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Science Technology

Matrix-Style Brain Interface Closer To Reality 567

Posted by timothy from the be-your-own-neo dept.
atkulp writes "According to this Wired article, a private company, Cyberkinetics is seeking permission from the FDA to test a product called BrainGate that implants in the brain and can control actions on a computer. So far it works for monkeys and they'd like to see it as viable for quadriplegics and others in need. How soon until anyone can become the ultimate expansion card? Sign me up!"
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Matrix-Style Brain Interface Closer To Reality More

Matrix-Style Brain Interface Closer To Reality

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  • screw the matrix (Score:5, Funny)

    by proj_2501 ( 78149 ) <mkb@ele.uri.edu> on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:25PM (#7977242) Journal
    I can get a remote-controlled monkey?!

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:25PM (#7977248)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:Quake? Warcraft? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by thelaw ( 100964 )
      "what happens if i die in the matrix?"

      "the body cannot live without the mind."

      jon the "morpheust"

    • Re:Quake? Warcraft? (Score:5, Funny)

      by DanThe1Man ( 46872 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:33PM (#7977381)
      Dude, if you want realistic fighting with the chance of possible brain damage, just join the army.

    • Re:Quake? Warcraft? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by lukior ( 727393 )
      I think if the implants improved to the level for use in video games they would be banned just like performance enhancing drugs like steroids are in sports.

      • Re:qu4k3??? w4r cr4f7???/ (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Deraj DeZine ( 726641 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:47PM (#7977618)
        I would imagine that there would probably be separate arenas/competitions for physical-interface games and (not sure what the word is) neural-interface games. Just because, like the top-level poster said, it would generate an unfair advantage.

        Frankly, I'd prefer to see neural-interface match-ups because then the games become less of a matter of how well you can properly wield a mouse, but it relies more on strategy. Presumably, all the characters would have the same "physical" (in the game) abilities, so it would be up to the players' strategies and luck to determine who would win.

    • Warcraft3 sux (Score:3, Interesting)

      by CrazyJim0 ( 324487 )
      Starcraft had some strategy depth to it.

      If you plugged your brain into Warcraft3, it'd be like,"This is your brain. This is your brain in a microwave."

      For real, I competed on a world class level for a while, so I know my shit. First one to 1500 wins.

      Blizzard must have lucked out with Starcraft, because the way they balanced Warcraft was borderline retarded.

  • Yes, but .. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Autonomous Cowherder ( 741529 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:26PM (#7977252)
    .. will I be able to run Linux?

  • Not exactly the Matrix (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Orion442 ( 739483 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:26PM (#7977255)
    This would enable handicap people to control machines, not vice-versa. It would be killer for fighter pilots though...
    • This would enable handicap people to control machines, not vice-versa.

      Isn't that basicaly what the Matrix is, at least half of it? Humans controlled their virtual beings inside the machines. The only difference is that the machines also presented an alternate view of reality, which this technology would not do (though there is work on that as well, especially for the blind/deaf/etc.).

    • Re:Not exactly the Matrix (Score:5, Funny)

      by Lane.exe ( 672783 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:33PM (#7977382) Homepage
      It would be killer for fighter pilots though

      I thought so too, until I realised that the human brain has a tendency to wander. Sure, in the middle of aerial combat they'd be focused, but can you imagine what would happen in the case that some pilot is cruising along and thinks of his girlfriend back home? Yeah that's right... a very sharp climb into a stall.

    • stay away from me, hee.

      Why does technology for purposes of automated control always sound so cute when first released? Then you face the reality of a life filled with biometric monitoring chips and automated traffic light camera police.

      For your safety, help take a bite out of true crime. Fight technocracy.
    • Damn! I need to be able to control handicapped people with a machine. I was planning to enter my great uncle in robot wars.

  • Nice, they've got Matlab routines... (Score:5, Informative)

    by tcopeland ( 32225 ) * <tom AT thomasleecopeland DOT com> on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:26PM (#7977256) Homepage
    ...for processing the data [bionictech.com] from the microelectrode arrays.

    Yes, the above link goes to another web site called "bionictech.com", but the two companies merged in 2002 [cyberkineticsinc.com].

    • Re:Nice, they've got Matlab routines... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by blakestah ( 91866 ) <blakestah@gmail.com> on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:44PM (#7977573) Homepage
      Yep. John Donoghue (of Brown) has been working on this stuff for a few years, and his former postdoc, implant engineer Nikos Hatsopoulos is another key person at Cyberkinetics. But this is really Donoghue's baby.

      They've adopted the Richard Normann's (of Bionic Tech) implants (the Utah grid), and they are working fairly well for time periods up to a year. You can expect them to be the first to do human studies, and for quite a lot to be learned about the brain in the process, as well as dramatic improvements in the lives of their test patients.

      I'm quite excited to see how it goes for them, and hope for the best.

  • Wow... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Undaar ( 210056 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:26PM (#7977264) Homepage
    So far it works for monkeys...

    Can they use it to teach the monkeys to program?
    That would make them the ultimate code monkeys!
    *ducks*
    • Hey, I have enough problems finding work without having to worry about primates.
    • It's been done [microsoft.com]

    • Hey! (Score:2)

      by El ( 94934 )
      It was bad enough when they outsourced my job to India... now you want them to outsource it to the primate exhibit at the zoo!

    • Re:Wow... (Score:4, Funny)

      by worst_name_ever ( 633374 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:44PM (#7977566)
      That would make them the ultimate code monkeys!

      One time I hired a code monkey to write code for me at work. I would just sit there with my mind a complete blank while the monkey typed on a little keyboard. At the end of the project my boss said "Team, I want you to give a presentation on your code." So I made some PowerPoint slides that said "Hello, my name is Bingo. I like to climb on things. Can I have a banana? Eek eek." I got fired and my job was transferred to India. When I told my wife about it she said, "I told you, never trust a monkey!" The end.

      • For anyone that doesn't recognize this, it's an adaptation of a monologue done by Brak from the Space Ghost crew on Cartoon Network. Here's the original [c4vct.com]:

        One time I hired a monkey to take notes for me in class. I would just sit there with my mind a complete blank while the monkey scribbled on little pieces of paper. At the end of the week the teacher said, "Class, I want you to write a paper using your notes." So I wrote a paper that said "Hello, my name is Bingo. I like to climb on things. Can I have a ba

    • Re:Wow... (Score:3, Funny)

      by cygnus ( 17101 )
      Can they use it to teach the monkeys to program?

      That would make them the ultimate code monkeys!
      *ducks*
      that's just not right.

      code monkeys have to be *monkeys*, not ducks!

  • Ugh... (Score:5, Funny)

    by ManicGiraffe ( 558896 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:27PM (#7977278)
    So....imagine a Beowulf cluster of *me*!

    [rimshot...]

  • sign me up (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rogabean ( 741411 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:27PM (#7977282)
    sign me up as well! i have wondered though when they seriously would start implementing computer based implants in our brains. it actually seems quite logical as a "next step" sorta thing. i remember when me and friends used to joke that one day we'd be able to add extra memory (RAM) to our brains. watch this have DRM on it! (lol)

    • Re:sign me up (Score:3, Insightful)

      by JediDan ( 214076 )
      Unfortunately believable... The company pays for a brain upgrade that's enabled/disabled at the door and it makes for a more efficient and capable worker. Wrong or right?
  • Now when I run around telling eveyrone that the government put a chip in my brain, it won't mean anything!

  • Hackers... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by xSquaredAdmin ( 725927 )
    They better make it pretty secure. It would really suck to have someone hack your brain, especially since backing up your brain is a bit difficult right now.

  • No M$ for mine... (Score:5, Funny)

    by BitWarrior ( 692600 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:28PM (#7977297)
    I'm game as long as it's not controlled by Windows. I can see it now, it's the ultimate experience in VR except for the minor annoyance of crashing and killing the connected users after a few days.

  • I wonder if this would work backwards? Is this the gateway to using the human brain as a computer? (After all, we only use a portion of it...)

  • Not like The Matrix at all (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Soul Brother #1 ( 15266 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:29PM (#7977305)
    This really isn't Matrix-like at all, though. The implant doesn't feed information to your brain, it only gets information from it. Still, it's VERY cool if it works and is safe. I like the idea they mention of also putting implants into paralyzed limbs to allow the brain implant to move them. Eat it, paralyzation!

    -W
    --

    • Re:Not like The Matrix at all (Score:5, Funny)

      by SpyPlane ( 733043 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:34PM (#7977412)
      If it can get information from my brain, can I finally prove to my wife that I have no f-ing clue what she is talking about most of the time, or that I REALLY don't care where we go eat friday!

      Let me know.

    • True, this application is for reading data, not writing data, but can the other be far behind? (Well, yes it can, but the idea is there.)

      I'm somewhat disturbed that some people's first thought is how this could be used in the military. While there's no doubt that the DoD will be first on the list to play with such toys (that is if they're arent' already in some hidden lab), I'd prefer the focus to be on the medical and scientific uses, especially dealing the quad- and paraplegics, ALS, Parkinson's, etc. I

  • Regretting... (Score:5, Funny)

    by i_want_you_to_throw_ ( 559379 ) * on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:30PM (#7977325) Journal
    How soon until anyone can become the ultimate expansion card? Sign me up!"

    Damned ISA interface! I was told when it was welded on that it was all I would need. That and 640K!

  • I want my math coprocessor (Score:4, Funny)

    by ITR81 ( 727140 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:30PM (#7977331)
    Doesn't everyone need this??

    Don't forget ram doubler. I would love to store memories.

  • We are the Borg (Score:5, Interesting)

    by NetDanzr ( 619387 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:30PM (#7977334)
    So let's see. First, we connect our brains to the computer. Then we create Internet 3, by directly linking our brains. Then a new anti-terrorism bill outlaws firewalls, and our brains will be wide open to each other. Can anybody say "collective consciousness"?
  • I could make a long comment about it but everyone will just go to the link anyways. here ya go!
    http://www.health24.co.za/news/Brain_Neurolog ical/ 1-896,25078.asp
  • this is scary, although at least at the moment when you're plugged in you are able to communicate with the machine and the real world, unlike the matrix, where you are either fully in or fully out.

    think what would happen if a virus made a leap from our reality to the machine reality; or the other way round...

  • I'll pass (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Z4rd0Z ( 211373 ) <joseph at mammalia dot net> on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:32PM (#7977359) Homepage
    People who are eager for this sort of thing puzzle me. Maybe I'm a little paranoid, but I'd like to stay as far away from this as possible. I don't say this to be a luddite, but there are definite limits to where I would personally go with technology.
    • If I lost a limb, I'd try anything to get it back, even something crazy like this.

      Conversely, there will likely come a day when artificial limbs are superior to natural ones (and advanced brain surgery like this would likewise be easier, safer, and more commonplace).

    • Re:I'll pass (Score:5, Informative)

      by nodwick ( 716348 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:49PM (#7977650)
      People who are eager for this sort of thing puzzle me. Maybe I'm a little paranoid, but I'd like to stay as far away from this as possible. I don't say this to be a luddite, but there are definite limits to where I would personally go with technology.
      I think you're mistaking the application for this. Dozens of Slashdot posts about the Matrix notwithstanding, this isn't an elective surgery targeted towards geeks who want to get one step closer to their machines. The company line is that it's aimed primarily at quadriplegics who have a choice of either continuing to be unable to interact with their environment or having a shot at gaining some more function.

      In spirit, it's similar to prosthetic devices that people have already been developing that operate using nerve impulses, such as prosthetic legs with knees that "bend" via sensors which pick up nerve impulses in the quadriceps. It's just that with people who are more severely disabled, you're going to have to move closer to the brain to pick up live nerve impulses. It'll probably be a long time (if ever) before this moves into being an elective procedure for entertainment purposes; the Matrix-speak from the Wired article seems to be just typical media sensationalization to give the story a little more juice.

      • Re:I'll pass (Score:5, Insightful)

        by YrWrstNtmr ( 564987 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @05:44PM (#7978422)
        ...this isn't an elective surgery targeted towards geeks who want to get one step closer to their machines.
        It'll probably be a long time (if ever) before this moves into being an elective procedure for entertainment purposes;

        Just like plastic surgery was only used for birth defects and accident reconstruction
        Just like stomach stapling was only to be used on the morbidly obese
        Just like Viagara was only to be used for serious erectile problems

        Given a procedure, there will be some who want it (and very early on) simply because it's 'cool'. And there will be doctors who will supply it for the right sum.

    • Re:I'll pass (Score:3, Insightful)

      by RetroGeek ( 206522 )
      I'd like to stay as far away from this as possible

      You may not have a choice, IF you want to stay competetive.

      Real Soon Now(tm) the implants will be able to be "read' by our brains. Then you have two-communication with a computer just by thinking about it.

      So, instant:
      1. computations, including complex transforms
      2. reference look up. Who needs a library?
      3. communications (holy shit, can you imagine the spam???)

      And these are just off the top of my head (pun?). I am sure that once this becomes common the applica

    • Re:I'll pass (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Dread_ed ( 260158 )
      My father was crippled by a severe case of polio. He caught the disease when he was only 10 years old. Because of the nerve and muscle tissue dammage he did not walk until highschool, and then only with full braces and crutches. Now that he is getting older, the neurological and muscular symptoms he had when he was 10 years old are resurfacing and he is again confined to a bed, unable to even help himself sit up, or to breathe on his own (he has a respirator connected to a trache).

      If this technology was

    • Re:I'll pass (Score:4, Interesting)

      by dr_canak ( 593415 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @05:59PM (#7978577)
      I work with spinal cord injured individuals. One patient in particular is a "locked-in" quadraplegic. What this means is that, in addition to not being able to move anything from his neck down (he is on a ventilator), he cannot speak. Because of a surgery complication, he bled into his lower brainstem, preventing any sort of muscular control of his mouth. It has also left him with a significant astigmatism and eye spasms preventing him from looking in one direction or controlling his eye gaze for any length of time (even short lengths of time like a few secs).

      So in addition to being completely paralyzed, he can't speak and can't use any eye gaze adaptive devices. He can't use his mouth for tongue depressed switches, and because of facial muscle spasms, even EMG biofeedback has been ruled-out. He is a very rare patient (condition wise) but this is the kind of technology that would really be appropriate/needed for a patient with his level of disability. So gloom and doom matrix/personal privacy issues aside, these kinds of technology can be of paramount importance to paralyzed individuals.

      And for those wondering, he communicates using an upward eye gaze and memorized letterboard.

      1 a b c d e
      2 f g h i j
      3 k l m n o
      4 p q r s t
      5 u v w x y z

      You basically go, "line 1, line 2, line 3,..." etc until he looks up (for "yes"). You then move across the correct row until he looks up to designate the letter. In this way, he can spell his way through communication. I once joked with him its like Wheel of Fortune meets Jeopardy on steroids. Cumbersome, but its the only way, and you can get surprisingly good at it with practice.

      jeff

  • I'd love one. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nate1138 ( 325593 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:32PM (#7977366)
    My biggest complaint about computing is that my brain->computer interface (hands to keyboard that is) is VERY low bandwidth and VERY high latency. And I know I can't be the only one that has this problem. Anybody that codes knows what I mean, you can visualize and solve the problem in your head much faster than you can get that solution into the computer.

    • Yeah... it would be really cool to think about code and have it written and debugged for me... :-) It would be like a manager, only better!

  • One Question... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by FortKnox ( 169099 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:32PM (#7977367) Homepage Journal
    ... How can we try to control things with our brain when science doesn't fully understand the brain?
    • We dont have to fully understand the brain in order for this to work. It's a hack, trial and error. When something works, stick with it, if it doesnt work, try something else. We dont fully understand nuclear physics, but reactors work pretty well.

    • ...How do we write code in C++?

    • How can you walk, when you don't have a clue how your brain controls your legs?
    • I might ask you, how can you ride a bicycle, when you aren't capable of explaining to me how you accomplish it?

      Why are we able to send spacecraft to Mars when we don't fully understand gravity?

      Why are we able to build quantum computers when we really have no understanding of the actual nature of quantum particles?

      Etc etc...

  • CTRL-ALT-DEL (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    How can I think all three at the same time? Ahh ... I see a blue screen on the horizon.

  • Military uses (Score:2, Insightful)

    by v_1_r_u_5 ( 462399 )
    This is really the first step towards cyborgs, instant control for fighter pilots, enhanced soldier response, etc. When you stop to think about the potential, it's pretty fascinating and a bit scary.

  • Hmmm... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Viking Coder ( 102287 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:33PM (#7977396)
    I, for one, welcome our new cyborg overlords.

  • Just be sure to run Ad-aware every week . . . (Score:3, Funny)

    by StefanJ ( 88986 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:35PM (#7977417) Homepage Journal
    . . . or you're just asking to be turned into a walking, talking spam bot:

    "Carbon units, take heed: Lengthen your reproductive extension! Wealthen yourself through expediting currency transfer for expired-dictator spouse-counterpart! Observe vixen-type hu-mans frolicking in their dorm-units!"*

    Stefan

    * Stilted borg language added for comedic effect.

  • Encryption (Score:3, Funny)

    by xSquaredAdmin ( 725927 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:35PM (#7977433)
    How do they come up with the encryption keys?

    "Alright, now think of any number between 0 and 18446744073709551615."

    OR, if you're using 128-bit encryption:

    "...between 0 and 3.4028236692093846346337460743177x10^38"

  • Gimme Gimme Gimme!!!! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Stonan ( 202408 )
    Arthritis is really hindering my FPS ability!!

  • Another article on the same topic at PopSci (Score:4, Informative)

    by H0NGK0NGPH00EY ( 210370 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:37PM (#7977454) Homepage
    This was the cover story of the Popular Science that I just received in the mail. You can read the article here [popsci.com].
  • Are the monkeys going to take all the Visual Basic jobs out there?

  • I would have titled it "Neuromancer style...", ahh the days playing Cyberpunk with paper and pencil have long gone the way of the Dodo... Steve Jackson Games - where for art thou?
  • Anybody have any more substantial links to the information contained in the article? I'm curious to understand how they are planning to map the individual motor functions from the brain to the chip.

    Maybe I'm remembering too much of "The Terminal Man", but you can't stick this chip into somebody's brain and then expect it to hit a useful nerve bundle that is either surplus/redundant (I guess not a big concern with a quadraplegic) and, because of loss, the "normal" connections to it have not been rerouted/a

  • Just Remember.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by hardgeus ( 6813 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:44PM (#7977568)
    Just remember our experiences from the computer world...

    NEVER use BrainJack v1.0

    Always wait for the point release!
  • I RTFA, but couldn't find any mention of feedback travelling back to the brain, like our normal limbs do.

    Looks to me like the main form of feedback that the action has been completed would be in the form of audio and visual signals.

    Ofcourse, wiring information into the brain so that it can understand it would be *much* more difficult than interpreting information from the brain and translating it into signals that feed into devices we already understand.

    If feedback to the brain can really be made to w

  • ... until you realize your being hooked up to a microsoft product. Takes the blue screen of death to a whole new level.

  • Wow. (Score:5, Funny)

    by adun ( 127187 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:56PM (#7977742)
    Gives the phrase Blue Screen of Death a whole new lease on terror, doesn't it?

  • imagine the possibilities here: (Score:3, Insightful)

    by draco ni ( 42765 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @04:57PM (#7977759)
    On the one hand, we have the very very scary.


    The company's system, called BrainGate, could help patients with no mobility to control a computer, a robot or eventually their own rewired muscles

    ...


    Surgenor said the whole system eventually will be wireless.

    Stray EMI could give you a tic. Someone malicious could actually block/redirect/subvert control of your own body, remotely.


    On the other hand... telerobotics, maybe? Use your brain to control a robot doing a dangerous job somewhere! Going into a hazardous environment from the safety of your control lab...
    Or maybe even a totally virtual environment.

  • Comparable to Voicemail recognition. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by elrick_the_brave ( 160509 ) on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @05:01PM (#7977804)
    While I laud the effort, it will be a long time before this becomes a proper human interface. Take computer voice recognition... it's still in it's infancy despite years of 'progress'. The issues at hand:
    i) How long it takes the computer to learn how to interpret the signals and what they relate to(its training).
    ii) The training involved for the human to keep a 'steady mind'. How does the system bypass clutter?

    If those two issues are resolved or mitigated, this is a cool prospect.

  • Subject is misleading (Score:3, Informative)

    by bradbury ( 33372 ) <Robert DOT Bradbury AT gmail DOT com> on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @05:27PM (#7978167) Homepage
    While it is beginning to be quite feasible to begin to connect neurons in the brain or motor cortex to neurons or muscles whose normal connections to the brain have been disrupted this is a far cry from a Matrix-like interface.

    Current estimates by Robert Freitas [rfreitas.com] suggest that it is going to require at least a trillion nanorobots in place within the brain and most probably the installation of an extensive fiber optic network to handle the required bandwidth to provide a matrix-like interface (either for real time full bandwidth human-computer interfaces or for brain/mind uploading [ibiblio.org] into a computer). This may be documented to a limited extent in Ray Kurzweil's [kurzweilai.net] forthcoming book The Singularity is Near (est. publication early 2005) and perhaps to a greater extent in several years when Nanomedicine [nanomedicine.com] Volume III is published.

  • I don't like it... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mark-t ( 151149 ) <markt.nerdflat@com> on Wednesday January 14, 2004 @07:22PM (#7979529) Journal
    Science and technology often come head to head with the inevitable moral question that just because we _can_ do something, does that mean we _should_? But let's just say that we do go down this road, and once they've been tested and proven safe, how long will it be before they are foisted upon us as mandatory, with the ulterior motive that the powers that be would not only hold us accountable for what we do, but even the way we think?

    I generally embrace new technologies, but the potential disasters that this could create for humanity gives me the total creeps.

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