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Space

Space Shuttles Survive Hurricane Frances 268

Posted by timothy from the frances-doesn't-call-doesn't-write-just-storms dept.
maggeth writes "In an update to a previous story, NASA damage assessment teams have begun work at the Kennedy Space Center, which was hit by Hurricane Frances. It appears that there was no damage to any of the space shuttles, according to the first word from NASA. Although more details still are to be released, we know that Frances died down in strength before making landfall, limiting the amount of wind damage." Reader knix writes, though, that "It looks like NASA did have quite a bit of damage from Hurricane Frances," pointing to an AP story which adds some detail, and noting that besides a knocked over Mercury-Redstone rocket, the massive VAB (Vehicle Assembly Building) had 1000 panels missing after the storm hit. According to the AP, "The holes left by the missing panels created 40,000 square feet of 'open window' on two sides of the building."
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Space Shuttles Survive Hurricane Frances More

Space Shuttles Survive Hurricane Frances

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  • Good News! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) * <akaimbatman@gmaiBLUEl.com minus berry> on Monday September 06, 2004 @06:52PM (#10172473) Homepage Journal
    This is extremely good news! As I said previously, [slashdot.org] if we had lost any of the orbiters, the shuttle program would be over. And if the shuttle program is over, manned space flight as we know it would be over. While many think that the shuttle is a very poor vehicle (actually it's amazingly engineered, but always lacked a real purpose), having it around pushes Congress to fund something simpler and cheaper.

    • Rotten news. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Shivetya ( 243324 ) on Monday September 06, 2004 @07:00PM (#10172552) Homepage Journal
      Manned spaceflight is essentially over as the shuttles survived and will further suck money and life out of NASA. As for losing the shuttles being the end of the space program I would disagree. Sure having them means we have "manned missions" but they also put us at an increased risk of having NO MORE. If one more shuttle goes, then what???

      It is an amazingly engineered vehicle, over engineered. It also is nothing more than a jobs program for NASA and a bunch of support companies who all are based in areas with important Congressmen shoveling money for votes.

      Kill the shuttle, I just wish nature had so an accident didn't. It would be better to have 3 orbiters for display around than the country than 2 or less.
      • This wasn't the way to go about grounding the shuttle. If the shuttle itself were damaged, then recovering would be easy, perhaps even with a new fleet of something better.

        But, if that building had been destroyed, where would we build that new fleet?

        • Re:Rotten news. (Score:3, Informative)

          by The_K4 ( 627653 )
          The Shuttle's were NOT built in Flordia. Many of the components were (and still are) made in CA, although much of the assambly is done in FL. Also, if we are going to build a new state of the art ship, let's build a new hanger/repair bay to go with it!

      • Re:Rotten news. (Score:3, Insightful)

        by dafoomie ( 521507 )
        If we lose the Shuttle now we lose the Hubble.

        Better off having the shuttles now and replacements on the way than nothing at all until something new comes along. And in either scenario there wouldn't be anything on the horizon for at least a decade.
    • Now many Slashdotters will claim it's extremely bad news, for exactly the same reason.

      My take... If you really disbelieve in NASA and the Shuttle that much, ANYTHING that happens is irrelevant. Because the only thing that will make you happy is shutting down NASA completely, because you have no faith in any of their manned space initiatives.

      Watching Slashdotters discuss space is about like seeing the same thing on sci.space.tech. EVERY launch proposal is TERRIBLE, to the others. The only difference is tha
    • having it around pushes Congress to fund something simpler and cheaper.

      Congress? simpler and cheaper? have you ever read a U.S. newspaper?

      If congress does anything to change the status quo, the change would probably be more complicated and more expersive!

    • "And if the shuttle program is over, manned space flight as we know it would be over. While many think that the shuttle is a very poor vehicle (actually it's amazingly engineered, but always lacked a real purpose), having it around pushes Congress to fund something simpler and cheaper."

      Manned space flight has been over in any real sense since the shuttle's inception. All we've done is putter around aimlessly in earth orbit.

    • Re:Good News! (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Archibald Buttle ( 536586 )
      Open your eyes man!

      NASA has no monopoly in sending men into space.

      Russia still sends men into space and has a great deal experience in doing so. They have great technical knowledge in the field and built what many consider to be a superior shuttle vehicle, the Buran. Unfortunately they lack funding.

      China also have a space program and have sent a man into space. They're newcomers in the game, but they're working pretty hard.

      Then there's the X-Prize. Sure it's sub-orbital, but many of the competitors

    • Congress? (Score:2, Funny)

      by ackthpt ( 218170 ) *
      having it around pushes Congress to fund something simpler and cheaper.

      The way I understand it, later this week GWBush will personally take credit for the hurricane not destroying the shuttles and reinforcing his vision that everything is going to plan and, heck, we'll be landing on Mars any day now.

      (We'd be on Mars now, if the probes real intent, to find oil, had discovered anything, it's truly amazing how fast Halliburton can move when properly informed in advance while potential competitors have to s

  • DDDAAAAMMMNN (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ghettoboy22 ( 723339 ) * <scott.a.johnson@gmail.com> on Monday September 06, 2004 @06:53PM (#10172482) Homepage
    40,000sqf = almost an entire ACRE!!!!

    wow
    • What I want to know is why they built a big ass box... why not at least try and make it handle wind a bit better, say with 45 degree angles in the building, or perhaps even some curves... Something tells me those panels came off because they were square into the wind with huge pressure differences on the outside vs the inside...

      • Re:DDDAAAAMMMNN (Score:3, Informative)

        by Kiryat Malachi ( 177258 )
        VAB has its own weather systems inside. You really have no idea what the scale is without having been there.

        Look at it this way - you could stick Yankee Stadium on the roof and have some extra space left over.

        45 degree angles or curves are not going to change the fact that that is just a HUGE amount of square footage that would be facing into the wind, no matter what.

    • Re:DDDAAAAMMMNN (Score:3, Interesting)

      by antikarma ( 804155 )
      DDDAAAAAMMMNNN!!!

      40,000sqf = almost 10 sq. rods!!!!

      Where's my +5 Interesting?
    • Dammed Beavers [snopes.com]
  • ...Upon the arrival of the next large hurricane citizens should take refuge in the nearest space shuttle.
    • Once there was a golfer whose drive landed on an anthill. Rather than move the ball, he decided to hit it where it lay. He gave a mighty swing. Clouds of dirt and sand and ants exploded from the spot. Everything but the golfball. It sat in the same spot.

      So he lined up and tried another shot. Clouds of dirt and sand and ants went flying again. The golf ball didn't even wiggle.

      Two ants survived. One dazed ant said to the other, "Whoa! What are we going to do?"

      Said the other ant: "I don't know about you, bu
  • I'm curious if anyone could fill me in on why they chose Florida as their center for launching vehicles with the potential each year for hurricanes?
  • If the shuttles are meant to travel through the atmosphere a minimum of two times, and possibly more for a few, I should hope they can survive a little thing like a natural disaster. After all, if the US space program can be destroyed by a little thing like a hurricane, I shudder to think what an extraterrestrial disaster would do to us.
  • another one is headed that way now....

  • NASA maintenance (Score:4, Interesting)

    by glazed ( 122100 ) on Monday September 06, 2004 @06:58PM (#10172525)
    From what I've heard the maintenance budget probably won't even cover replacing the torn off panels.

  • Glad it happened now (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bblazer ( 757395 ) * on Monday September 06, 2004 @06:58PM (#10172534) Homepage Journal
    Given the safety cord and lack of oversight, it is good that if this had to happen, that it happened now, rather than when the shuttles were on 'active duty.' Now at least there isn't the pressure of a pending mission, and hopefully the engineers can have some time to thoroughly go over the orbiters to verify that there has been no damage.

  • Damn. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by DAldredge ( 2353 )
    Too bad, if they had been damaged perhaps progress would have been made on other methods to get to orbit that are just a little more efficient.

  • And Ivan is on the way (Score:5, Interesting)

    by blockhouse ( 42351 ) on Monday September 06, 2004 @07:09PM (#10172616)
    So the space shuttles survived Frances, huh? Good. But now, another hurricane looks to be barrelling down on them. Hurricane Ivan [wunderground.com] looks like it might be making an appearance in Florida next weekend. Shoot, at this rate, one hurricane per week, the shuttles may have a dozen or so hurricanes by the time hurricane season is over. If they can survive all of that, I'll be really impressed.

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday September 06, 2004 @07:09PM (#10172618)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Alan Shepard wasn't human?? (Score:5, Funny)

    by myc_lykaon ( 645662 ) on Monday September 06, 2004 @07:17PM (#10172678)
    Reading the AP article regarding the fallen rocket there is a photo with the caption: "A rocket similar to this was used to launch Alan Shepard on the first unmanned suborbital mission.
    • Don't be silly. They're merely referring to the well-concealed fact that Admiral Shepherd was a woman.
    • Others have stated that Alan was, in fact, a woman.

      Not true, he was a man and had LOTS of women (even though married).

      I just finished reading "Light This Candle" a biography of Shepard.

      Good insight into what drove the initial seven astronauts without the fake heroism of "The Right Stuff" which most of the Mercury seven hated.

  • 1,000 missing tiles? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Nebulo ( 29412 ) on Monday September 06, 2004 @07:32PM (#10172771)
    "... the massive VAB (Vehicle Assembly Building) had 1000 panels missing after the storm hit."


    Each of them a unique size and shape, no doubt.


    Eric in Seattle

  • screen doors

  • Duh (Score:4, Funny)

    by jrivar59 ( 146428 ) on Monday September 06, 2004 @07:56PM (#10172940)
    The damn things are designed [hypertextbook.com] to go 18,000 miles an hour. If 140mph wind caused problems, I'd want my money back.
    • They are designed to go that fast forward only. They will break apart if they go sideways or backwards at much lower speeds, not to mention that they aren't protected against flying sharp objects carried by said wind.
    • Your car is probably designed to go well over 100MPH. Why don't you go park it in a hurricane and see what happens?

  • don't worry..... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Kirbyisagorrilla ( 798827 ) on Monday September 06, 2004 @08:08PM (#10173019)
    "It appears that there was no damage to any of the space shuttles, according to the first word from NASA. " said by the same people who said," don't worry it was just foam"......
  • The National Hurricane Center [noaa.gov] is tracking Hurricane Ivan, which is currently on a path similar to the one that Frances just took. It's projected to be here by this weekend, if it does hit Florida (and if their predictions hold true). NASA has already stated that they won't even have time to put on a "band-aid" fix by then, so if Ivan hits, they've got very serious problems. FYI, I live in Orlando, due west of Kennedy Space Center, and I'm getting rather weary of tropical weather systems.
  • Something doesn't add up. If hurricanes were an actual threat to orbiters and other space vehicles, why would they build America's space port in frickin' Florida?

    They knew about Florida hurricanes in the 60's, when they decided to build up Cape Canaveral.

    They knew about Florida hurricanes in the 70's, when they designed the shuttle to fly from Cape Kennedy.

    They knew about Florida hurricanes in the 80s, when STS flight operations began.

    They knew about Florida hurricanes in the 90s, after the Challenger
    • I could be completely wrong about this, so take it with a grain of salt, but I believe the hurricanes this year are hitting areas of Florida that usually aren't as heavily affected.

    • The main launch point for American space missions is as far south as practical because that gives space vehicles the maximum boost from earth's rotation. At the equator, a spacecraft could pick up 1000mph for free (Well... not for FREE, it saps earth's rotational energy, but...). Given how chemical fuels can just barely get themselves into space, current rockets need all they can get.
  • I spend 1/2 the hurricane in Orlando, and the other half in fort lauderdale, and this was not a hurricane, even after landfall ( about 8 hours I belive) they changed it to a tropical storm. It was so tame we drove through most of sunday night 3 hours, and there was minimal damage, and I really have yet to understand what the "10 billion" in damages is from.
    • I'm not sure how you managed to miss everything (maybe you're a troll) but my house is about 10 miles inland from Jax beach, pretty darn far from the eye of the thing, and it was a mess enough right here. Boats and marinas tossed all to hell, trees on houses all over the place, and a few houses that just collapsed. And this was on the "far outskirts" of the thing. I have several friends with no electric right now and they won't have electric for several days.

      My sister is an insurance agent near Orland
  • I was wondering why they keep saying the shuttle is needed to complete the ISS, since Russia managed to get Mir up there without using a shuttle.. Any thoughts?

  • The panels were designed to pop out! (Score:5, Informative)

    by SonicSpike ( 242293 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @01:27AM (#10174720) Journal
    What they didn't report is that those panels were designed to pop out. They are like punch-out panels and they worked exactly as planned!

    When a hurricane comes there is a serious drop in pressure... well with a building that large (one of the most volumous buildings in the world) this creates a serious pressure differential and if parts of the building do not give, or of there is not some sort of equalization, then the whole thing would explode from the pressure.

    So they built a few thousand of these punch panels designed to pop out during a hurricane in order to save the building. I dont know why that wasn't in the article. These panels are on the north and south faces of the building and can be viewed here:

    http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/LARGE/GPN-2000-00 08 53.jpg
    (the brownish panels in the center section)

    and here:
    http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/MEDIUM/GPN-2 000-000 614.jpg

    Also if you don't think the building is all that large, look at the second photograph and notice the water tower ;-)

    I grew up in Orlando and knew many many people that were engineer types; I feel very fortunate.
    When I was in the Boy Scouts (yes I am an Eagle), I actually got a tour of the SSPF, the VAB, the SPF, and LP Complex 39-A. On this tour I learned about these panels.

    This wasn't the normal tour though. One of our Scoutmasters was in charge of designing the lav and the escape hatch for the SS and had basically unlimited access. We essentially got the VIP/Congressional tour. I actually got to touch, (and yes I mean physically touch), Columbia as I walked underneath it and around it. I was 5 ft from the SRBs, I got to stand on the launch pad, on the crawler, 5 ft from the Michealangelo module for the SS, and underneath one of their 205k ton cranes.

    That tour was something I will never forget for the rest of my life.

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