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Space Science

Planning Phase Complete For Indian Moon Mission 391

Posted by timothy from the good-luck dept.
alphakappa writes "According to news reports, India's low-cost moon mission -- Chandrayan -- has completed its planning phase and will be deployed in 2007-2008 as planned. The interesting aspect is that the entire mission is expected to cost only around USD 88 million. How do you think space technology will change as a result of these low cost missions, satellites and space vehicles?"
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Planning Phase Complete For Indian Moon Mission More

Planning Phase Complete For Indian Moon Mission

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  • Low cost (Score:5, Funny)

    by ByteSlicer ( 735276 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @04:38AM (#10371332)
    They will outsource the whole project to themselves...

  • Unmanned mission (Score:3, Insightful)

    by caston ( 711568 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @04:42AM (#10371346)
    Well according to the article "Chandrayan" is an unmannded mission. This is nothing compared to a real moon landing like the Apollo missions of last century. It really should be straight forward and have low costs especially as the technology is steadily reaching commodity status.

    • Was there really a need for a maned mission? Would not a rock colecting probe (like the russian one) do? I think US just payed for a very expensive show.
    • Note that a manned mission is estimated to cost $2.2 billion. It's cheap because it's unmanned. That's all. And I'm wondering if it will even return to Earth or just stay on the moon transmitting data (like the probes on Mars).
    • Don't let anybody say I wasn't supportive of this mission.

      Here's to India!
      May your best initial efforts be equally as successful as the first Apollo mission!

  • Space travel in the hands of the masses (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mind21_98 ( 18647 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @04:44AM (#10371354) Homepage Journal
    $88 million is only a start. As space technology improves, expect to see greater cost savings and possibly very inexpensive space travel to anyone who wants it. But first, we need to increase reliability and speed of our current space vehicles. Otherwise, the cost savings would not be worth it.

  • ISRO... (Score:5, Informative)

    by manavendra ( 688020 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @04:51AM (#10371380) Homepage Journal
    ...or Indian Space Research Organization, was setup in 1969.

    ISRO has established space systems like the:
    • INSAT for telecommunication, television broadcasting and meteorological services
    • Indian Remote Sensing Satellites (IRS) for resources monitoring and management

    ISRO has also developed the satellite launch vehicles PSLV and GSLV to place these satellites in the required orbits.

    Here's [isro.org] the complete list of ISRO's geostationary satellite system

  • I'd take this annoucement with a grain of salt (Score:4, Insightful)

    by theskeptic ( 699213 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @04:52AM (#10371384) Journal
    Why?

    India was denied cryogenic engine technology(for the heavy satellites it launches(which is currently done by Ariane x) in 1992/3 by Russia because of the dual use potential.

    So India started developing its own cryogenic technology. It was supposed to be ready by 1999. Now, 12 years later, it is still not completely ready. Its gotten there 60-70 % but there is still a ways to go.

    Unless you see an actual launch in 2007 of this moon mission I would be skeptical.(Forget moon mission, sending a man into orbit itself will be a big deal for India, moon mission is a far off dream(pun intended.))

    China took a long while to send a man into orbit. India is going to take an even longer time to achieve that. 2007 isn't even that far away when talking about time frames for space programs.

    And finally, when the heck were space programs within on close to their budget? 88 million? More like 500-900 million $.
    Until then its speculation, speculation and more speculation. Geddit?

  • change as a result of these low cost.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Tailhook ( 98486 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @04:54AM (#10371393)
    Lost cost space;
    Some Indian engineer will confuse grams for Tola's and the thing will auger into the moon at 68.0e4 kph.

  • Was waiting for this... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rsidd ( 6328 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @04:56AM (#10371404)
    6 comments and already half of them are whining about why can't India spend money on education and hospitals. So the USA and Europe have no poor people, no uneducated people, no sick people who can't afford healthcare? News to me. Any number of recent stories on slashdot have talked about spinoffs from India's space programme that have helped, and are helping, the Indian people (satellite education, improved weather forecasting and cyclone alerts, remote sensing and crop monitoring, etc...) And has it occurred to you that the moon project could be a money winner in the long run, if India can do it cheaper and better than others? India is already getting a non-negligible share of the satellite launch business, as well as saving a lot of money by doing its own launches instead of depending on Ariane and others. But no, next time an India story comes, it will be another "oh look at all those poor illiterate people, why are they running a space programme" flood of comments, mainly from Americans who're hardly literate in their native language, judging by the writing samples on display.
    • Thats OK, we were all waiting for a whiny kid to start complaining about posts so we can target our own little space based "programme" towards his home.

      Maybe were just "who're"s anyways.
    • Good point...

      (Wasting karma here)

      Eisenhower once said:
      "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

      So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that everything we spend money on is a waste to those who have none.

    • India's space programme that have helped, and are helping, the Indian people (satellite education, improved weather forecasting and cyclone alerts, remote sensing and crop monitoring, etc...)

      You missed the main thrust of my comment. I said that because India's infrastructure was struggling to handle the country's growth and that growth was accentuating social problems (rural/urban, rich/poor), the money would be better spent rectifying these so India's economic progress had some stability behind it. Your

  • Ooh, ooh, I know! I know! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Mirk ( 184717 ) <slashdotNO@SPAMmiketaylor.org.uk> on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @05:07AM (#10371453) Homepage
    From the article:
    How do you think space technology will change as a result of these low cost missions, satellites and space vehicles?

    I think it'll get cheaper.

    • With real competiot it will really get cheaper. Launch prices are so high that Ariane program got back to the funding sates more than 20 times more money that they put in. I think it is time for them to take in account new competion from sates like China, India and Brazil and to settle only for 3-4 times the money. This exagerated launch costs take a heavy toll on the satellite business and space exploration projects.

  • Standardised components, hopefully (Score:4, Insightful)

    by RangerFish ( 770981 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @05:08AM (#10371458)
    Spacecraft have always been custom built for the task. While this may have its advantages, it also means that you are constantly reinventing the wheel - a costly and often unreliable process (Witness the Genesis and Beagle 2 probes).

    I have always believed that the way to reign in costs of space missions is to use standardised components - you use the same delivery/landing system until you have something thta's proven to be better.

    That means that companies can make thousands of the same components cheaper because they don't have to spend money redesigning them or resetting their production machines. The problems with each component are also well understood and can be planned for because of the extra experience with them, meaning a higher chance of success with each mission.

  • Click here for a little more (Score:5, Informative)

    by PhrozenF ( 205108 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @05:09AM (#10371464)
    This article here [quicknews.org] has a little more info about the lunar mission, and a small backgrounder on the EDUSAT, which was covered on Slashdot last week.

  • NASA Outsourcing (Score:3, Funny)

    by deunan_k ( 637851 ) <knute@deunan.BOHRcom minus physicist> on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @05:15AM (#10371487) Homepage
    Maybe NASA needs to closely follow this development. Political consideration aside that is, if they want to consider methods for cost-effective of exploring the Final Frontier.

    I mean, they've outsourced all sorts of IT and Tech-related jobs to India, why not also the various NASA Space Programs, at least the small but expensive components.

  • Planning-phase: Completed! (Score:5, Funny)

    by 10Ghz ( 453478 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @05:16AM (#10371492)
    1) Go to space
    2) Land on the Moon
    3) Go back to Earth

    There, I finished planning-phase of my personal lunar-mission. Really, it's not that hard.

    I wonder that is the fourth step "Profit!"?

  • Its great! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Well, it is a great achievement for India. It is of great Indian pride. and I fully support it. As someone pointed out, calculate the cost per person and it comes out to 8 cents per person. Thats so cheap.
    Most of the responses here are "why? what's the need? first take care of poverty.... blah blah" But many people just see india as place to outsource projects. Well, this is mission is just to prove India's ability to the world what it can do even if other nations don't give some technolgy to India. It is m

  • Conspiracy Theory (Score:4, Funny)

    by cnb ( 146606 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @05:26AM (#10371531)
    This is actually a program secretly funded by the evil Indian Software companies to quickly get Indian developers flown cheap to US companies like Google setting up offshore research centers on the moon [google.com]. :-P

    - cnb

  • Funny.. (Score:5, Informative)

    by manavendra ( 688020 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @05:38AM (#10371577) Homepage Journal
    ..rather interesting to see the most highly-rated comments on /. are those who deride the Indian space programme and yelp about the poverty and the living conditions, and expound the wealth of their knowledge about how this 88 mil could be used towards creating more hospitals and so on.

    How many of you know about India's space programmes though?

    Did you know that India has been working on space programmes since the 60's [nti.org]?

    Or that it had a comprehensive [isro.org] space progamme, that included a satellite system, a remote sensing satellite system, polar satellite launch vehicle and Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle ?

    Or that when United States arm-twisted [flonnet.com]Russia in April 1992 and July 1993 not to sell the cryogenic technology know-how to India.

    Or that India's cryogenic engine came of age [goodnewsindia.com] on April 18, 2001 when India bustled into the exclusive GSL club?

    • Re:Funny.. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Ohreally_factor ( 593551 )
      Does it surprise you that most slashdotters are racist?

      • Re:Funny.. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by irix ( 22687 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @11:02AM (#10373687) Journal

        I'm sure some poeple on /. are racist, but get a reality check. Most people are just ignorant. If the article was about Canada trying to send a probe to the moon, do you think that most people would have the first clue about the Canadian space program [space.gc.ca] and its accomplishments [space.gc.ca]? I'm sure we'd be getting lots of uninformed comments and jokes (the usual regarding beer, hockey, high taxes or how we pronounce something), but no accusations of racisim.

        Just beacuse people don't know anything about the Indian space program or conditions in India in general doesn't make them a racist.

    • Or that India's cryogenic engine came of age on April 18, 2001 when India bustled into the exclusive GSL club?

      It is still an impressive development. However, the cryogenic engine that they are using is a Russian import [space.com]. The Indians build their own fuel tank and pumping system... Quote from the article "India is using the (Russian) engine as a component in the GSLV, but without a technology transfer." "It is a technology which has never been used by India before," Narasimha (Director of Indian National

  • I am suggesting to change the project name from chandrayan to search for US flag.
  • Mars polar lander for example, including all the after costs, was only $328 million, and that was for a MARS mission, and a LANDER, not an orbiter.

    http://www.solarviews.com/eng/msur98.htm

    "The Mars Surveyor '98 program spacecraft development cost 193.1 million dollars. Launch costs are estimated at 91.7 million dollars and mission operations at 42.8 million dollars. "

    So an $88 million estimate sounds about right.
    • http://www.cnn.com/1999/TECH/space/12/08/mars.revi ew/

      "Combined, the 1998-99 crop of Mars missions -- Climate Orbiter, Polar Lander and Deep Space 2 -- cost about $320 million. That's about a 10th the cost of the Viking mission that successfully landed two spacecraft on the red planet in 1976."

      So $83 million should be plenty to do this mission.

  • Well done! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jandersen ( 462034 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @06:42AM (#10371811)
    Well done, India, that's what I say.

    I've seen a lot of the other comments, which are all along the lines of general - and stupid - derision, asking 'why, oh why'. Yes, India has many problems with poverty etc, but so has USA, Russia and China; in fact Europe are the ones that have the best record on those issues, so perhaps only Europe should ever send things into space, don't you agree?

    No I think all these objections are more to do with the fact that India is not America and most Americans hate the fact that others are able to do these things and rely on themselves rather than the scraps the US allow them. There was the same sort of sentiment when the European equivalent of GPS was launched: 'Why, oh why'.

    Well I'll tell you why:

    1. It's not American - people in the world often prefer to do things independently of America, often because they don't trust the benevolence of America.

    2. In the case of India's space program - China and India are rivals in many areas, they are both on the verge to take the place at the top economically in the world. China has put a man in space and annouced plans to put one on the moon, and India feel they have to demonstrate that they can do it too.

    • Apocrypha : the answer to "why?" (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Kenneth Stephen ( 1950 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @08:56AM (#10372526) Journal

      Disclaimer : the following anecdote was not verified by me first hand, but given what I know, it sounds very reasonable.

      Circa 1978, the Morvi dam in the state of Gujarat burst. The flooding and the resultant loss of life and property was huge. The event made front-page headlines in India. One of the more curious aspects of this incident was apparently that the Indian government was clueless about the occurrence of this disaster, but the US spy satellites in orbit detected the event. The Indian government was informed by the US about the disaster.

      At that time, ISRO (the Indian space agency) had been in existence for many many years - but their funding was more of an afterthought. This incident opened the eyes of many to the strategic value of a space presence. As a result, circa 1982, India put its first satellite into space.

      People in the US may not appreciate the usefulness of a space presence. The following information was gleaned from a documentary funded by the UN :

      India went onto launch many more satellites - a lot of of them for weather forecasting. The neighbouring country of Bangladesh is located in the delta of two major rivers. Flooding is a perpetual annual problem. Subsequent to the Indian weather satellites being available, the UN sponsored the use of the weather forecasting data that was available to provide an early warning system for flooding due to cyclones (known as hurricanes in the US). The first year this was done, the loss of life was 150,000. The previous year it had been 300,000. And no, I am not making these numbers up.

  • The president of India (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mparar ( 764109 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @08:11AM (#10372219)
    The president of the country is a missile scientist and has been involved in many of the most significant adavances in the Indian missile/nuclear field. http://www.geocities.com/siafdu/kalam.html Although, in the Indian system, the president has few executive responsibilities and powers (the prime minister is the head of government), the amount of respect bestowed upon the man is a sign that scientific accomplishment is held in high regard in the country. Little wonder that this mission and other high technology endeavors do get their well deserved allotment of resources. -mp-

  • How Did Yugo Change Cars? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by reallocate ( 142797 ) on Tuesday September 28, 2004 @08:52AM (#10372493)
    You might have asked how the Yugo's low cost would change the cars we drive.

    Let's see if it works, first.

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