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Space Science

Most Powerful Amateur Rocket in Canada 202

Posted by michael from the good,-eh? dept.
Alex Schmidt writes "A group of Canadian 'amateur' rocketeers successfully launched a 16 1/2 foot rocket to a height of about 5500 feet. The rocket is based on the 'Dauphine' a meteorological rocket from the 1960's. The rocket weighed 300 pounds, stood 16.5 feet high and 21 inches in diameter. The motors generated 2400lbs of thrust. It successfully landed after 3 of 4 parachutes properly deployed."
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Most Powerful Amateur Rocket in Canada More

Most Powerful Amateur Rocket in Canada

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  • Engine? (Score:5, Funny)

    by mgcsinc ( 681597 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @07:22PM (#6327230)
    Did they use a "C" engine or were they able to stick a "D" in that baby?

  • Blame Canada! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Ricin ( 236107 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @07:24PM (#6327242)
    Sorry, got flashbacks from the South Park movie. I can almost see Rummy deliver the speech.

  • All your base are belong to Ontario... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 29, 2003 @07:25PM (#6327247)
    Canada has set us up the bomb!
  • I've launched 500foot and a 1000foot rockets under the Heathrow flight path, which go nowhere near the planes, but do you think anybody would mind if I launched one of these under the same route?
    • Flight path is vague. Are you in controlled airspace or not?

      If you are, then you probably can't launch. If you aren't, you should call the FAA and get them to put out a NOTAM anyway.

  • If that was in US... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 29, 2003 @07:28PM (#6327275)
    They would be arrested already, under the patriot act, for developing terrorist weapons...

  • MacKenzie Brothers in Space (Score:5, Funny)

    by AtariAmarok ( 451306 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @07:29PM (#6327277)
    Somewhere near Sudbury....

    "Hey Doug, watch me shake up this Molson's 12 pack, like, real good and hard, eh?"

    "Eh, Bob, let's open them all at once"

    WHOOSHHHH!!!!

  • In other news... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Three children, ages 7, 9, and 11 were arrested by the Department of Homeland Security on charges of "terroristic activities" for launching an unauthorized Estes model rocket with... wait for it... an explosive substance.

  • Was it really impressive? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mnmn ( 145599 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @07:30PM (#6327292) Homepage
    Am I the only one who feels the rocket should have done better than 6000 feet? In the highest amateur rocket records,Ive seen 30 kilometers for about the same size of a rocket. Maybe that was liquid propelled and multistaged.

    It was impressive though and looked like an anti aircraft missile.
  • That's taking model rocketry to a whole new level. Sounds like good fun, I'm looking forward to watching the Discovery program to find out what they used for control, etc. Sounds like it worked, and I bet it came about through a consensus process (i.e., all 4 had to agree it was ready). I wonder if they went through a no/ no-go checklist-- Controls? Go! Engine? Go! Parachutes? Go! etc.

    It's also curious to see this happening in Canada. Would DHS or the FAA allow this in the states, and what kind of permits

    • Re:Looks like good fun (Score:5, Informative)

      by mikeophile ( 647318 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @08:14PM (#6327492)
      If you want to do this in the US, here is the appropriate waiver form. [rocketlaws.org]

      You just have to make sure your launch conforms to the following regulations.

      May not be operated in a prohibited or restricted area without permission from the using or controlling agency, as appropriate [14 CFR 101.3]

      May not be operated in a manner that creates a hazard to people or property [14 CFR 101.7(a)]
      May not drop anything that creates a hazard to people or property [14 CFR 101.7(b)]
      If within a restricted area, must: [14 CFR 101.21]
      Not be operated within 1500 feet of any person or property not associated with the operations [14 CFR 101.23(g)]

      Comply with additional limitations imposed by the using or controlling agency, as appropriate. [14 CFR 101.21]

      If not within a restricted area, must: [14 CFR 101.21]
      Not operate in a manner that creates a collision hazard with other aircraft [14 CFR 101.23(a)] Not operate within controlled airspace [14 CFR 101.23(b)]

      Not operate within 5 miles of the border of any airport [14 CFR 101.23(c)]
      Not fly to altitude where cloud coverage is greater than 50% [14 CFR 101.23(d)]
      Not fly to any altitude where the visibility is less than 5 miles [14 CFR 101.23(e)]
      Not fly into any clouds [14 CFR 101.23(f)]
      Not operate closer than 1500 feet from anyone not involved [14 CFR 101.23(g)]
      Not fly between sunset and sunrise [14 CFR 101.23(h)]
      Notify the nearest FAA Air Traffic Control center 24-48 hours before the launch [14 CFR 101.25]


      In addition, your rocket itself has certain limitations.

      Section 400.2 [14 CFR 400.2], which explicitly exempts "amateur rocket activities" from these regulations.

      Section 401.5 [14 CFR 401.5], which defines "amateur rocket activities" as follows: "Amateur rocket activities means launch activities conducted at private sites involving rockets powered by a motor or motors having a total impulse of 200,000 pound-seconds or less and a total burning or operating time of less than 15 seconds, and a rocket having a ballistic coefficient--i.e., gross weight in pounds divided by frontal area of rocket vehicle--less than 12 pounds per square inch."
      BTW, the Canadian rocket had a ballistic coefficient of 6.93 lbs per square inch.
    • Controls? Go! Engine? Go! Parachutes? Go!

      Guidance? ... Guidance? ... Hello?

  • Rockets are old! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by sploxx ( 622853 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @07:33PM (#6327308)
    They are doing cool stuff!

    But this reminds me that someone should develop/build something better than rockets for reaching the space. They've been used for a too long time now.

    There are alternatives... electromagnetic propulsion, laser heated plasma propulsion etc.pp.
    It is technically feasible. But noone seems to be interested in it.
    The scientists doing such stuff are unfortunately short of money...

  • Damn, guess the invasion's off (Score:5, Funny)

    by Yo Grark ( 465041 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @07:34PM (#6327319)
    And just when I'd thought we'd finally mustered up the full might of our canadian army and air force to attack America, the parachutes deployed.

    Oh well, guess we'll continue taking over the hollywood, maple syrup conglomerate and beer industries. :P

    Yo Grark
    Canadian Bred with American Buttering.

    • Re:Damn, guess the invasion's off (Score:4, Funny)

      by Call Me Black Cloud ( 616282 ) on Monday June 30, 2003 @02:18AM (#6328836)
      Behave or we'll move one of your 6 remaining hockey teams to someplace silly like Puerto Rico.

      As this is a new "extended format" comment you are now presented deleted scenes:

      Don't make us cut off your F-18 parts supply (and who do you think you're fooling by painting cockpits on the bottom of the plane?)

      (to the tune of O Christmas Tree) O Canada O Canada / How yummy is your bacon / I eat it each and every day / Along with toast and scrambled eggs...

      Je Me Souviens this, punk.

      • Don't make us cut off your F-18 parts supply (and who do you think you're fooling by painting cockpits on the bottom of the plane?)

        Hey, the original (C)F-18 order also specified a searchlight on the side of the aircraft (so we could illuminate Soviet recon aircraft flying at the edge of our airspace) as well as the fake cockpit painted on the underside of the aircraft :-)

  • Just in case any of the crew are slashdot readers, Free Beer to you, eh!!

  • I read the article, and it seems to me that what these 4 guys did was quite impressive. The article mentions this was the largest launch in Canadian History. Anyone know what the largest anywhere was?

    What I am really happy about is the amount of publicity they got. Having the rocket being put in a museum and making a Discovery Channel special about the event is going to catch a lot of people attention. Well maybe not that many, but at least the people who care about space exploration.

    Perhaps amateurs like these guys will lead to private space travel organizations.

    • Anyone know what the largest anywhere was?

      I believe it's the Saturn V [astronautix.com] at 3,038,500 kg (I'm not sure how the mass is derived here perhaps with maximum payload and fuel?). The Energia [astronautix.com] is smaller (2,524,600 kg) with a slightly greater thrust at launch. This meant that the Saturn could lift somewhat more to orbit than the Energia. In comparison, the Shuttle [astronautix.com] is 2,029,633 kg.

    • I would guess that the Saturn V launches would be the largest ever. I'm not well versed on Russian rocketry though (or US for that matter).

    • Re:In a (vain) attempt at disscussion... (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      >> Anyone know what the largest anywhere was? If you are talking in terms of non-professional rocketry and largest altitude record, I believe it was set by Craig Snyder (US) in 2001. He used a multistage rocket (Type M engines) which reached a very respectable 34,988 ft. You can find most non-professional records here [tripoli.org].

  • They used *two* ounces of baking soda. (Score:5, Funny)

    by blair1q ( 305137 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @07:39PM (#6327339) Journal
    Cripes. I can fart olives higher than 5500 feet.

  • Uh... SI units anyone ? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by deniea ( 257313 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @07:39PM (#6327340)
    Why is the article so confusing about the units ?

    The rocket is 16 feet 1/2 foot high, diameter in inches, weight in pound as is the thrust..

    Then they move on to the landing zone, and switch to meters for that and also where the crouwd was watching, then back again to pounds..

    Confusing read..

    Why can't they stick to real scientific notations, all with SI units ??
    • Here in er, Canuckistan as I believe some of the Yanks took to calling it, most of us are able to switch effortlessly back and forth between SI and Imperial. For height and weight of things, you'll find typically find we use feet, inches, and pounds (force). You know, people, watermellon, and rockets. Most other measurements use SI. Distance, temperature, viscosity, etc. Mind you, I've never seen vehicles rated by anything other than hp and lb-ft torque. Can you imagine Watts and kN-m?
      • Can you imagine Watts and kN-m?
        In Australia, vehicles have been rated in kW and kN-M for some years now (10-15 years)

        All the car ads in the media mention vehicle specs in metric units. For example, the car (a Holden commodore) I drive has a 156kW buick-derived V6 in it, or you can get a 235kW V8.

        Whilst I can convert kW to HP fairly easily in my head, why bother when everything else on the market uses the same units these days?
    • " Why is the article so confusing about the units?"

      I'd wager because that's how the parts were measured by the manufacturer when they bought them. Sure, they could have converted to 5.5 meters high, diameter in centimeters, and thrown in some kilograms and Newtons for good measure, but why go through the trouble of converting when both they and most of their audience know what inches and pounds are?

      "Why can't they stick to real scientific notations, all with SI units ??"

      Why should they? Most of us N

  • Attack Of The Clones? (Score:5, Funny)

    by WIAKywbfatw ( 307557 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @07:40PM (#6327343) Journal
    Is it me or do the three guys pictured in the article look like they're identical? I mean, even their baseball caps, t-shirts and footwear are the same and their only distinguishing features are their trousers - presumably so that they can tell each other apart.

    Hmmm, clones with rockets. Where have I heard that before?

    • Which proves (Score:3, Funny)

      by geekoid ( 135745 )
      my throy tha the alledged country 'Canada' is actually a place where world power conduct rogue sciencintific experments.
      All for the sole purpose of:
      CATCHING FAIRY GODPARENTS!!

      • You're almost right. When you have about a billion square miles (about a billion square kilometers if you like metric ;-) of wilderness, anyone can conduct rogue scientific experiments. Heck, with a little remote launch equipment, you could probably send off live missles and they wouldn't be able to figure out who it was. I'm sure this will get flagged by the U.S., and Canada will be told to maintain proper vigilance over all potential launch sites, or the Americans will have to send troops into all remo
    • Cloning is still legal in Canada, eh!

      --jeff++
    • It's hard to tell but these guys look like they are from the Doug McKenzie [geocities.com] line. The Bob's are generally much thinner.

  • Mission (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "Mission Accomplished: Blastoff was a real blast for four Calgary"

    hrm.. shouldn't that be lift off? I can imagine "Blasting" is not something they would want to have happen.
    • I can imagine "Blasting" is not something they would want to have happen.

      You obviously haven't met anyone from Calgary...
  • Does anyone think that this guy [canada.com] is enjoying his work a little too much?
  • These guys [gbrocketry.com] were mentioned on /. several months ago. They have been doing launches with video cameras for a while. The videos are very impressive.

  • Project website... (Score:4, Informative)

    by el33thack3r ( 579883 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @08:17PM (#6327507)
    Project Dauphin website is here [members.shaw.ca].

  • False Positive on missile defense (Score:4, Interesting)

    by rodney dill ( 631059 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @08:20PM (#6327515) Journal
    Sounds like an invitation for NORAD to fire on Canada.

    Seriously, just how big and how high do these missiles have be, before they attract military attention of an undesired nature.
    • You are aware, I hope, that Canada is involved in NORAD? The North American Aerospace Defense Command. NORAD Quickfacts [www.cbc.ca]
      • Yes I am aware of that, the first part of my comment was somewhat facetious. I suppose most of the NORAD radar systems to be somewhat north of anywhere that an amateur launch would take place, as I believe they mainly watched for an attack of the North Pole.

        I do think that given the current world situation and the dim view given to anything resembling a terrorist attack that launching 16 foot rockets, even in a secluded area, would eventually attract some scrutiny.
        • I suppose most of the NORAD radar systems to be somewhat north of anywhere that an amateur launch would take place, as I believe they mainly watched for an attack of the North Pole.

          An attack *of* the North Pole? No.
          An attack *from* the North Pole?. No.
          An attack coming over the North Pole, yes. OTH radar. But also, they watch potential launch sites on the ground as well. Any missile launch generates a big heat plume. Much better to know as it is leaving the silo, rather than 1/2 way to its target.

          And ye
    • and not from Canada.
    • You're assuming that they didn't see it!!!??? They track golfballs in Earth Orbit. I think that (provided it got over the radar horizon) that the saw this too...

  • Michael Moore Movie (Score:3, Funny)

    by rodney dill ( 631059 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @08:23PM (#6327532) Journal
    It'll be in his next movie, that Michael Moore was able to purchase one of these, with out registration, at a Tim Hortons.

  • 5500 feet? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Wow, 5500 whole feet ?

    I reached about that in 1988 with a 4-stage model rocket using Estes "D" engines.

    Good to see the Canadians finally catching up to us in hobbyist technology.

    As far as reaching LEO, they're about 2% of the way there. This sure is front page news!

  • In other news... (Score:5, Funny)

    by kevlar ( 13509 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @08:54PM (#6327656)
    In other news...

    Djibouti constructed its largest steam powered tractor. Its expected to till 40 tons of soil a year.
  • About 5 seconds before I hit slashdot I wrote an email to my old high school physics teacher about a project I'm thinking of to use a model rocket to measure wind currents as the rocket decends.

    It's been a -long- time since I launched a model rocket, but I was assuming that 2,000 feet would be -easy- and that 10,000 feet possible. Apparently not.

    Heck, I should make an 'Ask Slashdot' about this one. Shoot rocket to insane heights (apparently) and measure what the wind is doing every 50-100 feet on the wa
    • Perhaps a weather balloon with GPS would better suit your needs - there was an article here a few months back about a person who built one with a single board computer + GPS + radio link fairly cheap. His reached 30,000ft+ pretty quickly (1/2 hr?) and had a rope cutter to drop the package back down at a preset height.
  • Ever since the model rocket hobby was attacked by the 'homeland security department', things like this are no longer possible 'down here'.

    Bah.

  • Bush Doctrine (Score:5, Funny)

    by fruity1983 ( 561851 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @10:30PM (#6328034)
    We cannot entertain the threat that Canada's new missile technology poses. Canada, you must immediately relent to weapons inspections. Your aggression will not be tolerated.
  • I think I can get something to help you do that... let me check my deleted mail folder. I am sure I saw something about that somewhere...

  • Most Powerful Amateur in Canada (Score:5, Funny)

    by jamonterrell ( 517500 ) on Sunday June 29, 2003 @10:45PM (#6328082)
    "16.5 feet ... 21 inches in diameter ... 2400lbs of thrust"

    I just got this same spam last week in my inbox.
  • I attended a lecture by a bay area ameteur rocketry group. In their presentation they said HLS act might kill the hobby. Maybe Canada can continue. I am not against such laws per se, since we are dealing with extremely powerful machines that can wreak havoc if used with wrong intentions, but I wonder the future of amateur rocketry in present circumstances.

  • Misunderstanding (Score:2, Informative)

    by megabyte405 ( 608258 )
    Pardon me if I'm wrong, but I'm noticing a fair amount of "woohoo, I reached 5500 feet with [insert hobby rocket engine here]". However, if you read the article, or think about the Slashdot article, you'll notice that it's not the height that's important, it's the thrust. Most powerful, not highest flying.
  • I have the largest rocket in my bedroom.
  • You know, I initially misread that as "A group of Chinese 'amateur' rocketeers successfully launched...". Signs of the times I guess.

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