Japanese Inventor's Motor Uses 80% Less Power 1095
novakane007 writes "A Japanese inventor named Kohei Minato has created a new kind of motor. It uses magnetism to perpetuate the motor motion. As a result the motors uses 80% less energy than a conventional motor, while still maintaing the same horsepower. "Minato assures us that he hasn't transcended the laws of physics. The force supplying the unexplained extra power out is generated by the magnetic strength of the permanent magnets embedded in the rotor. 'I'm simply harnessing one of the four fundamental forces of nature,' he says."
On top of the energy savings the motor runs cool to the touch and is significantly quieter than a tradtitionally powered fan. Sound to good to be true? Well he's already started selling the fan to a chain of convience stores in Japan. Hopefully soon the design will make it in to your home PC, allowing them to run much quieter."
Quiet PCs? (Score:3, Interesting)
What? I wasn't quite aware that computers generated their own power yet... Also, the article says the engines are quite large- probably impossible to be able to use them in a laptop setup. Plus, anyway, power supplies are quite quiet anyway, and they don't generate their own power. The problem with the noise from computers these days is unbearably loud hard drives and harsh fans.
The question is... (Score:2, Interesting)
How long do these magnets last?
Re:Quiet PCs? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've seen it (Score:3, Interesting)
As all of these sorts of posts are appended IANAP, so I could be wrong.
Measurement error or fraud? (Score:5, Interesting)
Either the proponents of this device are complete incompetents, or they are complete frauds. I'm inclined to believe the latter, as incompetents tend not to have the sales skills evident in the article [japan.com]
Possibly not... (Score:2, Interesting)
While I am not saying that he's tapping that energy, what is to say that he isn't?
You've got an interesting anomaly going on there with his engine- time to go find a new model for physics that jives with what we already know AND Minato's gaget.
Re:the truth will set you free (Score:2, Interesting)
You can stop reading right there. I think the "inventor" has found a way to manufacture venture capital using only magnets and bullshit.
From Gizmodo... true? (Score:1, Interesting)
All Minato's power calculations appear to be wrong (apparently it's a common mistake many scientists make); you can't measure input power using a multimeter when the current drain isn't constant. You can see his workshop in his videos - all his calculations are done using common multimeters and a desktop calculator.
Minato motors use an optical sensor to "switch on" the "stator" (electromagnet) for a fraction of each RPM, so he'd need an oscilloscope and some funky math to figure out how much current the motors are really sucking up (or a stopwatch; and wait for the driving battery to go dead, then estimate based on the battery capacity).
It's still a super neat idea though - which seems to boil down to "drive motors from the outside using aligned permanent magnets and momentary pulses from the stator" instead of the traditional "sick the stator in the middle" idea.
Re:Just to be clear.. (Score:4, Interesting)
But, "In Japan, no one pays for 40,000 convenience store cooling fans without being reasonably sure that they are going to work."
And if that didn't convince you:
Hopefully soon the design will make it in to your home PC, allowing them to run much quieter.
Because we all know that the noise generated by the fan comes from the motor and not from air hitting the fan.
How can you contradict such a logical and fact laden article?
CompactFlash (Score:3, Interesting)
didn't I read back in 1993 that we'd all be using solid state hard drives by now??? Guess that was a sure thing in the days of $600 hard drives.
Pricewatch.com tells me I can get a CompactFlash card reader for USB for under 20 USD and a 2 GB CF card for under 200 USD. There also exist adapters to plug CF cards into ATA cables. It seems that the desire for more capacity in a 3.5" desktop HD enclosure has outpaced the desire for larger persistent solid-state memory in desktop machines.
Re:Possibly not... (Score:5, Interesting)
There is no "interesting anomaly", there's just a claim phrased in the language of junk science. We don't find new models for physics on the basis of undocumented, unreviewed, unrepeated claims.
Re:*MAGNETIC* fans in my PC? (Score:2, Interesting)
Granted they are set up in the drive to cancel each other out, but still... damn strong.
Space Cakes! (Score:2, Interesting)
No?
Well I guess that means that there are!
Be real. Anybody who's done some basic maths knows that to prove something you need to prove that it ALWAYS works. As to prove something wrong you only need to prove it ONCE.
Same thing for the burden of proof here.
Imagine a world where everybody would be guilty else they prooved innocent. Things don't work that way thank god! Err wait...
Legal in U.S. (Score:3, Interesting)
(Ianal.)
Re:Quiet PCs? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:In this article, we do not violate the laws (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Definitely a violation (Score:5, Interesting)
This definitely looks like a stupid scam.
Re:*MAGNETIC* fans in my PC? (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Quiet PCs? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Porcelain engine running on water (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.siscom.net/~louisekramer/index.htm
Re:Judge for yourself (Score:2, Interesting)
I guess the trick is he's not claiming perpetual motion. As other posters suggested, the magnets might deplete very quickly. Although this whole thing is ringing a bell. I thought I read about this on another site and the explanation was that his method of taking measurments are wrong. He has to measure the drain over a period of time because of the peaks related to switching on and off or something like that. I'll see if I can find the link.
Oh... here [gizmodo.com] is is.
Re:Quiet PCs? (Score:4, Interesting)
To make a viable, sellable purely electric car, you need batteries that weight AT LEAST 1/4 as much and cost 1/10th as much as today's best.
While we're at it, inventing power transistors that are nearly lossless would be nice, since switching losses are the other major diffuculty.
Re:Amazing idea (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Quiet PCs? (Score:3, Interesting)
Or you can do what I did, and replace the metal mounting bracket with a cardboard one. Amazing noise reduction there, and the total expense was $0.
Real Electric Motor News (Score:5, Interesting)
Raser Technologies recently (ie within the last year) introduced technology to convert existing electric motor designs to run not more effeciently, but more powerfully. Their patented (with a real US patent) design allows a motor to produce up to three times as much power than previously achievable. All electric motors can be "overdriven" to provide more power in short bursts. This technology (which they dub Symetron) allows the motor to run at those higher powers at a sustained rate without burnout or explosion.
Unlike Kohei Minato, Raser Technologies has been to various trade shows, hosted several demonstrations and posts results done by 3rd party test facilities. Also unlike Japan Magnetic Fan Company, Raser Technology is a publicly traded company under the stock symbol RSTG.OB.
Although not as revolutionary or jaw-droppingly-fake, this new technology does have a huge amount of practicle applications. For example, currently to run an electric car you need about a 50-HP motor. Here's an example of how big [baldor.com] a motor that's rated for 50 horsepower continious usage can be (610 lbs). A counterexample would be this video [rasertech.com] from a trade show where Raser Tech runs a bus on 500 horsepower motor that is noticably smaller.
Yes, these motors still have the same efficiency rating as the motors without the Symetron adjustment, but they are extremely small for their power ratings. The key is truly the power density.
Not so gigantic a field... (Score:3, Interesting)
Additionally, the metal case of the PSU acts like a Faraday cage and keeps most of the magnetic fields inside the PSU, but it is mainly there to keep you from electrocuting yourself (PCs are one of those few items of consumer electronics that the consumer is expected to open up at some point).
You'll note that all of the coils in a transformer are wound together closely - this is due to the strength of magnetic fields decreasing rapidly (faster than the inverse square law) as you move away from the source. You can't seperate the coils by much distance and "transfer all the hundreds of watts your PC needs through the air as a magnetic field". It just doesn't work like that.
There is some electromagnetic noise from the power supply, but not very much really. Open up a piece of consumer electronics (like a Tivo or CD player for example) and you'll note that they didn't even bother to put any shielding around the PSU, because the magnetic field strength coming from it is really weak. How do they get away with it? The fields just aren't that big that they cause any problems with modern digital electronics.
Open up a dead hard drive sometime and you'll find two really really strong magnets and an electromagnetic coil in the head actuator assembly, adjacent to the sensitive magnetic media. How do they get away with it? Simple, the field is really quite small.
Unless your power supply includes the type of electromagnet used on a scrapyard crane, I wouldn't worry about it - the field is much smaller than you might think.
Re:Quiet PCs? (Score:2, Interesting)
EV1 Gen2 w/ LithiumIon batteries wasnt even TRIED to be sold - GM brought it to market in order that they can show that it was unviable. 70% of people dont need a gas auto. 90% of people with 2 cars dont need a 2nd gas auto, an electric would do them just fine...
The trouble with electric cars has nothing to do with technology and everything to do with momentum of the marketplace, lack of will on the part of regulators (or corruption if you prefer...) and plutocratic auto-industry and oil barrons.
Re:Loud HDDs? (Score:2, Interesting)
I have an HDD activity light, I don't need to hear the drive... blinky lights are MUCH cooler than some grindy, clicky, whirly sounds anyway.
whatever... it's a hoax (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Real Electric Motor News (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Measurement error or fraud? (Score:2, Interesting)
rasertech (Score:5, Interesting)
We know something you don't know
&
Yes, but we'll sue them
What worries me are phrases like "proprietary design innovations", "proprietary scientific principles", "strict confidentiality agreement", etc. I read their Press Briefing [rasertech.com], which left me more and less satisfied. The best i can piece together is that they've got better cooling, some special design tweaks and a "means for increased magnetic energy storage" The deeper you go the curioser it gets...
Just for shits and giggles they make almost the same claims [rasertech.com] as our Japanese friend. "300% more power" anyone? Their SEC filings make for veryinteresting reading. they've only spent 600K on R&D since raser's inception, they haven't obtained patents yet (only applied for them), "Raser's auditor's report contains a "going concern" qualification", "Our officers have no long-term experience with electrical motor sales"... I just can't understand... If their tech is so mindblowing how come it isn't everywhere?
Re:Magnets store practically no energy (Score:2, Interesting)
(you seem knowledgable- and I'm a fairly intelligient guy but I can't seem to figure this out)
Just imagine a simple dowel with 2 donut magnets on it, the top one opposed so it "floats".
Because of the magnetic properties, aren't those magnets constantly exerting a force upon each other?
I mean, the repelling force really does just "come from nowhere" Repelling magnets forced together will exert a constant force upon whatever is forcing them together.
Does a "permanent magnet" actually ever lose its magnetic properties?
I would assume so, but maybe not...
So...?
Magnets, solely because of their properties, are able to exert forces upon each other.
Is it really that much of a stretch to believe that with some sophiticated alignment of forces, and some sophisticated triggering of electromagnets to sweep through a cycle, that you couldn't create some "motor" that was basically powered by the permanent magnets?
I can't believe I'm even contemplating a "free energy" device, but I can't quite figure out exactly what's wrong with it...
My conservation-of-energy mind would say that the "permanent" magnets really aren't permanent, and they will lose their magnetism... but... ???
Re:power calculations appear to be wrong (Score:2, Interesting)
--
Old News - Lutec Australia already has one (Score:2, Interesting)
The Lutec 1000 is claimed to be more than 100% eficient (lets see all those themodynamics laws thrown about now)
I leave you with this question, how is it that an electro magnet can consume large amounts of power to keep a 10kg weight suspended, yet a permanent magnet can do the same job without consuming any power? This is the energy source they are using. The tough part is timing the "kick" to keep the motor from polling.
Maybe it's a misunderstanding... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:In this article, we do not violate the laws (Score:3, Interesting)
The Earth's electromagnetic field is a popular choice among these hucksters. With this guy, it's magnets.
I'm not so sure. I am normally extremely skeptical of such claims, and yes, I understand at least most of the implications of the laws of thermodynamics, and believe they hold true here, too. But at the same time, I've witnessed this effect myself, and so can you - it's easy. Either something strange, or the illusion of something strange, is going on, and I don't at this point pretend understand it all. Here's how you can see for yourself:
----
Building "Colin Dublin's Batteryless Magnetic Motor"
(Credit for "discovering" this particular arrangement must be given to my 9-year-old son, Colin, who came to me a few months ago claiming to have invented "a motor without batteries". An avid Junkyard Wars fan, he is continually trying to invent new motors and engines. (I guess it just runs in the family...
Go to the toy store and get one of those cool little magnetic construction sets that have a bunch of ball bearings and a bunch little plastic connector sticks with neodymium magnets molded into each end. (You really ought to have a set of these anyway, right? They're just too cool not to...) Now start building:
1) Make a flat, regular pentagon, with 5 ball bearings connected by five sticks.
2) Now tesselate the top by adding a stick from each of the pentagon's ball bearings to a sixth ball bearing above.
3) Repeat the process to tesselate the bottom side, too. You should now have a polyhedron consisting of ten triangular sides, 5 top and 5 bottom, with your original pentagon in the middle. (If not, start over and try to figure out where my instructions are confusing you...)
4) Stick a ball bearing onto another stick, and let that ball adhere to the top ball of your polyhedron. This is the "low friction bearing/axle" for the gadget. Note that there are two ball bearings stuck together here - that's important to keep the friction down.
5) While holding the axle stick vertically in one hand with the polyhedron hanging under it, give the polygon a spin with the other hand. It will run down in a bit.
6) Now spin it again, but this time, hold another magnet stick near (but not touching) the outer rim of the polyhedron as it spins. If you can do it steadily, without perturbing the spinning polyhedron too much, you'll feel and see it continue to spin far longer than you might expect.
Depending on the polarities with which you assembled the thing, you can get a rather surprising sustaining effect at times, especially if you "alternate" the polarity of the tesselating sticks. Experiment to see what works best. Because the rim is five-sided, you'll have some point at which there are two balls of the same polarity, and this will make things bumpy. Try other shapes, too, if your set allows (some are better than others) - a hexagon, for instance. Have fun with the magnets; you might even learn something. And who knows, maybe you'll have a career option in Japan as a magnetic motor engineer...
Re:Magnets store practically no energy (Score:2, Interesting)
I think that's likely to be a serious problem with your approach. Moving the magnet means you are doing actual work on the magnet itself, which would increase power consumption and reduce efficiency.
And if you're thinking of interposing some sort of magnetic shield, that would itself be a physical object which would interact with the magnet, thus altering the work done and hence the power consumption. You would also be straying dangerously close to "perpetual motion machine" territory: see the write-up on magnetic shields at The Museum of Unworkable Devices [lhup.edu].
Summary of the above -- quite possibly not a hoax (Score:2, Interesting)