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Space Science Technology

What To Wear On Mars 122

Posted by timothy from the that's-so-2033 dept.
Roland Piquepaille writes "If men ever land on Mars, what will they wear to protect them from radiation, micrometeors and the very cold climate? Several students from the University of Alberta tackled the problem and designed space suits for Mars. Their prototype suit is composed of twelve layers of materials, including one made from Demron, a new nanotechnology material developed by a Florida-based company, Radiation Shield Technologies. The students and their professor, Dr. Barry Patchett, think their suit will largely be ready before real missions to Mars start in about twenty years. They also hope that NASA will pick their design. More details and references are available in this overview, including some illustrations."
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What To Wear On Mars More

What To Wear On Mars

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  • Jennifer Marcy (Score:5, Funny)

    by imag0 ( 605684 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @08:49AM (#9229104) Homepage
    Geek girl developing space suits. How hot is that?

    Man, i'd tap that radiation shielding if I had a chance ;)
  • There will be some people landing on Mars, for reasons of prestige. Putting people on Mars will be a histroic achievement, but I think it will be robots that actually get stuff done. Let the astronanuts plant flags, the robots will continue to do most of the research.

    • Re:How many people will go to Mars? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Chess_the_cat ( 653159 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @10:17AM (#9229363) Homepage
      Please. How long did it take for the robots up there now to pick up a bloody rock or to even get off the landing vehicle? In the time it took a machine to roll 10 feet I would have been able to pick up sacks of rocks and dig a hole 6 feet deep.

      As for the article, why bother designing the suits now? I'm sure that in 20 years there will be materials that will be much more advanced that we'll want to use instead.

      • You have to take into account the effort required in getting people to Mars, the health risks, the effort required to get them back (not an issue for robots unless they are returning samples), the technology required to keep them alive, and other factors. Using robots for the real work seems like the best solution.
        1. Please. How long did it take for the robots up there now to pick up a bloody rock or to even get off the landing vehicle? In the time it took a machine to roll 10 feet I would have been able to pick up sacks of rocks and dig a hole 6 feet deep.

        While I think there are good reasons to send people to Mars, I'll pose a devil's avocate question to you;

        1. Say today the US, Europe, China, Japan...by themselves or as a group decide to mount a manned Mars mission. By the time people leave Earth on the trip to Ma

      • Re:How many people will go to Mars? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by WegianWarrior ( 649800 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @11:47AM (#9230153) Journal

        As for the article, why bother designing the suits now? I'm sure that in 20 years there will be materials that will be much more advanced that we'll want to use instead.

        Why bother upgrading your PC now? In two years time there will be faster processors and larger harddisk avilable, and then you can just ask yourself the same question again...

        A spacesuit [astronautix.com] is in essence a highly complex, articulate one man spaceship. As such, it takes time to develop and iron out the bugs. The A7L suit [astronautix.com] used on the Apollo missions took nine years to develop, and was, as far as I can understand, a simpler piece of enginering than a suit for Mars will be - for starters, the gravity on the moon are less, meaning that the suit could have more mass without beeing uncomfertable to wear for extended periods of time. Also the moon has no atmosphere, while if you're going to Mars you might want to make sure there is no way the atmosphere on Mars affects your suit in a negative manner.

        The EMU (Extravehicular Mobility Unit) [astronautix.com] that was developed for use on the Shuttle faced a simpler problem - no gravity to worry about, no moondust that could get into the joints, no chance of the astronaut stumbling over a rock - yet it took as long as the shuttle to develop the first flightrated variants.

        Why indeed start designing the suits ten to twenty years ahead of the mission? Because it takes about that time to get the best possible design worked out, all the bugs ironed out and enought suits manufactured - during the apollo program each astronaut had 3 suits; one for training, one for flights and one backup.

        Useless fact; The A7L suit [astronautix.com] had a mass of 22 while the assosiated PLSS (Portable Life Support System) had a mass of 26 kg. The EMU (Extravehicular Mobility Unit) [astronautix.com] used on the US spaceshuttle had a mass of 50 kg and a PLLS weigthing 15 kg.

      • As for the article, why bother designing the suits now? I'm sure that in 20 years there will be materials that will be much more advanced that we'll want to use instead.

        Part of the problem is the need for a "feature freeze". At a certain point, probably around 10 years before launch, they have to stop adding new features and changing designs entirely, even when new and better technologies come out. This is vital so that all the systems can be integrated with each other and tests run to make sure everthi

      • you'd be surprised, NASA has been using basically the same spacesuit design and technology for a little more than 20 years (hell, even longer) with little modifications here and there.
      • Because it's better to refine a design for 20 years and create mock up once every 5, then have to rush to make one in the year before the mission goes.
      • On the other hand, in the time it will take to develop and build a single spaceship capable of carrying people to Mars, we could build and send quite a few unmanned probes, which would then be free to roll many tens of feet and analyze rocks. :) When you compare the speed and efficiency of manned vs. robot exploration, you need to take into account development and build time.
      • How space suites would have looked/worked if they had been designed in the 40's?
        btw, Support the 1st Amendment follow all pop-ups, it's your duty as an average American to mis-understand the bill of rights.
      • Really. You going to do all that Mars rock collection and hole digging here from Earth? I wonder how much robots can get done in 20 years. Funny thing is, they don't NEED sacks full of rocks. A little digging and some core samples would probably be really nice, but that's stuff a robot could do just fine also. Until it's cheaper to send humans, they're going to send robots, so it's kinda hard for the humans to catch up on "work done on Mars" when only robots are there.
        (Personally, I don't see humans getting
    • Man, you really are misinformed. Think about it: if you send a proper human mission to Mars, where they'll be sitting on the surface for a year and a half, they're going to be able to go a lot farther and do a lot more than a bunch of wimpy little robots, whose controllers are happy if they move a few dozen meters in a day and have a mission life of over 90 days. Humans can do hundreds of times the science, and are a heck of a lot more flexible in case a surprise discovery changes mission priorities. Yes, h
    • Yeah robots. They currently spend 7 days backing off their landers. They're impressive machines and all, but come on.....

      Want to know what's 5 feet below the surface up there? Well, it's rocks and soil. Send up an astronaut with a shovel though, and you'll find out for sure a lot faster than if you send the current generation of mentally retarded R2 units.

      grep this

  • It's great to see research into technology that can be used for colonisation.
    If we can design effective living areas and 'farms' for use on mars, then it just becomes a question of funding.
    What else needs designing for use on mars?
    Looking forward to taking a trip there.

  • What not to wear... (Score:5, Funny)

    by T-Kir ( 597145 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @08:55AM (#9229119) Homepage

    Just don't invite Trinny and Susannah [bbc.co.uk], they'd probably throw all the current stuff out the nearest airlock.

  • Where the fashion going? (Score:4, Funny)

    by jackb_guppy ( 204733 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @08:57AM (#9229127)
    I was hoping to see wide lapels, or padded shoulders that look like airplane wings.

    Instead it talks about material make up.

    How is that what to wear?

  • Micrometeors? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Rolo Tomasi ( 538414 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @08:58AM (#9229130) Homepage Journal
    Y'know, Mars has an atmosphere ...

    • Mars has an atmosphere

      Not much of one, though.

      • Re:Micrometeors? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Rolo Tomasi ( 538414 )
        The density of Mars' atmosphere is about 1% of that of the Earth's. And guess what, most meteorites that you see on earth burn up in the upper layers of the atmosphere where there atmosphere is still very thin.

        The only thing that is different on Mars is that meteorites would get lower before they burn up. But I don't think it would made a difference to people living there if meteorites burned up at 10km instead of 100km. The only meteorites you have to worry about on Mars are the really large ones, that a

  • Demron (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 23, 2004 @08:58AM (#9229133)
    Right, let's start out by including a patented product in construction which will likely involve a long-term contract with NASA; even if Demron proves to be not the best choice, or if better fabric/material constructs come along.

    I know that spacesuit design is expensive, but is anyone else worried about universities becoming little more than state funded corporate technology parks?
    • Becoming?
    • I know that spacesuit design is expensive, but is anyone else worried about universities becoming little more than state funded corporate technology parks?

      normally i would agree with you, but you seem to forget that the U of A isn't American, or Government Funded

      • Re:Demron (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Zzootnik ( 179922 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @09:34AM (#9229227)
        This is true. And also true is that maybe it wont be NASA going to mars. That whole X-Prize thing is meant to encourage some tendencies in the private sector. Maybe NASA should become more of an Advisory/Grant-giving Org... "You guys can go into space when you get off your fat asses and make it work!"

        I hate to say it, but it very well could be that Corporate funding will put people into space. Now if only there was some way to ensure that such University research was mandatorily open-sourced...or open-patented...or whatever needs to be done to make sure standards can be put in place and the tech is available to everyone if it happens to be state-funded.
        • I really don't think so... there's little or no incentive for corporations to spend the billions required to put men on Mars.

          There's a BIG difference between an X-prize suborbital flight and doing a Martian mission, even with robots.

    • Right, let's start out by including a patented product in construction which will likely involve a long-term contract with NASA

      The mission th Mars is in about 20 years. Patents last 17 years. What's the big deal? Besides, it's a layer of fabric. How hard can it be to update the design to use something else, should that be necessary?

    • I'm a recent graduate of the U of Alberta's Engineering program... The Electrical Engineering building was mostly built with money from corporate 'sponsorships'. The classrooms and labs are for the most part named after companies that donated cash for the building. So we have the 'Suncor Lecture Theatre' and the 'Colt Engineering Design Lab'. It's really sad. I'm waiting for these companies to start directing research and development at universities soon. I have some definite concerns about large corp

  • men (Score:3, Funny)

    by dankelley ( 573611 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @08:58AM (#9229134)
    If men ever land on Mars, what will they wear

    Whatever their mummies tell them to wrap themselves in ;-)

  • When you're unsure of the weather, dress in layers. Ten is good, twenty is better.

  • Important that there be a fly in the front. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dankjones ( 192476 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @09:01AM (#9229141) Homepage
    So that they can unzip their spacepants and piss on a rock and say "Ha ha! Take that Mars!".

    What else would be the point of spending $9346294673945639046723548409 dollars to send a manned mission to Mars instead of 345767 unmanned probes to all the other planets and moons, and also another bigass space telescope?

    • Greeetings Navigator Columbo... (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      To Navigator Columbo:

      We regret to inform you that this is the current state of the Spanish economy: there are ten brass bits to one copper piece. There are ten copper pieces to one silver piece. There are ten siolver pieces to one gold piece. There are 24 gold pieces to one platinum piece. There are 50 platinum pieces in the coin called the Royal Treasury. There are 15 Royal Treasuries in the royal treasury. I don't know how this stuff goes in Genoa, but here in Spain it means that we're in a budget crunch
      • You're overlooking the fact that there are better things we could be doing with our space budget, and who cares if we colonize Mars? Is that going to lower the population of Earth? Is it going to be a solution to out overcrowding problem?

        If some private group(s) want to send a manned mission that's great, but a government funded mission is rediculous.

        Also arrival may be claim, but how much of the U.S. did we get by claim, and how much did we "liberate"?
    • "What else would be the point of spending $9346294673945639046723548409 dollars to send a manned mission to Mars instead of 345767 unmanned probes to all the other planets and moons, and also another bigass space telescope?"

      because 1 Wo/Man could save you countless thousands of hours of programming Robots, it takes an hour to tell the rover to grab a handful of soil, it takes 1/4 second for a Human to do it.

      thats why

      • bulls**t. how many hours of training do those silly humans take before easy missions in orbit around earth? how many thousands of hours did it take for moon missions? now multiply that time by all the training support staff that had to be present at the training sessions.

        write the program once.... use it again and again or train the human again and again, and use him once.
  • Well according to my wife if it's after labor day then it can't be white.

  • Yes, but... (Score:1, Redundant)

    by Paulrothrock ( 685079 )
    Will it make my butt look fat?
  • Dont forget the tin foil hat!

  • Well duh... (Score:2, Funny)

    by grub ( 11606 )

    All Mars explorers will need are Grizzly Bear Proof Suits. [slashdot.org]
    They're well armoured for micrometeorites and, hey, you never know about those Martian grizzly bears.

  • It will be antiquated (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 23, 2004 @09:18AM (#9229181)
    The students and their professor, Dr. Barry Patchett, think their suit will largely be ready before real missions to Mars start in about twenty years.

    Do they really think they will get NASA to adapt a design that will be twenty years antiquated when they actually use it? You can't run space missions like that! Would we send astronauts into space today with the same technology we used twenty ye... Oh. Maybe I should invest.

    • Exactly.

      Using this logic, if we were just stepping onto Mars today, our astronauts would be sporting the finest Hypercolour shirts and acid wash denim spacesuits money could have bought 20 years ago. Not to mention their helmets would be an unusual shape to cope with the mullet haircuts.
    • By using cutting edge materials (20 years early)
      • it's extremely expensive now
      • it's 20 years old then

      They should do this on the cheap, using the simplest most standard materials/approaches that they can.

      What they would end up with might not be the very best, and probably won't be the final design, but it could set a standard... any final design should be a lot better if it is going to cost a lot more.

      With the right publicity (for the next 20 years), this could draw more attention to the school (and i

    • Unlike computer technology, most other technologies don't move as fast. The old rockets are pretty much the same as the new ones technology wise, the old televisions are pretty similair to todays TV's with some additions. 20 years is nothing. Plus you have to start somewhere.

      Ahh U of A my old Alma meter.
    • atiquated?
      look at the current space shuttle design. it is 30 years old. NASA uses technology that is reliable, and trusts no revolutionary designs. i think 20 years is a very realistic guess.

  • um, space suits? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Wouldn't these technically be pressure suits or something? Since they would be worn on the surface of mars you wouldn't actually be in space.
  • The governor of California should be able to answer this.
  • That bear-proof suit was up for auction [cgi.ebay.ca] but didn't sell so maybe it's still available.

    It also features a built-in video screen, a cooling system, pressure-bearing titanium struts, protective airbags, shock absorbers, a robotic third arm, built-in regular arms and swivel shoulders.

    And best of all, they're pretty darn bear-resistant! Always important on Mars!

    "Good heavens, something's wriggling out of the shadow like a gray snake. Now it's another one, and another. They look like tentacles to me. There,

  • Not better than lead... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Jott42 ( 702470 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @09:24AM (#9229202)
    For the physisists out there: There is no magic involved. According to the specification from the Radiation Shield Technologies homepage:
    "CIVILIANS DEMRON(TM) is effective as a radiation shield, comparable to lead in terms of g/cm2 and tantalum according to the mass attenuation coefficient, against gamma, x-ray and beta emissions."

    Which gives that the weight for equal protection as a certain thickness of lead will be the same!

  • The Right Stuff (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Howzer ( 580315 ) * <grabshot AT hotmail DOT com> on Sunday May 23, 2004 @09:24AM (#9229205) Homepage Journal
    This is the kind of "get out there and just do it" attitude that may just get us (humans) out of Low Earth Orbit for the first time in 20 years.

    These suit designers are right up there with the people doing Mars-on-Earth research [marssociety.org] (learning the skills and techniques for actual large-scale planetary surface exploration) and human-scale rover designers [marssociety.org] (building the car to do the exploration in) out there getting it done.

    And like both those other lines of research, this one has payoffs right here, right now. Bravo!

  • Material Choices for Mars (Score:4, Informative)

    by isny ( 681711 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @09:30AM (#9229220) Homepage
    Check out this pdf [asminternational.org] for a full 10 page report.

  • The "Mars" Series by Robinson if you like this (Score:3, Informative)

    by jakoz ( 696484 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @09:35AM (#9229230)
    Red Mars, Green Mars and Blue Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson. Excellent reading and well researched. If you like this topic, check out the series.

  • Piece of cake (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Alomex ( 148003 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @09:40AM (#9229249) Homepage
    As anybody who has been to Alberta in February knows, all you need is walk into the local Walmart, ask for standard gear for the Albertan winter, remove a couple of layers and voila: martian-ready space suit.

    On the day the rover sojourner landed in Mars it was colder in Edmonton than in the sojourner landing area (seriously).

    • Re:Piece of cake (Score:2, Interesting)

      by incubusnb ( 621572 )
      On the day the rover sojourner landed in Mars it was colder in Edmonton than in the sojourner landing area (seriously).

      i remember that day, i didn't want to leave the house, seriously

      oh, standard issue Alberta Winter gear:

      • t-shirt
      • Sweater
      • Hoodie
      • Winter Jacket
      • underwear
      • Long Underwear
      • Jeans
      • Socks x2 (preferably Wool)
      • Toque
      • scarf
      • sunglasses (Snow-glare is a bitch)
      • add more Layers as Nessesary(sp?)

      on a warm Winter day, on a cold one, don't go outside for more than 10 Minutes

  • Obligatory Jack Handey Quote.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by mscdex ( 774392 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @10:07AM (#9229339)
    When the chairman introduced the guest speaker as a former illegal alien, I got up from my chair and yelled, "What's the matter, no jobs on Mars?" When no one laughed, I was real embarrassed. I don't think people should make you feel that way.
  • and a step in the right direction.

    Hmm. Dolphins and Scorpions are immune to radiation.
    Dolphins are mammals. So are we. I wonder if we can learn how to develop technology that would dispense with the need for radiation suits.

    Will we adapt over the next thousands of years to be radiation tolerant?

    just a thought...
    • Will we adapt over the next thousands of years to be radiation tolerant?

      In neo-Darwinism, mutations are random with respect to fitness and do not preferentially favour traits that are well suited to an organism's current environment. So humans will not adapt in response to environments with significant radiation, if that is indeed what you are getting at.

      But we may well try and genetically engineer ourselves though.

    • Yeah, but who wants to be exploring Mars dressed in a dolphin outfit?
      • that's why he mentioned the scorpian.... imagine a 6 foot stinger hanging off the back of your suit!

        forget snapping towels in the locker room; lookout for the poison loaded stingers!

    • Re:Not immune (Score:2, Informative)

      by hung_himself ( 774451 )
      Nothing is immune to radiation -it's all a matter of dosage

      Ionizing radiation damages DNA, protein, lipids etc both directly and by generation of free radicals (hence the term ionizing...). Organisms differ greatly in sensitivity mainly due to different efficiencies in repair but nothing is *immune*.

      With enough juice the cockroach eventually fries like the rest of us...

  • for the love of GOD! (Score:3, Funny)

    by buttahead ( 266220 ) <tscanlanNO@SPAMsosaith.org> on Sunday May 23, 2004 @11:32AM (#9230041) Homepage
    Their prototype suit is composed of twelve layers of materials ... [they] think their suit will largely be ready before real missions to Mars start in about twenty years. They also hope that NASA will pick their design.

    Jesus NO!. Just think of the deaths that will happen without the "13th-layer". If I were nasa, I would demand more layers. 20 years should be enough time to come up with one more.
  • So my North Face jacket and L. L. Bean mittens aren't going to cut it, eh?

  • Mars is less harsh than moon, not other way around (Score:5, Informative)

    by kippy ( 416183 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @01:19PM (#9230993)
    This is cool and all but the article is a bit misleading about the demands of a Moon suit as opposed to a Mars suit.

    - Radiation. Mars has little to no magnetosphere but it does have some atmosphere. This provides some protection that the Moon does not. Also, the Moon is much closer to the sun so the levels of radiation from it are higher. There are also little baby north and south poles [spacedaily.com] around the planet. Landing in one of those will provide a bit more protection.

    - Temperature. The Moon [nasa.gov] has much higher and lower temperatures to worry about than Mars [nasa.gov]

    - Sandstorms. True, the Moon doesn't have these but with the low gravity, thin atmosphere and fact that they won't be sleeping in hammocks, explorers/settlers should be able to handle them as long as they wear something thicker than a windbreaker.

    In short, Mars suits have fewer extremes to deal with than Moon suits. The article exhibits some FUD about Mars.

  • Weather? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Afbc0m ( 623144 )
    Are they suits weather proof?
    There is brief mention of the martian dust in the first paragraph of the technical document, but it isn't addressed elsewere, Martian winds can carry dusts to excessively high speeds and will stick it to almost any material like it were spray paint, nearly impossible to remove.
    How do the space suits counter this, and will the dust should it stay on degrade the suits performance?

  • Don't forget... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Don't forget the HUGE glass face mask. This has numerous advantages, including:
    • Allows the movie cameras to get nice close-up shots.
    • Provides an increased chance of breakage/higher television ratings.
    • Allows various alien species to get a better look at dinner.
  • "You want me to wear a spacesuit designed by Terry Pratchet??!! So how are you sending me there, a giant slingshot?"

    "No, that's Barry Pratchet. Get your names right".

  • t'would seem mr. patchett's surname is not an auspicious one for a spacesuit designer...
  • since you're dreaming....

  • My Question... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Mike Buddha ( 10734 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @06:57PM (#9233253)
    My Question is this: If I'm on Mars, will I have to wear a tinfoil hat [zapatopi.net] to keep the people on Earth from reading my mind?
  • Here on earth, we have much the same Mars has:

    Micrometeors: Interstellar dust entering earth's atmosphere happens many times a day. Leaves a crater of about 1*10E-20 nm.
    Radiation: UV Radiation. First Degree burns ahoy!
    Climate: Its pretty damned cold up here in Canada from November right to April.

    The funny thing is, we have already invented something to defend up against each of those.

    Its called clothing. T-Shirts and Pants easily defend us from UV Radiation, they stop lots of objects hurled at us, and th

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