Jocks v. Nerds: Detecting Gene-Dopers 205
kevinvee writes "The World Anti-Doping Agency will soon put into place gene doping tests to detect athletes using gene therapy. Perhaps the most important part to recognize is that Congress delegates have said that gene doping is a 'clear and present danger.' Professor Geoff Goldspink mentions this of gene therapy: 'We can put genes into mice and create Arnold Schwarzenegger mice.' So, be sure to watch next year's elections for furry white mice."
Arnold Schwarzenegger mice (Score:5, Funny)
Does this mean that instead of running around the maze, they suddenly start running for governor?
Re:Arnold Schwarzenegger mice (Score:2)
Re:Arnold Schwarzenegger mice (Score:2)
Re:Arnold Schwarzenegger mice (Score:1)
Re:Arnold Schwarzenegger mice (Score:1)
Re:Arnold Schwarzenegger mice (Score:1)
Re:Arnold Schwarzenegger mice (Score:1)
Re:A bit of a high-pitched debate there.. (Score:2)
Arnold would certainly be Mighty Mouse.
Or maybe The Mouse That Roared.
that is like my graphic designer (Score:1, Offtopic)
AAAAERRRRrrrrrrrrrgggggghghhghghghghghghghg hghghghghghghghg
what were you saying about mice and men?
Re:that is like my graphic designer (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:that is like my graphic designer (Score:1, Troll)
Re:that is like my graphic designer (Score:1)
you mean (Score:2)
Re:you mean (Score:2)
that's a good point. you can take the joker out of hialeah [hialeah.fl.us], but you cant . [216.239.37.104]
any heads from miami know exactly what i mean.
Re:you mean (corrected) (Score:2)
that's a good point. you can take the joker out of hialeah [hialeah.fl.us], but you cant take the hialeah out of the joker [216.239.37.104].
any heads from miami know exactly what i mean.
Don't Forget! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Don't Forget! (Score:2)
Re:Don't Forget! (Score:2)
The problem is that some Algorenon voters are too stupid to correctly use a ballot.
Oh wait, you said Algernon [danielkeyesauthor.com]. Never mind...
Re:Don't Forget! (Score:2)
Better Things for Better Living, Through Chat-Shows!
A bit OT: Ahnold (Score:1)
Gene Therapy for intelligence (Score:3, Interesting)
So, are you saying the incumbent will be getting a little NR2B gene therapy? (For those Slashdotters who are not neuroscientists, NR2B keeps the NMDA receptor in nervous tissues from desensitizing, apparently making learning in mice easier).
Where can I get some dope genes? (Score:5, Funny)
So, I can go from an 80 pound weakling to a 100 pound beefcake in the time it takes me to compile Gentoo on my P2-300?
Those jocks from highschool are going to be sorry they shoved me in my locker...
everyday...
twice.
Re:Where can I get some dope genes? (Score:1)
Re:Where can I get some dope genes? (Score:3, Insightful)
The average healthy male is 45% muscle mass, so for the 80 pound weekling, it'd be 80 + 80*.45*.25 for a whopping 89 lbs . . . I don't think the jocks are that worried
Re:Where can I get some dope genes? (Score:2)
If you consider yourself "an 80 pound weakling" [BTW, is a "weekling" "someone who only lasts a week"?] start eating more beef and chicken and start lifting some weights dude.
Then again, if you're only 13 years old, you COULD just wait for puberty.
Like the X-Men movie (Score:5, Funny)
Descendants of mutants? (Score:3, Interesting)
And California shudders... (Score:1)
>> Schwarzenegger (news - web sites) mice. If it can be >> done on mice it can be done on humans," said
>> Goldspink.
Almost There (Score:2)
Almost there, huh. The list of things that are almost there (dirt cheap solar cells, 64-bit Windows operating systems, Segways replacing all other forms of personal transport, television sets that you unroll and hang on your wall, the RIAA actually winning a case in court) is endless -- and is likely to remain that way since the axiom that the first 90% of the work takes 90% of the time and effort, an
Re:Almost There (Score:2)
You're really putting in a lot of time and effort into things, aren't you? Forget the usual 110%, we're talking 180% bay-bee!!!
Re:Almost There (Score:2)
is it really cheating, though? (Score:3, Insightful)
If there was a performance-enhancing chemical that was completely safe, I say it is fair, because its use does not involve serious risk. That said, I think the IOC doesn't see it that way.
So my question is, is gene therapy dangerous? If it is, then it probably should be banned. But if not, then why not allow it? At some point, doesn't it seem kind of arbitrary which things are allowed and which are not?
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:3, Interesting)
Is it dangerous? Well, for me it's only dangerous in the negative sense, if I don't get it I could die.
It kinda focuses my attention on the issue.
I could, of course, be dead before any possible real therapy becomes available. This doesn't make me feel better about possible congressional roadblocks to its development, oddly enough.
As for its use in sports the issue is handled
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:1)
You were aware that the Congress of the United States and the International Olympic Committee Medical Congress are two different things, right?
The congress mentioned in this article is composed of doctors that make medical policy for the olympics. They have nothing to do with development of treatments for Cystic Fibrosis.
If I may say so, it seems a lot of people here missed that--I don't mean
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:1)
You may be unaware, because it is not quite so pressing an issue to you, that members of Congress, big Cee, are already making uneasy noises about all of this as well and it was that to which I refered when I said congress.
I handled the sporting issue quite seperately.
KFG
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:1)
I had heard a lot of noise about Congress "investigating" deaths and injuries that occured during clinical trials a few years ago, but I wasn't aware that anyting had come of it.
What I recall was mostly a demand that trials be as safe as possible, which kinda boils down to business as usual.
Noone runs trials where they expect to kill they people they treat, after all. It's expensive to conduct these trials, and if there ar
Some info (Score:3, Informative)
For the non-medical, non-bio-science geeks, Here's some info [nih.gov] courtesy of the NIH. Much like gen
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:1)
After all, what is more impressive, someone who works harder than anyone else on the team and is the secound best player or the n
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:1)
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:1)
>competition I can think of involves a lot of >practiced skill -- the type of thing that will >improve the over-all posture and
>the kinetics of the athelete.
True. But some people are going to have the natural inborn talen towards those skills and some won't..With the added gene therapy, people who don't genetically have the talents can now have them..Perhaps even enhanced. My first post may have been a bit extreme as far as the number one player in his natural state (w
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:2)
Why isn't it fair? Is it any more fair that they have to spend 60 hours a week in the gym/practicing? Really, this is basically just like an improvement in equipment, in nutrition, or in training methods. Gene therapy will not replace hard work, it will simply make that hard work more productive. If everyone does it, the bar is simply
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:2)
I'm not going to address the dog issue except to
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:1)
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:2)
You underrate improvements in nutrition and training methods, not to mention equipment (if nothing else, most sports at least include shoes as equipment, and there have been tremendous advances in shoe materials). How many records stand for more than a decade or two? Have a look at some swimming records [usa-swimming.org]. I see no one in the top 25 of t
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:2)
But then the question is, what is "modified?" Is it a modification to use a measurement device to non-invasively select the
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:3, Insightful)
All of which is, to be sure, absolute nonsense.
The faster we accept that sports is not a measure of hum
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:2)
These things all have side effects. The drugs all have side effects. Even blood doping (increasing your red blood cell count to improve stamina) will kill you occasionally (stroke). Genetic doping will carry the same risks. Look at that kid who died undergoing Gene therapy
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:2)
It all boils down to doing things that religious persons consider to be the things only "God" can do. It really frightens these people that maybe "God" doesn't exist or doesn't exist in the capacity that that know it to be.
Religious protesters trying to ban in vitro fertilization used
Re:is it really cheating, though? (Score:2)
What I think is the problem right now is that there's just this useless race between doctors/scientist finding new dopes, and then other doctors
Brain/Pinky 2004 (the NARF campaign) (Score:2)
Pinky: I think so, Brain, but how are we going to feed the elephant? ZORT!
Re:Brain/Pinky 2004 (the NARF campaign) (Score:2)
Do you think they can beat Stuart Little in a general election?
Re:Brain/Pinky 2004 (the NARF campaign) (Score:1)
This just goes too far (Score:1)
Re:This just goes too far (Score:2)
> bash-2.05a$ fortune
> bash: fortune: command not found
Heh, apparently one of fortune's cookies reads:
"Segmentation fault (core dumped)"
This, after debugging a faulty memory module that had been fucking everything up, appeared when I first logged in after removing the faulty module. Confused the fuck out of me. Damn you, fortune
This is stupid (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This is stupid (Score:1)
Re:This is stupid (Score:2)
-B
Re:This is stupid (Score:2)
Re:This is stupid (Score:2)
It doesn't quite work like that. Genes encode proteins, proteins interact to build cells, cells interact to build organs and so on. There isn't a "nose" gene that controls what your nose will look like, for example. Your nose is an emergent property of complex interactions between proteins. Similarly, Michael Johnson doesn't have a "speed gene" - his athletic ability is an
How? (Score:1)
Lots of viri get past virus scanners, do they expect gene scanner to do any better?
Re:How? (Score:1)
So you would indeed have to have the original genome to be able to notice a difference. I'm not sure, but some cells won't pick up the new genome and keep the old one because they are turned 'off' (i'm trying to make a connection between mos
Re:How? (Score:1)
WoooHooo!!! (Score:1)
What's the big deal? (Score:1)
Re:What's the big deal? (Score:1)
watch next year's elections for furry white mice (Score:2)
Re:watch next year's elections for furry white mic (Score:2)
Something wrong with the picture (Score:2)
Umm, Arnold is not a bodybuilder because of his genes. So we'll see athletes who inject Arnold genes, and wonder why it doesnt quite work, but their accents go really bad.
Re:Something wrong with the picture (Score:1)
No. (Score:2)
Of course, if it was just genes, we wouldn't have those puny legs.
Re:Something wrong with the picture (Score:1)
Overlords (Score:2)
So, I really don't see the point and for once i'm agreeing with congress. Then again I'm pretty sure that a bunch of scientists would probably be selecting against the jocks (imagine committing a form of genocide just because you weren't cool in High School). Okay, it probably won't go that far, but people are going to start to want to peer into the genetic code and see what's going on, and from that point some people are going to ressurect the eugeni
Furry white mice? (Score:1)
Arnold mice? (Score:3, Funny)
Amazing how far genetic insertion therapy has come. They can take an insider GOP mouse with no political experience and turn him into an overly-built "outsider" catch-phrase spewing governor?
What's wrong... (Score:1)
Bottom Line... (Score:1)
oh, get over it (Score:3, Insightful)
If people want to do that with their bodies, let them.
I think much of this fear of doping has to do with the fact that the olympic committee and sports clubs just don't want the futility of their "competitions" exposed. Right now, they tenuously maintain some illusion of participatory sports.
What difference should it make to anybody whether some olympic athlete pumps himself full of genes? Those people are so far removed from regular human beings that it is like watching a carnival side show anyway.
If you like sports, do it yourself. Compete, in a friendly way, with people you know and like. Anything else is not sports but voyeurism and soap opera.
Re:oh, get over it (Score:1)
So, if people want to do that to their bodies, let them. But dont let them compete against others and pretend that they're accomplishing anything.
Re:oh, get over it (Score:2)
And what are olympic athletes "accomplishing" right now?
The drama of sports is seeing what the human body can achieve through disciplined training and talent.
So, if someone's performance happens to be the product of a well-chosen mating, it's a "drama", but if it's the product of gene therapy, it's not? Sorry, I don't see it. I think the olympics are a carnival side show, with or without doping or gene therapy.
White mice (Score:4, Funny)
"'These creatures you call mice, you see, they are not quite as they appear. They are merely the protrusion into our dimension of vastly hyperintelligent pandimensional beings. The whole business with the chesse and the squeaking is just a front.'
The old man pause, and with a sympathetic frown continued. 'They've been experimenting on you, I'm afraid.'
Arthur thought about this for a seond, and then his face cleared.
'Ah no,' he said, 'I see the source of the misunderstanding now. No, look, you see what happened was that we used to do experiements on them.
Arthur's voice trailed off.
'Such subtlety...' said Slartibartfast, 'one has to admire it.'"
Re:White mice (Score:2)
I love coincidences.
Congress is SADLY mistaken. (Score:2)
A mouse could NEVER get elected as Governor.
Re:Congress is SADLY mistaken. (Score:2)
Re:Congress is SADLY mistaken. (Score:1)
<APPLAUSE>
Does this remind... (Score:1)
Gr@ve_Rose
Finally, a way to stop FPS cheaters (Score:1)
On a more serious note, who cares? Aren't professional sports about accomplishing the most with the genes you have? Some people will have the Arnold gene for muscle mass. It hardly seems fair to tell athletes with it that they'll just have to try harder and still fail.
That's not the congress everyone seems to think... (Score:1)
That's the IOC Medical Congress, not the Congress of the United States.
Go here [olympic.org] to learn more.
They don't pass laws or do anything else that is going to ever affect your personal life. All they do write rules about drugs and medical practice for the IOC
The Anti-Doping rules are their doing, and they make changes to them all the time.
By sheer coincidence... (Score:2)
Anti-doping made redundant (maybe) (Score:1)
I mean, tho whole point of anti-doping is to try and keep it healthy, yes? No-one's trying to ban Gatorade or anything...
Genetic Manipulation for Nerds (Score:1)
Re:Genetic Manipulation for Nerds (Score:2)
A complete and total falsehood.
C//
They do a very poor job catching drug users (Score:1)
As this article states, the cheaters are way ahead of the drug testers. Notice that they have a quote from the anonymous Olympic Committeeman. "If this were a basketball game, we'd be behind about 98 to 2." I have even
But... (Score:2)
There are already plenty of rats in politics, would a couple of mice really make a difference?
mice (Score:1)
I'm sure there's a Douglas Adams / HHGTTG reference here somewhere......
Escoutaire
Wait and see - the smart approach (Score:2)
I don't know why they don't take samples and keep them around for a few decades until tests have improved. It may take a decade or two, but it would be pretty certain that the cheaters get caught.
And what the hell is wrong with that? (Score:2)
Bleh. Seriously though, what the hell is wrong with just using Science to take a shortcut to perfection? Hell ain't sports any ways just an outlet and a cheap excuse for mankind's base desire to filter out the more physically fit genes and put them into one big "fuck me now" breeding pool?
Ah, thankfully we have Cocaine and other such wonderful drugs to kill those bas
Can we make people more intelligent yet? (Score:2)
I have only one thing to say! (Score:2)
They're Pinky and the Brain... (Score:2)