BYU Project to Silence Computer Fans 369
phunster writes "The New York Times has an article about Scott D. Sommerfeldt and his students at BYU who have created a noise suppression system for computer fans (drop of human blood required to read article). The technology is not new, he uses out of phase sound to substantially cancel out the sound of the fan. What is interesting is his implementation of the technique. While other systems place a microphone and speakers in the center of a room, he places four miniature speakers and microphones around the noise source itself. His results are promising."
Now THIS is just great... (Score:5, Funny)
BYU Project to Silence Computer Fans
We as /. computer fans have been discriminated for so long, that
you'd think that we, as computer enthousiasts, have had quite enough....
An NOW, these people that have been bullying us all along have invented a system that makes us keep our mouths shut... Just great...
Pills... must... take... pills...
Speak it, brother (Score:2, Funny)
Corporations try to silence some kid's website, Michael is falling over himself to denounce it. Corporations try to silence fans, and where is YRO? Not reporting on this, that's for certain. A clear double standard. Disgusting.
Re:Now THIS is just great... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Now THIS is just great... (Score:2)
Re:Now THIS is just great... (Score:2)
We've seen this story before (Score:4, Interesting)
We've seen this before here [slashdot.org].
Re:We've seen this story before (Score:3)
This one was posted by CmdrTaco and the other was posted by timothy.
Completely different.
Re:We've seen this story before (Score:3)
Completely different. :)
Re:We've seen this story before (Score:2, Redundant)
Maybe its not the fan. Keep the Horse in front!! (Score:5, Informative)
Maybe we should look at the fan design first. When Brushless-DC fans were first introduced in the early 1980's I evaluated most of the major brands. Blade shape and contour were major contributors to noise, but by far the worst was mounting the fan up against the panel wall with holes or a grill. Running slow also reduces noise. One company's blade design removed the high pitch wind noise and just left a low pitch rumble that sounded quieter than it was. Centrifugal "squirrel-cage" fans were much quieter than axial fans. Sleeve bearings were a little quieter than ball bearings, but had a much shorter life and will "freeze-up" once the oil dissipates. (I actually had this happen to my old computer.)Ball bearings get louder over time, but you'll replace your computer before then.
Power supplies can reduce airflow requirements considerably by better heatsinks and/or using the chassis for moving the heat away from the hot components. Once the real design issues are tackled, the bell-and-whistles approach could then be used to further reduce sound levels as necessary.
Dell mounts one fan deep inside the computer and the PS fan is quiet but near a wall. Six weeks ago I bought a Systemax and a Dell computer. Systemax sounded normally obnoxiously loud. Dell was so quiet, I thought it was not working, so I opened it to see if I could tell what was wrong. I was fooled by the sudden start of noise and then quiet.
frictionless, less turbulent fans? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Maybe its not the fan. Keep the Horse in front! (Score:3, Interesting)
Silent fans are a BAD thing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Silent fans are a BAD thing (Score:4, Informative)
If my CPU fan stops spinning my computer throws a tantrum you can hear from space.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Silent fans are a BAD thing (Score:2)
Re:Silent fans are a BAD thing (Score:2)
And besides, as others have suggested, there are better ways to monitor fans. And if you have several computers in your office and just one of the fans fails, how likely is it that you'll be able to hear the difference anyways? Especially if you're not listening for it?
Re:Silent fans are a BAD thing (Score:3, Funny)
I corrupted my dormmate as well. He said he had to turn on a fan to fall asleep over the winter break. \o/
oh PC! Humm me to sleep at night and bask me in your warm CRT light by day!
Re:Silent fans are a BAD thing (Score:3, Funny)
NY Times Random Generator (Score:2, Informative)
Not when you use this [majcher.com]
Just wear NR headphones (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Just wear NR headphones (Score:2)
Once we had a tornado warning and had to evacuate the top floors of the building - but I was blaring Jethro Tull into my Sony MDR-V600s.
Re:Just wear NR headphones (Score:2)
Re:Just wear NR headphones (Score:2)
NO CARRIER
nice (Score:4, Funny)
Re:nice (Score:2)
How about an effective one! (Score:3, Insightful)
If you create a fan that doesn't need water and guarantees performance of a water cooler, I think it'd be a hit. I have never the gotten blue screen of death from a noisy fan. Look on any forum, people are not complaining about noise. People are whining about overheating...
Re:How about an effective one! (Score:2)
Really? Then why is there a whole sub-culture of people working on quieting their PCs? You can now buy quiet PSUs, Quiet CPU coolers, and oversize case fans with variable speeds.
When I upgraded from celerons to athlon XPs, I was amazed at the noise generated by the cooling equipment. Then I swapped out a few parts, and I can hear my MP3s again. My PC used to sound like a cheap vacumn cleaner, now it's barely audible, quieter than most laptops. It really impro
Physics says it's nearly impossible (Score:2)
Re:How about an effective one! (Score:2)
Do we really want to know what's running through those tubes?
Re:How about an effective one! (Score:2)
Re:How about an effective one! (Score:2)
Maybe this isn't an issue for you, but that doesn't mean it isn't an issue. Have you ever been in a server room? Sometimes they are so loud you can't even hear yourself think. I live in a cramped appartment, and my computer is in my bedroom. Ideally I would like to leave it on 24/7 but it is too damn loud to sleep near, so I have to shut it
Re:How about an effective one! (Score:2)
Re:How about an effective one! (Score:2)
Obviously, you're only frequenting forums that cater to overclockers. Most of us in the real world have absolutely no trouble with our computers overheating. On the other hand, spending eight hours next to a noisy machine (and then, for most of us, going home and spending another ten...) to enough to convince us that quieter fans would be a great thing.
Re:How about an effective one! (Score:2)
Anyway, fans are only half the problem. You can run a thousand CFM through your coputer case and it could still overheat. Heat sinks are required to transfer the heat to the air effectively.
You can't have a heat sink larger than the computer itself. Not if you expect to sell them to anyone but a performance freak or machine farm. There are also practical limitations to the design of heat sinks that limit their size and shape. Heat sinks are
Re:How about an effective one! (Score:2)
Re:How about an effective one! (Score:2)
Re:How about an effective one! (Score:2)
Re:How about an effective one! (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Can the noise be more predictable? (Score:2)
Re:Can the noise be more predictable? (Score:2, Interesting)
I expect a lot of the same principles apply.
One potential source of noise is rough edges. So get the finest sandpaper you can find and smooth the blades on the fan. The problem is that since it's plastic, it won't help much. You might get better results from using a material that's polishable.
Next project... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Next project... (Score:3, Interesting)
Just politely tell them you aren't interested and they will politely leave. Mormon missionaries are not pushy.
I've practically had to call the cops to get rid of JW's.
Re:Next project... (Score:2, Funny)
4. Profit!
It's not the noise made by the fans... (Score:5, Insightful)
If only someone could suppress the disk noise..
Re:It's not the noise made by the fans... (Score:2)
A ballpen hammer will do the trick. But I know what you mean, my systems tend to have at least a three drive RAID in em. My co worker keeps going on about how I should get a MINI-ITX based system because you can run them fanless. He just dosn't seem to get that I cant hear the fans over the hard disks.
Re:It's not the noise made by the fans... (Score:2)
No-reg link (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/27/technology/circu its/27next.html?ex=1086235200&en=8355c13a3b4a8afa& ei=5062&source=GOOGLE [nytimes.com]
Yes, much simpler than.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wonderful. "Look, instead of paying an extra 50 cents for a higher quality quiet fan, you can use cheap fans and spend $25.00 in additional parts to make the computer quiet!"
*sigh*
Re:Yes, much simpler than.. (Score:2)
Re:Yes, much simpler than.. (Score:2)
Re:Yes, much simpler than.. (Score:3, Interesting)
higher quality, "quiet" fan [directron.com]
Hardly 50 cents. And, I doubt an IC, four mics and four small speakers would cost 25$ in parts.
You can engineer a fan with perfectly balanced blades, great bearings, and eliminate much of the mechanical noise due to vibration or friction. But what of the noise generated by the moving air itself? You can hear this clearly when you have a case full of "silent" fans, and it's every bit as annoying.
Re:Yes, much simpler than.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Yes, much simpler than.. (Score:3, Interesting)
One of the many things I don't understand about current computer hardware is the segregation between quiet/small/laptop and big/noisy/desktop/server components. If you can design a low-noise and low-power component, why limit its use to laptops and other portable/embedded devices?
I understan
Re:Yes, much simpler than.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yes, much simpler than.. (Score:2)
Quiet fans are harder than you'd think to make. Even if the motor and bearings are absolutely silent, the air itself moving through the fan enclosure makes a noise.
Re:Yes, much simpler than.. (Score:2)
Re:Yes, much simpler than.. (Score:2)
Well, if you have a very hot-running computer that really needs a noisy, high-RPM fan, it might be worth it. Yes, bigger (not faster) fans and cooler components would help more, but if you've just gotta have a dual Xeon workstation, and anything powerful enough to keep the thing running is bound to be noisy, then maybe a $25/fan prem
We need a context-free human language! (Score:3, Funny)
They don't need big burly henchmen. (Score:3, Funny)
Either way, problem solved.
Re:We need a context-free human language! (Score:2)
Wouldn't that require context-free humans?
Isn't that what the Patriot Act is all about?
Simple answer (Score:2)
Will the same technology... (Score:5, Funny)
Blood? (Score:3, Funny)
Does it have to be mine?
"Hey Bob, come here, I've got something cool to show you. Oh, and bring a thumbtack..."
Already proposed for cars (Score:2)
aMEN! (Score:2)
I think I speak for audio engineers everywhere when I say HALLELUJAH! This is a seriously practical and useful invention, hopefully it will be affordable!
My fans are silent (Score:2)
At least my fiancee is happy about that.
Fans (Score:2)
Mac G5: Lots of big, slow-turning fans... (Score:3, Interesting)
The Mac G5 approaches this problem by using lots of big, slow-turning fans. It's probably expensive, but I doubt that it's as expensive as active noise cancellation. And Apple did a very good job. The Mac G5 is not silent, but in normal operation it is quieter than any machine I've used since the fanless 1984 Mac and the Apple ][.
White noise degenerators... (Score:2)
[yes, I know it's not quite the same thing]
The bad news is... (Score:2)
I have always wondered (Score:3, Interesting)
Noise Cancelling Case Revisited (Score:2)
Text from article... (Score:2, Informative)
By ANNE EISENBERG
Published: May 27, 2004
THE constant drone of a computer cooling fan can be annoying. But a professor at Brigham Young University has taken an unusual step to mute this noise: more noise, produced in just the right quantities from tiny loudspeakers that surround the fan.
"We make anti-noise," said Scott D. Sommerfeldt, a physicist who created a noise suppression system with his students. It is the latest example of a technology called act
Does this cover HD noise? (Score:2)
Me, (Score:3, Funny)
Barring cost... why not just use the same... (Score:2)
Four? (Score:2)
This seems like the wrong way to solve this (Score:2)
As others have pointed out, quieting a single fan is only a small part of the battle. Unless that's the only moving part in your computer it seems like a bad idea to need a separate antinoise system for every noise source.
Instead, I would elect to design the case not only for airflow but also for noise "flow". I'd spray panels with some kind of dense material - automotive undercoat might work fine, or barring that, spray-on bedliner. Or, I would use an adhesive panel such as dynamat. This has the signif
How about the people on my bus? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd be happier if I could cancel the noise coming from the other people on my bus. There are days where I get off the bus ready to kill something.
Eliminates inane chatter! Loud cellphone talkers banished! Never hear the high-frequency noise of other people's headphones! Buy now, only $29.95!
I would sprain my wrist trying to get my wallet out to pay for it fast enough.
HBHLess Expensive Solution... (Score:2)
About the same time, I noticed that my computer began actng strngly though so maybe ths wsnt teh bsts srlstuion aftr ahl....?
** NO CARRIER
The solution is DIY (Score:3, Interesting)
Between the 6-8 desktops and 2 laptops floating around my desk at any time, my noise quotient was pretty damn bad, even when I took most of them down to the bare minimums of fan noise. Yes, I could have replaced all my fans with nice quiet ones, or modded the cases for noise reduction, but then I'd have to do that with every case, every time I changed up.
The solution? I scored a cheap-ass enclosed LAN rack, got some cheap-ass wood cut for me at the store, and build my own LAN cases. The only fan in my entire 6'4" rack is a
My systems have never been cooler, the noise is so freakishly quiet that I'm still getting used to it, I've got more flexibility than I ever did, and with everything KVM'd, I've got a cleaner desk. Total cost? Maybe $200 CDN [insert "so that's $.05 US?" joke here]. And, on the bright side, with so much extra space in my cases, my mod list is getting bigger and bigger with all the nifty things I can do.
Sure, noise cancellation works in the short term, but 8 hours a day or more? I'd be worried that some slight imbalance somewhere might screw with my brain or break my ears.
Plus, my kick-ass blacklighted rack with piles of blinkenlichten is MUCH cooler than some wussy lil speakers.
My efforts to reduce PC noise (Score:3, Interesting)
Among the many reasons for having a hard drive in every computer, two of the big ones were the Microsoft vision statement, and the fact that the network was much slower than disk. The latter is no longer the case.
The fact that network is now faster than local disk is a MAJOR development.
We've experimented with RedHat 9 with nfs root on older hardware with no disk and no fans, with 100Mb bootable NICs. We found to our surprise that they ran faster than with standard (non UDMA) ide. So, we're trying it now with newer hardware and gigabit, and some BIG heatsinks. So far, so good. We can optimize the central storage for speed, and the systems do, in fact, run noticeably faster in most cases, in addition to being nearly* silent.
We hadn't counted on the added bonuses, but there are many. We can change an entire system disk by moving dirs, reexporting, and booting the machine up. Poof, new system. We can install and uninstall packages on machines while they're off! We no longer have two or three extra gigs on each machine, all our nfsroots are from a single physical filesystem (so far) so they all have the same amount of free space, much more efficient! And if a machine offends you, you can yank the plug out. No local fsck!
*Note that the machine is never truly silent. Without any fans or disks, you can still hear a certain noise that sounds like it's happening when the disk used to seek. It's the toroids in the power supply! The network traffic causes HF noise in the power lines, which is filtered in the power supply and causes the chokes to vibrate slightly. The noise is very low, it would easily be drowned out by the quietest of fans, but in a totally silent room with no other PC sound, it's quite audible. There is also some low and infrequent clicking while the machine is warming up and cooling down, due to the thermal expansion of the heat sinks. This doesn't happen during use, when the temperature is more or less constant.
I'm supposed to document all this and I've been lazy, so if you want the rundown on booting redhat 9 without a hard drive, write to me and I'll finish the page and send you the link.
Silence your hard drive, too (Score:2)
As well as silencing your computer fans, you can also silence your hard drive [bbspot.com]. Guaranteed you won't hear the sound of a whining hard drive ever again, or in fact any noise from your hard drive at all. One step closer to an all-silent computer system.
:-)
Doesn't Darl "unix" McBride.. (Score:2, Funny)
To all of you who love computers... (Score:2)
They may try to silence us, but they will fail.
We will not go quietly into that dark night, we will go kicking and screaming...
<sound of muffled voice whispering, patiently explaining>
oh, well, carry on then...
simpler alternative (Score:2, Informative)
I read that wrong (Score:2)
Doesn't work for me (Score:2)
Re:Okay... (Score:5, Interesting)
So would home theater machines
Listening to music on a PC would mean lower required volume
How about being to sleep with a PC on 24/7?
Re:Okay... (Score:2)
Re:Okay... (Score:2)
Re:Okay... (Score:2)
Then you're lucky. Many modern computers make a lot of noise -- sometimes even enough noise to make having conversations difficult. And they don't have to be servers. (Probably has something to do with the 60+ watt cpus people are using nowadays.)
Or suppose your computer is in your bedroom, and you leave it on overnight. Wouldn't it be nice if it were quieter? Even the fan and hard drive in my DTV Tivo are annoying at night -- and it's mu
Lucky (Score:2)
Caution on the 400SC with SATA: it won't boot from 3rd party IDE cards (such as you'd use for mirroring).
Re:Hah! (Score:2)
Re:noise cancellation (Score:5, Interesting)
Noise-cancellation as implemented by these systems relies on matching an equal in amplitude, but opposite in polarity, waveform, to the incoming acoustic wave. By combining a compression wherever there's a rarefaction and a rarefaction wherever there's a compression, you wind up with blissful silence. However, the nature of these systems dictates that the interference only happens at specific places; where the waveforms match exactly. If you could place your cancelling radiator at the same location in space as the unwanted radiator, with the exact same radiation characteristics, it would be great, but you can't. Instead, you get cancellations at certain locations and intensification of the noise at other locations.
Basically, due to acoustics, getting closer to the noise won't do you as much good as getting closer to the receiver of the noise. This is why NR headphones work great, and aren't hard to do, but NR for open environments is hard to do and doesn't work very well. No matter what you do, unless you can colocate the cancelling radiator, you will always make some parts of the freespace environment worse.
Re:noise cancellation (Score:2)
Active noise cancellation is different, and your statement is not usually true for active cancellation; ANC usually works better when you get the cancellation radiator closer to the receiver, as opposed to the noise.
Re:noise cancellation (Score:2)
Well, yeah. That is what I was wondering.
Sure, this works if you sample your engine noise and want a quiet passenger compartment. But does one really want to create standing waves around a cooling fan?
Re:Silence computer fans! (Score:2)
Wow. I remember that. That was the first computer that my dad owned. He used it to write the first edition of his book [barnesandnoble.com]. I remember playing the old Scott Adams adventures [wurb.com] on it when I was like 8 years old (30 now)