Recharge Batteries in 30 Secs 423
An anonymous reader writes "NEC has developed organic radical batteries
which are recharged in 30 seconds. Good news, they won't (probably) cost more than the current NIMH batteries." Why is it that I'm not holding my breath to have this technology in a laptop?
Moore's Law? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Moore's Law? (Score:5, Informative)
350 F, 2.5 V UltraCapacitors [electronicproducts.com] in D cell size from Maxwell [maxwell.com] Technologies.
Re:Moore's Law? (Score:5, Insightful)
And look at this one [maxwell.com], 2,600 Farads, 2.5V, 600A rated (not a D cell package though).
Bad News . . . (Score:5, Funny)
Stefan
Re:Bad News . . . (Score:3, Funny)
Whoa ... misread that one (Score:2, Funny)
"NEC has developed organic radical batteries" (Score:5, Funny)
power to the people (Score:3, Funny)
Heat (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Heat (Score:5, Insightful)
perhaps you assume too much (Score:5, Insightful)
perhaps a 30 second recharge means, opening a cap, dumping the contents, and refilling it.. (no heat involved)
note the words organic and resin
Re:perhaps you assume too much (Score:2, Interesting)
Consider this quote:
NEC is also developing a recharger for the battery that can be used at home
if it was electricity, wouldn't the creation of a recharger be trivial?
Re:perhaps you assume too much (Score:5, Funny)
Unless it needs liquid helium cooling! :p
Re:perhaps you assume too much (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:perhaps you assume too much (Score:5, Informative)
Not necessarily; there are some practical problems with this kind of charger. Consider that a typical AA NiMH battery has a charging capacity of about 2 Ah at a voltage of 1.2 V. That's 2 Ah * 3600 s/h * 1.2 V = 8640 J. To charge that in 30 seconds, you need 8640 J / 30 s = 288 W, and that's assuming no losses anywhere. If you want to recharge 4 batteries at a time, you'll need a charger that draws 10+ amps of 120 VAC. A single D battery can have a capacity of up to 11 Ah, so you'd need about 1600 W to recharge one in 30 s. That means that a dual battery charger would draw over 25 amps at 120 VAC. Since most wall sockets are only rated at 15 amps, you'd need a dedicated circut for your charger! It's not an insurmountable problem, but it would make this style of battery a bit less practical.
Re:perhaps you assume too much (Score:5, Interesting)
Your servers draw 100 amps max? When the power comes back on and all your batteries need to recharge at once, expect a serious spike. I'm not an EE, but if it takes 30 seconds compared to 8 hours, that's 960 times faster, which means 960 times the load per unit of time.
Accountants as hosting companies will cry every time the power flickers, as the demand charges shoot up 800%
Re:perhaps you assume too much (Score:3, Interesting)
Standard household breakers are rated at 20 amps, but they would configure these to use less than that. Also, your ovens, old microwaves and driers (some washers as well) have their own ciruit from the amount of current they draw. In a company that has servers that draw a lot of current, they are running special thick wire that supports extra current.
Accountants crying:
As long as the power isn't off for too long, the demand won't shoot up much. If the power is off for a second
Re:perhaps you assume too much (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Heat (Score:5, Informative)
Now, take the square of the charging current and multiply by the internal resistance. This gives the heat dissipation in watts.
The article gives no real numbers, but let's assume the battery can supply about 5 amp-hours. To get a full charge in 30 seconds, you would need a charging current of 600 amps (!!) Heat dissipation would be 360000 times the internal resistance of the battery -- in order to dissipate fewer than 10 watts the internal resistance would have to be less than 0.000028 ohms.
At 0.000028 ohms, and a made-up terminal voltage of 7 volts, you could draw 250000 amps out of such a battery when shorted. Jesus Christ. But those numbers came out of my ass. We need real values...
Re:Heat: some real numbers (Score:3, Informative)
But those numbers came out of my ass. We need real values...
Yes, the recharge current for a 5 Ahr battery would be at least 600 Amps. If the laptop battery runs at 14 volts, that means that one would need at least a 8400 watt recharger - a solid 70 Amps on a 120 AC circuit.
As for heat, its more likely that the battery will dissipate a percentage of the input as heat. My understanding is that batteries are only a
Re:Heat: some real numbers (Score:3, Interesting)
I'll point out that home circuit breakers blow around 10 to 15 amps, so it would be physically impossible to run such a charger off a normal house circuit (and illegal and dangerous if you modified the fuses to allow it).
Re:Heat: some real numbers (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, laptop batteries have multiple cells. Perhaps they could be charged in series in an ordering such that adjacent batteries were not recharged in direct sequence, spreading the 'hot spots' out over time.
There seem to be a lot of ways to potentially slow down the recharge to make the technology more reasonable/scalable, while still having a relatively fast recharge. I'd love to be able to recharge my laptop in the ten minutes between classes, or go halfway in five. It would extend my percieved battery life incredibly. Getting to an outlet for a few minutes at a time is easy. An hour or two is more difficult, as lecture halls aren't wired.
I like the direction this is going...
Brian
Pardon my redundancy, but: (Score:3, Informative)
That's counter-productive. Assuming a reasonably constant charging resistance (as opposed to a fixed conversion loss of a chemical reaction), your power loss in the battery is I^2*R, and the total heat dumped into the battery during the charging cycle is I^2*R*(Q/I) = QIR (where Q is the total charge
Re:Explosion Hazard (Score:3, Funny)
You can also measure the resistance of your body by sticking paperclips into the wall receptable and measuring the time it takes for you to catch on fire.
Depends on the battery charging efficiency. (Score:5, Informative)
That depends on the efficiency of the charging process in the battery.
The heat generated is the main limit on charging rate, so I suspect that these puppies have VERY little internal loss when being charged.
The result will be that even when packaged you won't have a lot of problems with charging heat. If they don't get hot enough to damage the "organic resin" in their own guts, your nearby circuitry should be safe.
This also implies low losses for the total cycle. That will be very good for the automotive application. As will the lack of anything rarer than Nickel in their construction.
Nickel-cadmium would have been much better than lead-acid for automotive starter batteries - but that never took over for that service. That's because, if you wanted to put a NiCad starter battery into every car in service even back in the '60s there just wasn't enough readily-minable cadmium reserves known to do the job. It only appears in nature as an impurity in zinc. (So don't even think of making enough NiCad batteries to replace the engines).
bunny? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:bunny? (Score:2, Informative)
Elephant sized Bunny? (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:bunny? (Score:4, Funny)
Finally... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Finally... (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, that wouldn't look suspicious at all either... Carying a big bulky bag with wires coming out of it, into the bathroom.
Re:Finally... (Score:2)
Ho.. wait.. this is slashdot, nevermind.
Re:Finally... (Score:3, Insightful)
To those who are still to young to shave:
Be happy, be very happy. Shaving is annoying and a waste of time. It's not cool. It's just plain annoying and boring after the second time.
So enjoy while it lasts, 'cus when it starts, you're stuck with it for the rest of your life.
Where does the power come from on an airplane? (Score:4, Informative)
2. Storage batteries. For emergencies and for use during preflight until the APU gets going.
3. APU. A small turbine that drives a generator to provide electricity during preflight or in emergencies. Can also provides bleed air for starting engines.
4. Generators or alternators driven off of the engines. There is a gearbox attached to the engine that takes power off of the shaft and delivers it to things like generators and hydraulic pumps.
The field is huge ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Source (Score:3, Funny)
Is it powered by coffee too?
Memory Effect solution maybe? (Score:3, Interesting)
You mean so I can even get first posts when the power is out?
Though I'm curious with something...
Will this be plagued by the Mysterious Memory Effect of Rechargeable Batteries [computerworld.com]?
Re:Memory Effect solution maybe? (Score:3, Interesting)
It's hard to tell from the article, but the chemistry sounds more like that of Nickel Metal Hydride than Nickel Cadmium. So I suspect memory effect will be absent or very small.
Sounds good... but (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Sounds good... but (Score:2)
Heck, people are buying batteries today that last only ONE cycle.
NEC Develops Fastest Rechargeable Battery (Score:4, Informative)
It takes only about 30 seconds to recharge the battery enough to allow 80 hours of continuous operation of an MD player, compared with around an hour needed by conventional rechargeables, the company claims.
Because of its ability to recharge faster, the new battery, which stores power in a special resin, is expected to make radio-controlled toy cars, shavers and other products much more convenient to use.
The battery can also discharge power in a short time, making it useful in applications requiring a large amount of power.
NEC believes the battery can be used as an emergency power source for computers in case of blackouts as well as in hybrid cars driven by a gasoline engine and electric motor.
The company plans to convert existing production facilities into ones able to manufacture the new product. The company expects the price of the new battery to be about the same as nickel-hydrogen cells when mass production starts, since it does not contain any expensive materials.
NEC is also developing a recharger for the battery that can be used at home as well as working on a way to prevent excessive discharge of power from the cell.
The company will initially try to commercialize the technology for using the battery as an emergency power source for computers, according to sources at NEC.
Good vs Bad (Score:5, Funny)
The bad news is that they start to pulsate gamma radiation, require the sacrifice of an unborn child conceived during a full moon and each recharged battery causes an angel to lose his or her wings.
Please, think of the angels!
Re:Good vs Bad (Score:3, Funny)
And this from someone who calls himself Dark Lord Seth...
Great Marketing?? (Score:2, Insightful)
NEC is also developing a recharger for the battery that can be used at home as well as working on a way to prevent excessive discharge of power from the cell.
so...the batteries will be cheap, but the recharger will be the mone
Mis-targeted? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm suprised the first thing they're shooting for is the UPS market. I would have thought a bigger market would have been standard-sized batteries (AA, AAA, etc)
The article itself mentions many other uses, including RC cars, digital cameras, etc...
Guess they know their market better than I do.
Why UPS units need this... (Score:5, Interesting)
I like to use a UPS to support a server to the last safe second with enough time for an orderly shutdown... but I can't, because I need to know the UPS will last through at least two consecutive blackouts without time to recharge.
Now, with a 30 second recharge, servers under my care could survive twice the blackout duration without increasing the risk of a sudden shutdown.
Re:Why UPS units need this... (Score:3, Insightful)
When he was building his new batteries with this technology, he accidentally burnt down his money tree
Re:Mis-targeted? (Score:3, Informative)
NEC is also developing a recharger for the battery that can be used at home as well as working on a way to prevent excessive discharge of power from the cell.
It looks like right now the battery is good for high amp charge/discharge but they still need some work to safely power low amp devices.
From the discussions below, one also gets the impression that this thing needs one hell of a charger to charge it in thiry seconds which would explain w
Conversion ratio? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not so hot. (Score:5, Interesting)
Thus the battery holds about 1.2 * 3600 * 1.2 = about 5KJoules.
90% charge efficient means 500Joules as heat.
E = c * m * delta_T
where c = specific heat capacity, m = mass, delta_T = temperature change.
According to Sony, a AA battery is 30g. I don't know what the specific heat capacity of a battery is, but metals are between 0.1 and 0.9, and water is 4. Lets assume it's 1.0 J/gK.
delta_T = E/c*m = 500/(1.0 * 30) = 16 celcius.
That's about 30F for those of you who like odd units. Not such a big deal.
Of course the 90% number is drawn out of the air.
Possibly some safety issues (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the nice things about current batteries is that you can't get them to discharge very quickly. Shorting these out might cause excessive heat issues.
Re:Possibly some safety issues (Score:3, Interesting)
Never underestimate the power in a lead accu.
fast discharge too... (Score:5, Funny)
At first, I thought of quick-charging camera flashes. Maybe even video with flashes? But then I started thinking about railguns and emp devices...
Re:fast discharge too... (Score:3, Funny)
Every advantage comes at a cost (Score:4, Interesting)
NEC is ... working on a way to prevent excessive discharge of power from the cell.
So, it can be used to discharge a great amount of power, but the trick is keeping it from doing so when you don't want it to!
Cars (Score:2)
Re:Cars (Score:2)
Re:Cars (Score:3, Flamebait)
How long with it be 80 times though? (Score:3, Interesting)
James
Picture (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.nni.nikkei.co.jp/FR/TNKS/TNKSHM/newp
battery can also discharge power in a short time (Score:2)
Current draw? (Score:2)
I can imagine that it would be significantly more than the 1.5A my 4xAA 30 minute charger uses.
Because... (Score:5, Funny)
Because carrying around a human being in a por with life sustaining fluids being pumped in through tubules and feeding a fake virtual world to imprint on his consciousness until he realizes that he's not living in the real world after taking the right pill is just not as portable as today's batteries. ;P
Re:Because... (Score:2)
What about the electric Car. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What about the electric Car. (Score:4, Informative)
Hot! (Score:2, Funny)
I know why (Score:3, Funny)
Hmm... Lets look at the numbers here... I'll use the numbers for my trusty 17" powerbook.
The power supply for charging the battery puts out about 60 Watts of power. The article mentions that instead of taking an hour to charge, these batteries only take half a minute. That's 120 times the power, which means the total power used by a charger for my laptop using these batteries would be...
7200 Watts! Holy hairdryers batman! With power consumptions like this, your athelon wouldn't be the only thing that's ON FIRE in your laptop!
And remember where we like to keep our laptops!
Cheers,
Justin
some calculations (Score:4, Informative)
4.4 Ah * 3600 sek *14.8 -> 234432 Ws
(Whow a palindrome number... coool)
divide this at the recharge time
30 sek
~ 7.8 kW
I live in an appartment.
My outlets cant handle that much..
+ Needs heck of an transformer to handle that effect.
Re:some calculations (Score:3, Insightful)
Not that this is really a problem - since your recharger doesn't have to be mobile. I just liked the irony of how that sounds...
Then my batteries charge in 10 seconds (Score:3, Funny)
Man, I'm way ahead of the technology curve.
NIMH? (Score:3, Funny)
Nickel Metal-hydride (Score:3, Informative)
Re:NIMH? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:NIMH? (Score:2)
I'm afraid it's secret.
actually, it stands for Nickel-Metal Hydride
Yikes! (Score:5, Interesting)
a) That's not going to be any tiny little wall transformer doing the charging.
b)I sure hope they have the safety and quality assurance issues worked out, because if it doesn't shut off at the exact instant when the battery is fully charged, that 120 watts is going to go somewhere.
It might not be much more dangerous than a firecracker but I suspect it could be pretty dramatic.
You don't have to (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yikes! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Yikes! (Score:3, Informative)
Lithium batteries have the energy density of alkalines (3000 or so mAh), and even higher discharge currents than NiMH, but not rechargable in the AA packages (Yes, lithiums are best for digital cameras).
AAA alkaline and lithiums will easily hold 1000
Old press release (Score:5, Informative)
With this latest (today's) press release it sounds like they're finally ready for product.
Some side effects (Score:2, Funny)
New Applications? (Score:2)
Any ideas?
more info (Score:5, Informative)
Abs. 186, IMLB 12 Meeting, (C) 2004 The Electrochemical Society, Inc.
Organic Radical Battery:
Transition-metal free Lithium-ion Battery
Kentaro Nakahara, Jiro Iriyama, Shigeyuki Iwasa, Masahiro Suguro and Masaharu Satoh
Fundamental & Environmental Research Laboratories
NEC Corporation
This would be... (Score:5, Funny)
what about fuel cells? (Score:2)
Of course, if it can be recharged in less than 30s, I wonder how much current the charger needs to do that. 1800mAh (capacity of most AA NiMH batteries) in 30secs would mean 1800mAh x 3600s/h x 1/30s = 216A. Or maybe instead of being continuous current, it's pulsed?
Either way, I'll wait until it's out on the market.
Hey hey, all right! (Score:3, Funny)
With all the improvements in technology, the only thing majorly lagging has been battery performance -- something critical as we're going mobile everything. The only reason I've never bought a laptop is because the damn things die so fast that there's basically no point when you can just wait until you get back to your desktop. All this fuel-cell/fission battery nonsense has struck me as vaporware at best, I hope this is for real.
My question is if a battery can be refilled that fast, how much juice is needed for the job? More than what a 12-volt adapter would put out? If it's small enough, you could conceivably put your own "Stratotanker" in your suitcase and refill your batteries on the road with no need for a power outlet.
Oh yeah, and all these silly electric cars could now become practical. You could recharge your vehical faster than a conventional gas pump. Way to go, NEC! Bring on the radical batteries.
My Organic Batteries (Score:3, Funny)
What about expanding the upper limit? (Score:5, Insightful)
What about all that current? (Score:3, Interesting)
Amperages? (Score:4, Informative)
3.6 amp-hours * 3600 seconds/hour = 12960 amp-seconds
12960 amp-seconds * 11.1 volts = 143856 watt-seconds
As a US resident, I'll be charging from a 120 volt source. I'll skip the AC to DC intricacies and for the sake of simplicity I'll also assume a 1:1 charging efficiency (i.e. no energy lost to heat).
143856 watt-seconds / 30 seconds ~= 4800 watts
4800 watts / 120 volts = 40 amps
Now, your typical household circuit is 15 amps. Try to charge that laptop battery in 30 seconds and you're going to throw the breaker.
Rayovac IC-3 NiMH -- 15 minute Charge (Score:3, Informative)
Full charge in 15 minutes, or i believe it's a 75% charge in eight minutes. I know wal-mart carries them...check them out.
battery technology (Score:3, Interesting)
its nice to see any kind of advancement in the powercell area
Re:Recharge in 30 sec (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Recharge in 30 sec (Score:3, Interesting)
And also how long will the batter life last? I don't wanna change batteries on my cellphone/laptop more than I havta change my underwear.
Also, if this thing catches on, could this be used in electric cars, maybe as the 'oil for the new millenium'? All we could have to do is charge every once in a while, and change batteries every weekend.
Re:Is this still a battery? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Nice, but not a radical change. (Score:2)
If I can run my RC car for 10 minutes and recharge it in 30 seconds, that's good enough for me.
Re:Nice, but not a radical change. (Score:2)
Re:Nice, but not a radical change. (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually it's vs 1 HOUR so it's a factor of 120 reduction (as others have pointed out).
The real point, though, is that they've got the charging time down to less than the time it takes to swap in a fresh set of batteries. So no need to swap any more. Just do a "pit stop" with the fat ele