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Science Technology

A Fiber-Optic Cable To Inner Space 93

Posted by timothy from the send-down-more-divers dept.
tetraconz writes "The University of Washington has been working on a vast 3000km undersea network to research the ocean floor off the West Coast. From the executive summary: (PDF) "The goal of NEPTUNE is to establish a coherent system of high-speed, submarine communication-control links using fiber-optic cables to connect remote, interactive experimental sites with land-based research laboratories and classrooms." This is an important project to explore the last unknown region of the Earth: the ocean. Check out the project homepage."
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A Fiber-Optic Cable To Inner Space More

A Fiber-Optic Cable To Inner Space

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  • just doesn't have the same ring to it.

  • Security, security (Score:5, Funny)

    by jabbadabbadoo ( 599681 ) on Monday October 27, 2003 @06:03AM (#7317819)
    Fine. And for security we have Blowfish.

  • Nemo? (Score:4, Funny)

    by davejenkins ( 99111 ) <slashdot@davejenki[ ]com ['ns.' in gap]> on Monday October 27, 2003 @06:04AM (#7317822) Homepage
    That seems like a lot of money just to find one little clown fish...
  • Last I checked, you couldn't do drugs with fiber optic. It's too hard to inhale.

  • It's about time (Score:2, Insightful)

    by distro stu ( 719158 )
    This project is absolutely fantastic. We're finally beginning to systematically explore the ocean and the ocean floor. The implications here for technology, environmental studies, education, and research in all sorts of different arenas is staggering. I can't wait to see some of the results once this is up and running. Jacques Cousteau wouldve loved this.

    • Re:It's about time (Score:5, Informative)

      by LarsWestergren ( 9033 ) on Monday October 27, 2003 @06:23AM (#7317862) Homepage Journal
      This project is absolutely fantastic. We're finally beginning to systematically explore the ocean and the ocean floor. The implications here for technology, environmental studies, education, and research in all sorts of different arenas is staggering.

      Agreed. It used to be said we knew more about outer space than the oceans, but finally this is starting to change. If you want to learn more, a good place to start is the amazing BBC documentary [amazon.co.uk]
      Blue Planet. It contains some of the most beautiful images I have ever seen.

    • Re:It's about time (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Davak ( 526912 ) on Monday October 27, 2003 @06:54AM (#7317916) Homepage
      Jacques Cousteau wouldve loved this.

      Really? I always thought of Cousteau as someone who loved to be underwater making discoveries. I don't picture him as somebody sitting behind a computer screen doing work.

      Thinking of him that way makes him less of a hero... and, err, too much like me.

      Davak
      • Really? I always thought of Cousteau as someone who loved to be underwater making discoveries. I don't picture him as somebody sitting behind a computer screen doing work.

        I bet Stephen Hawking loves this!
  • this means that some fish have more bandwidth that me.... damn

    • Re:bandwidth... (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Unfortunately, for them, it's like that Twilight Zone episode with Burgess Meridith. For, you see, fish can't type. Let alone type with one hand while "manipulating hardware" with the other.

  • Leave the ocean alone? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The ocean is one of the few places in the world we humans haven't terrorised yet. I'd hate to see it go down the tube (so to speak) for corporate interests.

    If humans learnt to leave things alone, the world would be a better place.

    • Re:Leave the ocean alone? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by CFBMoo1 ( 157453 ) on Monday October 27, 2003 @07:02AM (#7317925) Homepage
      Oooooh we've terrorized the ocean good.. Whaling industry, fishing industry, oil spills, sewage wastes from the main land running from our rivers and streams. Yes there's plenty of things we've done to hurt the ocean environment w/out even going there.

      I wouldn't be suprised if there was radioactive waste at the bottom of the sea somewhere. And this is off the top of my head w/out even looking.

      Ever hear of E-waste? The electronics other nations get because they're outdated and only valuable for the minerals in their parts? Imagine all the polution thats been reported from it getting in to the water supply over there. Now realize that their water flows to the ocean eventually. More terrorization of the worlds oceans. All this probebly isn't even the tip of the ice berg so to speak.

      • Off the wheel, we have several sunken nuclear submarines, perhaps a dozen or so thermonuclear warheads and maybe even a hundred regular nukes.
      • I wouldn't be suprised if there was radioactive waste at the bottom of the sea somewhere. And this is off the top of my head w/out even looking.

        Here [google.com] you go.

        I also remember reading something about a US bomber crashing in the ocean which prompted other nations to ban the flying of nuclear armed planes over their land. Ahhh, found this [nuclearfiles.org] through google too. A very interesting read.

        And these are just the accidents. There's also the intentional stuff (testing) to also take into account.
      • > Ever hear of E-waste?

        Sure, it's called leak current and it means that electrons escape circuits and start littering the environment. Good that fiber optics cable don't carry electrons. Now, photon-waste would be possible, if some terrorists or barracudas cut through the fiber cables... Uh oh!
      • Dont forget Mr Chirac's nuclear tests... Damb French... Wounder if we have any new breeds of fish arround there now.
    • What's the problem?
      Humans will get themselves extinct, then nature can take its course. Then the sun will fry the earth. And finally the universe will collapse or die a cold death. So much the better.

  • obligatory stingray reference (Score:3, Funny)

    by maharg ( 182366 ) on Monday October 27, 2003 @06:32AM (#7317877) Homepage Journal
    I believe the implementation will bear a superficial resemblance to this [bbc.co.uk]

  • Sensible? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pubjames ( 468013 ) on Monday October 27, 2003 @06:35AM (#7317885)
    This looks like an awfully expensive project.

    Although I love technology, I always prefer to take a sceptical view when considering it's application. I often ask my clients, "if you didn't have a computer/network/whatever, how would you do this?" I find computer technology often blurs people's clarity of thinking, and if you say "how would you do this without a computer?" they see more clearly exactly what the issues are.

    It may be that this is a very sensible project. However, it may also be that the cost of setting up this network might be better deployed focusing on the actual experiments themselves. My own view is that when it comes to the biological sciences, there's nothing quite like physically being there, so I'd prefer to see money spent on making dive trips easier/safer/less expensive.

    Having said all of that, often this type of big project actually has multiple objectives. I can see lots of military uses for a big undersea network.

    • Re:Sensible? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Davak ( 526912 ) on Monday October 27, 2003 @06:46AM (#7317905) Homepage
      This is why we have the internet: Networked, remote controllable/accessable research.

      This project provides multiple layers of input and output--all that can be controlled remotely. This is a science experiment/environment that can be explored and shared by multiple groups of people from anywhere in the world.

      Even the radio telescopes are not this advanced; however, it's a similar idea. Groups of sensor inputs that can be fed to groups of people elsewhere.

      Will it be expensive? Yes.
      However, the amount of data that will be received with minimal impact to the environment will be staggering. Once the system is down and reaches a steady state, it can be repeatly used to gain information--without having to interrupt that system again and again.

      Bravo to the Neptune project... this is the way research should be done.

      • Re:Sensible? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by pubjames ( 468013 ) on Monday October 27, 2003 @07:05AM (#7317928)
        This is why we have the internet: Networked, remote controllable/accessable research.

        Except that isn't the reality, is it? The vast majority of computers attached to the internet actually have a person sitting at them. Those that don't (servers etc) still are within easy access of people - I doubt anyone who maintains a web server would like it stuck at the bottom of the ocean and unaccessible when the hard disc drive decides to start playing up.

        This is exactly the point I am trying to make - think practical! Is data from the ocean in real time actually much more useful that non-realtime data? i.e. if I have a data-collection experiment attached to a buoy and leave it there for three months then collect it, is that data actually much less useful that data collected in real time? I doubt it. And yet look at the cost implications of collecting the real time data.

        Will it be expensive? Yes.
        However, the amount of data that will be received with minimal impact to the environment will be staggering.

        Two random things that come to mind - the NASA "space pen" and the Russians pencil (yes I know about Snopes blah blah) and - "never underestimate the bandwidth of a pick-up truck travelling cross-country with a trunk full of magnetic tapes". Applies to a boat too.

        • Re:Sensible? (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Davak ( 526912 )
          Is data from the ocean in real time actually much more useful that non-realtime data?

          Yes. The article even mentions events such as underwater volcanoesn. Others could include the migration of plant/animal species and manipulation of data gathering devices such as cameras.

          If you are watching fish mate, you would like your camera to follow the action... for example. (I guess this is different that watching checkmate, cause then you would be a total geek just watching chess. (g))

          Anyway... we don't drop
          • > If you are watching fish mate [...]

            > you would be a total geek just watching chess

            Yes, of course, because watching fish "fuck" is a much more normal activity than chess. ;)
          • If you are watching fish mate, you would like your camera to follow the action... for example.

            Yes, imagine the vast potential for undersea porn! I can't wait until I can download "Chicks Who Dig Blowfish" from some Japanese icthoporn site...
        • I doubt anyone who maintains a web server would like it stuck at the bottom of the ocean and unaccessible when the hard disc drive decides to start playing up.

          Sorry, I missed this point.

          I doubt they will have servers stuck at the bottom of the ocean floor. The servers will be sitting high and dry in people-friendly areas. Why would the servers need to be anywhere near the ocean floor?

          Hell, I know here at work we try to keep the servers even away from people as much as possible. The servers do not nee

        • Re:Sensible? (Score:3, Informative)

          by pphrdza ( 635063 )
          I'm reminded of a technique developed in the 60's/70's for gathering cells from lungs, without surgery, to determine if there was cancer (live cells were "scraped" using a tiny brush). The patients didn't have to go through the expense and inherent dangers of surgery to get an accurate diagnosis. But the pathology labs had never actually seen live lung cancer cells before, and initially didn't recognize them as cancerous.

          How much will be found in "real time" that will change how we think about and appro

          • Cell cultures?
            Lungs?

            As a pulmonary doc and as a researcher, this analogy is hitting close to home. Bravo.

            To add more support for your point, even today data obtained using cell culture must be duplicated by other methods before we use it for human use. Cell cultures are very, very valuable tools for research and allow us to test many questions very quickly; however, cell cultures and the actual human body itself are two very different things.

            Cell cultures would be similar to a stimulated salt water env
    • Check out what NOAA is doing [noaa.gov].

      The key thing is to monitor when things go active on the Juan de Fuca Ridge; this is a mid-ocean ridge spreading center. These spreading centers are a component of plate tectonics. It would also be nice to study the precursors to the advent of volcanic and tectonic (e.g., faulting) events.

      Ironically (considering your comment about military applications), NOAA-PMEL first started monitoring the JDF Ridge using data from the US military's SOSUS arrays. SOSUS is the Navy's underwa

    • Re:Sensible? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Obfuscant ( 592200 )
      However, it may also be that the cost of setting up this network might be better deployed focusing on the actual experiments themselves.

      They have been focusing on the experiments for years. The new part of this project is NOT the measurements, it is the connectivity and being able to get large volumes of data back.

      It costs a great deal of money to send out ships to tow side-scan sonars and temperature/salinity sensors. It costs a great deal of money to put out current sensors. This means that sampling is d

  • Big Problem - Security (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Davak ( 526912 ) on Monday October 27, 2003 @06:52AM (#7317912) Homepage
    You think security is troublesome on your own systems... imagine being in control of security on this project.

    You are doing 6 months of observation waiting for an undersea volcano to erupt... and the day it does, some undergrad hacker gets into the system and decides to write out I LOVE BETTY with a mini robot sub on the ocean floor.

    I am kidding,,, but this is a system that most likely multiple groups of scientists will be able to access. Keeping that type of open system secure will be difficult... especially if they are using the internet to accept data and send commands.

    Davak

  • Strange priorities (Score:3, Interesting)

    by infestedsenses ( 699259 ) on Monday October 27, 2003 @07:00AM (#7317923) Homepage
    I find it interesting that we first choose to go to the moon, and then discover the oceans of or own planet.
    I'm sure there is still much in store for us to learn from our own planet, and I feel we've neglected that for too long.
  • Hmmm, I think they just want better mobile phone reception inside their mini subs.

  • This sounds like a fascinating project, however, the implementation will ultimately determine how well the money was spent. Granted, network cable under the sea will probably be very durable, but what about the equipment itself? If they're spending tons of money on fiber-optic cable to install under the ocean, and then attaching an EZ-Fun Cam (Crap Edition) to the other ends of said cables, where were the priorities?

    Maybe they're in cahoots with X-10, and the new pop-under-sea advertisement!

    chewtoy11

  • Alright, I guess I have new ammunition for Qwest the next time I call them. They're still telling I'm too far to get DSL!

    Now I can't even say that my dialup is "slower than a turtle!" argh!
  • Okay I understand the importance and value of deep-sea exploration, but how about fiber to my curb first?
  • The University of Victoria [www.uvic.ca] is heading the Canadian half of this project. More information can be found at the Neptune Canada [netptunecanada.com] site.
  • It's important to be able to access high-bandwith pron while in your underwater base. Unless you're Troy McClure, in which case all you have to do is look out the window.
  • Great, one more UW website for me to worry about that doesnt adhere to any usability or visual standards.............

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