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Space Science

Window on Mars - Can Orobes Dig Out More Info? 118

Posted by Hemos from the digging-deeply dept.
OldTurkeyBuzzard writes " All telescopes are tuned to Mars as it draws nearer Earth than at any time in recorded history. The record-setting date is Aug. 27...... This newspaper article throws more light on the efforts to gather more information about the red planet when it approaches very close to us. "
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Window on Mars - Can Orobes Dig Out More Info? More

Window on Mars - Can Orobes Dig Out More Info?

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  • not mars! (Score:5, Funny)

    by sweeney37 ( 325921 ) * <mikesweeney.gmail@com> on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:32AM (#6040007) Homepage Journal
    How can people not see that Microsoft is a Monopoly?! Now Bill is going after the Martians!

    What?

    Oh wait... shit.

    Mike

  • Maybe They Fill Find (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    the satellite we slammed into the surface a few years ago!

    or, since its so close, hit em with another one!

  • Let's hope (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anti Frozt ( 655515 ) <chris.buffett@gmai l . c om> on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:34AM (#6040014)

    "If everything goes as planned, by January 2004 there will be a total of seven spacecraft sniffing around Mars."

    Let's hope those little green men have a concept of deoderant or NASA is going to be in for a real surprise.

    • Lets hope they have armpits first.

    • Re:Let's hope (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I think the late, great Douglas Adams put it best in the introduction to "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe." There's this little blurb about an alien race:

      "Many races believe that [the Universe] was created by some sort of God, though the Jatravartid people of Viltvodle VI believe that the entire Universe was in fact sneezed out of the nose of a being called the Great Green Arkleseizure. The Jatravartids, who live in perpetual fear of the time they call The Coming of The Great White Handkerchief

  • Not to be cheesy, but... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Paddyish ( 612430 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:35AM (#6040016)
    I think this is a pretty big missed opportunity to actually send a manned mission to Mars. It won't be any closer for a _long_ time...

    • Actually .. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ethnocidal ( 606830 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:39AM (#6040027) Homepage
      You'd want to be closest when the astronauts were coming back. It's (relatively) easy to launch them with lots of fuel and supplies to get there, but it's simply not possible to launch similar amounts from the surface of Mars. Ideally, the astronauts would be coming back around August 27th, not launching on their way there with a long journey back.

      • Re:Actually .. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by little1973 ( 467075 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @11:09AM (#6040369)
        This is not so simple. You do not travell to Mars from Earth and vice versa in a straight line. It's more like a spiral which means you will circle the sun at least once to reach Mars. I think the most important thing is the turn around time of the communication. So, you want Mars to be closest when the astronaunts on Mars, because communication turn around is less than 7 minutes in such a case.
        • *sigh* Spiral= bad.
          holman orbit=elliptical= lowest energy orbit= happy engineers because you don't have to waste all your mass on fuel. And for an elliptical orbit you'd still want to go at about the time Mars is closest- you want to treat both Mars and Earth as the focii for the ellipse.
        • It's more like a spiral which means you will circle the sun at least once to reach Mars.

          While circling around the sun (sling-shotting) works great for unmanned probes like Voyager, it is not feasible for a manned mission because it adds time to mission schedule. More time in space = more fuel requirements + more supplies for the astronauts >> more fuel again.

          Communications will always be delayed so difference between a close Mars and a farther away Mars will be miniscule. The distance to travel is

      • Have the return craft circling the planet, so you don't have to takeoff with so much fuel.

        It is still costly (take the fuel all the way there), but much less.

    • It's no accident there are so many Mars missions occurring simultaneously.

      The mass exodus to Mars has been strategically planned over many years to make the best of the closest opposition of Mars in more than 60,000 years.

      Not manned missions, but then again, we arent ready for one yet.

    • I have seen what the trajectory for a mission to mars would be like - It makes no difference that mars is closer to earth, because the spacecraft cannot fly in a straight line between the two worlds unless we managed to develop a far more powerful propulsion system. You have to fly in a spiral trajectory around the sun that would only intercept mars after a year, and spend a year or so on the planet to wait for earth to be in the right position for the return flight. You would then leave mars to orbit around the sun, firing thrusters in reverse to spiral in an intercept the earth after another year or so. The total mission time would run from 3 to 5 years.

      That is why going to mars is so much harder than going to the moon. The astronauts have to be kept alive and sane for years, not weeks as was the case with Apollo.

    • Re:Not to be cheesy, but... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Beryllium Sphere(tm) ( 193358 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @12:35PM (#6040736) Journal
      If you want to minimize fuel use, a straight line is not the best way to change orbits. You want to time your launch so that a minimum-energy trajectory (http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/HohmannTr ansferOrbit.html) intercepts Mars.

  • I propose.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by dukerobillard ( 582741 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:37AM (#6040022)
    ...a party at Grover's Mill! [btinternet.com]

  • Recorded History? (Score:1, Informative)

    by jeffasselin ( 566598 )
    Doesn't recorded history start a few thousand years ago? We have some records from the Sumerians, and history became a science in the Greco-Roman period.

    Astronomy and astronomical records are known to have existed during that period, although reliable ones can be said to exist only since Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo.

    Maybe you should have said "in recent history", or "in modern history". That would have been a lot more accurate!

    • Re:Recorded History? (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Or just saying "The closest it's been in 60,000 years" would have been just as good.

      Least the comparison didn't use VWs, football fields or libraries of congress.

      "Mars will appear the closest it's been since... well, since as long as it would take to read the library of congress ago"
      • Oops looks like someone forgot to do NASA approved public relations unit conversion. So let me take a stab at it...

        Mars Mass =~ 6.4185E21 VWB's (VolksWagen Bugs)
        Orbital Distance (near) 5.9602E9 FbF's (Football Feilds)
        Orbital Distance (far) 43.887E9 FbF's
        Data Collection* =~ 127E-3 LoC's (Library's of Congress)

        Enjoy the bliss of understanding with "real world" reference units
        That lame scientific crap can be found here [nasa.gov]


        * denotes a number pulled out of my ass

    • Re:Recorded History? (Score:5, Informative)

      by s20451 ( 410424 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:49AM (#6040072) Journal
      Read the article, it says that this is the closest approach in 60,000 years. Unless you count cave art as recorded history, the article is accurate.

  • Good to see (Score:2, Insightful)

    by nich37ways ( 553075 )
    It is nice to see that we are still going out into space and even more importantly undertaking useful missions, instead of just sticking a couple of Astronauts into space because we can.

  • Picture of Earth and Moon from Mars (Score:4, Interesting)

    by rodney dill ( 631059 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:40AM (#6040033) Journal
    The picture has already been referenced by /. and a bunch of other resources, but the Astronomy Picture of the Day [nasa.gov] has a nice blow up of the picture today.


    Beware this is just a distraction, with all eyes towards Mars, Venus is planning a sneak attack!

  • Orobes, huh? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:41AM (#6040034)
    At least they're not sending probes. That would be offensive.

  • How close? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by inaeldi ( 623679 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:41AM (#6040036)
    I couldn't find anything in the article, but does anyone know just how close it's going to be compared to usual? Just because it's the closest in 60,000 years or whatever it is doesn't mean that the majority of people could even notice a difference.

    • Re:How close? (Score:5, Informative)

      by pcrook345 ( 410396 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:57AM (#6040102)
      ...does anyone know just how close it's going to be compared to usual?

      Loads of info (sky maps, viewing charts, other graphics) in Where is Mars Now? [space.com] at space.com.

      A couple of choice quotes:

      "As of May 15, the Red Planet is about 82 million miles (133 million kilometers) from Earth."

      "On Aug. 27, 2003, Mars will be less than 34.65 million miles (55.76 million kilometers) away -- closer to our planet than it's been in nearly 60,000 years."
    • I couldn't find anything in the article, but does anyone know just how close it's going to be compared to usual? Just because it's the closest in 60,000 years or whatever it is doesn't mean that the majority of people could even notice a difference.

      At it's closest it will be approximately 1.4 feet away.

      RUUUUUUNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!

  • Windows on Mars? (Score:5, Funny)

    by H3lm3t ( 209860 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:43AM (#6040043) Homepage
    Windows on Mars? Will that result in a Red Screen of Death (RSOD) or do we have to refer to it as the Blue Planet in the future?

  • Tuning in (Score:3, Interesting)

    by stray ( 73778 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:43AM (#6040046) Homepage

    All telescopes are tuned to Mars [..]


    not to pick nits, but can you "tune" a telescope to mars? is that what they do with radio telescopes?

    • They type very fast, so they can put the article in before the spell-checker kicks in. I guess they meant "turned" instead of "tuned". And "probes" instead of "orobes" of course.

  • Mars Attracts!! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by moehoward ( 668736 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:44AM (#6040048)
    Will there be any noticeable gravitational effects near Earth? Moon? Asteroids? Space junk?

    I guess I'm asking if there is any remotely-possible-disaster angle that the press will be able to play up on this. 2 years ago, we had the summer of the shark. I'd love to see this summer be "The Summer of Colliding Worlds". We need something. Hollywood is going all sequel on us this year.

    • Re:Mars Attracts!! (Score:5, Funny)

      by richie2000 ( 159732 ) <rickard.olsson@gmail.com> on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:57AM (#6040101) Homepage Journal
      Hollywood is going all sequel on us this year.

      Yeah, Mars Attacks Again, Mission to Mars Revisited, National Lampoon's Vacation to Mars, Lord of the O-Rings - The Two Launches, Star Wars XVI - Attack of the Green Clowns, 2003 - A Space Affair, Star Trek 12 - In Search Of A Borg Franchise, Die Hard IX - Yeehaa, Martians! and, finally, the new version of that old TV show My Friend Martian starring Wil Wheaton.

      • Don't forget "The Marstrix Reloaded" which has just been released.

      • Re:Mars Attacks Again (Score:2, Informative)

        by reezle ( 239894 )
        I googled the "Mars Attacks", but could find a lot of info on the sequel film that's in the works... Supposedly Warner Bros has put up $45mil for it, but I can't find a damn thing on "The WarnerBros" [warnerbros.com] website.

        The original didn't do so well in the box office, but it seems to have caught on as a cult hit. Most everybody I know has seen in on DVD or tape. I saw a link here (or perhaps on Some other news site [fark.com] for the complete set of images of the original trading cards, and had them printed up on card s

  • George Bush Trying to Get Home (Score:5, Funny)

    by hillct ( 230132 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:44AM (#6040052) Homepage Journal
    There has been much political debate of this issue however, may I be the first to say that NASA should spend any amount of money needed to help George W. Bush get home. Now is the time, as mars grows closer to earth than it has in recorded history, we must act quickly to help the gramatically challenged one. If you don't believe me, here's the proof:
    With all the partisan politics around these days, let us all agree on one thing. We should help this pittifull little martian get home.

    --CTH

  • An orobe... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Is that like golden probe?

  • thanks i have my tin-foil cap ready (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    it is a very short distance and you never know what are those little green men sending through space...
  • there are relatively close Martian approaches on a regular basis.

    Tell me about it. The other day, there was this guy...

  • Windows on Mars? (Score:5, Funny)

    by colonelteddy ( 556564 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @09:57AM (#6040103) Journal
    PLEASE: Can't we get it working on Earth first?

    I can only assume Orobes is the latest codename for the 128bit windows AE (AlienEdition).

    Or do you mean that we are going to send all the copies of windows to Mars? I've never been a fan of using space as a giant garbage dump, but in this case....

    • forget sending copies of Windows, lets Send Bill G, and the rest of his cronies over.

      Heck - lets tell the DCMA and RIAA people that we are detecting illicit filesharing occuring through the ether.

      One way ticket?
  • Note the clever use of 'O' instead of the letter following 'O' to get the headline through the TrendMicro 'letter after O' filter re : http://slashdot.org/article.plsid=03/05/23/0521222 &mode=thread&tid=126&tid=128

  • Orobes? (Score:1, Funny)

    by danimrich ( 584138 )
    I hope they're more careful about what they type when they program their probe. And stay with metric units, too.

  • Beagle 2 (Score:5, Informative)

    by Aardpig ( 622459 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @10:05AM (#6040125)

    I think that, out of all the missions the article mentions, Mars Express [esa.int] is the most exciting. This mission, which is backed by the European Space Agency [esa.int] (rather than NASA, as the article implies), carries the British-built Beagle 2 [beagle2.com] lander, targeted at looking for evidence for Martian life, past and present. Beagle 2 (named after Charles Darwin's ship) is far more sensitive than the old Viking Missions [nasa.gov], which were the first (and so far, the only) missions to look for life. It's worth noting that the more-recent Pathfinder [nasa.gov] mission was a proof-of-concept for the two upcoming Mars Exploration Rovers [nasa.gov], which are for geological surveys rather than life searches.

    One partcularly cool feature of Beagle 2 is its "Mole [beagle2.com]", which can crawl across the surface (at 1cm/s) and burrow imto the ground or under boulders. The Mole will be able to take samples from locations which the Viking landers couldn't reach; these samples may provide conclusive evidence that life once existed on Mars.

    Mars Express, carrying Beagle 2, is due to blast off from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan on June 2. Fingers crossed!

  • Misdirected Efforts (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Ignorant Aardvark ( 632408 ) * <cydeweys.gmail@com> on Monday May 26, 2003 @10:05AM (#6040128) Homepage Journal

    Mars is all well and good, but I really think we should be focusing on the Moon! Mars is so much farther away it takes half a year to get there. The Moon, on the other hand, only takes two days. And if anything goes wrong, the Moon is actually close enough we might be able to get there in time to do something about it.

    I don't see a problem with sending "orobes" to Mars, because it's always good to know something just for the sake of knowing, but knowledge of the Moon is much more practical. We've had the technology for decades to establish a Lunar colony . Why didn't we? There's water, and therefore oxygen, and most of the metals you could possibly desire all on the Moon. We should establish a Lunar colony first, and then worry about manned missions to Mars.



    A space elevator wouldn't hurt either.
    • We've explored less than 2% of the ocean floor on this planet so far. Why go to the moon or mars when there is all that to explore first?

      Or we could shrink ourselves and explore other people's inner ears!
    • And to cut the costs for transporting to and from the moon, we could use a system with three or four huge spaceships that would never land, but rather travel in a similar trajectory as the Apollo ships did. Then, when you want to send something from Earth to the moon, just launch it to dock with the spaceship. Kinda like having trains where you throw the stuff onto it without the train ever stopping. Then when it arrives at the moon, just undock the module then land it on the moon. This way you could transp
      • you would still have to accelerate the stuff we want to send to the moon to the same speed as the 'trains' that goes inbetween them, otherwise there will be some, eh, unpleasant, sudden acceleration/deceleration when the ships hook into each other.
        • Yeah the "trains" would have to adjust its speed and trajectory when they know how much the total mass will change, probably before it goes around the moon. But I wonder if the whole arrangement still wouldn't be cheaper after all?
          • you would still have to use the same amount of fuel though, since it's the acceleration/deceleration that needs it. THe trip between the earth and the moon is 'free' so to say, you just glide along. Mind you if you're moving people, youwouldn't need to facilitate all the stuff that's needed in the launch vehicle, all that can be in the 'trains' which can be reused.
      • The cargo still has to be spaceworthy in order to get onto your transporters, you still need to get enough fuel into orbit to provide the kinetic energy to transport each piece of cargo to the moon. In addition, you have to get your huge spaceships into the required trajectory. So what is the point in the huge spaceships?
        • My idea, which may be wrong since I'm not a physicist, is that the big transporters would be set on the 8-shaped trajectory only once. It could use the gravity of the moon or earth like a slingshot to accelerate, in addition to that it would need fuel to adjust its trajectory. Could this work in any way? Would it be economical?
          • You're missing the point. You either have to accelerate the payload to the same velocity as the spaceship, in which case it will make it to the moon on it's own, or you just put it in the path of the space ship, and let the momentum of the spaceship accelerate it. In the latter case, the spaceship loses energy, and eventually crashes into either the moon or the earth. Either way, in order to keep the system working, you have to use the same amount of energy as you would to just send the payload to the mo
            • Well you are right of course, and I didn't think things through completely, it seems. Heh.
            • The ships can gain energy from the gravity fields of Earth and Moon? like how the past orobes got it from Jupiter. If they knew they were going to be accelerating payloads, they could attack the fields more aggressively than if they were just going to sit in a stable orbit ?

              (I dont know, just guessing here..)
    • I don't see a problem with sending "orobes" to Mars

      I think we'll cultivate a lot more good will if we send "oreos" to Mars. Especially double-stuff.

      A space elevator wouldn't hurt either.

      I used to think the space elevator was a silly idea, or at least a not-any-time-soon idea, and that we should tinker with tethers or J. Storrs-Hall's space dock idea [imm.org] in the nearer term. But I started reading the info [highliftsystems.com] (most of the technical issues are treated in essays in the "Downloads" section of the website) and it's

  • So this is what all the crashed probes were running.

  • Doh! Where are the dragons! (Score:5, Funny)

    by genomancer ( 588755 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @10:27AM (#6040185)
    We haven't managed to genetically engineer flying, firebreathing lizards yet.. let alone ones that can teleport.. if the red planet is on it's aproach, we're screwed!

    Oh.. sorry.. red planet, not moon.

    G
    • Just wait until Mozilla becomes self aware...

      I hope you all realize what will happen then. If not, allow me to quote:

      "And the beast shall come forth surrounded by a roiling cloud of vengeance. The house of the unbelievers shall be razed and they shall be scorched to the earth. Their tags shall blink until the end of days."

      - from The Book of Mozilla, 12:10

      I especially fear the blinking tags! :-o
    • Oh.. sorry.. red planet, not moon.

      Red planet, red moon, it's still better than the Red Star.

  • Windows on Mars? Hope they will get the units in order this time! LOL! Not that it matters, cause it will crash anyway! Hahahaha! And then it will be a BLUE planet! Get it? Not a red planet, but BLUE, because of BLUE screen of death! Oh god, I can't believe how funny and original I am. Probably because I'm NOT.

  • Mars slashdotted? (Score:4, Funny)

    by tomrud ( 471930 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @11:01AM (#6040332)
    With all theese telescopes pointing at Mars, wouldn't Mars be slashdotted?

  • I am happy to see that of the several projects heading to make this window, they are all focusing on different aspects of mars research. I would hate to see the effort of more then one group on the same 'problem', it would be a terrible waste of resources.

    On another note, it's nice to see some more world involvement in space/mars research. More eyes, and maybe even more important differently organized eyes looking at Mars will only improve our results. It's very reasuring to see.

  • Martians possess WMD (Score:5, Funny)

    by Alien Being ( 18488 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @11:19AM (#6040408)
    A source close to the Pentagon claims to have seen evidence of a Martian plot to destroy vital U.S. interests around the globe. He spoke to us on the condition that we refer to him only as "Bugs".

    "They have an Illudium Q36 explosive space modulator, and we're the ones who sold it to them" explained Bugs. "Back in the fifties, there was an American company called Acme who would sell anything to anyone. The Martian leader, a looney little guy named Marvin was a regular customer. He's hell bent on destroying the Earth. It's all he ever talks about. Something to do with his view of Venus." Some research into the Acme company seems to confirm Bugs' allegations.

    But Martian Information Minister, Wyle. E. Coyote, told us a different story. "There is no Illudium Q36 explosive space modulator. This is a myth being spread by the evil ones. "Sure, they sold us some rocket powered roller skates, and giant magnets, but we only use those to control the roadrunner population." He went on to deny the existence of tens of thousands of freeze-dried Martian warriors.

    So get out your telescope on Aug. 27, but wear some earplugs. There just might be an earth-shattering kaboom.
  • If you're going to invade the Earth, guess at what moment you want to do that... Right!

    No one would have believed in the last years of the twentieth century that this world was being watched keenly and closely by intelligences greater than man's and yet as mortal as his own; that as men busied themselves about their various concerns they were scrutinised and studied, perhaps almost as narrowly as a man with a microscope might scrutinise the transient creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water. W

  • close? (Score:1)

    by Xeo2 ( 301694 )
    So all those probes we crashed into it weren't "close" enough?
  • It's too big to be a space station.... I've got a bad feeling about this!!!
  • Because the orbit of Mars is not a perfect circle, Mars, at times comes closer to Earth than others. But, all oppositions are not equal.

    What does circle have to do with anything? The configuration of Mars and Earth orbit is important not the shape of a particular orbit. It is unfortunate how often journalists demonstate complete misunderstanding of basic ideas.

    • Eh?
      If Mars and Earth orbits were perfect circles (centred on the Sun, obviously), then the oppositions would always be at the same distance.

      So if the oppositions are not equal, the orbits can't be perfect circles, QED

      Furthermore, it seems to me (although I haven't done the maths) that even if Earth were any ellipse (maybe circular), and Mars were a non-circular ellipse, then there will always be differing opposition distances -- which is exactly what the article said.

      • If Mars and Earth orbits were perfect circles (centred on the Sun, obviously), then the oppositions would always be at the same distance.

        Even if the orbits are perfect circles, lie in the same plane (as you are implicitly assuming and which is obviously not the case in reality), they would still have different angular speed. That is the year on Mars would be different time from the year on Earth. Therefore the distance between the planets would not be the same all the time.

        I have not done the calculat

  • Orobes? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Semi-Psychic Nathan ( 563684 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:12PM (#6042689) Journal
    Someone wasn't oroofreading oroperly...
  • in an effort to combat the Microsoft mission to Mars, Steve Jobs commissioned a Titanium shuttle to go to Mars and install the first version of MarsOS X on all Marian systems. He also gave Martiansoft computer company a license to make Mac clones, though he is expected to revoke it as soon as he gets back.

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