In fact you'll be happy in your new job that was outsourced from "the mainland" to save China money :)
      • Well, thse numbers do not mean as much as quality when it comes to armies, most of their army is not even motorised.
    • China is on top because of their slave labour and corrupt government. If china's wages went up the jobs would go somewhere else.

      Don't equate production with profits, I seriously doubt the money is staying in china.

    • Well ya (Score:5, Funny)

      by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @01:49AM (#10697586)
      There [ti.com] certianly [motorola.com] aren't [intel.com] any [amd.com] US [ibm.com] companies [agilent.com] that [ge.com] make [apple.com] high [nvidia.com] technology [analog.com].

      And I'm also certian that the US didn't just complete the first non-government manned space flight [scaled.com] and doesn't have billions of dollars going to develop private space flight [virgingalactic.com].

      Give me a break.

      China is emerging as an ecenomic powerhouse, and it looks like it will continue down that path, provided their government doesn't screw up. However please don't pretend like all good things come from China. I gave just a small list of the US companies that produce advanced hardware, including what drives almost all the devices you listed. Your MP3 player may be built in China but it's usually using TI DSPs and AD opamps.

      You know it's perfectly possible for China AND the US to be economic powers, and for both to benefit from trade with each other.

      • Not much chance of that happening. Need a few years of sabre-rattling politics before they'll get over themselves and negotiate reasonably. That said there probably should be talks between the four largest trading blocs (USA, China, Europe and ASEAN - I reckon) to figure out how they can benefit each other without the constant furore. Maybe they could even figure out how to stop fucking over the third-world nations through their shitty trade-agreements.

      • Re:Well ya (Score:3, Informative)

        by aallan ( 68633 )

        And I'm also certian that the US didn't just complete the first non-government manned space flight and doesn't have billions of dollars going to develop private space flight [virgingalactic.com].

        Actually, the Virgin [virgin.com] group of companies is British...

        Al.
    • Now they're leading the "new wave" into space.

      Of course. Here, space exploration doesn't have a "business case" which sufficiently impresses middle management. Therefore, we invest in breakfast nooks.

    • Re:Made in China... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by ducomputergeek ( 595742 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @02:25AM (#10697745)
      Nah, now its a race between China vs. Rutan to see who can put a man in space longer. So far China's ahead, but Rutan got a man in space twice in 2 weeks on a USD 25M budget. Now that's impressive even if it was just sub-orbital. Also proves that Dual Stage to Orbit vs. NASA's Single Stage to Orbit pipe dream is more cost effective.

    • Re:Made in China... (Score:3, Informative)

      by dasunt ( 249686 )

      I'm getting scared. TVs, computers, LCD displays, mp3 players, and nearly every other kind of high tech device is made in China. Now they're leading the "new wave" into space.

      If the Yuan ever floats (which would be due to economic/legal reform in China), then I believe that it would quickly fall in value compared to the US dollar, and the trade issues would change. I don't think that the current fixed exchange rates are sustainable as China's economy becomes a good fraction of the US's economy.

      The

    • 2008 wake up call (Score:4, Insightful)

      by tod_miller ( 792541 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @03:09AM (#10697895) Journal
      Why are you even scared - so what if China is developing fast, has 1/6 the world population, you can just be thankful (if you like) that for the last few millenia they have been content stuck behind a wall.

      I think China is interesting, they will grow rapidly, with ever increasing ties into Japan-tech and don't forget a little sporting event in 2008 that will wake up most of the western world to how great China is.

      I wouldn't think for one moment China wants to barrage the US with bombs, I think barraging them with LCD's, Chips and assorted gadgetry will suffice.

      Look what happened ot Japan after 2 nuclear bombs. They didn't reinvest into thier army, but in developing technology.

      If in 4 years I here rhetorical war mongering amongst a (hopefully not, why not go and vote today?) Bush administration I will wonder what country they will hype up as a threat to world security in order to keep their little club in power.

      You see, we have no right being scared, trying to hold back other countries. You cannot be anti-monopolistic and worry about China at the same time.

      Fact: China will become a (the) world super power within 40 years, and export technology, culture and politics around the world.

      I for one welcome our Chinese overlords... :-) hahahahahahahahhaha laugh. Oh read Neuromancer and see for yourself the Asian overtones that sweep the entire future worlds.

  • life support (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @01:04AM (#10697316)
    they will remain in orbit for five days, although their craft could support them for up to one week.

    wow, IMO that's a pretty a small buffer! i would add more to accomodate for any miscalculations or if they must stay up for londer for whatever reason.

  • LOL (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DarkMantle ( 784415 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @01:06AM (#10697330) Homepage
    From the Article.. "In order to create a craft capable of orbiting in space for five days, scientists say they have been trying to reduce weight and improve the performance of onboad instrumentation."

    The funny part is... the US sent men to the moon in the late 60's and the entire spacecraft had less computer power then a 486 computer... And they need to improve current technology???

    Just goes to show, with todays technology, we sometimes forget we can simplify things.

    • Re:LOL (Score:5, Informative)

      by nels_tomlinson ( 106413 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @01:29AM (#10697466) Homepage
      ... the US sent men to the moon in the late 60's and the entire spacecraft had less computer power then a 486 computer... And they need to improve current technology?

      Well, there's always room for improvement. I'm sure they'd like to send more men up with less rocket booster than we could do 40 years ago. I bet they've already caught up to where we were in the '60s; after all, they've been making ICBMs for a long time now [fas.org], they claim.

      As for the instrumentation, they make a lot of chips in China, but I think they're all consumer-grade, not radiation-hardened. Nowadays they should be able to collect a lot more data on the ship and its performance than we could get during the Apollo era.

    • Re:LOL (Score:4, Informative)

      by Waffle Iron ( 339739 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @01:33AM (#10697490)
      the US sent men to the moon in the late 60's and the entire spacecraft had less computer power then a 486 computer

      Actually, far less power than a 486. It was a 15-bit CPU (8K RAM, 64K ROM) with a memory cycle frequency of only 83 kHz.

    • 486 (Score:5, Interesting)

      by vlad_petric ( 94134 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @02:13AM (#10697694) Homepage
      It was actually much less than that (probably comparable to a Z80). 486 would have been PFM (pure magik) for those times.

      FYI: even today, you can't send more than a 486 in orbit, mostly because of feature sizes. The smaller the feature size, the easier for cosmic radiation to screw things up.

    • the US sent men to the moon in the late 60's and the entire spacecraft had less computer power then a 486 computer

      That's allegedly sent men to the moon...

    • Re:LOL (Score:2)

      by Rei ( 128717 )
      > sent men to the moon in the late 60's ... on bloody *HUGE* rockets ;) You can lob almost anything to space with a big enough rocket ;)
    • The thing is - when USA put people on the Moon in the 60s it was something they only just managed, and it nearly went wrong too. Barely managing to put somebody on Mars is simply not good enough if we are to establish ourselves in space.

      Lets face reality: we are reasonably good at sending up satelites that skip along atop our athmosphere, but that's about it. How far away is the ISS? A few hundred kilometers? We could drive there in a few hours if there was a road ;-)

      What we need is a situation where goin

  • America, meanwhile (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Is happy to note they may be able to get manned craft into space as early as late next year
    • You mean the American government may be able to get manned craft into space as early as late next year.

      Remember, Scaled Composites, a private American company, has just recently completed two manned flights into space. And through a partnership with Virgin Atlantic, they've already pre-booked quite a few future flights.

      If you really want America to take a commanding lead in orbital work and space exploration, close NASA. Within 12 months, every one of their scientists and engineers will be re-employed

  • NERVA-like designs (Score:4, Funny)

    by rbanffy ( 584143 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @01:12AM (#10697374) Homepage Journal
    Maybe they could develop (or copy) a NERVA-like design such as the one Pratt & Whitney has shown about a week ago.

    If I remember correctly, the Chinese government never signed anything that forbids them putting fission reactors in orbit.
    • Once took a course in college taught a couple ex-NASA and JPL scientist called "Design your own space mission". Our team chose Mars and was shocked to see many of the needed technologies existed on the shelf including nuclear rockets. Main problems still are with the Human body like radiation exposure and the effects of long duration space travel.

      Anyway, here is the big problem with nuclear rockets: getting them into LEO. At some point you have to launch the fuel. That tends to attract a lot of protes

      • As far as treaties, well, the United States has already set the precedent that international treaties are worthless (being fully prepared to renege on treaties with Russia over anti-missile technology).

        China doesn't have to worry about protesters if it wants to launch a nuclear-powered spacecraft - don't forget China is a totalitarian dictatorship, and protesters tend to get run over by tanks or get shot.
        • As far as treaties, well, the United States has already set the precedent that international treaties are worthless (being fully prepared to renege on treaties with Russia over anti-missile technology).

          That would be a shame if it were true, which it isn't. If you had read the ABM treaty, which you obviously haven't, you'd know why it was false...

  • Let me be the first (Score:3, Funny)

    by bckrispi ( 725257 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @01:14AM (#10697387)
    to welcome China to the mid 20th century.

  • China needs to join the ISS (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ryu2 ( 89645 ) * on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @01:18AM (#10697406) Homepage Journal
    Currently, the International Space Station [space.com] consists of pretty much every spacefaring nation on Earth, with the exception of China... due to US uncertainty over its motives. So China is planning to go its own way, build its own station, etc.

    I don't know about you, but as a Chinese living in the USA, I would really like for China to join the ISS -- we don't need another Cold War style space race, and cooperation with the world will, I believe, lead to greater transparency and scrutiny of China's space program anyhow.

    Indeed, it's absurd that China is currently one of only two nations with a operational manned spaceflight capability, but isn't allowed to join the ISS -- when the ISS is suffering from major logistical resupply problems due to the grounding of the shuttle.

    China has, for years, been on a path from isolation back in the 1950s and 1960s, to being a part of the world community in many ways. The US needs to ditch its outdated paranoia, or else the other nations (Russia, EU, etc) need to grow some balls and admit China into the consortium for the benefit of all sides concerned.
    • i'll give you three reasons the US shouldn't let China join the ISS:

      1. Taiwan
      2. Tibet [savetibet.org]
      3. East Turkistan [uhrp.org] (Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region)

      say what you will but at least most Iraqis are glad the US invaded, and want us to stay for a while. oh, and we let them protest and practice their religion.

      • say what you will but at least most Iraqis are glad the US invaded, and want us to stay for a while. oh, and we let them protest and practice their religion.

        Friend, you must be joking. They aren't glad we invaded. As for freedom, they don't really have that, either. Ask them how free they are to support a non occupation-approved political faction, such as, for example, an Islamofacist one. Do you think US soldiers will wait around in an Iraqi warzone to see if, for example, a demonstration in favor of

      • Hmm, I wonder what does Taiwan problem has to do w/ ISS (I'm not politician, though. Thankfully). US does have death penalty, UK has N.Ireland, Russia is full of it, but that does not preclude other countries from cooperating with them.
        • Oh come on, how can you possibly compare Russia's valiant fight against terrorism for example in Tchetchenia with China's cruel rule over Tibet? Or compare China's stand against Taiwan with US embargo of evil Cuba? Can't you see China does not deserve to have any international co-operation, and their space flight capacity should actually be bombed to dust! /sarcasm
    • Well I think there's more reasons tha just US parinoia. I'm sure that's part of it, but there are some other reasons:

      1) Putting a rocket in space isn't the same as having the capability to put on up, dock with a space station, and run extended missions. China will get there soon, I've no doubt, but as of yet, they aren't really of any use. This week-long mission is a good step in the right direction. Once they get down longer missions, there is real possibility for working with a space station.

      2) Much lik
    • You sez:

      "China has, for years, been on a path from
      isolation back in the 1950s and 1960s, to
      being a part of the world community in many
      ways. The US needs to ditch its outdated
      paranoia, or else the other nations (Russia,
      EU, etc) need to grow some balls and admit
      China into the consortium for the benefit of
      all sides concerned."

      You've hit the bullseye, man !

      What else can the ball-less do ?
    • we don't need another Cold War style space race

      Except that the 1960/1970's era cold war won't happen again. Power in the 1960/1970s was concentrated into the US govt and the USSR govt.

      Today, there's too much distributed power.

      I watched an old James Bond movie [klast.net] not too long ago with my kids. In one scene, the phone rings in the car, and Bond goes to answer it.

      My teen children, watching, had no idea that was even unusual, since between my wife, myself, and my household, we have 6 phone numbers, two of th

    • Here [slashdot.org] is a posting of mine on this topic. China has already approached the US and been rebuffed.

    • we don't need another Cold War style space race,

      No. This is exactly what we need. Scientific advancement has stagnated without adequate competition.

      I would really like for China to join the ISS

      The ISS is a floating garbage heap that costs billions but produces little to no scientific advancements other than practice for longer space missions. You should be glad China isn't bankrupting themselves on something so useless. When China overtakes the US is space technology and we are still clinging to ISS y

  • India and China (Score:3, Informative)

    by pagal_paanda ( 824030 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @02:08AM (#10697678) Journal
    It's good to see that China and India are getting their feet dirty in the Space Race. More information about India's Space program can be found at www.isro.org and its previous achievements can be found at http://www.isro.org/programmes.htm I wish them good luck. I just hope that China's Space program be as open as India's

  • So now that China has money to put men in space... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by character_assassin ( 773327 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @02:24AM (#10697740)
    ... does this mean that we can stop sending them economic aid? (http://www.tibet.ca/en/wtnarchive/2004/4/6_5.html [tibet.ca])
  • The day they are to return to earth, I saw we all don gorilla masks and give the "taikonauts" a wonderful surprise.

    Damn dirty apes!

  • "taikonauts" (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dan East ( 318230 ) on Tuesday November 02, 2004 @09:51AM (#10699751) Journal
    I'm curious why the occupation involved with the exploration of space must use names derived from the language of the country doing the exploring?

    In what way does "astronaut" convey that the explorer must be from the USA? Why the segregation? Because a precedence was set with "cosmonaut" during the cold war? Do russians and chinese use different names for the space explorers of other countries? Why doesn't the ESA have their own word in place of "astronaut"?

    Dan East

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