Spirit Rover Communications Error 824
cybrthng writes "Through yesterdays press release and the current Nasa Briefing there is news that they are having communications errors with contacting spirit. Is she lost or is it something akin to the Pathfinder failures that happened? Or did little green people claim an expensive tonka truck toy?"
Mars Defense System (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Mars Defense System (Score:5, Funny)
It was never intended to send the EU any data, it's a Special Ops lander.
It's spent the past month hunting down Spirit Rover and maintinaing radio silence.
Spirit will be on the end of a solar powered swiss army knife by now.
Damn viruses (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Damn viruses (Score:5, Funny)
Well, Beagle's failure probably did have something to do with slamming.
Re:Mars Defense System (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Mars Defense System (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Mars Defense System (Score:5, Funny)
here [gargaro.com]
Hoax (Score:4, Funny)
Jawas. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Jawas. (Score:5, Funny)
This is the droid we are looking for!
--
In London? Need a Physics Tutor? [colingregorypalmer.net]
American Weblog in London [colingregorypalmer.net]
Re:Jawas. (Score:5, Funny)
He then tried to sell a reporter an R2 unit with a bad motivator, which promptly fried before the transaction was even completed.
It's obvious but... (Score:5, Funny)
Whoever sets up the Martian Automobile Association is going to make a lot of money.
Re:Mars Defense System (Score:5, Funny)
Oh wait...
Re:Mars Defense System (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Mars Defense System (Score:4, Insightful)
100% lame and tired.
Re:Mars Defense System (Score:5, Funny)
Response from the rover (Score:5, Funny)
The latest communication feed has just arrived. Strangely, the only imformation transmitted is:
> Y0ur r0v3r i5 0wn3d!
Opportunity (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Opportunity (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:You poor deluded fool... (Score:5, Funny)
I don't see it as losing 75 cents, per se, but gaining a shitload of change when I kick the fuck out of the machine... and I still don't have the damn chips.
Re:You poor deluded fool... (Score:4, Funny)
The lesson here is clear. Don't kick the machines. That's immature and dangerous.
Instead, return with a baseball bat
Re:or a ferret (Score:5, Funny)
I had a pet ferret name Ishido, who somehow knew how to climb into a vending machine and release all sorts of goodies. I didnt' teach him this but one day at the laundry mat he snuck up into the machine in the soda tray then after a minute of calling at him about four sodas and a ferret fell out. surprisingly he could repeat the trick.
Re:You poor deluded fool... (Score:4, Informative)
Personally I prefer a good side kick. It leaves you with space to hop out of the way, and if done right will get you several items and some spare change
I found it! (Score:5, Funny)
BSOD (Score:5, Funny)
Re:BSOD (Score:5, Funny)
Re:BSOD (Score:5, Informative)
Re:BSOD (Score:5, Funny)
Re:BSOD (Score:5, Funny)
Obviously it doesn't...
Re:Unbounded priority inversion (Score:4, Informative)
priority inversion can be protected for however the mutex can be coded in two states. Priority Inversion Safe and non priority inversion safe. Unfortunately they forgot to turn the priority inversion protection on. Programming error, plain and simple.
Re:Java bot (Score:5, Insightful)
IANAJPLR (I am not a JPL researcher) but I'm sure, however, there's a whole bunch of fail-safes that would kick in so that the worst case scenario is a loss of one day's worth of scientific data, if that.
Re:Java bot (Score:5, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
WHen we finally get humans there.. (Score:5, Funny)
Maeryk
Re:Don't worry, it's just taking a rest (Score:5, Funny)
not as bad as it sounds. (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, NASA's DSN (Deep Space Network) has been able to send commands asking Spirit to send tones on X-Band, and has received the response tones back. This confirms that at least the low gain antenna, antenna switch, x-band receiver, and x-band tone transmitter are functional.
Perhaps a software fault or a synchronization problem with the radios is preventing valid daa frames from being transmitted. The fact that so much is known to functional argues against a failure that will incapacitate the spacecraft indefinitely. In the coming days, if communications are not restored, the spacecraft will enter safe modes that cause it to try harder to transmit and will reset subsystems. I am optimistic at this point.
Re:not as bad as it sounds. (Score:5, Interesting)
If it is corruption of secondary memory, and since they can send valid commands, presumably they can attempt to upload new data/code to fix it.
If they haven't forced it through safe mode, then they're not too worried and are more interested in characterizing the problem than getting on with the scientific mission. Which is a good or a bad thing depending on which sort of information is more valuable. I'm sure the guys in the software group have their bias.
Re:not as bad as it sounds. (Score:5, Informative)
Not impossible, but relatively unlikely with deep-space grade hardware. It'd require a double fault to create a detectable error, and more than that to create an undetectable one.
If they haven't forced it through safe mode, then they're not too worried and are more interested in characterizing the problem than getting on with the scientific mission. Which is a good or a bad thing depending on which sort of information is more valuable. I'm sure the guys in the software group have their bias.
They've had one day, and much of that was spent thinking the problem was because of thunderstorms/atmospheric vapor near Canberra and dish tracking problems were causing communications errors. It's important to get some idea of the problem before you go shoving things into safe modes because you may make things worse (if it's a power bus fault, for instance).
Re:not as bad as it sounds. (Score:5, Funny)
Umm, no, I'm quite sure it's a hardware problem.
Re:not as bad as it sounds. (Score:5, Funny)
1) It is a hardware problem. OR
2) It is a software problem.
I lean towards (1) as nobody that I work with created the software for this device.
Re:not as bad as it sounds. (Score:5, Funny)
Hopefully, that would work. However, it will be pretty annoying if all of the images it sends back after that are 16-color 640x480 GIFs with the words "Safe Mode" overlayed in the four corners.
Re:not as bad as it sounds. (Score:5, Funny)
In the coming days, if communications are not restored, the spacecraft will enter safe modes that cause it to try harder to transmit and will reset subsystems.
They sent the second rover, Opportunity, for just this reason: to hold down the F8 key on the Spirit while it reboots.
(Oblique Windows joke.)
Re:not as bad as it sounds. (Score:5, Insightful)
He probably gets NASA TV on his TV system. I'm watching it now and they're going over this stuff. There's a press conference ongoing.
Re:not as bad as it sounds. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:not as bad as it sounds. (Score:5, Informative)
But I agree it is likely the rover is reporting it is faulted, even if it is not a sure thing yet.
Re:not as bad as it sounds. (Score:5, Informative)
When it comes to clocks, it is somewhat complicated. The rover keeps a clock, and usually finds earth by locating the sun in the sky. It has a set of keplerian/rotational elements for both Earth around the Sun and the MGS/Odyssey around Mars, and thus knows when they rise and set in the sky. This tells it when to transmit and where to point the antenna.
Full duplex communications are possible on xband, so transmitting and receiving do not need to be synchronized. Blocks of data are sent with error correction codes-- as they arrive intact, messages are sent telling the rover to delete them. Retransmits can also be requested if the data is particularly interesting and missing (but often aren't, as witnessed by the number of empty portions of images.
UHF is usually just used to offload additional data from the rover during the night to the satellites. The delays are short and the protocols are thus more conventional.
Re:not as bad as it sounds. (Score:5, Informative)
On Tuesday, I talked with some of the project scientists for a TechTV interview that's running next week on Screen Savers. One of the many things I learned from them was that they upload new software, and patches, and all that stuff with surprising frequency and ease.
The thing that really blew my mind was, in order to make their launch date, they just coded enough commands to get the thing there, and sent all the software to drive around and research stuff after the landing while the spacecraft was in transit.
I really hope they solve this current problem, and get the mission back on track. They are SUPER cool people at JPL who are working on this.
A fatal exception 0E has occurred..... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:A fatal exception 0E has occurred..... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:A fatal exception 0E has occurred..... (Score:5, Funny)
Ha ha (Score:5, Funny)
Score one for our defence department. God save the Queen!
Re:Ha ha (Score:5, Funny)
Let's hope its just software (Score:5, Interesting)
It sounds like we still have power and an antenna. Hopefully its just some software error will need a reboot to correct the problem. I think they were late debugging this stuff and actually had to upload the software after the launch. Maybe they missed something.
The only issue I heard was some voltage spikes when the high-gain antenna was rotated. They were not reproduced but perhaps some underlying problem has occurred.
Up to now, NASA has made this look so easy. This is a wake-up call. Putting robots unto another planet is still an epic achievement and so much is left to go wrong even after the landing is over.
Let's hope this is just a red screen of death and a reboot will shake things loose.
Re:Let's hope its just software (Score:5, Funny)
The Martians probably just upgraded the codecs.
Re:Let's hope its just software (Score:5, Funny)
Ah, that would be the NSA encryption kicking in. Actually, there was one decipherable message: "I'm sorry, JPL, I can't do that."
Soil Science is so interesting. (Score:3, Funny)
Radio update (Score:3, Informative)
I hope that they track it down and can fix it easily; Spirit was one of the coolest things going in recent weeks, and was providing a welcome break from all the election primary coverage.
I also really hope we don't degenerate into a `hah, you laughed at Beagle, now it's your turn` style flamewar. Hell, I'll actually settle for one or the other.
Re:Radio update (Score:4, Informative)
They haven't quite given up on Beagle 2 yet. For the last few days its controllers have not sent any communications to Mars. Assuming that the lander is in one piece, it should now have switched to a beacon mode which will transmit throughout the Martian day.
ESA will begin listening for Beagle 2 again over the weekend, but this is very much a last-ditch attempt.
Best wishes,
Mike.
Not The End Of The World (Score:5, Informative)
Last Transmission (Score:5, Funny)
[end carrier]
Check it out... (Score:3, Interesting)
I sure hope this does better than some of the others so far.. Otherwise we might already know it's fate.
Conspiracy Theory (Score:5, Funny)
Nothing to see here, move along (Score:3, Insightful)
I suppose if I was ambitious, this would be a good time for a joke about sSFGKJL%% NO CARRIER
The most annoying thing... (Score:5, Funny)
Somewhere deep within its electronics, there's an error that was trapped. The message, which would be displayed if only there was a monitor onboard,
simply reads:
Doh.
Lesson learned: be sure to handle your exceptions properly.
Re:The most annoying thing... (Score:5, Funny)
"Which one's the any key?"
you joke (Score:4, Interesting)
When we tried to run the satellite without the terminal, the low level hardware CTS/DTR loopback wasn't present and the satellite hung when it tried to send its first character to the console. We caught that only a couple weeks before shipping the thing, too!
certainly the communications software. (Score:5, Funny)
Newsconferece replays (Score:5, Informative)
Its been reported that a signal was sent to Spirit this morning to try and figure out whether it was in fault mode or not, and preliminary results suggest that Spirit is in fault mode. This is preliminary data and was announced half way through the news conference.
There is as of yet no reliable information as to what the state of Spirit is.
No offence to the original submitter (Score:5, Funny)
"ghettoboy22 writes "Multiple news [msn.com] services are reporting [bbc.co.uk] the Martian Interplanetary Defence Force (MIDF) has successfully captured an extraterrestial craft codenamed "Spirit" [space.com] on the outskirts of a small village in Lower Gusev province two days ago, coming on the heals of the successful downing of another [beagle2.com] invasion craft last month. Speculation has insued from Spirit's handlers on Earth who are suggesting the craft was hit with the much feared Martian "Cosmic Ray" computer viri, causing it to speak nothing but jibberish. No worries though - our buddies will have their work cut out for them when Spirit's sister-ship "Opportunity" [nasa.gov] makes it's decent from Martian orbit in T minus 58 hours!""
Bush knew about this in advance! (Score:5, Funny)
Somewhere deep in the bowels of NASA (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Somewhere deep in the bowels of NASA (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe Garbled Commands? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is it at all possible that getting half commands or garbled commands has confused Sprit?
Re:Maybe Garbled Commands? (Score:5, Informative)
Apparently, Tidbinbilla is one of only 3 stations tracking Spirit from Earth. If it's out, they have to wait until Spirit is visible from over the horizon at another station before they can communicate.
If we can't communicate with Spirit . . . (Score:5, Funny)
Mars Crossing Over
with John Edwards
"I see . . . red rocks! Lots and lots of red rocks! Does that sound familiar?"
"Why, why yes!"
"Now, did this Spirit have . . . are they wheels?"
"Oh, oh yes, yes, Spirit does have wheels! Please, ask it if it's OK!"
"It says it's on a flat, red plain covered with red rocks, and that it's found life and water and everything there is peaceful and cool."
"Oh, thank you, thank you Mr. Edwards!"
Stefan
BOT WARS (Score:5, Funny)
And it sat.. covered in martian dust.. WAITING for Spirit to leave its safety nest in the landing pod..
the only thing missing is an announcer trying to sound worked up over the idea of two robots tearing each other to pieces!
Maeryk
Beagle (Score:5, Insightful)
Now I'm going to say this: would all the people that bragged about NASA/JPL doing so much better than the Beagle team be quiet?
Guess what. Landing a complex machine on another planet is not easy. It's simply amazing humans can even do this at all. When something goes wrong, we can't exactly reach out and tap the little thing a few times to see if it fixes it.
The teams behind both Spirit and Beagle did excellent work against the insane list of Things That Can Go Wrong in getting something from here to there. Both teams did their best, and both teams make me feel very proud of the human race.
Re:Beagle (Score:5, Insightful)
Touchdown is the most dangerous, hardest part of the operation to get right. Beagle didn't do that (we assume), Spirit did. Beagle got to the vicinity of the planet - but we've been successful many times in hurling an object at Mars and getting it in the neighborhood.
Now they know (Score:5, Funny)
Richard Hoagland is gonna be soooooo all over this.
From the webcast (Score:5, Interesting)
Last transmission.. (Score:5, Funny)
Which translated to..
"We 0wn3d j00r b0x f00lz! S3nd L1nux b0xez N ch1cks n3xt t1me!"
It's a conspiracy, I say! A c-o-n-... spiracy! (Score:5, Funny)
He is intentionally making us all evil to work in his sulfur mines that will be on Venus when we arrive in Hell! Won't SOMEONE PLEASE think of the children!
(Don't mod me down for trolling, it's a joke. Don't like it? Ignore it, probably means you have good taste in humor.)
ping went out and the pong came back (Score:5, Informative)
Stay tuned ...
Spirit status updates (Score:5, Informative)
new hires at nasa (Score:5, Funny)
The NASA CEO issued a statement in which he said the repetitive and excited tone of a late night infomercial he watched left him utterly convinced that Miss Cleo could indeed communicate with the the Spirit and all problems should be fixed by Monday.
He also touted the hire as a money saving measure because 'most communications with the Spirit tend to last about 30 seconds, but with Miss Cleo the first five minutes is only $1.95!'
The last theory I heard... (Score:5, Funny)
What does the Spirit OS look like? (Score:5, Interesting)
What does the system do if it determines it has had an unexpected result/crash? How is such a system designed and tested?
I've never thought about it before - but a system like this must have redundant levels of i/o security, internal error checking, exception trapping, and some sort of self-repair, all built within multiply redundant systems.
Would any details of the embedded system architecture / program structure be available to the public?
Re:What does the Spirit OS look like? (Score:5, Informative)
Mars Rover Interface on Earth (Score:5, Funny)
You are standing in an open field west of a red rock, with a crusty appearance.
There is a small mailbox here.
>open mailbox
Opening the mailbox reveals a leaflet.
>read leaflet
(taken)
"WELCOME TO MARS!
INFORMATION ON THE PATHFINDER/SOJOURNER FAULT: (Score:5, Interesting)
These kinds of problems are not unprecedented, and furthermore I'm under the impression there are options for dealing with even serious OS-level trouble that would shock and awe the average general purpose computer user.
Don't say that (Score:5, Funny)
Jennifer Trosper, Mission Manager for the Mars Exploration Rover project ...
"The rover remains in excellent shape for trundling over to the nearby crater," Trosper said. "The spacecraft continues to amaze me. There's nothing to make me think that this vehicle isn't going to last a long time," she concluded.
Oops.
Wouldn't It Be Nice.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Robots are great until they break.
Martian Conservatives (Score:5, Funny)
Contact Re-Established! (Score:5, Funny)
Good news - The Spirit rover has contacted JPL!
Bad News - It has detected a new device and is asking for the Windows Install CD to be inserted to continue.
Update 4:00PM EST (Score:5, Informative)
remember pathfinder in 97? (Score:5, Informative)
Pathfinder [nasa.gov] in it's 1997 landing (04JUL1997) suffered a series of unexplained system failures [kohala.com]. David Wilner CTO of WindRiver Systems [windriver.com], the creators of WxWorks the realtime embedded system kernel talked to IEEE Real-Time Systems Symposium at a later date explaining how they solved software bugs in the system.
this article [kohala.com] explains how they solved the problem - by including the debug code with the os. I remember reading about this on /. some time ago. A detailed account can be read here [microsoft.com] by Glenn Reeves (JPL Mars Flight SE).
Windriver systems is supplying [windriver.com] the OS for the current mission. Lets see how long it takes them to work this one out :)
links:l [kohala.com] r itative_Account.html [microsoft.com]
www.kohala.com/start/papers.others/pathfinder.htm
research.microsoft.com/~mbj/Mars_Pathfinder/Autho
Re:It escaped!! (Score:5, Funny)
Counterpoint (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Coincidence (Score:5, Funny)
Ahem. Spirit's on Mars. The MAF failed it. Give credit where it's due - this was a Martian Army operation.
The Martian Air Force gets to try and redeem themselves this weekend.
I'd say something about the Martian Marine Corps, but of course, we can't keep our damn probes working long enough to find out if the Martians need a Marine Corps.
Re:hold on, it's just the java garbage collector! (Score:5, Informative)
Also, the chip they use, a radiation hardened 6000 CPU comes from the days before Java was even thought of. Read up on the facts first.