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Education Science Technology

MIT Robot Walks On Water 283

Posted by timothy from the just-not-evenly-distributed dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Researchers at MIT have solved the mystery of how water striders propel themselves across water surfaces and in the process have created a robot called Robostrider that mimics the behavior. With cool stuff like this, it's no wonder MIT is number one in engineering."
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MIT Robot Walks On Water More

MIT Robot Walks On Water

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  • Yes but... (Score:4, Funny)

    by egg troll ( 515396 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:16PM (#6790465) Homepage Journal
    Can it turn that water into wine?

  • Case of the Mondays (Score:3, Informative)

    by MhzJnky ( 443677 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:17PM (#6790479) Homepage
    Slashdot had a case of the mondays and frogot itself [slashdot.org]

  • Eh?? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by whereiswaldo ( 459052 )
    It's no mystery why water spiders can walk on water. All the engineers had to do was ask these 3rd graders a question [harvard.edu].

    • Re:Eh?? (Score:5, Informative)

      by dollargonzo ( 519030 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:25PM (#6790547) Homepage
      it's no mystery as to how they stay afloat. the big question was how they propel themselves

    • Re:Eh?? (Score:5, Informative)

      by thelen ( 208445 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:28PM (#6790566) Homepage

      The question is about propulsion, not weight-to-surface tension ratios sufficient for flotation. This research gives a better explanation of the mechanism by which the water skimmers move with such great efficiency (namely by created subsurface vortices with their middle pair of legs) and puts to rest the notion that it is attributable to the waves themselves created by a rowing action.

      • Re:Eh?? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by uradu ( 10768 )
        > The question is about propulsion, not weight-to-surface tension ratios sufficient for flotation

        Unfortunately the article doesn't make that very clear. They could spell out that the issue is locomotion, not flotation. At first I thought, what the h3ll, it's obvious that they're floating because they're not breaking the surface tension. But then they kept talking about moving and skimming and swimming, so it dawned on me that they're talking about how the walker generates forward motion on a near fricti
      • Pardon my ignorance, but WTH is a subsurface vortice and what does that have to do with moving?

  • Point of note (Score:5, Interesting)

    by NoTheory ( 580275 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:18PM (#6790495)
    Actually there are several people who thing that MIT's direction in AI has gone seriously awry. Marvin Minsky (though somewhat stodgy), has pointed out that MIT's focus in robotics is no longer on figuring out how to make things that do stuff for people, but on subhuman gadgets.

    So, yeah they may be number one, but in a way, they've let down the old guard of AI researchers.

    Still, this is quite cool.

    • Re:Point of note (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Dachannien ( 617929 )
      As one of many in the "new guard" of AI researchers, I say that Minsky's ideas, while important in their historical perspective, overshadow the vast possibilities of artificial and computational intelligence by overemphasizing their importance due to the fame and mystique surrounding the name "Minsky".

    • Re:Point of note (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dollargonzo ( 519030 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:30PM (#6790572) Homepage
      problem is, minsky spends too much time debunking good theory than creating new ones. let's take an example. minsky proved that 2-layer neural networks were not capable of generalizing to many tasks. the proof is indeed notable, but then came *gasp* three layer neural networks, and minsky's point was irrelevant. i think he is just pissed that his ideas were mostly abandoned by AI researchers.

      • Re:Point of note (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I love /.! At least this poster has the general idea if not the details.

        Minsky said that a single layer perceptron (just a linear discriminator) could not learn XOR. If you plot a 2-input XOR it's obviously not linearly separable. And it's not just the extra layers but rather the activation function at each perceptron that had to change.

      • Re:Point of note (Score:2, Interesting)

        by NoTheory ( 580275 )
        This is a reply to the above two posts

        as someone who's interested in computational neurodynamics, i've got ambivielent feelings about alot of the stuff minsky says, but i can't help but sympathize with him to some degree on this subject. Robots are cool, robots are useful, but the stuff that comes out of MIT's AI lab, has lost focus on the original goal of what he and the pioneers of the area were after.

        Heading off in a different direction isn't bad, in fact, i think a lot of these devices are quite i

      • Re:Point of note (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I think some of your facts are wrong..

        If I remember correctly Minsky showed that a two layer linear neural network is not very capapable recognizer (and two 2-layer linear networks == one 2-layer linear neural network,(matrices: AB = C)). From which he made the wrong assumption that neural networks with non-linear neural responses wouldn't be very good either.

      • Marvin [safeshopper.com] Minsky when he is angry? ... sorry, wrong Marvin.

      • Re:Point of note (Score:3, Insightful)

        by femto ( 459605 )
        Why is it that so few people realise the value in proving something to be false?

        The research/reward system discriminates against those who debunk myths. If you prove something to be false you can't patent it and make a pot of money off it. Meanwhile, your hard work has eliminated 'red herrings' allowing others to advance more quickly. Those 'successful' people then take out patents, arrived at more quickly as a consequence of your results, and prevent you from reaping the fruits of your own labour.

        T

    • This story has nothing to do with AI.
    • How about the fact that AI from a top-down approach (i.e. trying to make a human-like brain) has been failing miserably for the past 50 years, and that building small, simple things has been pretty successful, and is the very mechanism that nature used to make the human brain (making small, incremental improvements on simpler systems).

    • what's the research about again? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by jonbrewer ( 11894 ) * on Monday August 25, 2003 @10:47PM (#6791019) Homepage
      several people who thing that MIT's direction in AI has gone seriously awry

      What does this have to do with AI?

      The research reported on is primarily about fluid dynamics. Robostrider is a catchy thing they've created to bring attention to the important findings. In fact, seeing as the strider [mit.edu] is powered by a rubber band, not only does it not have anything to do with AI, it has nothing to do with robotics either.

      This doesn't mean it's not wicked cool.

      For more cool (without downloading a video), check out david hu's beautiful strider pics [mit.edu].

  • Well, sure... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Faust7 ( 314817 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:19PM (#6790500) Homepage
    If the water's polluted enough, anyone can walk on it.
  • but dead last in babe-filled orgies!

  • I predict... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonvmous Coward ( 589068 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:21PM (#6790515)
    ... somebody will soon use the word 'overlords', and it won't really be funny.
    • And I, for one, welcome our MIT overlords. As a trusted Slashdot personality, I can be useful in rounding up other Slashbots to toil in their underground...........oh wait....the story's about robotic waterstriders?

  • MIT (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Dachannien ( 617929 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:21PM (#6790522)
    Yes, this particular research project is very cool.

    However, since it was mentioned in the original post, I will say that USN&WR's rankings are flawed, and do not necessarily reflect the quality of research taking place at a particular institution. In fact, a significant portion of their rankings are based on name recognition alone, which has nothing to do with quality of research.

  • Dupe (Score:5, Informative)

    by Saeger ( 456549 ) <farrellj@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:22PM (#6790523) Homepage
    This water strider story [slashdot.org] was posted two weeks ago, but because the way it was worded this time, the focus of the posts will probably be on robots (and dupe flaming) rather than the Christian Science Monitor being remarkably unbiased. :)

    --

    • Re:Dupe (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I can't figure this out. I'm an apathetic agnostic (by which I mean that I care so little about religion and the question of the existence of deities that I can't even bother to call myself an atheist) and I generally find the Christian Science Monitor to be one of the more reputable publications here in the US of A. Maybe people see the word "Christian" in the title and fly off the handle?

      Take a look at it [csmonitor.com], for crying out loud. The CSM is not some kind of slobbering fundamentalist rag. It's a mainstream

      • Re:Dupe (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Phroggy ( 441 ) *
        Maybe people see the word "Christian" in the title and fly off the handle?

        I'd bet some people see "Science" in the title and confuse it with the Church of Scientology.

  • Mirror (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    In case the site is slow, here's [martin-studio.com] a mirror to the link in the article.

  • The real reason why (Score:5, Funny)

    by Catharz ( 223736 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:30PM (#6790579)
    MIT is number one in engineering.

    Robostrider is made out of a 7-Up can, stainless steel wire legs and an elastic band coupled to a pulley to power its middle legs.

    Too much 7-Up and not enough beer being consumed for it to be a fair contest. They should increase their beer consumption to that of other colleges and level the playing field.
    • MIT students are FAMOUS for their excesses. Drugs, Alcohol, Sex, you name it. So don't kid yourself. Most MIT kids are getting way more than their RDA of beer and liquor.

      I've met MIT frat boys (yes, MIT has real frats, and real frat parties.) whose frats had "drug budgets" and an officer of Drug Procurement. I've been asked to leave frat parties because they didn't want me competing for the girls I came with.

      MIT kids are not dorky and innocent. Anyone who thinks so is in for a surprise.

    • Re:The real reason why (Score:3, Insightful)

      by mizhi ( 186984 )
      MIT is an incubator of two things: bright engineers and alcoholics.

  • very pc of them (Score:5, Funny)

    by jmarkantes ( 663024 ) <jason@NoSpaM.markantes.com> on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:32PM (#6790591)
    Can't upset the censors [mit.edu].

    J

  • I wonder ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:39PM (#6790641)
    If it can walk on water - does it run on linux?

  • correction.. (Score:3, Informative)

    by linuxislandsucks ( 461335 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:40PM (#6790651) Homepage Journal
    The actual measure of the number one school engineering is the school with the highest number of graduates as actual astronauts serving with NASA..

    That record past and present is held by Purdue University...

  • I bet it walks on Charles river (Score:5, Funny)

    by meshko ( 413657 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:44PM (#6790676) Homepage
    Charles river (the river that MIT stands on) is always covered by a film of oil which is approximately one inch thick. You don't have to be a freaking rocket scientist to build a robot which walks on *that*.
    • Cool. Go build one. Scientific fame awaits you.

      The problem is not floating, the problem is walking... propulsion....

    • Aside from the fact that that's completely untrue (ask all the folk who sail and row on the Charles -- as I have done), it would be much harder to "walk on oil" than water. Water striders are kept afloat by surface tension, and oil, especially light oils that float on water, has much lower surface tension than water.

      But in any case, all MIT students need to is wait until February when the Charles generally freezes over. Shouldn't be hard to walk over that.

  • 3-link Swimmer (Score:3, Informative)

    by frantzdb ( 22281 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @10:06PM (#6790809) Homepage
    Just to save everyone the trouble, the third robot the fluids lab appears to be working on is a 3-segment swimmer [mit.edu].

  • Censored photos of waterstrider sex? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by grinchmaster ( 533271 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @10:08PM (#6790817)
    On the linked page http://www-math.mit.edu/%7Edhu/Striderweb/striderw eb.html Someone has blotted out the intimate details of the waterstriders mating ritual. Is he seriously worried about offending someone, or is he worried about hosting a porn site? Who says political correctness has gone wrong... This is just pathetic.
  • Chan designed and built a mechanical water strider. Robostrider is made out of a 7-Up can, stainless steel wire legs and an elastic band coupled to a pulley to power its middle legs. Light enough not to break through the water surface, it travels half a body length per stroke. Like its natural counterpart, Robostrider's principal means of transferring momentum is in the form of vortices shed by the rowing action.
    Can anyone say "Macguyver?" :D

    smash.

  • Creepy... (Score:5, Funny)

    by MoeMoe ( 659154 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @10:39PM (#6790986)
    Robostrider is made out of a 7-Up can, stainless steel wire legs and an elastic band coupled to a pulley to power its middle legs.

    I'm not sure what would bother me more to see upclose in the pool, a Vietnamese Water Strider, or a 7-Up can with legs...

  • Finally! (Score:3, Funny)

    by billyradcliffe ( 698854 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @10:51PM (#6791037) Homepage
    My theory that Jesus was really a robot sent from the future finally has some evidence to back it up!

  • Only in Bree (Score:5, Funny)

    by FreakerSFX ( 256894 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @10:55PM (#6791052)
    Everywhere else it's known as RoboAragorn.

  • In other news... (Score:5, Funny)

    by nacturation ( 646836 ) <nacturation@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Monday August 25, 2003 @11:20PM (#6791155) Journal
    Researchers at MIT have solved the mystery of how teenage boys satisfy themselves several times daily and in the process have created a robot called Robostroker [robostroker.com] that mimics the behavior.

  • MIT #1 my ass (Score:2, Interesting)

    by superpulpsicle ( 533373 )
    I can count more unemployed MIT grads in today's economy than hair on my head. No, I am not bald.

    It's articles like this pointing MIT #1 that forces so many employers to fear hiring these engineers nowadays. They are so smart that if they innovate something... they are considered a waste.

  • "Researchers at MIT have solved the mystery of how water striders propel themselves across water surfaces..."

    Umm, I learned this in 6th grade. It's a simple matter of surface tension and surface area. This was the same day I learned about the meniscus formed when you fill a glass to the brim with water.

  • Hmm (Score:2)

    by chrome ( 3506 )
    I, for one, welcome our new robotic overlords!
  • I was going to post an entry about "Jesus feet," big blocks of Styrofoam you can use to walk on water, but I can't find them on the Web. All the references to "Jesus feet" on Google seem to have some sort of religious slant to them.

  • Dear MIT, please consider the following projects (Score:4, Funny)

    by mabu ( 178417 ) on Tuesday August 26, 2003 @05:09AM (#6792264)
    * Playah Robot

    This automaton goes out to the clubs and picks up women and brings them back to your place. The Playah Robot never complains about getting stuck with the fat chick.

    * Voicemail Robot

    This robot will save you from wasting time in voicemail hell with your local utility company, diligently pressing 1 for English, 7 for other, 3 for other, and 0 to speak to a human, and after an hour and a half will notify you that a human has answered the phone and is ready to speak to you.

    * Alibi Robot

    This robot corroborates your story to your girlfriend that you were busy studying last Saturday night.

    * Beer Run Robot

    With alternate "Mountain Dew" plugin available.

  • With cool stuff like this, it's no wonder MIT is number one in engineering.

    Now that sounds awfully familiar... So Easy To Use, No Wonder It's Number One [aol.com]

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