China Outlines Moon Project Goals 413
Kulic writes "SpaceDaily.com is reporting that China has announced 4 scientific goals for their Moon project. There are three general goals - orbiting the Moon, docking spacecraft with one another in lunar orbit, and returning moon rock samples to Earth. Each step is outlined, with a detailed description of what they hope to accomplish during the orbiting stage. It looks like China is serious about their space program, and is taking an incremental approach."
Go for it! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Go for it! (Score:2)
ON the downside, the derivative technology will mean better missles that can strike the US more accurately.
Re:Go for it! (Score:2, Redundant)
What?! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:What?! (Score:2, Funny)
But thats the problem with resturants on the moon
No Atmosphere
>
Re:What?! (Score:2)
Wha? (Score:3, Interesting)
Is this opposed to, say, the "do it all at once" approach?
The Chinese have put a man into orbit. That's a great success for them, considering there ain't too many other countries that have done it. But just assuming that, hey, it's a short trip to the moon is naive. There's no way they would have been able to take another flight straight to the moon, if only for lack of experience.
-Erwos
Re:Wha? (Score:2)
Is this opposed to, say, the "do it all at once" approach?
Since this is the approach the US used from a similar starting point, the Gemini & Mercury era, yes, as opposed to the "do it all at once" approach!
The Chinese have put a man into orbit. That's a great success for them, considering there ain't too many other countries that have done it...
Only two other countries, the USA and Russia. Three if you want to count the now defunct USSR and Russia seperately. Nobody else has built the hardware
Researches on Lunar Crates (Score:2)
Crates, eh? Jesus; did these SpaceDaily people use Babelfish is something?
Re:Researches on Lunar Crates (Score:2)
Yeah, I think they used Babelfish or something, maybe a junior translator (sorry, you're on the hook for your grammar and word choice when you're criticizing others').
For instance:
where they meant:
This lays the foundation for further estimating the content, distribution and
... taking an incremental approach. (Score:2)
Well, of course they're taking an incremental approach! What did you expect? A light speed trip to Alpha Centauri, then the moon landing?
Perhaps I'm being too literal. :-)
zForeign Aid (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Foreign Aid (Score:3)
In a way it's kind of like how to spend aid in a country suffering from famine. Spending all of the money on food and water is a short term solution, but building a robust irrigation system will fix the pro
Re:Foreign Aid (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Foreign Aid (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Foreign Aid (Score:2)
To Americans and others (Score:3, Interesting)
Whos knows maybe moonbases will become a relatity in my lifetime.
Re:To Americans and others (Score:2)
Re:To Americans and others (Score:2)
Re:To Americans and others (Score:4, Interesting)
My in-laws live in Bejing at the moment, and the propaganda there is interesting... There's only one channel in English, and it's a government channel telling how wonderful China is.
The Chinese government blocks CNN, MSNBC, and most all western media. All news comes through the government sponsered tv channels, or through the "rumor train". We often know about things going on over there before they do.
When we were at war in Iraq there was nothing on but sad music and pictures of wounded children...
In China, you are told what school you will go to, what you will study, where you will live, and until recently, where you will work. You need a permit to be able to move to a city, and many families(like husbands and wives families) are split up because they can't both get permits to live in the same place.
Throughout school they have a class they call Propaganda(well, not really, but an equivelant word in Chinese) that is just that, all about how bad the west is and how wonderful China is. How Chinese medicine is so wonderful and western medicine is bad(My inlaws masters biology students don't really think that viruses and germs cause disease, and that if they opened their windows to let the Chi flow and excercised, they wouldn't get SARS. Most of them contuined to eat from a common bowl because it's the chinese way, and their strong chi would keep them from getting sick...)
China is building the worlds largest ferris wheel and going to the moon purely to make themselves look good. If they can set up a moon base it won't be primarily to make money, though I'm sure they wouldn't mind that. It would be much like our space race, to prove that we're better then them.
Re:To Americans and others (Score:3, Insightful)
Your world view is pretty fucked up. On our TV we had joyous orchestral, almost movie like soundtracks, with fancy computer graphics overlaid over a sanitized view of the war.
And you slate their "propaganda"?
Throughout school they have a class they call Propaganda(well, not really, but an equivelant word in Chinese) that is just that, all about how bad the west is and how wonderful China is.
And you wer
new space race please (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:new space race please (Score:2)
It worked well during the cold war, because there was the whole "capitalism must win over communism before communists take over the world" mind
Re:new space race please (Score:2)
True enough but they're jumping on the capitalism bandwagon so fast, it won't be long until they are a de facto capitalist state. Elections will
Re:new space race please (Score:2)
Re:new space race please (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a big problem, far worse than laziness. And it must be addressed. It cannot be ignored. Yet we're still in denial.
Just look at how congress reacted to the report given to NASA. Look at the rhetoric we use when discussing these problems. We understand this, but have a hard time admitting it to oursel
Re:new space race please (Score:3, Insightful)
Hopefully this'll spark more action in other parts of the world, like the European Community, India, Brasil. You laugh at India and Brasil? Look at it this way... the more these countries start getting into complex hi-tech projects on their own, the more they will mat
Go China :) For humanity! (Score:3, Interesting)
>>program, and is taking an incremental approach
Well, at least someone is. Also incase anyone hasnt noticed
Exciting stuff!
Re:Go China :) For humanity! (Score:2)
Overall, yes, they are second behind the US. But per capita GDP, [photius.com] they're down around 129th. Just below Albania and Ukraine, and just above Paraguay. I think they still have some work to do.
Oh oh... (Score:2)
Rare metals? (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't know how easy it would be to get a pack mule into a space suit though.
Re:Rare metals? (Score:4, Informative)
Essentially zip. Even if there were huge deposits of anything interesting (there are some higher levels of rare earth elements in the lunar soil), the costs of getting there and back far exceed the costs of mining reserves back on Earth.
Some people have postulated that since the Moon has no atmosphere, the very fine regolith has been soaking up the solar wind for billenia. Part of the solar wind is helium 3 (light(er) helium) which is essentially absent from Earth. He3 *might* be useful in the future if we ever get fusion working and commercially viable.
Best wishes,
Mike.
Who Owns the Mineral Right? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Who Owns the Mineral Right? (Score:2)
how ironic, and foretelling. (Score:3, Interesting)
guess we oughta get used to the idea that only china has something left to prove politically in space, and the resources to do it.
combine their drive, resources, and that they learned from the US situation and are sticking with proven technology specifically designed for the mission at hand -- and China will either meltdown or raise the bar outside our atmosphere.
it's gonna be a different world when you have to learn Mandarin to vacation on the moon.
Re:how ironic, and foretelling. (Score:5, Interesting)
And now, the ship that will enable the Chinese to get to the Moon is named in her (mythical) honour... It isn't ironic - it's poetic.
And of course (Score:3, Insightful)
As usual... (Score:5, Insightful)
- China has other problems and moon is not a priority
- Been there done that they are 30 years late
You have to know that China is not spending ALL the money on space travel. It's working on its own problems right now. It's a developping country but the thing is it's a hell of a developping country with almost a billion workers that are about to create the biggest market in the world.
You did that 30 years ago... ok. And what ?
What about doing REAL space and moon exploration instead of a big show off like the Appolo program was ?
China is planning actual exploitation of moon ressources within the next 50 years. They could really become prevalent in the future just because of the bargain they are doing today. Imagine if they manage to set up a full moon base.
They would become prevalent in energy, astronomy, vacuum manufacturing and space exploration. You should think about it and maybe the US government should try to spend less money on war and maybe a little more on space exploration...
Re:As usual... (Score:2, Insightful)
- China is the bastion of freedom and support for all its citizens (put the blinders on and ignore the civil rights abuses)
- They are the most advanced in space technology (minus the russian support and research and copies of russian tech)
You have to know that China is not spending ALL the money on space travel (but everytime a US develops a weapon, its all the US spends money on, not research for AIDS and cancer).
So I guess China doesn't need foreign aid anymore (Score:4, Insightful)
I support this product and/or service (Score:2)
I'll take the #12, the MOON Goo Gai Pan. Hee hee!
As Tom Cullen said in The Stand, "M-O-0-N. That spell's Chinese! Laws, yes!"
Hey, can you achieve proper Feng Shui in a cratered environment?
Just as long as the Indians don't beat them to it. Man, then even the vacuum would smell like curry.
This just in from Mao... (Score:2)
-psy
NASA Goals (Score:3, Funny)
China vs. US (Score:5, Funny)
1) build spaceships
2) launch humans
3) launch humans to Mars
US:
1) build space ships
2) hire venture capitalists
3) hire managers to impress venture capitalists
4) hire managers to impress managers
5) rebuild space ship different way to impress managers
6) file chapter 11 and close
Re:Odd... (Score:5, Informative)
Finders keepers... (Score:4, Insightful)
As far as I'm concerned the Chinese are at the same level now. Everyone's whining about how we've already been to the moon, but blame NASA for not going anywhere beyond that. It's their damn fault.
Re:Odd... (Score:5, Interesting)
While it is true that humanity as a whole has previous experince in landing on another rock in the solar system, the chinese do not. And it's more sensible to do it the first time in relative proximity to earth, where communications are nearly instantinious and home is just four days away, rahter than to go to Mars and hope everything works out just like they did in the simulator.
AFAIK, the chinese are plannin g a spacestation as well as a manned moonmission, and I got a hunch they won't stop there. So far all of their achivments can be dismissed as something other nations already has done - but as far as I can understand the mindset that drives the chinese spaceprograme (which appears to be close to the mindset that drove the early soviet and US spaceprogrames), they 'need' to do something spectaluar that no-one has done before.
A permanet moonbase might suit this criteria, or a manned mission to Mars... but they need to learn to walk before they can run.
Re:Odd... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm all for space programs, but a country like China should reconsider its priorities.
Re:Odd... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Odd... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Odd... (Score:2)
By the way, I'd say the same thing to those who think USA should lower their funding for NASA to solve violence on the street, mass murders in school clases, etc.
I think it's a problem that are better solved tha
Re:Odd... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Odd... (Score:2)
Re:Odd... (Score:5, Interesting)
That's what the Moon is - a very large space station in orbit 240,000 miles above the Earth.
It receives unlimited, very strong, solar energy, and provides plenty of raw materials. It also provides unlimited, very high quality industrial vacuum, and is an ideal site for optical and radio astronomy. It is also a fine launch pad for interplanetary traffic, since it has only 1/6 the gravity of Earth and no atmosphere.
Granted, it may be lacking in certain resources, but the recent discovery of 100,000,000 tons of water near the lunar South Pole certainly casts things in a new light. A sustainable colony is most likely feasible.
If we weren't mired down in massive red tape and environmental regulations, perhaps private enterprise here in the West could take a shot at competing with the Chinese government. I'm pretty sure space flight is about to become commercially viable, especially if there is a breakthrough or two. Scramjets and detonation based engines are two possibilities.
We also need a non-crewed heavy lifter that'll take the "freight into space cheap" crown. Then big lunar and interplanetary ships can be constructed in orbit.
Safe, high performance power (fission, fusion or antimatter) needs to become a reality soon for interplanetary travel. That will be the revolution in the 21st century to rival flight in the 20th.
We'll see if we can get more than a million people into space a year by 2100...well probably not me personally... ;-)
Re:Odd... (Score:2)
If looks like NASA found the easy way of accomplishing this goal - only send the 'essence' of each person into space. Kind of like how they send orange-juice into space as Tang.
NASA launches satellites, cremated remains [usatoday.com]
Re:Odd... (Score:2)
Cuz, that would really suck...the lack of tides alone would cause ecosystems to collapse.
On a side note, how would a space elevator from the moon work? Would it need to be much shorter (due to lower gravity), and be able to be built with existing materials? If this is the case, we could use it to launch spaceships from there!
Re:Odd... (Score:2)
That's easy! Make sure you don't cut the string!
Re:Odd... (Score:2)
The entire human nuclear arsonal, if strategically placed, could blow the moon into tiny little pieces (actually, one very powerful bomb could supposedly do this).
Most geologists think that this is true of the Earth as well - if we aim something between techtonic plates, they think we can send a shockwave to the core and blow the planet to chunks.
Perhaps you meant "the entire non-nuclear arsonal"?
Re:Odd... (Score:3, Informative)
No, he meant Nuclear arsenal. Those scientists with those theories are not taken seriously within the geologi
Shame about nuclear rockets... (Score:2)
The U.S. had a perfectly good functioning nuclear ramjet [merkle.com] and abandoned the project. There were also fission rocket engines [lascruces.com] built, quite powerful ones.
<sarcasm> I wonder why those projects got dropped.. ?</sarcasm>
Tho' I must admit, given the chance to work on something like that it would be hard to resist... :-)
Re:Odd... (Score:5, Funny)
That's no moon, it's a space station!
Well ok, it's a moon and a space station.
Re:Odd... (Score:2)
Sour grapes (Score:3, Insightful)
Going to Mars is a fine scientific aim, but if you read between the lines, their aims are also commercial - the moon is a definite target then...
Simon
Re:Sour grapes (Score:2)
China has also slaughtered millions of their own people through starvation, revolution, and ill reasoned war. They have fought ag
study the Moon with MODERN instruments (Score:5, Insightful)
The Moon has only been revisited twice since the 1960s, so there is much to learn with improved instruments. Especially since only eight locations have been sampled by US and Soviet expeditions. I dont care whether NASA, the ESA or China does this, as long as somebody does.
Re:Odd... (Score:3, Interesting)
i'd say that with-in 2 years that china will be much farther ahead of the USA in space that it will be silly.
Hell if they figure out a way to launch sattelites cheaper than NASA and the EU maybe it will be a way to finally get the powers that be off their asses and actually do something in regards to the space program.
Go China! make the dirt cheap access to space a reality, just like they did with computers.
(If your moherboard,processor and ram w
Re:Profit (Score:4, Interesting)
"Congratulations China, no need for aid right?"
Re:incremental? (Score:2)
For an organisation with a decent amount of time, money and engineering resources, flying to the moon
Re:incremental? (Score:2)
It's a little more complex, the Soviet Union had two manned missions running simultaneously. There
What the hell is your major malfunction? (Score:5, Informative)
1. It's incremental because they have a series of goals, each more complex than the previous one, and aim to acheive each one in order.
Really, is that so hard to understand? Has the meaning of the word "incremental" changed or something?
2. The goals aren't only acheivable, they've already been acheived once.
NASA did all this back in the 60's, in the same order - lunar orbits, lunar docking, then finally lunar landing and return. If NASA can do it, then so can the Chinese. All it takes is manpower and resources, which won't be an issue for China.
Remember, JFK announced the US's intention to go to the moon and back just a few years after the first American was launched into space. At the time of that announcement, the US had as much experience, perhaps less, of space exploration, rocketry, etc than China has today. Again, if the US could make such a bold claim then and deliver then there is no reason to dismiss China's claim so flippantly.
Is China in a position to put men on the moon today? No. Will China be in a position to put men on the moon 10 years from now? You better believe it.
Space exploration is all about small steps of steady progress and giant leaps of vision. If Neil Armstrong could recognise that standing on the surface of the moon 34 years ago then why can't you today?
Re:incremental? (Score:2)
T
Re:incremental? (Score:2)
Development of a three-stage version of the UR-500 was authorised in the decree of 3 August 1964. During development, in comparison to the original polyblock design, the engine performances were improved by about 5 seconds; the mass of the first stage increased by 71 tonnes; the second stage by 30 tonnes; and the third stage by 27 tonnes (more than doubled). These changes brought the low earth orbit payload from 12,000 kg up to almost 20,000 kg. The
Re:Prior art? (Score:2)
Re:Prior art? (Score:3, Insightful)
It is not the fact that the Chinese are using a tested method, it is the fact that the reporters are acting as if this is the first time anybody did it this way. I missed the portion of the
Re:Prior art? (Score:2)
Because there aren't any more 'wheels' left - NASA left them to rust in Texas and Florida. If the Chinese want to go to the Moon, they have to reinvent the technology first.
Best wishes,
Mike.
Re:Prior art? (Score:4, Insightful)
No one is doubting the phenomonal rate of progress made during the sixties and early seventies by the US and USSR. Like Newton, the Chinese seem to have their sights set further than their predecessors and intend on exploiting space more directly than using it as a research platform.
Re:NASA should institute some DRM scheme (Score:2)
Re:Prior art? (Score:2)
Re:Prior art? (Score:2, Flamebait)
Well, yea, that was the stated purpose. I suppose you would go against the flow of the Slashbots and join me in wishing Bechtel and Haliburton had Moon mining contracts by 1975?
Re:Prior art? (Score:2, Flamebait)
Plenty was accomplished in addition to geology.
Certainly I would be happier if more commercial uses had been included, but watch out for the mods here! As soon as a non-Communist wants to use a resource it becomes a bad
Re:A "LASER" perhaps? (Score:2)
Stop being so myopic and xenophobic... (Score:5, Interesting)
Why spend billions fighting a war? If Saddam was the problem then why not just put a $1 billion bounty on his head? It would have been cheaper and it probably would have been more successful.
Does the US really need tens of thousands of nuclear warheads? Wouldn't a few hundred be enough? Just how many $1.3 billion B-2 stealth bombers does the USAF need? They're going to get 20, but the original order was 144... Even so, wouldn't that money be better spent elsewhere?
See? I can construct a similar myopic argument detailing why money shouldn't be spent on grand endeavours for just about any nation in the world. Just because you think that there's no benefit to the average Chinese citizen in this lunar programme that doesn't make it so. If I recall correctly, people made the same argument about the NASA Apollo missions, and the scientific acheivements of Apollo and the success of its commercial spin-offs are still benefitting us today.
Something tells me if this new endeavour came from NASA rather than China you'd be the first to jump on the "about time too" bandwagon. Stop being so damn xenophobic.
I completely agree with you. (Score:2)
I almost completely agree with you. I was writing this earlier comment while you were writing yours: Did that: History surrounding U.S. war with Iraq, #7453105 [slashdot.org].
Back to the original topic: The Chinese have extremely severe social problems, and space science is a self-destructive cover-up.
You said, "... people made the same argument about the NASA Apollo missions, and the scientific acheivements of Apollo and the success of its commercial spin-offs are still benefitting us today."
What achievement
These achievements (Score:2)
Re:These achievements (Score:2)
CAT scanning and MRIs not connected with space. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Stop being so myopic and xenophobic... (Score:2)
Begin counter argument
1) The Europeans can afford the luxury of a welfare state, because they haven't had to defend themselves for the last 50 years. How much more of their GDP would have gone into the armed forces if the US had pulled out of NATO when the Russians had 5,000 tanks and 3,000,000 troops in Eastern Europe?
What? Europeans made a collective, democratic decision to found a welfare state after the second world war. In the USA, being left of centre is bait to all the McCarthyists out there.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Stop being so myopic and xenophobic... (Score:2)
2. Nice how you label me anti-American. The very point I was making was that it is easy to dismiss the goals of any nation by drawing up a checklist of its shortcomings. That you see a list of things the US less than excels at as anti-American is ironic - whatever happened to freedom of speech?
(And, just to giv
Re:Stop being so myopic and xenophobic... (Score:2)
How much more of their GDP would have gone into the armed forces if the US had pulled out of NATO when the Russians had 5,000 tanks and 3,000,000 troops in Eastern Europe?
Given Europe's (Britain most honorably excluded) performance in WWII, I think none would have, and then there would have been a series of Soviet satellite states.
We don't need a welfare state.
causes the poverty it's intended to prevent.
Re:Stop being so myopic and xenophobic... (Score:3, Insightful)
The scientists propigating the advances, the medical stu
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Stop being so myopic and xenophobic... (Score:2, Flamebait)
Ah, yet another xenophobe. At least this one has the sense to hide his racism and ignorance (or is that lacks the courage of his convictions) and posts as an AC.
1. I'm not chinese, never have been, don't plan to be, and I have no connection with China whatsoever. I do, admittedly, have a love of chinese food but I can also say the same for italian, indian and japanese cuisine. If
A peasant is a person with almost no education. (Score:2)
"There is a problem with 80% of the chinese being peasants?"
A peasant is a person with almost no education. Yes, there is a problem with that. I see the point you are making, but it doesn't apply here.
Did that: History surrounding U.S. war with Iraq (Score:2)
From the parent post: "Look at your own country first."
Did that: History surrounding the U.S. war with Iraq: Four short stories [hevanet.com]. Here's a quote: "The least sophisticated way of relating to other people is killing them."
Also, I don't think it is a good practice to call someone an "idiot" because you disagree with them.
Re:They left out the next steps (Score:2)
Re:Decremental Approach (Score:2)