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Science

Oldest European Human Jawbone Discovered 34

Posted by timothy from the but-was-he-an-ass dept.
DrLudicrous writes "A research group working in Romania has dated an ancient human jawbone to 35+/-1 thousand years old. This is a few thousand years older than other jawbones found in Europe. What is unusual about this specimen is that it has rather large molars, something that the lead scientist thinks may be an indication of human-Neanderthal interbreeding. Modern DNA studies have indicated that there is little to no traces of this inbreeding, so this raises some interesting questions."
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Oldest European Human Jawbone Discovered More

Oldest European Human Jawbone Discovered

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  • I keep imagining this super-old Swiss dude waving an indignant fist at the scientists: "You bastards, I was using that!"

  • Multiregional vs. Out of Africa (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Henry V .009 ( 518000 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @12:06AM (#7100810) Journal
    Oldest according to the Out of Africa theory. The Multiregional theory [typepad.com] claims that Neanderthals are part of the human race. (Check out the second linked pdf for a good paper on the DNA evidence: "Population Bottlenecks and Pleistocene Human Evolution")
    • ...and lots of evidence of interbreeding has already been, heh, dug up. Neandertals also have larger brains than us on average, so which way did the development arrow point? (-:
      • What evidence has been found that Neanderthals bred with humans? None that I know of. The genetic record, and current thinking, suggests that no modern humans have a Neanderthal genetic legacy. If early Homo sapiens sapiens did mate with Neanderthals, offspring were probably infertile. The last common ancestor of Neanderthals and us seems to be ~ 500,000 years ago (4 * the estimated common human ancestor).
        • Try here [bbc.co.uk], here [wustl.edu], here [abc.net.au] and here [geocities.com], and next time don't be so dang' lazy.

          Yes, I know there are also articles claiming that sapiens and neandertalis didn't interbreed, people seem to need them every few years to reassure themselves that all of those hybrid skeletons are just phantasms. The last page above references several articles which address this very issue.

          • In what way was I lazy? I suggest it is you who is lazy, in being dogmatic and refusing to accept the possibility of the majority scientific view being correct! Even the stories you link to admit the 'theory is controversial' and 'Most anthropologists seem to accept the conclusion of molecular evolutionists that the recently obtained sequences of Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA prove that Neanderthals and Cromagnons did not interbreed'. Also, 'all those hybrid skeletons'? Only a single (possible) example is m

  • More Info (Score:2, Informative)

    by poppen_fresh ( 65995 )
    The lead scientist is a professer at Washington University in St. Louis [wustl.edu]. There is more info [wustl.edu] at the university's web site. It turns out there was more than a jawbone found, but the rest of the bones haven't been analyzed yet.
  • I think it's great how they find this jawbone that has large molars and all of a sudden that means that there was inter-species reproduction and all the current crackpot theories have to be thrown out the window for a new crackpot theory...

    Sometimes scientists infer and speculate way too much based on the data they have. It's kind of getting stretched so far it's starting not to resemble science at all.


    • From your post, I can tell that your parents frequently beat you as a child, and that your neuroses have grown to your current distrust of scientific authority.

    • Re: Large molars (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Black Parrot ( 19622 )

      > I think it's great how they find this jawbone that has large molars and all of a sudden that means that there was inter-species reproduction and all the current crackpot theories have to be thrown out the window for a new crackpot theory...

      More charitably, these guys have offered some new evidence and an agument, and over the next few months or years we'll find out whether the relevant experts find the argument convincing.

      > Sometimes scientists infer and speculate way too much based on the data

    • if you think it's so great why you bitch about it?

      you do realise that you can have multiple theories about one issue and can evaluate all of them individually and as a whole and it is more probable that this leads to better understanding than just having 'one true theory' at a given time?

      besides, i'm pretty sure you wouldn't notice science if it struck you in the head with a bsod of holyness.
  • I thought that Cro Magnons (sp) were still pre Homo Sapian.

  • inbreeding != interbreeding (Score:3, Informative)

    by bigsteve@dstc ( 140392 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @02:51AM (#7101420)
    Re the Slashdot summary text: the terms 'Inbreeding' and 'interbreeding' do not mean the same thing. In fact, they are close to opposites.

    You could call me a nit-picker, but you wouldn't be quite correct :-)

  • but i thought the reverend whoziwhatsis said the earth was only 10 thousand years old? doesn't this show that anthropologists are really anti-religion? they're essentially like hitler. they must be stopped. lobby bush to bomb nazi anthropology departments across the country!
  • In high school, we learned that different species are considered separate when they can no longer interbreed, with a few exceptions, i.e. horse + donkey = mule (though, mules are sterile). Ergo, if Cro-Magnon men could interbreed with Neanderthals, then Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon men are of the same species. Ergo, there would be evidence that the Multiregional theory is correct. That's what all the "missing link" fuss was about.
    • Just about right.

      In the animal kingdom, two creatures are the same species if they can (and do) interbreed and produce viable offspring (i.e. offspring that can also reproduce. Therefore, horses and donkeys don't violate that rule. Plants are another matter entirly, as such rules don't seem to apply (plants love to hybridize)...

      This can raise some interesting questions. For instance, are Bornean and Sumatran Orangutans of the same species? They certainly could produce viable offspring, but they are
  • The right spelling and pronunciation is Neandertal. I thought everyone knew that by now.
    • Pronounciation, yes, spelling, not necessarily.
    • The right spelling and pronunciation is "Neandertal". I thought everyone knew that by now.

      Bullsh*t: neandertal [reference.com]

      A real pedant would demand it be spelled and pronounced Homo neanderthalensis.

      • The right spelling and pronunciation is "Neandertal".
        Bullsh*t
        Just more evidence for my theory that the german habit of frequently changing orthography rules is just meant to confuse the heck out of everybody, and then have fun watch the resulting flamewars. Basically, a giant trolling.
  • Oh, jawbone, when did you first go wrong?
    Oh, jawbone, where is it you belong?

    </the Band>

    [What good is Karma if you can't burn some of it up once in a while?]

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