The Science of Love 315
Xyde writes "Economist.com has a story just in time for Valentine's day called 'The Science of Love'. Presumably the difference between love and lust is little more than a bunch of chemicals, which can be controlled with injections (in voles anyway). Quite an interesting read."
No thank you! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:No thank you! (Score:2, Funny)
The heck with injections (Score:5, Funny)
A: A sixpack.
"Alcohol: Helping men get sex for thousands of years."
Re:The heck with injections (Score:2)
Re:The heck with injections (Score:2)
Woof.
SB
It's self-administered... (Score:5, Interesting)
Mothers who advocate breast feeding often say that it's a bonding experience for them and their baby... perhaps they're more right than they know, since Oxytocin is released in the human body by nipple stimulation.
If Oxytocin truly promotes interpersonal bonding in people, that opens up all kinds of interesting avenues of research.
In related news (Score:5, Funny)
perhaps (Score:5, Insightful)
However, I should point out that most pharmacies will NOT sell syringes, needles, and a bag of Pitocin to you (Pitocin is synthetic Oxytocin). In fact, I think they'd be quite skittish if they found out you were planning on using them on your hot date...
Besides, without any research to reference, do you know how much oxytocin to give? 1000 Units? 10000 Units? Do you know where and how to administer it (IM, SQ, SC, IV)? Can you adminster it to a woman without being charged with assault/battery? How many dates are going to let you shoot them up with some random drug? (well, OK... I guess there are some of those women out there, but you don't want one of them falling in love with you...)
*sigh* I wasn't going to say it, but you could just use the time-honored (and poor man's) method of producing oxytocin... in a word: foreplay.
This discussion can now officially go nowhere but downhill...
Re:No thank you! (Score:2)
Well... (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Great news. (Score:2, Funny)
Don't you love yourself already?
Ah, valentines day. (Score:5, Funny)
Love injection? No need. Attractiveness injection? Now there's a seller.
Do it yourself (Score:5, Funny)
Utah (Score:5, Funny)
Ah, that explains politics in Utah.
Re:Utah (Score:5, Interesting)
All that being said, there are perfectly legitimate women's rights reasons why polygamy is wrong. No woman wants her husband to take a second wife, and even among the "mormons" (in quotes because the recognized church would say they're not mormons) in Utah who do have multiple wives only achieve that status by bullying, threatening, or simply psychologically dominating their first wives.
Re:Utah (Score:3, Informative)
Your post reflects the continuing issues of women's rights. There is nothing in the word polygamy [reference.com] that implies a man having multiple wives. There is nothing wrong with polygamy except for those whose moral and/or religious beliefs forbid it. Just as a man could have multiple wives, a woman could have multiple husbands.
Now, that being said, it isn't very
Re:Utah (Score:2)
Again, I would argue against your statement that there is nothing wrong with polygamy. Most forms of polygamy set
Great news. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Great news. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Great news. (Score:5, Funny)
just in time (Score:5, Funny)
Its amazing how research these days has such a superb sense of timing.
A poem. (Score:5, Funny)
Tell me why the stars do shine
Tell me why the ivy twines
Tell me why the sky's so blue
And I will tell you why I love you.
Nuclear fusion makes stars to shine
Phototropism makes ivy twine
Rayleigh Scattering makes sky so blue
Sexual hormones are why I love you.
I find it kind of frightening (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I find it kind of frightening (Score:3, Funny)
If God is Love, and a scientist can give it or take it away, does this mean the scientist is playing God, or IS God????
The difference between love and lust ... (Score:5, Funny)
Attraction = Lust + i*Love
Lust is the "real" part, and "Love" is the imaginary part.
Re:The difference between love and lust ... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:The difference between love and lust ... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:The difference between love and lust ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The difference between love and lust ... (Score:5, Funny)
L = (BSTG / BSGF) ^ (BE / DV) * (NS + 1)
Where L is the Lust you currently feel, BSTG the the Bra size of your target, BSGF is MAX_BREASTSIZE(girlfriends) you already have, BE is the number of Beers you already drank, NS is the number of months you've had no sex and DV is the number of divorces you had been through.
As you can clearly see, Beer (or other alcohololic drinks) and divorces have the highest influence. But as shown in the next formula, alcohol may also have a bad side effect:
AS = (V + 1) * L / (B + 1) ^ 3
AS is the ability to have sex, L is the lust and B is the number of Beers you had (which is very likely more than in the first formula). V is the number of Viagra's you took. You see, the more you drink, the more V you must swallow - although i'd recommend against V when you drunk B for reasons of SF (the survival factor of that night) because:
SF = (100 - AG / B ^ V) * RN
Where SF is your survival factor, AG is your age, B the Beers, V the Viagras and RN a boolean (0 or 1) to remember your spouse's name the morning after...
Therefore everyone claiming that having one-night-stands is easy isn't either
a) drinking alcohol
b) a good mathematician
c) or just plain lucky so far
Greetings from the statictical front
Rene
I'm not sure... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I'm not sure... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I'm not sure... (Score:3, Funny)
At least, not tonight...
Re:I'm not sure... (Score:3, Funny)
Now, this is not *world* war, but war in a sense.
If you ever get to Lake Cumberland Kentucky, go to the lodge near State Dock some evening in May or June around 8pm. Thats when the guests are leaving the buffet and walk out onto the deck, food in hand, for the evenings entertainment.
About 20 feet below, every evening, Groundhogs and Raccoons battle each other over position, and cute postures, trying to get food from patrons. This often beco
Re:I'm not sure... (Score:2)
Why on earth would I want . . . (Score:5, Funny)
KFG
Silly. Think: Mare! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Why on earth would I want . . . (Score:5, Funny)
Enamored vole: The self-propelled snack!
Sometimes you have to take what you can get. (Score:2)
Re: Hog riding (Score:2)
Definition of economics (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Definition of economics (Score:3, Interesting)
Considering that its a completely artificial "holiday" created to give the economy a consummerism boost exactly between xmas and easter, you shouldn't be surprised.
My favourite valentines tradition is discovering yet another bogus origin story to valentine's day.
Do these injections... (Score:5, Funny)
Strategy B (Score:5, Funny)
[Poke!]
Boss: "Oww! What was that?.....Don't worry darling, you are safe with me."
Whom Do You Love? (Score:5, Insightful)
Imagine waking up one morning only to find shes ran off with the milkman!
Re:Whom Do You Love? (Score:2, Informative)
Screw love (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Screw love (Score:2)
That, yes, would rule.
Re:Screw love (Score:2)
Some great new spam! (Score:5, Funny)
Are you one of the 80% of men who has a lower than average ability to get your partner to fall in love? Well boy do we have a product for you! Liagra! With Liagra you can finally get both your secretary and your wife to love you and each other!! only 6 easy payments of $49.95!
i wonder how long before we see this
er... (Score:5, Funny)
Seduction (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Seduction (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes. That's exactly it. Let me clue you in...
Don't give them the chance to get to know you. Really. Don't. They probably won't like you. I'm not saying that in a pessimistic or mysoginistic way, it's just the simple truth. You probably won't like them either if you wait to get to know them. Think about it. Would you be willing to deal with someone's flaws (yeah, everybody has them, and most people have bad ones) if there was nothing there? No, you'd walk away unless you're the type that falls in love with
The ultimate love chemical.... (Score:5, Funny)
Genes versus moral choice (Score:5, Insightful)
Imagine the implications for churches if it turns out that fidelity is based on genetic propensities rather than moral choice. On the other hand, if the concept of "original sin" is to be believed, perhaps that is what they have been saying all along.
Danger: propensity is not choice (Score:5, Insightful)
Human beings - especially though perhaps not uniquely - through self-reflection have the capacity to choose actions contrary to our biological propensities and inclinations.
You are not a slave to your genetic and biological predispositions and inclinations.
To be a self is to constitute in one's mind and through one's actions what it is to be an individual person.
It is the drive to dignify, love, and exude - to be - this inner self, this individual person, by which propensity and inclination are overcome.
I know this is tongue-in-cheek article, but ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm probably missing something here from their logic. Please correct me if so. Thanks.
Re:I know this is tongue-in-cheek article, but ... (Score:4, Insightful)
To take another topic, you can feel depressed because of the right (wrong?) chemicals in your brain. You could also feel depressed if you think thoughts that create those same chemicals. To "cure" depression, you could inject chemicals to balance things out, or you could think thoughts that do the same thing. The injection technique is likely more effective for many.
Re:I know this is tongue-in-cheek article, but ... (Score:4, Interesting)
They're about equal in effectiveness, actually. Current studies on depressed patients treated with cognitive therapy [wikipedia.org], antidepressants, or a combination of both, show that both methods have about equal efficacy, with the combined approach working best.
Re:I know this is tongue-in-cheek article, but ... (Score:2, Interesting)
Which is sort of logical. While cognitive therapy can teach you to recognize and eventually avoid distorted thinking, it does not do much to help get out of a depression you're in. Medication can help to get out of the cycle of depressed thinking => depression => more depressed thinking. When back in a 'normal' frame of mind, it is a lot easier to see the patterns and avoid slipping back.
The wikipedia article [wikipedia.org] you mentioned does a good job of describing the t
Re:I know this is tongue-in-cheek article, but ... (Score:2, Insightful)
See here [prozactruth.com]. I did not believe it until I saw it first hand. I.e. the person became uncontrollably aggressive, braking dishes, shaking, trying to hurt himself, not once mind you. Those side effects happen rare, but when they happen, trust me, you don't want to be around.
Maybe too far.. (Score:5, Insightful)
But this might be going a little too far. Love is one of those things that I'm comfortable not understanding - and uncomfortable understanding.
Call me crazy...but I'm happy knowing that I love my fiancee, and thinking that it's because of her humor/mannerisms/beauty/etc.
Re:Maybe too far.. (Score:2)
Re:Maybe too far.. (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe you would be even more stoked if you understood that lightning is a result of differential charges between clouds and the surface, not the clouds and the surface rubbing up against each other.
Oh, and the lightning bolt itself isn't God's wrath. God's wrath is when a bolt 'randomly' hits YOU.
Re:Maybe too far.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously though, people still enjoy roller-coaster rides, even though the physics are very well understood. Being a geek you must have realized at some point that love is really just a chemical reaction in your brain. Giving a name to the chemicals doesn't change anything. Just sit back and enjoy the ride!
Granted though "how is your oxytocin today?" doesn't sound anywhere near as endearing
Re:Maybe too far.. (Score:2)
I am happy knowing that I can behave in a way best for me and not for my genes. I am happy that I can prevent myself from falling in love again and just live alone nicely. You, on the other hand, are doing what
love is chemical (Score:3, Funny)
"When I see the way you paint your lips
and I smell your perfume
when I see the brand new color
that you've dyed your hair, too
I know, you know, it's more than physical
My love, my love, my love, love is chemical"
- Lou Reed, "My Love Is Chemical" [tiki.ne.jp]
(my love is chimerical)
Great acticle, full text (now slashdotted...) (Score:3, Informative)
Scientists are finding that, after all, love really is down to a chemical addiction between people
OVER the course of history it has been artists, poets and playwrights who have made the greatest progress in humanity's understanding of love. Romance has seemed as inexplicable as the beauty of a rainbow. But these days scientists are challenging that notion, and they have rather a lot to say about how and why people love each other.
Is this useful? The scientists think so. For a start, understanding the neurochemical pathways that regulate social attachments may help to deal with defects in people's ability to form relationships. All relationships, whether they are those of parents with their children, spouses with their partners, or workers with their colleagues, rely on an ability to create and maintain social ties. Defects can be disabling, and become apparent as disorders such as autism and schizophrenia--and, indeed, as the serious depression that can result from rejection in love. Research is also shedding light on some of the more extreme forms of sexual behaviour. And, controversially, some utopian fringe groups see such work as the doorway to a future where love is guaranteed because it will be provided chemically, or even genetically engineered from conception.
How love makes voles of us all
Feb 12th 2004
St Valentine's day revenge
Feb 10th 2000
Another way to say "I love you"
Sep 24th 1998
Ask Dr Tatiana
Dec 18th 1997
The Journal of Comparative Neurology publishes an abstract of Dr Young's article on prairie voles. Northern State University has a profile of the prairie vole. Test how loved-up you are with Economist.com's love quiz.
The scientific tale of love begins innocently enough, with voles. The prairie vole is a sociable creature, one of the only 3% of mammal species that appear to form monogamous relationships. Mating between prairie voles is a tremendous 24-hour effort. After this, they bond for life. They prefer to spend time with each other, groom each other for hours on end and nest together. They avoid meeting other potential mates. The male becomes an aggressive guard of the female. And when their pups are born, they become affectionate and attentive parents. However, another vole, a close relative called the montane vole, has no interest in partnership beyond one-night-stand sex. What is intriguing is that these vast differences in behaviour are the result of a mere handful of genes. The two vole species are more than 99% alike, genetically.
Why do voles fall in love?
The details of what is going on--the vole story, as it were--is a fascinating one. When prairie voles have sex, two hormones called oxytocin and vasopressin are released. If the release of these hormones is blocked, prairie-voles' sex becomes a fleeting affair, like that normally enjoyed by their rakish montane cousins. Conversely, if prairie voles are given an injection of the hormones, but prevented from having sex, they will still form a preference for their chosen partner. In other words, researchers can make prairie voles fall in love--or whatever the vole equivalent of this is--with an injection.
A clue to what is happening--and how these results might bear on the human condition--was found when this magic juice was given to the montane vole: it made no difference. It turns out that the faithful prairie vole has receptors for oxytocin and vasopressin in brain regions associated with reward and reinforcement, whereas the montane vole does not. The question is, do humans (another species in the 3% of allegedly monogamous mammals) have brains similar to prairie voles?
To answer that question you need to dig a little deeper. As Larry Young, a researcher into social attachment at Emory University, in Atlanta, Georgia, explains, the brain has a reward system designed to make voles (and people and other animals) do what they ought to. Without it, they might forget to eat, drink and have sex--with disastrous resu
Fascinating quote - Snort coke or fall in love? (Score:2, Interesting)
Additional Reading (Score:5, Interesting)
Science is wonderful, isn't it?
Fool me twice...shame on me... (Score:4, Interesting)
These ain't scientists. They're researchers in the marketing department. I fell for your female attracting hormone scents in the back of magazines years ago. And all I got for it was a rash and had to bathe myself in tomato sauce to remove the stink. And, by the way, if you ever had to rub yourself all over with tomato sauce for hours, you will discover true love. Trust me on that one...
Now, it's off to the grocery store. I see my pantry is running low on Hunt's again.
Causation? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Causation? (Score:3, Interesting)
What about spiritual love? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What about spiritual love? (Score:4, Interesting)
Same way you get a hard-on from watching porn.
Reality is perception, wether you percieve the person from right in front of you or from afar via the net, your brain still secretes the same chemicals.
I have been chatting with webcams and talking on the phone with a girl since October, and I know she is the one, and I haven't seen her anywhere in my life before...
Yeah, never heard THAT before...
Re:What about spiritual love? (Score:2)
Ouch
But hey - at the time, I knew it was true. Like you said yourself - reality is perception
Re:What about spiritual love? (Score:2)
It basically means that you are recognizing that the other can become your "playmate" since you both play the same game at the compatible roles.
In order to make this overly dry explanation real, think about a sadist finding a masochist or a "girl" finding a "father" (traditional model of the patriarchal society), alchogolic finds a woman that is willing to fight with him over his addiction et al.
You can find this whole model with a lot of exam
Re:What about spiritual love? (Score:2)
>>>It basically means that you are recognizing that the other can become your "playmate" since you both play the same game at the compatible roles.
I hate to make a brash assumption, but you dont have a SO, do you? I'd admit talking to a girl (you sure?) on a webcam is wholly different than meeting her in person and going out to supper, but saying the "Spiritual side of love" is a game....
When you're with your true partner,
Re:What about spiritual love? (Score:2)
And, believe me, everyone who plays these "games" does not think he plays games; it is all-encompassing occupation made with a full seriousness, just like you describe it
Re:What about spiritual love? (Score:2, Interesting)
This Sentence: (Score:3, Funny)
The injections for humans are chocolate, booze and pot.
Someone once said, "Love is for animals. Only humans can truly appreciate lust."
nerd love (Score:2)
cd ~/LoveMachine
./configure -with vibrojoy
make...
make install...
./LoveMachine vibro -on
Gattaca (Score:4, Interesting)
So, women may not yet be able to check our genes for risk of contracting alzheimers, but they can now find out if we'll cheat on them? This is looking dangerous....
It's probably worth pointing out that genetic predisposition does NOT indicate what will happen in a particular case.
The Economist? (Score:3, Funny)
New finding: Mathematics is just electrical curren (Score:2, Funny)
I gotta challenge this one (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I gotta challenge this one (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I gotta challenge this one (Score:2)
BTW, what you don't yet realize (you won't have the perspective until your current relationship is over) is that your feelings for her are mostly something you have done to yourself. Love is like a form of self-hypnosis.
I thought this was about love... (Score:2)
Remember when O.J. said "If I did kill her it's only cuz I loved her, right?" No, O.J.! It's because you were deeply attached to your idea of her.... and you froze your brain with cocaine years ago.
*sigh* If it was "love" you would have let her live.
See, "love" runs in the opposite direction, resisting the impulses that chemical attachment might cause. Well, that's my take on it anyhow
Re:I thought this was about love... (Score:2)
This makes me wonder if you have ever been in love. While you are in the relationship love can rarely have negative consequences for the one who is loved. In the relationship we do a good job of convincing ourselves that we want them to be happy etc.
But love is the most powerfully motivating emotion that our species can experience. Those same intense feelings can lead to murder (and often do) when one is "betrayed" and/or abandoned by the loved one.
Lik
These scientists are friggin' idiots! (Score:3, Interesting)
Try not to perceive it as a flamebait, but the whole point of many branches of Western applied science is to allow idiots to stay idiots and not change themselves.
For example, eat Viagra each time before sex instead of learning Daoist or Tantric techniques and getting a rock-solid erection. Or eat Prozac instead of using psychology in order to get out of depression by eliminating its root causes.
Another example - medicines that allow someone who have never exercised and ate crap at McDonalds to live till their retirement age.
Thus, the entire civilization becomes one of degenerates (or, even better word, CONSUMERS. I consider this word an insult) on prescription drugs because there is only a certain small percentage of people who will do something that is not required for survival. Then longer I look at this world, then more I get disappointed in the effectiveness of a certain socialized institutions. This makes me wish the world be more succeptible towards libertarian ideas that are based on self-responsibility for your being.
And now the right direction
Everything said above brings us to one word that describes the place that is the key: Psyche.
Psyche is the part of us that manages the levels of hormones, chemicals et al, and in most cases it is the level where the problems should be attacked.
Here is [geocities.com] the explanation why geeks don't get women. This is a "physical"/"lustful" side of love.
(when reading it, think of Kramer versus George Costanza as the example of high/low rank, and of Klingons versus Vulcans as the example of high/low primativeness)
There is another one - "spiritual"/"psychological" that can be understood upon reading "Games people play" by Eric Bern.
As one can understand, all of this "chemical crap" that we eat in a form of medicine and supplements is just a way of bypassing the psyche and emulating its work. Smarter readers will understand that modern Western medicine often heroically fights with the shit that our own subconscious brought us into (think of a very typical situation with people who nobody needs, and who get sick in order to get attention of their relatives, professionals from medical institutions or good samaritans. Also read this [anandaanswers.com] ). And the general population pays through the socialized healthcare. And everyone is happy since everything is a good business for certain groups whithin the society. At the same time majority is swayed by the false ideals of humanism et al.
Sorry for being that vicious and arrogant, but I'm really tired of idiots with bright eyes cheering yet another expensive achievement of the pharmacology that allows somebody to do even less real work for themselves gobbling pills instead.
And, finally, here is the way to change your bad luck and become what you can become: link [slashdot.org]
One does not need to become religious, but the "correctional" part of mysticism might help one to get both the body and mind healthy and live much more fulfilled life that will sure have some love in it
ObSimpson Quote (Score:2)
This is news to me (Score:2)
Love is in the air (Score:2)
Another delivery system could be transdermal if the oxycotin molecule is small enough to make it through the dermal layers. You could combine some of it with chapstick for mo
Re:I would give half my life (Score:2, Funny)
Followed by
Re:I would give half my life (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Just chemicals (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0 8 12 966678/qid=1076794438//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104 -1945870-9039113?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
called A Certain Chemistry focuses on this very subject.
Its the tale of a guy who cheats on his long-term g/f told from the perspective of god. Its a great book for anyone who's just been dumped or has turned all bitter. ^_^
It explains alot of the chemical theories behind love and lust.
Although personally i dont have a p
Re:What a bunch of friggin nerds! (Score:2, Interesting)
I have been married once before and raised two children on my own. I'm now a grandfather.
My son is a minister. And all this despite everything.
I divorced my ex because she turned out to be a slut and a whore and would not accept responsiblity for her own actions.
So you see, I'm far from naive and I do not go into my new marriage blindly. I stayed single for 10 years after I divorced the ex, feeling that I did not want to ever do it again. But love has struck and I
Re:It's a Brave New World (Score:2)
Yes, I'm one of them (Catholic
Re:Powder form (Score:2)
While I don't think that just spiking a drink with this stuff will get a girl to love you. Seems like it can't hurt, especially when combined with other strategies.
How long before Oxytocin/Pitocin attains the same reputation as those "date rape drugs". Time to stock up before it becomes a "scheduled"