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Hardware Science

Linux-Controlled Segway Robot 123

Posted by timothy from the idle-rich-adjust-the-throttle dept.
ptorrone writes "It was just a matter of time until the Segway technology would be used as a robotics platform. University of Southern California Robotics Lab's Segway RMP (Robotic Mobility Platform) has a lot of great information if you're looking to convert a Segway to a robot. On the site there are videos as well as instruction on how to build your own." Update: 07/13 21:30 GMT by T : Dr. Andrew Howard writes with an important clarification about the project: "This is *not* a standard Segway HT that we have converted to robotics applications. Rather, this is a customized, limited production unit that has been specially modified by the manufacturer. The web-site does *not* show how to convert an existing Segway HT into a robotic platform."
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Linux-Controlled Segway Robot More

Linux-Controlled Segway Robot

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  • World's most expensive consumer RC toy (Score:5, Funny)

    by curtlewis ( 662976 ) on Sunday July 13, 2003 @02:22PM (#6429264)
    Are you laughing at the economic woes of other Americans? Have plenty of money to blow?

    This THIS is the toy for you!

  • I know evrybbody has laughed at it already but.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by botzi ( 673768 ) on Sunday July 13, 2003 @02:23PM (#6429268)
    ....if there's still someone who's not seen the original presentation [segway.com] vids........You don't know what you're missing;o))

  • falling over (Score:3, Insightful)

    by spiritu ( 8757 ) on Sunday July 13, 2003 @02:23PM (#6429270)
    I particularly enjoy the shot of it falling over.

    Seriously, though. Why would you use a Segway instead of, say, a four-wheel RC car?

    • Maybe because... (Score:1, Informative)

      by botzi ( 673768 )
      ....it's ten times cheaper than the RC??
      see, why you'll use a Linux segway, that's the real question....
    • Obvious, isn't it? For the same reason that the Segway itself isn't a 4 wheeled vehicle - manuverability. Also, it can carry a lot of mass and it's CHEAP! Yes, cheap - try building a decent mobile robotic platform for less.

    • Re:falling over (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Grunhund ( 153608 )
      Partly because unlike a 4 wheeled robot, the segway is dynamically stable. It poses interesting problems as the robot falls when it is not moving unlike most 4-wheeled robots. The fact is wheeled also allows additional mobility when compared to the traditional hopping and walking dynamically stable robots.

    • Re:falling over (Score:4, Interesting)

      by jd_esguerra ( 582336 ) on Sunday July 13, 2003 @05:52PM (#6430267)
      Seriously, though. Why would you use a Segway instead of, say, a four-wheel RC car?

      Because it is easier to model and control the segway. Think of it this way: You have a robot based on the segway, and one based on a 4-wheeled rc car. They are both pointing north. Consider how much easier it is to get the segway to point south, while maintaining the same position (Just changing orientation). If the RC car had differential steering (like a tank), then yeah, you don't need a segway.

      If you look at most lab grade wheeled/tracked robots, most all have differential steering. What the segway based version has going for it is that it maintaines a constant vertial orientation--it is a stabilized inverted pendulum: It's always "righted" or "pointing up." (Well, in cases where the wheels are at the same Z, anyway.)

      From the computer vision point of view, this is really nice to have. If you had a camera mounted on any other type of robot, and wanted to visually point "out" at something, you'd need to measure the changing orintation of the robot as it clambered over objects or moved up and down hills. The most common way of doing this is to put a gyro or other angular rate sensor or inertial reference unit on the robot base, and then feed-forward the dynamics of the base to a pan/tilt type mechanism to move the camera. (All the extra work & crap required to do this would offset the cost of buying the segway, by the way...) Alternatively, you could close a loop around a video tracker to adjust pan/tilt, but that's been done before, too.

      What would be really cool would be to stabilize the segway in 2 angular degrees of freedom. Then, a vision system could be decoupled--easily-- from the robot platform in roll & pitch.(An additional single axis rotation stage could offload any yaw.)
      • The reason to use a segway is for the cool factor. Period. It's worse than other platforms in many ways, including the ones you discuss.

        As you note, it's better to use an RC tank than a car (or the higher-grade equivalent). Compared to a standard differential drive though, the Segway looses big. Consider having the robot just sit there, stationary. The segway doesn't. It must move it's wheels to maintain balance; a modeling nightmare. In any case, if you want a precise match between model and moveme
        • Consider having the robot just sit there, stationary. The segway doesn't. It must move it's wheels to maintain balance; a modeling nightmare.

          It is an inverted pendulum. Of course it has to move its wheels to maintain balance. Unless its wheels are constrained.

          I disagree it being a control nightmare. Have you ever seen an inverted pendulum? Find a video on the web. They're easy to control, and well studied. (Missiles, rockets, inverted pendulum, cart and pendulum, etc.)

          I might be wrong, but isn't the seg

  • Controlled Segway Robot? (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Like this one? [usatoday.com]

  • what I want to know is... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ubiquitin ( 28396 ) * on Sunday July 13, 2003 @02:27PM (#6429292) Homepage Journal
    Can this thing mow my grass? I wonder if the segways have enough torq to push a lawn mower.
    Anybody that has know know the answer to this? If they do, you could make a little device that it goes and attaches to which fits a lawn mower onto the segway. Add some voice recognition, and you're one "Segway, please mow my lawn." away from enjoying a lime and tonic while your grass gets cut.
    • That...

      or

      Mount the lawn mower blades in the design of a next generation of Segway, the "Lawn Care" Segway, that spins those blades at a speed comparable to whirly gigs. Just have to be careful where you go with it and don't forget the stepping off... *SLICE* *THUD* *LAWSUIT*

      ...err, on second thought, forget that idea.
    • I wonder if the segways have enough torq to push a lawn mower

      It can push a 200+ lb adult around at 15mph and you're wondering if it can move a lawn mower?
      • A typical 200 pound adult riding a segway is centered directly over the axle and actively balancing to stay there (so I understand, I've never ridden one). On the other hand, a typical lawnmower is located several feet away from the same axis of rotation. Big difference. Will there be enough weight on a typical segway to provide enough torque to actually accomplish the horizontal push you need? Easily fixed with sandbags or redesigning to put the blades directly under the wheels I suppose, though.

        I giv
        • You're missing the most interesting fact about the segway, in that the rider doesn't activly balance, the segway does. The trick to riding the things is to stop trying to balance.
          I always thought the segway looked like a push mower, and was picturing a design with the blades around the body. It'd be much cooler to just strap a segway to a regular mower though. For both designs the auto balancing isn't needed.

          • It'd be much cooler to just strap a segway to a regular mower though. For both designs the auto balancing isn't needed.

            Or a remote-controlled mower. I thought of fully automating my mower, but dealing with the safety issues of an unattended 5hp motor spinning a sharp blade isn't worth the effort for something I do about once every 10 days. However, by radio control, safety is easier to deal with and it goes from being an annoying, sweaty chore to an entertaining one. The only problem I foresee is steering

        • Re: yeah, torque is cheap (Score:4, Funny)

          by EvilAlien ( 133134 ) on Sunday July 13, 2003 @10:09PM (#6431523) Journal
          The typical adult is 200 lbs?!

          If that is the case, its time to ditch the segways and buy friggin' STAIRMASTERS.

          • Stairmasters is IMHO one of the stupidest thing in the fitness arena today.

            To quote Denis Leary:
            guy walking up to a guy on a stairmaster and asks : Where are you going?

            "i'm going up and i pay for it too, i can stay here as long as i like"
            what's next the Doormaster? i open the door ,i close the door, i open the door
          • ? Yeah, maybe you haven't checked lately, but with each generation humans are getting bigger. Hence why my dad is taller than grampa and I'm taller than my dad.

            I don't have a gut, I'm 5'11" and 200lbs. In fact most of my friends are all between 5'5" and 6'4" and are an average of 200lbs.

            So, even though I consider myself atypical, I am infact the typical North American caucasian adult male. *shrugs*

    • Why bother (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      What idiot modded this insightful? This is a much better option [robotic-lawnmower.com].
    • Robomower [robomow.com] is among one of a few companies that already make automatic lawn mowers. I'm sure these would do a better job of mowing your lawn than a hacked segway trained to push a regular lawn mower. These robot lawnmowers have all different neat features like auto-going back to the recharging station, some are solar powered, alarm features so they don't get stolen, they are quiet, etc.

    • This mowes your lawn (Score:2, Interesting)

      by milkki ( 561500 )
      Automatic solar powered lawnmower: http://www.solarmower.com/ [solarmower.com]
    • If you want to buy a robotic lawn mower. Try this link

      http://www.robotic-lawnmower.com/

      There's also another company that sells a robotic vacuum cleaner.

      http://www.roombavac.com/

  • well sign me up! (Score:4, Funny)

    by donutz ( 195717 ) on Sunday July 13, 2003 @02:31PM (#6429306) Homepage Journal
    I better add another Segway to my Amazon.com wishlist [amazon.com]: that way I can have one to drive around myself, and I can train my linux-robot-segway (I'll name him Frank) to follow me around, and guard my segway when I leave it outside as I shop. Unless I can take it into the store, in which case I'll just have to make Frank into a self-propelled grocery cart.

    Excellent!
    • and I can train my linux-robot-segway (I'll name him Frank) to follow me around

      I'll name mine Marvin and install a personality module. You never know though...it could end up being manically depressed and I'd have to carry a towel with me at all times. Now, where did I leave that guide?

      =P

      -Cyc

  • No fun (Score:4, Interesting)

    by poptones ( 653660 ) on Sunday July 13, 2003 @02:32PM (#6429310) Journal
    Why the fuck would someone want to tear apart an umpteen thousand dollar toy and, in the process, make it even more useless?

    Yeesh. Build your own balancing bot [smu.edu] and have at it. This isn't even a hack worthy of mention - it's more like a Segway sales pitch targeted at overbudgeted academics with too much time on their hands.

    • Here's a cheaper way to get a Segway [amazon.com] ;-).

    • Matt Groening's Dream Realized (Score:5, Funny)

      by Ilan Volow ( 539597 ) on Sunday July 13, 2003 @03:55PM (#6429670) Homepage

      Why the fuck would someone want to tear apart an umpteen thousand dollar toy and, in the process, make it even more useless?

      Because it puts us one step further towards the dream of robots that drink alcohol and steal things.
    • Why the fuck would someone want to tear apart an umpteen thousand dollar toy and, in the process, make it even more useless?

      Have you looked at the prices of ready-made robot platforms? $5000 or whatever isn't a lot of money for a robot platform that's self-balancing and can carry around 300 pounds or more.

      it's more like a Segway sales pitch targeted at overbudgeted academics with too much time on their hands.

      Building your own takes less time? I don't think so. Building mechanical devices is time-c
      • I thought the entier point of a hobby was to spend time with it. Your statement just furthers the point that yes, virginia, this is nothing more than a sales pitch.
        • I thought the entier point of a hobby was to spend time with it.

          Robotics research isn't a hobby, and the point of robotics research is not to "spend time with it", it's to achieve results.

          this is nothing more than a sales pitch.

          No, it's a web page from a robotics research group about a tool they use for their research. Then some Slashdot editor picked it up as a story about a nifty commercial gadget, like many other stories about nifty commercial gadgets posted on Slashdot. If you can't deal with it,

  • I just hope... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    it doesn't CRASH

    People will be dying in droves if the stability of my own Linux box is any indication.
    • Of course whether or not blame lies with the manufacturer or the software is a different issue. In the event of a crash, let's agree that when the hardware fails it will be called a segfault and when the...oh wait
    1. Get CAN equipment
    2. Build and install LAPcan drivers and CANLIB
    3. Connect CAN equipment
    4. Download CVS snapshot of Player
    5. Build Player with Segway RMP support
    6. Start Segway RMP
    7. Start Player
    8. Play!

    Yep, wasn't doing much this afternoon. Looks easy enough. Guess I'll just try it out.

  • Seems to kinda defeat the purpose... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by catbutt ( 469582 ) on Sunday July 13, 2003 @02:38PM (#6429341)
    ..since the only really impressive thing about the segway is the way it interacts with human balance. If you take the human out of the equation, the problem is just so much simpler. True, balance in a robot is a challenge in itself, but I just wouldn't start with a system whose design centers around maintaining balance with a human rider (at least if money was a factor), since you have to throw away so much of their technology.

    • Re:Seems to kinda defeat the purpose... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jericho4.0 ( 565125 ) on Sunday July 13, 2003 @02:47PM (#6429380)
      But that's what makes the segway a good choice as a platform. It's ability to support 200 lbs of shifting mass over changing terrain lets you design the rest of the robot with a lot of latitude. Building a custom platform with the same range of specs would be very expensive.
      • Okay, Maybe George Jetson has a great treadmill, which he takes his dog Astro on for a quick jog every day (depends on what this "crazy thing" is set to) for exercise, but if some folks didn't get the exercise of walking everywhere they can...
        • That 200 mark will be a little
        • low pretty soon.

        Considering this company also makes those electric scooter-style wheelchairs (which may even cost more), I think Segway's goal is to increase obesity in the world so they can sell more of these darned things.

        If yo

    • True, balance in a robot is a challenge in itself, but I just wouldn't start with a system whose design centers around maintaining balance with a human rider (at least if money was a factor), since you have to throw away so much of their technology.

      What do you have to throw away? A two-wheeled self-balancing vehicle requires the same kind of sensors, whether a human is standing on top of it or not.

      And the reason why you want a two-wheeled self-balancing robot is because it can stand up; a three- or four

  • I'd rather... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Have a how-to on turning a Segway into something that doesn't suck.
  • I used Visual Basic .NET to build MY Segway robot. These people who use Linux are nuts!
    • I just hope that the robot has enough memory for all of the huge run-time libraries, let alone the code itself.
      Aren't we up to 300k or so for a .NET hello world?

  • Catchy headline (Score:3, Insightful)

    by beaverfever ( 584714 ) on Sunday July 13, 2003 @02:42PM (#6429359) Homepage
    Please, humour me...

    Is the fact that this thing runs on Linux so important that it should lead the headline? Really, is the story about the robot or the OS it uses?

    Would there be a similar headline if it used XP or OSX?

    I'm just wonderin'.
    • OSX yes, XP no. After all, /. is pretty much stories of how Linux is used in the real world, SCO lawsuits, Windows security flaws, and how the DMCA is screwing over the world. Linux used to create text document Windows made- news at 11.
      • ..actually for the last month /. has been more like a :
        SCO lawsuits,DMCA is baaaad,SCO lawsuits,DMCA is baaaad,SCO lawsuits...
        a story of how Linux is used in the real world and then we go again with the
        SCO lawsuits,DMCA is baaaad,SCO lawsuits,DMCA is baaaad,,SCO lawsuitsSCO lawsuits...
        (here I was going to put an "a", as well, but it seemed impossible;oP) Windows security flaws,
        SCO lawsuits,SCO lawsuits,SCO lawsuits,SCO lawsuits ;o))))

    • Re:Catchy headline (Score:5, Funny)

      by arcanumas ( 646807 ) on Sunday July 13, 2003 @03:07PM (#6429470) Homepage
      This is slashdot man.
      If it run Win XP, the article would read:
      Maniacal robot running Windows XP is unleashed unto the world. How long before it kills someone?
    • Let's see, Bill Gates purchases something like 10% of a Newport News contractor and then makes sure Windows is going to be THE operating system platform for the next generation aircraft carrier. Then a bunch of press releases go out about how MS Windows is going to yada yada yada.

      So, is it better to toot your horn about something that works and works well or something that mostly sucks but you have so much money that you can buy your way into anything( including a US DOD warship )?

      LoB

  • Linux (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Fux the Pengiun ( 686240 )
    Whenever there's a story about a Segway on /., some troll asks "Yeah, but does it run Linux?" Well, buck up, buttercup, the answer is YES!
  • I guess that reduces the platforms that don't run Linux to what, Toasters and Pencil Sharpeners?

  • Silly people... (Score:3, Funny)

    by AntiOrganic ( 650691 ) on Sunday July 13, 2003 @03:01PM (#6429443) Homepage
    Dean Kamen is a robot.

    Haven't you seen his house? He has a machine shop next to his kitchen. The only plausible explanation for this is that he eats nuts and bolts.
  • somebody put their SHT to good use;) *ducks*
  • You don't want the /. effect taking a few walls and shelves with it as a rouge segway careens down the halls... unless they put a webcam on it :)
  • Even if it was controlled by Linux, do you think George Bush would be able to stay on top of it still and not fall? Check out my forums [technokev.com].
  • the top UK car (ok, automobile show) had the presenters whizzing around the studio tonight on Segways.

    While they aren't a useful and sensible mode of transport (yet), they are very good fun. Jeremy Clarkson crashed one, and swore (quite entertaining), while shortarse Hammond at the end improvised the Segway equivalent of the sand dance.

    The best thing on the show, however, pissed on the Segway in all departments - a totally mad bike-car tilting hybrid from Holland, the Carver [bbc.co.uk].

    Kamen's still cool though - I sa

  • Hmmm... this is not the only group doing this. I put my hands on another group doing exactly this couple weeks ago.

    Also got to ride a segway. I thought they were pretty lame before I tried one. Especially off road.
  • well, since it doesn't seem like an "off the shelf" segway will work with what they're doing. i'm going to make my own, most like with the combination of 2 rc devices one to turn the handle the other one to shift weight forward and back on the platform, making in autonomous will be tough, but that will be a fun puzzle once i can rc control it.

    i'll post it up on the segway journal [bookofseg.com] in the articles section, when i start.

    cheers,
    pt
  • Forget about the crappy Segway robot and check out the Segway Texas Edition [livejournal.com]
  • ... my brother is the DARPA project manager for the Segway stuff. In fact, it was his idea to explore the uses of Segway as an autonomous robot. He bought a couple dozen and spread them around to various universities, etc.

    He's been doing distributed robotics and autonomous robots for years. He's also in charge of MARS [darpa.mil], another USC robotics project. Some pretty wild stuff!
  • he really does.
    segway sucks too. :(

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