Body's Immune System can be Redirected

Ridgelift writes "BBC News have this story of a key chemical signalling system, called Notch, which governs how our body develops immune cells. By pre-treating patients who are about to undergo an organ transplant, it's possible to 'redirect' the immune system so it does not launch an attack on the donor organ. This may soon eliminate the need for transplant patients having to take a lifetime of powerful immunosuppressive drugs that have many unwanted side-effects."

redirecting the only option?

[kurosawdust]

does anyone know if the same principles used for redirecting can be applied to accelerate the development of immune system cells?

If so, please email me, as I would certainly prefer being superhuman and taking over the world.

Re:redirecting the only option?

[tibike77]

All I can say is: "marginally funny".
It clearly states in the article that this so-called "system" is based on pumping up the developement of certain immune cells (T suppressor cells) that "that put the brakes on any immune response".

So, obviously, it can be used for increasing your immune response directly, BUT this would mean your own body's T-cells *could* start attacking you instead of your "enemies" (viruses, whatever).

Re:redirecting the only option?

[xplenumx]

"does anyone know if the same principles used for redirecting can be applied to accelerate the development of immune system cells?"

How so? Seems to me what you're talking about is a vaccine.

I'd like to see that

[jtheory]

Overactive immune systems generally tend to attack healthy tissue (your white blood cells and antibodies NEVER fix damage anyway -- that's not their job).

Let's see you taking over the world with systemic autoimmune disorders.

"Who dares stand against ME! You shall feel the wrath of my lupus, arthritis, blistered skin, depression, blood clots, floater-filled vision, thyroiditis, and myositis!"

Running away, are you?! Come back here, I'll bite your kneecaps off!"

Multiple Sclerosis

[suss]

I wonder if this could somehow be adapted to treat Multiple sclerosis, where the immune system attacks its own myelin...

Any thoughts?

Re:Multiple Sclerosis

[bersl2]

Or auto-immune disorders in general?

Re:Multiple Sclerosis

[tibike77]

I can only repeat what I just posed in reply to the above post: theoretically, it could (read my reply on above "root" post for more info, or just read the article).

But this could yield unwanted side-effects - an artificially "too strong" or "too weak" immune system should have the same problems: either attacking everything, including you possibly (stronger one) or not attacking what it should at all (weaker one).

The "treatment" as-it-is decreases the rejection chance (four-fold if we are to believe these

Re:Multiple Sclerosis

[xplenumx]

But this could yield unwanted side-effects - an artificially "too strong" or "too weak" immune system should have the same problems: either attacking everything, including you possibly (stronger one) or not attacking what it should at all (weaker one).

You're confusing "too strong" and "too weak" with specificity. Autoimmune diseases result from the immune system attacking the wrong target (self). Having a given autoimmune disorder does not provide a boost in defending against cancer or an attack by a pathogen.

Immune suppressive drugs work by non-specifically decreasing the immune system as a whole. Immune suppressive drugs work by a method totally foreign to the immune system and parallels to how the immune system is regulated in a healthy individual can not be made.

I'm not that familiar with CD8+ suppressor T cells, however the jury is still out regarding if CD4+CD25+ suppressor cells are target specific or non-specific (data to support both).

The immune system is far more complicated that you're making it out to be.

Redirecting is easy

[TheRoachMan]

immunesystem > /dev/null

Misleading Slashdot summary

[xplenumx]

By pre-treating patients who are about to undergo an organ transplant, it's possible to 'redirect' the immune system so that it does not launch an attack on the donor organ.

A couple of quick points:
1. The experiments were done in mice, not humans.
2. All the mice undergoing the treatment underwent graft rejection.

During the early 80s scientists at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center [fhcrc.org] experimented with T-cell depleted stem cell transplants in an effort to prevent graft-versus-host disease (GvHD), a principal cause of death following bone marrow transplantation. The principle behind GvHD is similar to that of an organ rejection, except that the immune system recognizes the whole body as foreign and attacks it. When mice were given T-cell depleted transplants from MHC mismatched donors (something that promotes GvHD and is why you have to find a bone marrow donor match), their survival rates were identical to that of mice who receaved autologous transplants (they donated bone marrow to themselves - no GvHD). To say that the transplant community was excited would be an understatement. One prominent scientist even wrote that "we've (the transplant community) solved the problem of GvHD".

However, when clinical trials involving humans begain, it was quick discovered that while GvHD was reduced (not eliminated), there was a huge increase in graft failure (in otherwords, the patients didn't develop an immune system - very bad).

The immune system is a tricky thing. While mice are the experimental model, the experimental results don't always match those from humans. We can do a whole lot of things in vitro to mice cells that we can't even begin to duplicate in human lymphocytes. Additionally, mice and humans don't always share the same functional receptors (mice Ly-108 vs the human KIRs).

I applaud the BBC news report - at least they identified that the study was simply a step, used animals, and didn't cure the mice. The Slashdot summary is simply flat out incorrect.

Re:Misleading Slashdot summary

[gehrehmee]

What article were you reading?

Mice given a heart transplant following such treatment found that the length of time the new organ stayed unmolested by the immune system increased fourfold compared with untreated animals.

Yes, the mice all rejected the transplant, but the same happened in the untreated mice. The difference is that those who were treated lasted much longer. Keep in mind that this was in absense of any other immune-system suppressants: This treatment in conjection with a milder conventional treatment poses a substantial potential.

Re:Misleading Slashdot summary

[TwistedGreen]

The Slashdot summary is simply flat out incorrect.

Yeah, well, that's not exactly news either.

Distributed healing?

[dotgod]

So this means we can attach a bunch of people to a sick person and redirect all of their immune systems to the sick guy and heal him right?

Re:Distributed healing?

[momerath2003]

If by "heal" you mean "kill," then yes.

Excellent news for type 1 diabetics

[Anonymous Coward]

Although they've more or less gotten pancreas/islet cell transplants working, the major drawback (besides costs and availability of donors) was the fact you were simply trading insulin injections for anti-rejection drugs. The anti-rejection drugs had their own problems, which made this a less than ideal situation. Many people were hoping they'd come up with a way of making "cloned" islet cells from yourself so that your body wouldn't reject them.

Additionally, it's possible they could "fix" a type 1's immune system so it doesn't kill off the islet cells again anyway. And for newly diagnosed type 1's, they could potentially stop it in its tracks, and prevent any further islet cell loss.

Re:Excellent news for type 1 diabetics

[Guy Harris]

Some early studies seem to show that if you can stop the body attacking islet cells, you don't even need to transplant any.

Are you referring to this work at Harvard Medical School [harvard.edu]?

Re:Excellent news for type 1 diabetics

[Cosmonut]

Shit, I hope so. Type 1 is killing me.

Alternatively...

[FFFish]

...Isotechnika [isotechnika.com] has re-designed our old-standard drugs (Cyclosporin, stuff like that) to be far, far less toxic.

I don't understand it. Sounds good, though!

Commercial prediction

[MillionthMonkey]

When this drug hits the market, and they show commercials with heart transplant recipients dancing in meadows and gathering flowers, the gentle voice doing the voiceover will recite the following disclaimer:

If your immune system is not normal because of advanced HIV disease, make sure your doctor knows this to avoid a potentially serious complication."

Gee, sounds like a good idea!

Stem Cells

[Zw5]

The whole idea of using stem cell copies to make organs is that they wouldnt be rejected since they have the same make up of your own cells. But with this discovery, we might be able to use animal organs to have unlimited supplies of body parts, perhaps to live forever?

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