Physicists Finally Solve the Falling-Paper Problem 325
neutron_p writes "The so-called "falling paper" problem has long intrigued scientists. James C. Maxwell pondered the tumbling motions of playing cards in 1853. Why don't flat things fall straight down? Pieces of paper fall down, then rise into the air, then glide along, then again rise... It occurs in a seemingly chaotic manner. Now researchers at Cornell University have solved the falling paper problem by calculating the motions of a scientific journal page in flight and there were a few surprises." There's also a story in the Cornell Sun.
Yup (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yup (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.sciencenewsforkids.org/pages/puzzlezon
Re:Yup (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Yup (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Yup (Score:2)
She found special toilet paper that met these requirements and bought a roll for $85.
Wow, that must be some fancy-ass toilet paper...
Re:Yup (Score:3, Funny)
Like many firsts .. this one's been DONE BEFORE (Score:3, Informative)
Behavior of a falling paper.
Tanabe Y, Kaneko K.
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v73/i10/p1372
Re:Like many firsts .. this one's been DONE BEFORE (Score:4, Informative)
The site is already getting quite slow... (Score:5, Informative)
Image: The seemingly chaotic motions of this page from a scientific journal became part of a computer modeling exercise to show why flat things don't fall straight down., J. Wang and U. Pensavento/Cornell University. Copyright Physical Review Letters 2004
The same falling-paper principles apply, the physicists believe, to naturally flat things like leaves. If they are right, Wang and Pensavento may have finally solved the mystery of why autumn leaves depart from a neighbor's tree on a windless day . .
. . . rise into the air . . . . . . rise again . .
. . . glide along . .
. . . and have to be raked from yards that don't contain a single tree.
As Wang explains, "Leaves and paper fall and rise in a seeming chaotic manner. As they fall, air swirls up around their edges, which makes them flutter and tumble. Because the flow changes dramatically around the sharp edges of leaves and paper, known as flow singularity, it makes the prediction of the falling trajectory a challenge."
Among the first scientists to be intrigued by the behavior of falling paper was Scottish physicist James C. Maxwell, who pondered the tumbling motions of playing cards in 1853. But while Maxwell was a brilliant mathematician, he lacked the today's computer-modeling techniques, not to mention access to fast, powerful computers. Wang and Pensavento put those advanced tools to good use to show why the falling trajectory of thin flat things -- and the behavior of airflow and other forces -- is not predicted by the classical aerodynamic theory.
"There were a few surprises," Wang notes. "We found the flat paper rises on its own as it falls, which would not happen if the force due to air is similar to that on an airfoil. Instead, the force depends strongly on the coupling between the rotating and translational motions of the object."
Wang and Pesavento also showed that the falling-paper effect is almost twice as effective for slowing an object's descent, compared with the parachute effect (that is, if an object falls straight down). And that evidently benefits trees and other plants that need to disperse seeds some distance from the point of origin. Plants with flattened seedpods also take advantage of the falling-paper effect.
The research was funded by National Science Foundation, the U.S. Air Force Office of Scientific Research and the Packard Foundation.
Says the professor who does not use the falling-paper effect to grade student essays and forecast their future: "What is predictable is that as the autumn leaves tumble down, they drift in particular directions, depending on the way they turn. This may explain, Wang adds, "why you are getting the leaves from your neighbor."
Source: Cornell University
Re:The site is already getting quite slow... (Score:5, Informative)
The site is already getting quite slow... better save it here for posterity :-)
Or use the Coral cache version (remember, just appennd .nyud.net:8090 after the domain--I don't know why Slashdot doesn't do this more often): http://www.physorg.com.nyud.net:8090/news1630.html [nyud.net]
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The site is already getting quite slow... (Score:2)
Interesting. It better explains why deciduous (hardwood) trees tend to take over the coniferous (pine fores
Re:The site is already getting quite slow... (Score:3, Informative)
Of course, there are those cool trees with the whirly-bird seeds. I love those!
Note Air Force involvement (Score:3, Interesting)
I served in an Army psychological warfare unit in Viet Nam that had produced and delivered, by 1970, enough leaflets to cover the entire country of South Viet Nam to a depth of more than 6 inches.
Re:Note Air Force involvement (Score:3, Funny)
What is surprising is the reason the Air Force is so interested in this subject. Nothing related to aeronautical engineering or operational missions... They're looking to improve their staffing and paperwork flow. Because right now, throwing your Staff Summary package out the window at HQ appears to work better than walking the damn thing around directorate admin offices.
That's my prof! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:That's my prof! (Score:3, Insightful)
describe and find solutions to motion problems
maximize or minimize functions (e.g. optimizing the cost of producing something)
talk about any relationship between two variables that's close to zero
straighten out complicated functions to handle them with computers (e.g. Taylor-series)
I could go on and on about that.. Come on!
NewsFlash!! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:NewsFlash!! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:NewsFlash!! (Score:5, Funny)
--Mark
Re:NewsFlash!! (Score:2)
Bah. (Score:5, Funny)
This is just a rehash of an old study showing why open-faced peanut butter sandwiches always land face down.
Paper! (Score:5, Funny)
For example, if one butters one side of the paper, will it still land face down, even if it's floating about?
Since cats fall on their feet, what happens if you wrap playing cards on each of their legs? Will their happy flight downwards be interrupted by randomly flying limbs?
What if you wrap the cat in a piece of paper that has been formed to make a Moebius strip, butter the other side of the animal, then tie it together to another cat? I suspect this may be the way to create time travel or a perpetual motion machine.
I hereby ask everyone to funnel funds towards this dynamic Cat, Toast, and Paper Research. I approximate we have about 4 years to prepare to salute our new Paper Machie Strawberry Jelly Cat Overlords.
Re:Paper! (Score:5, Funny)
It's probably been asked before, but this gave me an idea: take a long strip of bread, butter one side of it, twist it and connect the ends to make a mobius strip, then drop it. What happens?
Re:Paper! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Paper! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Paper! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Paper! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Paper! (Score:2)
Re:Paper! (Score:2, Funny)
You win the award! (Score:2)
ROTFL!
This is the winner of the award "most interesting insightful funny joke on slashdot" ever.
Re:Paper! (Score:2)
"Has anyone combined this with other falling-object problems?"
A reference to this story.
"if one butters one side of the paper [...] Since cats fall on their feet [...]"
A reference to the ever-so-often-handed around buttered cat story. It's been cited dozens of times, but I've never found a good attribution. The earliest reference I can find is here:
http://w2s.co.uk/timo/jokes/joke1a.html [w2s.co.uk]
The person claims to have been the author, and an
Re:Paper! (Score:2, Informative)
cat falling in zero g [216.40.242.213]
It's a video of a cat on the "vomit comit". Most amusing. Get it before it's
Re:Paper! (Score:5, Funny)
You're theory is good, except that it fails to take into account the sheer impossiblity of attaching anything to a cat.
Re:Paper! (Score:2)
I just tested this, and no, it still lands butter side down.
I was unable to determine which buttered side it landed on, however.
Not quite what I expected (Score:2)
Usefulness (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Usefulness (Score:3, Funny)
Probably not, since it's unpredictable... which could translate to, say, random 30ft drops. Which would be rather unpleasant if you happened to be 29ft from the ground.
You'd need a parachute to deploy when you got close to the ground ;-)
Re:Usefulness (Score:3, Interesting)
But if you on the other hand had a parachute which somehow was made up of thousands or maybe millions of small pieces of flat objects which could rotate independently you might achieve the same effect, and the random falls would average out.
It is also reasonable to believe that the smaller the object the smaller the random drops.
My imagi
Re:Usefulness (Score:5, Interesting)
Again your caveat about not fully understanding the issues involved after reading a single non-technical article applies, but I got the impression that the phenomenon requires rotational and translational motion to be decoupled. Thus rotating independently may well be insufficient to allow for the effect of falling slower than via "parachuting".
Re:Usefulness (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Usefulness (Score:3, Insightful)
Kites do not work well as parachutes.
Re:Usefulness (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Usefulness (Score:5, Funny)
Step 1: Flatten self into a 1mm-thick sheet.
Step 2... Uh, actually, we seem to be running into a problem at step 1.
Re:Usefulness (Score:5, Funny)
The flattening is not the problem. That will be achieved. Timing is the problem.
You need to flat yourself _before_ you hit the ground.
Re:Usefulness (Score:4, Funny)
I think that the bigger problem is that you would want to *unflat* yourself afterwards...
Of course, if you could do that you could probably do without the parachute.
Re:Usefulness (Score:2)
Step 1: Flatten [others] into a 1mm-thick sheet.
Step 2: ????
Step 3: Profit!
Re:Usefulness (Score:2)
Or about 20 feet from the ground you'd flip up and over, and slam into the ground at about 80 mph.
It'd be the MS Windows of parachutes.
Re:Usefulness (Score:3, Informative)
But I suspect that what they call the normal "parachuting" effect is what occurs with round parachute, now modern parachute are wing-like so they are more efficient..
Now I'm not sure because of the imprecise wording of the articles
Re:Usefulness (Score:2)
Re:Usefulness (Score:2, Informative)
To slow down the descent you still want a good ol fashioned parachute to come out.
Re:Usefulness (Score:2)
Re:Usefulness (Score:2)
Re:Usefulness (Score:3, Informative)
We already have "flat parachutes," they're called air foils - and, yes, they do provide a slower descent than a penumbral parachute.
But .... (Score:4, Funny)
They used a scientific journal page... (Score:4, Funny)
Simple Solution... (Score:2, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Navier Stokes Equation (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Navier Stokes Equation (Score:3, Funny)
Well from personal experience I know that if she has not waxed then there will be a major reluctance to be a smoothie on my part. So the answer is yes.
Where's my million bucks?
Re:Navier Stokes Equation (Score:5, Funny)
Hmm. Tell you what... I'll submit a "yes" and you submit a "no" and whichever of us wins will split the money with the loser. Sound like a good deal?
rolloverrover (Score:5, Insightful)
This might be useful for future Rover missions (or, um Beagle missions). You'll lose accuracy, but at least you wouldn't hit the ground like a falling rock.
Re:rolloverrover (Score:2, Interesting)
Or maybe for falling capsules [nytimes.com]...(just in case someone plugs something in upside down)
Related Stories (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Related Stories (Score:4, Funny)
buttered toast is flat (Score:2, Funny)
Of course, this still doesn't mean we can get a perpetual motion engine by strapping said toast to a cats back, but we can hope !
I see a new form of energy just round the corner, CatToastOnics !
Re:buttered toast is flat (Score:5, Funny)
Now they need to fix the Falling Genesis Problem (Score:2)
Original pages... (Score:5, Informative)
A bit of clarification (Score:5, Informative)
A specific example of this is the sycamore seed. As a matter of fact, landing a helicopter without motor assistance is called "the sycamore landing". It utilizes the exact same theory these phycisists has explained. So - It's not the theory that's new - it's the level of detail.
Re:A bit of clarification (Score:5, Informative)
For those interested, I believe the maneuver is more commonly referred to as an autorotation [fact-index.com].
Re:A bit of clarification (Score:5, Insightful)
Some people have made comments about using tumbling motion to build better parachutes - it probably wouldn't work for a parachute because a parachute requires some attachment of the load to the sheet, and that attachment will prevent the tumbling motion from happening, both by preventing the tumbling and also by loading specific points on the sheet instead of having the load effectively equally distributed.
Now I Can... (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe now I can bill him for raking...
Brandon Petersen
Get Firefox! [spreadfirefox.com]
Good news for Disney and DreamWorks (Score:2)
Classic problems (Score:2)
It's not that understanding particle physics is not useful. What bugs me it that it was done at the cost of neglecting other equally important areas of physics.
Re:Classic problems (Score:4, Insightful)
We still can't solve the three-body problem analytically (except for some special cases), and thats been around for 400 years. And its not for lack of trying.
However, only within the last 50 years or so could we make approximations to the solution that work for long enough to be interesting and give insight into the problem. It's the availability of computers that makes it possible.
Fluid dynamics is a hot topic in astrophysics right now (simulating stars, gravitational collapse of nebulae, accretion discs and jets around blackholes,
So I don't think that this was a 'problem left behind', as much as a problem which is just now becoming solvable. (Part of) the reason we spend billions on particle physics and not on this sort of problem is that the minimal 'thing' to advance the science in particle physics costs billions, whereas nowadays one can run fairly large-scale simulations (of classical systems) on a $2000 laptop: the biggest cost for those problems is hiring students/postdocs/professors to work on them. So really there what funding enables is diversity in the problems being tackled (how many laptops can you afford? how many grad students?), rather than the speed at which any one particular problem is solved.
Of course, this isn't true of some problems (quantum systems) which you really do need 1000 cutting edge systems all networked together to solve even a simple problem. In that case, you're going to have to be willing to throw a fair amount of money at the problem before you can see any progress.
They do fall straight down... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:They do fall straight down... (Score:3, Interesting)
I have actually seen the real thing. In connection with our faculty there is a small museum. Among other things they have two vacuum tubes that can be turned upside down. In one there is a feather in the other there is a stone. Interesting to see them fall at exactly the same speed.
Pesavento? (Score:2)
I wonder if Wang means somethign related.
This paper is full of wind... (Score:2)
Actually as silly as this paper seems it reminds me of Einstein's explanatation of Brownian Motion. Published the same year as his Special Relativity paper it was titled "On the Motion--Required by the Molecular Kinetic Theory of Heat--of Small Particles Suspended in a Stationary Liquid". I doubt this paper is as significant, but it may not be as trivial as it sounds when reported in laymans terms either.
I'm surprised at what surprised these guys... (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyone who has ever thrown playing cards, frisbee, venetian blind bomerang (you have to be old enough to have had wooden venetian blinds as a kid) would not be surprised at the quoted 'surprise'.
Ignoble Awards 2004/5 (Score:3, Funny)
Experiment with a Ruler (Score:4, Funny)
With any luck it will fly around a bit, swoopishly. The circulation caused by the back-spin generates lift, same as airfoil-shape induced circulation (faster airflow on top, slower on the bottom) as per that well known Kutta-Joukowski formula s * b * mu * gamma.
Which is apropos of nothing. Also, the Navier-Stokes equations can't be solved around a singularity like the edge without a simplification which usually takes the form of an assumed boundary layer of some sort (probably laminar at these Reynolds numbers which makes it a lot easier). Also, N-S is initial-condition sensitive because the solutions have bad scale missmatch, so you'll want to use your duodecaduple precision math library.
I didn't really understand from the blurb if they were talking about bendy things like paper pages. That would make it a fluid-structural coupled problem. Very tricky. The hardest part of that is getting the fluids guys to return the structures guys' phone calls.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Umm... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Umm... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Umm... (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember, Civil Engineers make the targets, Mechanical Engineers (or TAM nerds) make the bombs.
Re:Umm... (Score:2)
Re:Umm... (Score:2)
Re:Umm... (Score:2, Flamebait)
Just two words for you: Dumbass Retard.
Thank you.
Re:Umm... (Score:3, Funny)
Congratulations. Within the span of two words you have personally offended (along with the parent poster):
HTH. HAND.
Re:Umm... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Umm... (Score:3, Funny)
OTOH, curing cancer is a pseudoscientific attempt to interfere with the clear intention of the divine. In fact, by curing cancer, and going beyond the understanding of the divine to the prideful attem
Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. (Score:2)
Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. (Score:5, Interesting)
There is no evidence that the physicist and the mathematician received any extra money here. They probably are both lecturers (someone already posted about having the mathematician for a class). They may well be doing the research part in their free time. If you have a problem with that, maybe you should stop reading
For that matter, why aren't you criticizing smokers? Not only do they make themselves more likely to get cancer, they also take frequent breaks to smoke. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that smoke breaks take more time than the sum total of cancer research. Eliminating smoking would free up physicians who are currently working on cancer to do research and provide more time for non-physicians to do maid work, etc. to free up physicians to concentrate on their cancer research.
The results of physics research also free up people by cutting costs in other areas. If we still had a hunter/gatherer economy, we wouldn't be able to waste people on non-essentials like medicine, much less medical *research*. Not to mention the point that the advances in understanding chaotic systems may be applicable in areas other than physics (e.g. medicine). While statistical analysis (from mathematics!) suggests possible causes of cancer, we still don't understand what actually happens.
Re:Better Parachutes? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Once again, I will remind the scientific commun (Score:3)
Re:Once again, I will remind the scientific commun (Score:3, Interesting)
How about selling your computer and feed some children in nigeria with the money?
Would have the nice side-effect that we wouldnt have to hear your wise-ass remarks.