Computers and Carpal Tunnel Syndrome Studied 365
pioneer writes "An article on MSNBC.com reports that a Danish study has found that computer use is not a significant risk factor for carpal tunnel syndrome. Not sure about you, but I spent a lot of time learning dvorak and kinesis to prevent just that... the 'inevitable' onslaught of RSI/carpal tunnel/etc."
Dutch study? (Score:5, Informative)
CTS != RSI (Score:5, Informative)
Heavy computer use: 7 hours a day? (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know about you, but my computer usage averages about 10 hours a day. However, I don't know if I actually type for 7 hours out of the ten, after factoring in meetings and other productivity boosters.
I worry more about my eyes than wrists. I may not be typing 100 wpm constantly, but I am looking at my monitors even when not typing.
Re:Not Ineveitable (Score:5, Informative)
I seriously question this study - I've seen numerous fellow employees at various companies who have dealt with their RSI problems in different ways. (Here's one tip for managers: raise the temperature! Sitting in a cold draft only worsens things).
Re:As I write this... (Score:3, Informative)
IANAD.
Do what? (Score:2, Informative)
It has occured to me that all these people are females in their 40's or 50's, who are generally receptionists, keying in data whilst on the phone.
I've had a mild case & switching to one of the specialist keyboards has helped. I use a Fingerworks [fingerworks.com] TouchStream ST - excellent but it takes some getting used to, is a right old pain if you work in the UK and need to use the £ sign (character map etc etc).
The mouse thing is interesting - I have found that most problems occur in the hand that isn't using the mouse, as it's being lifted of the keyboard whilst mousing.
Re:As I write this... (Score:1, Informative)
According to your logic, if I said that smoking wasn't associated with rabies (a type of disease), I'd be saying that smoking wasn't associated with any diseases at all. But It's perfectly possible to claim smoking isn't associated with rabies but is associated with a wide variety of other diseases.
Please use logic more carefully.
Re:Not Ineveitable (Score:3, Informative)
Some things include factors such as your own work habits. For instance, do you take breaks from the keyboard and mouse? I take a break every couple of hours to stretch my legs, otherwise I start to get that cramps in my legs from sitting for too long. This is *good* for the wrists and highly encouraged by doctors to avoid RSIs such as CTS. Also the *size* of ones wrists could be a factor -- people with larger wrists have larger nerve pathways, and hence (possibly) a decreased risk for nerves getting pinched. I have large wrists -- so large in fact that many bracelets will not fit me.
Re:phew that's a relief... (Score:1, Informative)
Clarification of CTS versus RSI (Score:2, Informative)
RSI is basically tendinitis. There are a million causes for it and it is hard to track down. If you get it, you have to spend a good deal of time tracking down exactly where the cause is.
Both are awful to have. But you can't appreciate the pain until you get it. It is disabling...try to get through your day without hands. Driving, eating, washing...all the basic necessities hurt like hell.
Computer use is certainly a good aggravator, but you can get it from a variety of ways. It is very much a black science when you go to the doctor. Some people have the most awful ergonomics but suffer nothing, while people with perfect ergonomics get it.
Re:Not Ineveitable (Score:5, Informative)
Same symptoms as Carpal Tunnel, different reason.
Remapping much used keys (Score:2, Informative)
is a lot I know. And a few months ago I got a pain in my left wrist, so I stopped and actualy took some sick leave.
But even after a week it still was painfull to type, so I tried to find out why and I located the problem to using the ctrl key, which made my hand strain (especialy the ctrl-b and ctrl-f combinations).
The solution was rather simple, I remamped my ctrl key to the caps-lock key (old keyboards actualy had the ctrl key there). And I disabled the old ctrl key so that I would unlearn to use it.
The next day and ever since I'm typing happely again. Except, I get confused when I have to type on some one elses workstation
BTW I already had the caps-lock disabled anyway, because I mostly use vi and it is rather anoying to see your lines joined instead of moving downwards, when you accidentaly have activated the caps-lock.
will somebody explain to me (Score:3, Informative)
Biggest contributer to my CT: the Mac "puck" (Score:3, Informative)
Of course, now I use trackballs almost exclusively, so it doesn't matter as much. Optical trackballs are SO nice!
Re:Do you exercise? (Score:2, Informative)
How to recover or avoid... (Score:1, Informative)
Using my new touchpad (synaptics is better for linux, mine isn't) and the smart-gloves from imakproducts.com (after reading about them in
So... here's the prescription
* Sit straight
* Less hours
* Touchpad
* Smart Gloves
* Ergonomic keyboard
* Sports
* Increase room temp.
* Go for a break often, never continue working with pain
* Sue your insurance
* Eat stuff that is good for the liver (less alcohol then). Liver is the source of energy for the tendons.
*
No brainer - its not what you type on, its how (Score:3, Informative)
I've used computers since I got my commodore 64 a little more than 15 years ago. Never had a problem, until this year.
This year, I sliced open one of my fingers bad. The bandage I was wearing changed my typing position, and within the 12 or so days I had the bandages on, my wrists started hurting and my fingers tingled. The bandage and wrist pain is gone now, but my fingers still do tingle on occasion.
Speaking from Personal Experience (Score:5, Informative)
Thanks to her help i'm getting better, however, and can offer this advice:
- find the working position that is optimal for muscle relaxation. I have two desks put together in an "L" shape with an armless chair, so i can rest my elbows up at the level of the keyboard. What kills your muscles is having them flexed (even gently) for a long period of time.
- stretch every 30-60 minutes. I do these three forearm stretches and find them very effective:
1. Hold your arm straight out. Bend your hand forward at the wrist, pulling it with your other hand until you feel a gentle stretch. Hold it for at least 30 seconds (it takes at least this long for muscle fibers to get the hint and release.
2. do the same thing bending your hand backwards.
3. this one is more complicated but is really the money stretch: hold your arm straight out in front of you, make a fist with your hand and hold it tight. Rotate your arm to that the thumb-side of your fist is facing outward. Now grab the fist with your other hand and pull it down and outwards, simultaneously bending the wrist and rotating the arm further. If done properly you should feel a nice stretch all through your forearm. Be gentle: it's more important to hold it longer than to push it harder.
If you're a Canadian living in Ontario or BC, you can go see a Registered Massage Therapist - they do wonders, and can give you advice on stretching and posture. Also Active Release Therapy (or ART,) which is provided by certain RMT's and Chiropractors, is pure gold for more serious problems. I don't know what regulatory bodies exist in the states, but i know that in Canada's unregulated provinces (everywhere but BC and Ontario) a lot of massage workers are either foofie-lala new age aromatherapy types or borderline sex industry workers, as opposed to genuine health care providers - so be careful.
Don't forget shoulder & neck posture (Score:3, Informative)
Through some Alexander technique [alexandertechnique.com] and structural integration [rolfguild.org] work (i.e., rolfing), I'm finally better.
Whereas my regular doctor blamed computer usage and recommended I take off a few months from work, my PT believes this my symptoms were caused by poor posture over a lifetime - shoulders drooping forward, neck dropping forward. I believe the PT more than my doctor. (I have since changed doctors.)
CTS is not a repetitive strain injury.... (Score:1, Informative)
* Numbness or pain in your hand, forearm, or wrist that awakens you at night.
* Occasional tingling, numbness, "pins-and-needles" sensation, or pain. The feeling is similar to your hand falling asleep.
* Numbness or pain that worsens while using your hand or wrist, especially when gripping an object with your hand or bending (flexing) your wrist.
* Occasional aching pain in your forearm between your elbow and wrist.
Here are a couple medical journal articles from several years ago, non-Danish in origin, that detail some of the risk factors of CTS:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.
Briefly, in case you're not on a network with access to the full text of those articles, analysis of over 5000 patients showed no correlation between type of employment and CTS. Risk factors included thyroid disease, obesity, and a "square" shape to the wrist. Simply put, conditions that contribute to elevated levels of intra-articular fluid, and skeletal structure that elevates the pressures of those fluids on the median nerve, will contribute to the occurrence of CTS.
Sounds like poor experimental design and analysis (Score:2, Informative)
5% risk, huh? Wow, that sure is small! Oh wait, they don't cite the baseline incidence, so who knows if its all that small. 5% could be a 300% greater risk for all we know.
No signifiant relationship between more than 20 hours of use of a keyboard? Great news, for me: I work 60 hours a week with a keyboard! Oh wait, they neglected to analyze the subset of individuals like me. Talk about a low powered measure and analysis. Did they even look at the distribution? I bet there's a slight skew.
Well I'm glad the numbness in my palm isn't caused by my excessive computer use. Then what the hell is causing it? I sit on my butt all day and sleep on my back all night! What else could it be?
Seriously, until every scientist on Earth is forced to pass a course on psychometrics, this kind of research gets us nowhere. Statistics is a garbage in, garbage out practice.
Re:Not Ineveitable (Score:2, Informative)
-Randy
Re:Typing doesn't cause RSI (Score:3, Informative)
Dude, you are wrong (Score:2, Informative)
My RSI (a tendinitis, not carpal tunnel) hit me out of the blue when I was 26, and I've never been the same since. Perhaps an infection rendered my tendon sheaths fragile for a few days, or for some reason my collagen production decreased temporarily. But whatever the cause, I was past the point of no return in no time flat. The change was so abrupt that it may not have been possible to avoid at all.
Re:With all due respect... (Score:2, Informative)
The best thing you can do to prevent RSI is take breaks on the computer and do aerobic exercise. Swimming, walking and elliptical stationary machines are the best, from my experience.
As for the original post, it's inhuman what the US does to meat processing workers. Unfortunately, being white doesn't make my now purple hands feel any better. Everyone needs access to affordable healthcare, physical therapy, and preventative medicine. The current administration's gutting OSHA and undermining its ergonomics recommendations was a terrible blow to everyone.
Re:Not Ineveitable (Score:2, Informative)
You are right in pointing out that leaning on the elbow will inflame the ulnar nerve, but I don't lean on my elbows when I type (and I'm careful not to at any other time) and I'm really hurting from this. Just having the elbows bent aggravates the problem. I lowered my keyboard (to lower the angle of my arms when typing) and that has helped, but frankly, I am on the verge of quitting my job because of it. When I type, it hurts, and when I stop, it goes away.
Re:Not Ineveitable (Score:2, Informative)
Re:DVORAK is crap? (Score:1, Informative)
For example, I copy-pasted thatguywhoiam's post into the applet. It reported that having been typed using QWERTY, thatguywhoiam's fingers moved about 24.4 meters while composing his post. On the other hand, had he used Dvorak instead his fingers would have travelled significantly less, about 14.3 meters.
The applet also gives some other interesting stats, such as the usage of home row letters under the two keyboards (63% Dvorak versus only 31% QWERTY for thatguywhoiam's post).
Finally, the applet's author even includes a link to the source code if you're so inclined.
Cool, eh?