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The Internet Science Hardware Technology

Virtual Grid Supercomputer Goes (Partly) Online 257

Posted by timothy from the assembling-skynet dept.
hotsauce writes "The BBC is reporting that CERN (the guys who invented the Web) are working on a virtual supercomputer called the Grid. The Grid taps computing power from 12 countries to process data from a new supercollider that will simulate parts of the Big Bang. Phase One of the Grid just went online."
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Virtual Grid Supercomputer Goes (Partly) Online More

Virtual Grid Supercomputer Goes (Partly) Online

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  • Over-hyped (Score:4, Insightful)

    by TwistedSquare ( 650445 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @04:26AM (#7101909) Homepage
    I have heard from some people involved in the grid that it is a triumph of PR over substance, and that it is not going to be as well-used and participated in as the press releases suggest...

    • Re:Over-hyped (Score:5, Interesting)

      by grid geek ( 532440 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @04:56AM (#7102006) Homepage

      I'm doing my PhD on it at the moment. While there is a lot of hype there is a lot more substance to it than there was 2 years ago.

      For example we now have a single sign on system spread over more than a dozen countries (never easy when the gov wants to know why other countries scientists are using their machines.)

      Loads of work has been done on integrating data resources into the network, large scale systems configuration, data discover etc.

      As ever the BBC is a bit behind on the news - this is just a new releases of the software. And there had better be substance when LHC comes on line in 2007/8 as it will be generating 15, 000 TB of data to be stored a year and we need some way to deal with this.

    • Re:Over-hyped (Score:5, Interesting)

      by cperciva ( 102828 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @05:14AM (#7102039) Homepage
      I'd go further than that. I've heard the EU DataGrid described as a perfect example of how not to run a large software project.

      People working in half a dozen different languages (natural languages, that is, not programming languages!), a complete lack of chain-of-command, software being signed off on because a document detailing critical bugs had been produced (even though the critical bugs weren't fixed!), progress reports being sent back for revision because "they weren't positive enough"...

      Take the worst elements of decentralized open-source programming, combine them with the worst elements of government beaurocracy -- and then replace half of the programmers with physicists who have less programming experience than most second year CS majors -- and you'll get somewhere close to what I've been told about the EU Datagrid.

      Of course, this is all second-hand information. Maybe the person who was telling me all of this is just a burnt-out coder who would be unhappy with whatever project he was working on. But I doubt it.

      • Re:Over-hyped (Score:5, Interesting)

        by pubjames ( 468013 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @05:30AM (#7102074)
        People working in half a dozen different languages (natural languages, that is, not programming languages!),

        Welcome to reality. Reality for most of the rest of the world, that is.

        In Europe we speak lots of languages. That's the reality of the situation. Of course this isn't as efficient as just speaking one language, but it is the reality. I know, as an American you're probably thinking "well why don't you all just speak English?"

        I had a funny situation on the outskirts of San Francisco once. I asked a guy sweeping up outside a MacDonalds some directions. I replied in very stilted English that he couldn't understand me because he didn't speak English. I noticed his accent so I asked him my question in Spanish. The look of suprise and joy on his face was comical. He told me that most Americans can't speak another language and expect you to learn English, but not speaking another language themselves don't realise that learning another language isn't easy. And they treat you like crap and think you're stupid if you can't speak English. I don't know if what he said is true or not, but unfortunately I don't find it hard to believe.

        • Re:Over-hyped (Score:5, Insightful)

          by cperciva ( 102828 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @06:05AM (#7102156) Homepage
          Sure, there are lots of languages in Europe. But do you really need to have half a dozen of them in a project which only has a hundred people?

          Any company which was running a project like this would have picked one location, hired a bunch of people, and had them all working in the same building, speaking the same language. It's only because of EU politics -- the requirement that the EU Datagrid be a multinational consortium -- that there are so many languages and locations involved.

          • Re:Over-hyped (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Znork ( 31774 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @06:34AM (#7102237)
            "Any company which was running a project like this would have picked one location, hired a bunch of people, and had them all working in the same building, speaking the same language."

            And then tried to launch the grid project at multiple corporate sites, whereupon they discover the nice little problem that corporate politics and economics result in them not being able to run that project anywhere but at the site where the project was developed - your project, we're not contributing a cents worth of spare capacity, go buy your own machines.

            If you want a project like this to have the faintest chance to succeed you get all the people who are expected to contribute anything out of their budget involved. Or you'll get sunk. Even in a corporation. And for a multinational, that means you have people with different native languages. This is usually not a problem in a multinational because the people involved in such projects usually have at least one language in common, and often more.
        • ...another language is that it's very hard for many of us to find opportunities to use it. I wish I could speak more than one language. I also like the concept of everybody learning Esperanto and making that the universal tounge. The problem is, in the entire course of my life, I've met only a handful of people who speak a language other than English. I've tried to learn German, but because I very rarely get to use it, I can't remember it.

          Because of this, circumstances do sort of require that if you're
        • .. also in reality in europe most of people(at least in northern europe) also speak english.

          i'm expected to speak 3 languages(finnish, english and swedish, which i don't speak too well.. but can understand somewhat still). the language i use when dealing with people who don't speak finnish is english(that includes one of the guys who i share the bathroom and kitchen with who is chinese, and the german and polish guys before him)

          well, i do know for a fact that it's not that uncommon in southern europe that

        • but unfortunately I don't find it hard to believe.

          Which reveals your biases. Almost all high schools and jr. highs in America require 3-5 years of F.L study. I myself am fairly fluent in spanish (which is by far the largest second language in America).

          But this is also a cultural difference between America and Europe. Simply put, we have far far too many ethnic minorities here to use anything other then one or two languages in general use, and 10-12 in court use (a friend of mine is a translator at dist
        • Look, if I were to move to Germany I'd learn German, and become pretty damn good at it.

          My attitude is that if English is considered the business language of the world, that most new developments are done in English, that if you move to the US, you better learn the damn language.

    • Under-hyped (Score:5, Insightful)

      by pubjames ( 468013 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @05:16AM (#7102042)
      I think one thing that distinguishes the USA from Europe (and in fact many other countries) is that, in the USA, you're really good at hyping stuff.

      Over here in Europe we're crap at it, or rather, it's not seen as being so important - which I believe is a mistake.

      I was once knew a marketing person at CERN who said that as they had invented the web, they were thinking of putting up some good web pages about it to let the world know what they had achieved. Later I found out that she had been told that it had been decided that it wasn't a priority and so no budget was allocated to it. So outside of techy fields most people in the world don't know that the web was invented in Europe. (Yes, I know the Internet network was an American invention).

      This is true of many other achievements in Europe. For instance, everyone in the world knows lots about NASA and yet very little about the achievements of the European Space Agency, which has also done some really impressive things.

      The USA also has a good way of claiming innovations as its own, by "Americanising" everything. So, for instance, most people - Americans and non-Americans - think that most technological innovation during the last century has been American, whereas in actual fact much of it was just "absorbed" by America. Example - landing on the moon is seen as a purely American achievement but was actually significantly based on German work. Another example - Einstein was of course European but many people believe he was American.

      Don't get me wrong. I'm not really criticising the USA, I'm actually criticising Europe for not promoting its achievements or those of its citizens. And of course one of the great things about the USA is that it has the money and drive to make things happen, which is why many projects initiated in other places end up taking off in the USA. But it is frustrating to meet Americans that believe that everything is invented in America.

      • In a similar vein (but taken further), there is a dangerous trend of American revisionism in films, especially related to the second world war. I just wonder if Americans will ever rename their language to "American"...

      • Re:Under-hyped (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Bi()hazard ( 323405 )
        There's good reasons why most of your examples were favorable to America. Outstanding, one in a million reasons, reasons so good you HAVE to subscribe now for the low, low price of $14.99, half off the retail value!!! (yes, I'm an american)

        But more seriously, NASA gets headlines and the ESF doesn't because NASA was there first with the things that impress the general public. It might be more scientifically sound to be conservative and focus on what benefits research, but you get credit for sticking some gu

        • Re:Under-hyped (Score:3, Insightful)

          by pubjames ( 468013 )
          Your response shows factual errors that just highlight what I am saying.

          For instance, Einstein did nearly all his significant work and published most of his important papers whilst he was in Europe. He only fled to the US in around 1931, after he had published nearly all of his most significant work. And yet you seem to believe that Einstein and others like him "only achieved greatness because they fled to a land where they were allowed to develop their ideas." That's just rubbish, and your misunderstandin
          • Accordingly, it's rather interesting that American society associates Einstein (or his icon) with genius. In conversation you might here something like "Yeah, Jimmy over there is soooo smart! He's such an Einstein!".

            (Of course then, you have to wonder why the US lags behind some other countries in science education....)

            • Re:Under-hyped (Score:3, Insightful)

              by Aglassis ( 10161 )
              You said: "(Of course then, you have to wonder why the US lags behind some other countries in science education....)"

              You have to be really careful to say exactly what you mean when you make general statements like this. While it is true that US K-12 (or in particular 8-12) science education falls behind much of Europe, that is not true for college education or other types of education not normally considered (thinktanks, museums, libraries, private education, etc.,). You can't always compare one countrie
              • You can't always compare one countries science education against another because they use different methods of implementation in their education process.

                You can compare countries by giving students the same test. That's exactly what the The Third International Math and Science Study (TIMMS) [bc.edu] did.

                To get around your objection that some countries segregate students after 8th grade, they tested 4th and 8th graders in all the participating countries. Bottom line was that if you are an American who scored in th

          • In the case of Einstein we had the common sense to not try and make a genius fear for his life. Another smart thing we do is to never fund groups that want to kill our customers. Also our PR firms would never make an add as horrible as the dam Mentos one.
      • The USA also has a good way of claiming innovations as its own, by "Americanising" everything. So, for instance, most people - Americans and non-Americans - think that most technological innovation during the last century has been American, whereas in actual fact much of it was just "absorbed" by America.

        It's not just technology... Pizza is a prime example. Some (fortunately not that many) Americans think it's an American thing.

        • Pizza is a prime example. Some (fortunately not that many) Americans think it's an American thing.
          If it's got meat and cheese on it, it is.
          The original Pizza ("Tomato Pie") is tomato paste and bread.

      • For instance, everyone in the world knows lots about NASA and yet very little about the achievements of the European Space Agency

        Europe has a space agency? :)

      • Re:Under-hyped (Score:2, Insightful)

        by tenchiken ( 22661 )
        I think it's more that we like to take technology out to it's conclusion. For example you state:


        I was once knew a marketing person at CERN who said that as they had invented the web, they were thinking of putting up some good web pages about it to let the world know what they had achieved. Later I found out that she had been told that it had been decided that it wasn't a priority and so no budget was allocated to it. So outside of techy fields most people in the world don't know that the web was invented
        • Thank you for pointing out my misunderstandings. I now understand that:

          a) Actually, America invented the web.
          b) The European space agency wouldn't have achieved anything if it weren't for America.
          c) Americans invented the car, rockets, flight, the internet, and atomic energy (and those Americans would take it as an insult to be called Europeans).
          d) Europe has a bad attitude to immigration.
          e) Einstein was American.
          f) The German work that the Americans used to land on the moon was actually American.

          I can se
          • you thesis was:

            [American's] think that most technological innovation during the last century has been American, whereas in actual fact much of it was just "absorbed" by America.

            My point is that each of the five big technological advances of the last century started here. Mass produced Cars (and the combustion engine), Planes (lightweight engines as well), Atomic Energy (both bombs and other wise), the Internet, and Rockets all were created here. If you want to go even further back, Take a look at Thoma

            • Your point is simply not valid.

              You're right! All major technologies since America was founded originated in America by Americans, and were not based in any way on any work done outside of America, or by non-Americans.

              Now I cannot think of a single thing that someone outside of America has invented. Oh wait! Didn't the French invent waffles?

            • Atomic Energy (both bombs and other wise)
              Many of the atomic scientists working in the US on this during World War two came from Eurpoe, by way of the UK, and they were in the US because the US and the UK chose to combine efforts on researching the atom bomb after the US joined the war. It was mutually agreed that it made more sense to carry out the research in the US (and move the scientists out of Britian to join with the US effort) because the US could hide them away from public eyes easier - there wa
        • > They were American. Just like I am American.
          > This is a fact that "American's get" and
          > European's tend not to. We don't care where you
          > were born, or what your past life was.

          Of course, those people not here to verify your conjecture on that, but you seem to be saying that just because somebody lives in America they are American.

          That does actually explain to me a lot about how Americans think. The whole "melting pot" mentality (racist lunatics or various flavours notwithstanding) basically c

      • The USA also has a good way of claiming innovations as its own, by "Americanising" everything.

        This is true in TV as well. I've been seeing ads for this "new" show "Coupling" on NBC, so I decided to set my ReplayTV to record it. (Studios are smart: they put ads for new shows at the end of the commercial break, so when I 30-second skip too far, I end up 7-second instant replaying back a bit too far as well; and if the commercial looks interesting, I'll rewind to the beginning of it.)

        Since it was a f

    • I have heard from some people involved in the grid that it is a triumph of PR over substance, and that it is not going to be as well-used and participated in as the press releases suggest...

      Well when I was working on the Web at CERN they already had comprehensive facilities for distributing computing jobs over large numbers of workstations. Most physics code is pretty easy to parallelise at the event level - whether it be simulations or analysis. So no, it is very clear that the grid will be extensively u

  • When will we do this ourselves? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Max Romantschuk ( 132276 ) <max@romantschuk.fi> on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @04:27AM (#7101915) Homepage
    Distributed computing has been a long time coming. Sure, grids are cool, but when can we download a safe piece of software which to use for distributed calculations? When I'm not it need of doing stuff myself it would use my idle time for other people's calculations, and vice versa.

    Sure it doesn't work for any type of calculation, but there's still a huge potential.

    Distributed backups is another thing I'd like to have now, rather than tomorrow...
    • I apologize in advance if this is stupid, but isn't what you're talking about exactly what SETI does? I thought they used distributed software to do calculations.
      • I apologize in advance if this is stupid, but isn't what you're talking about exactly what SETI does?

        The question is not at all stupid. SETI@Home does this, as does Folding@Home, Distributed.net etc...

        But in all of these cases the calculations being done are determined by the server. I'd like to see a system where the calculations could be determined by the users. Providing everyone doesn't need to calculate huge stuff all the time it should work.

        The major issue is data security. The program has to be
        • Ahh, I see what you mean now. If implemented properly I think that could really be a great idea. An open yet secure platform for the community to perform calculations that they might never be able to perform reasonably on their own.
          • One problem with this is the ability of some idiot to absorba an almost infinite amount of processing time if it is available. Like trying to find primes using the Sieve of Eratosthenes in a half-baked implementation across the whole net. The current difficulty of Grid computing means that people trying to do it a re serious about it and optimise their algorithms and test before launching across a million PCs. Make it easy, and peope will kaunce "while (1 == 0)" across all the PC in the world and wonder why

      • Distributed computing has been a long time coming. Sure, grids are cool, but when can we download a safe piece of software which to use for distributed calculations? When I'm not it need of doing stuff myself it would use my idle time for other people's calculations, and vice versa.

        I apologize in advance if this is stupid, but isn't what you're talking about exactly what SETI does? I thought they used distributed software to do calculations.

        I think he means a generalised piece of software - i.e. you c

        • if John Q. Terrorist uploads a model for generating anthrax yields, are all the other people liable for assisting in the production of biological weapons?

          No, since as part of the Grid, everyone will have proof of who authorized the calculation; you'll be able to say to the Feds "I can prove it was John Q. Terrorist, Kabul."

          Of course, the Feds will ask you why you were selling any compute time to JQT given that the Grid doesn't mean that you have to sell to all-comers (no more than you have to give Unix

      • Re:When will we do this ourselves? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by grid geek ( 532440 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @04:54AM (#7101999) Homepage

        No, seti is a distributed application - 3 million instances of the same program. The grid is a distributed environment - an operating system if you like, which programmers can write their own applications to run on top of.

        Like the OS for your desktop the Grid's middleware software deals with things like I/O, resource allocation, security etc.

        So, seti@home could run on the grid, but is not a grid in its own right.

    • Distributed backups is another thing I'd like to have now, rather than tomorrow...

      How about this? [bash.org]

    • Meanwhile, just use one of the plenty of distributed computing programs that already exist for scientific research, if ever you got bored by SETI@home...
      Analytical Spectroscopy Research Group [uky.edu]
      evolution@home [evolutiona...search.org]
      eOn [washington.edu]
      Climate Prediction [climateprediction.net]
      Distributed Particle Accelerator Design [stephenbrooks.org]
      LifeMapper [lifemapper.org]
      etc...
    • may you want to try this one: openmosix [sourceforge.net]

      • I know about OpenMosix, but what I just wondered about was this...

        Why not run a VPN for a worldwide network of "trusted" OpenMosix machines? OpenMosix is tunable, so you could tell it if you're on a slow-as dial-up link, so it only gives you long running jobs. You could use a chain of trust approach if required, or just sign up via the OpenMosix website for example.

        That might even actually work.

    • Re:When will we do this ourselves? (Score:4, Informative)

      by sql*kitten ( 1359 ) * on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @05:26AM (#7102069)
      Sure, grids are cool, but when can we download a safe piece of software which to use for distributed calculations? When I'm not it need of doing stuff myself it would use my idle time for other people's calculations, and vice versa.

      You can get it here [sun.com] along with some case studies of how it's used in production.

      Distributed backups is another thing I'd like to have now, rather than tomorrow...

      Uuencode, split, and post to Usenet...

      • We (the USA) have multiple times:

        The TeraGrid [teragrid.org] is the NSF flagship for grid computing - be it good or bad.

        The Grid.org [grid.org] people are some of the former SETI@home people gone more general purpose.

        And of course, there is The Global Grid Forum [ggf.org] which is meeting in Chicago in a week or so. GGF is the standards behind the Globus enabled grid.

        We could ask why CERN/etal couldn't have come up with a slightly more imaginary name?

        We can also ask why NSF [nsf.gov] are such suckers for the last 20 years of hype from the pe

    • Distributed backups is another thing I'd like to have now, rather than tomorrow...

      Three steps to a distributed backup:

      Step one: Zip and encrypt your data into 650mb size chunks.

      Step two: Name the chucks 'Matrix Reloaded' and 'Britney and Madonna Snog and Shag'

      Step three: Share on Kazaa.
    • Distributed backups is another thing I'd like to have now, rather than tomorrow...

      Ask and you shall receive...

      Check out HiveCache [hivecache.com] for grid-based backups for your enterprise. There are lots of great distributed systems out there that do more than just provide a cheap supercomputer replacement. Some of them can actually save your biz money and eliminate some of the more unpleasant tasks your IT staff has to deal with.

      • Ask and you shall receive... Check out HiveCache for grid-based backups for your enterprise.

        Thanks for the info, but unfortunately this solution lacks two things I'm looking for: Open sourceness and platform independency.

        The idea is right on target though, but I'm still waiting for a solution I can run together with my friends and over the Internet. This also implies public key encryption and an efficient distribution system though :)

  • Datagrid homepage (Score:4, Informative)

    by maharg ( 182366 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @04:28AM (#7101920) Homepage Journal
    http://eu-datagrid.web.cern.ch/eu-datagrid/ [web.cern.ch]

    • Re:Datagrid homepage (Score:4, Funny)

      by henben ( 578800 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @06:41AM (#7102257)
      Jesus, look at this.

      Here's their "intranet", which is publically accessible:

      http://eu-datagrid.web.cern.ch/eu-datagrid/intrane t_home.htm

      You can't access all the reports, but you can get lots of design documents and stuff. It's done in FrontPage and riddled with spelling errors. Not promising.

      • Have you worked in a post-graduate computational research environment? I worked for a subgroup at TICAM (now ICES [utexas.edu]) at UT back when I was a student and most of the grad students, post-docs, researchers, etc. in the places where I've worked speak very little english and have no eye for presentation. Most of them WOULD use FrontPage, because they just want to slap something up there. They often also had a hard time doing even the most basic stuff in Powerpoint. I find most of the people that are real into theo

  • CERN didn't invent the web.. (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Al Gore did

  • The Grid? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Jason1729 ( 561790 )
    Time for a lot of That sounds like the Matrix jokes

    Jason
    ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]

  • Don't diss it (Score:3, Interesting)

    by wodon ( 563966 ) * on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @04:36AM (#7101944)
    I know it sounds like the world domination scheme from a bond film, but I've seen what it can do.

    A friend of mine is working on part of the grid for his PHD in the uk
    and once you have watched him transfer 700 MB files from the uk to
    Switzerland in under a minute you realise that they aren't joking.

    I guess their next step is running quake over it!

  • Power to the Grid! (Score:4, Funny)

    by richie2000 ( 159732 ) <rickard.olsson@gmail.com> on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @04:38AM (#7101956) Homepage Journal
    The Grid taps computing power from 12 countries

    And electrical power from how many?

    (

    I for one welcome our new Grid ove *thwap*
    But, just imagine a Beow *thud*
    In Soviet Russia, the Gridski compu *wham*
    )
  • Imagine a beowulf cluster of... oh wait.
  • ...you have to see it for yourself.

    From Reference.com [reference.com]:

    Entry: matrix
    Function: noun
    Definition: origin
    Synonyms: cast, forge, form, grid, model, mold, origin, pattern, source, womb
    Concept: origin/source
    Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0).

  • What they do at CERN (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hkon ( 46756 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @04:56AM (#7102003) Homepage
    Is it just me, or is referring to CERN as "the guys who invented the web" a bit like referring to Paul McCartney as "the guy from Wings"? To a lot of people, CERN is probably better known as "the guys who know more than anyone about particle physics".
  • I've been a big fan of distributed computing ever since distributed.net [distributed.net] came out with their first client. The TCA Internet team used to be hot stuff back in the day as far as number crunchers (due primarily to me sticking the RC5 client on all three of the NOC's e450's as well as all the cube farm machines). So naturally, this interests me. I wanted to see what it took to get a grid-enabled machine. Costs involved. Scope of the project. The article's fine and all, but I knew I could go direct to the s [www.cern.ch]
  • the equivalent of more than 20 million CDs a year
    Why can't journalist start using Terabytes and Petabytes instead of "the equivalent of x number of CD's" and "x number the Library of Congres"?

    • Why can't journalist start using Terabytes and Petabytes instead of "the equivalent of x number of CD's" and "x number the Library of Congres"?

      Because they're still niche terms, just like gigabyte was a few years ago. They're not meaningful to mainstream readership yet (though terabyte likely will be soon, as consumer demand for digital video storage continues to increase).

      You will also be disappointed if you expected USA Today articles to mention megaparsecs and kiloTesla anytime soon.

    • Re:"The equivalent of" (Score:3, Informative)

      by ColaMan ( 37550 )
      Because your average layman wouldn't know a terabyte if you force fed it to him , bit-by-bit.
      For example - I bought an 80GB drive for a server the other day.....

      Secretary : "80GB? how big is that?"

      Me: "Well...... if you presume that there are:
      80 characters across a page by 66 lines down, you get approx 4000 characters per page of (dense) text.
      So, 80 thousand million divided by 4000 gives you 20 million pages of text."

      Secretary (mildly impressed): "That's a lot!"

      Now, she has no real idea how muc

  • Mmm, supercollider (Score:4, Funny)

    by Spunk ( 83964 ) <sq75b5402@sneakemail.com> on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @05:18AM (#7102051) Homepage
    I'm getting a hadron just thinking about it.
  • I for one am excited by the potential for offloading complex calculations from my machine [it-director.com] to online electricity grid like computing power that frees my lonely machine to be more responsive to the things I want it to do. And leave the slow boring lone-processor killing stuff to another.

    This would mean that silly frivilous things like email apps etc would literally jump to attention regardless as to the size of the file I am working on, rather than as now everything slowly to treacle...

    Question is paying for it. It would have to be cheap, built into the operating system and require fast broadband to transfer the data to the servers... Few year yet probably...

  • ..as a user of GRID (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I can tell you it is not a waste of time, or some glorified PR exercise. The establishment I work at specialises in large-scale carbon growth modelling, and we have seen computational time for whole-Europe models fall from 48 hours on a dual P4 Xeon to a mere 5 minutes using MPI Fortan/C++ on a 64-node GRID machine.

  • Correction (Score:2, Funny)

    by GreggBert ( 89663 )
    "The BBC is reporting that CERN (the guys who invented the Web)..."

    I thought Al Gore invented the Web as part of that Internet invention thingy of his.

  • Which parts? (Score:3, Funny)

    by aaaurgh ( 455697 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @07:52AM (#7102582)
    "...that will simulate parts of the Big Bang"

    Which parts? The "BA..." or the "...NG!" or the "What the f**k was that?" 8-)

  • Coincidentally, I just finished reading "Angels & Demons" [danbrown.com] by Dan Brown [danbrown.com] last week. The book talks a little about CERN's work in "recreating the Big Bang" and anti-matter and all that fun stuff. It's a pretty good book about the Illuminati, and it gives you a little look into art history in and around the Vatican as well.

    It wasn't as good as "The DaVinci Code" [danbrown.com] though. (Possibly one of the most interesting books I've ever read.)

    NOTE: If you want to read the books, don't look at the pictures on the websit
    • And by the way... CERN IS THE DEVIL!

      What's their logo [web.cern.ch] all about? 2 rings and 5 lines going out from it?? Rotate the logo and you'll see three 6's!!! SATANISTS!!! ;-)

  • I used to work there... (Score:3, Informative)

    by mt-biker ( 514724 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @08:33AM (#7102883)
    I used to work in the computer centre at CERN, and they've been using distributed computing (read "clusters") for a long time (at least 10 years) now. By the time I left, there were already some 500 2 CPU Linux PCs in the computer centre, and a serious amount of thought was being given to building a mezzanine level within the computer centre to create more floor space for PCs. CERNs problem was always one of scale.

    Now it seems they want to buy floor space at other institutions around the world. :) I hope it all works out. What I'm wondering is what sort of network they have connecting the sites - the work load of these machines is very simple - but mostly IO bound. What sort of bandwidth do they need to make 15,000 TB available all over the world?

    More fun facts - at the time I left they had 5 STK Powderhorn silos, holding their current data. Prediction for LHC requirements (including better tape storage densities) was that they would need another 40 silos. If you've seen an STK Powderhorn, then you know just how ig the things are. So another building was to be built just for these silos. :)

    Oh, and as someone pointed out, the 15,000 TBs a year is just the data that gets kept - the live data from the detectors is preprocessed in the computer centre and "thinned out". The data rates coming into the computer centre are truly mind-boggling.
    • During integration of new security software i saw the building of a new place to store more computers. There are 1300 nodes @ the computer centre (as one cluster, not mentioned other smaller ones). New power cabeling... DataTAG is a collaborating project with EDG that is also working on Internet2 for HighSpeed and Long Distance Networking issues (optimizing, altering tcp-stack, Level-1 networking, other stuff). @DataTAG there was a route set from Amsterdam to California with a average of 933Mbit/s. 5
  • So at what time did it become self-aware?

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