The Interplanetary Internet 270
Roland Piquepaille writes "This article from SPACE.com about the Interplanetary Internet (IPN) is not science fiction. It is becoming a reality, Rich Gray reports. "The IPN would form a backbone connecting a series of hubs on or around planets, ships, and at other points in space. These hubs would provide high-capacity, high-availability Internet traffic over distances that could stretch up to hundreds of millions of miles." Gray adds that all the planets and satellites in our solar system have already Internet addresses and that NASA is already communicating with its earth-orbiting missions through its internal Deep Space Network. The rest of us will have to wait until at least 2005 when IPN-equipped satellites are launched. Check this column for more details. You also can read a previous Slashdot column on the same subject.
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think of the gamers man! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:think of the gamers man! (Score:5, Interesting)
And the optimal packet size will probably be of the order of gigabytes!
We'll need protocols that absolutely minimize the number of rounds over all other considerations.
And I wonder if your downloads will be slightly slower or faster depending on the red shift or blue shift of the server :-)
Re:think of the gamers man! (Score:2)
Re:think of the gamers man! (Score:3, Insightful)
I think it's been around for a while. We call them letters.
TCP is out, too. (Score:5, Interesting)
Nor will any protocol based on TCP, or any other handshaking or window/retransmissin error-correction scheme (unless you're willing to wait a LONG time for your data).
We'll need something with serious forward error correction. And a lot of the fundamental components of the net will need a rethink before they're usable by humans at even lunar distances.
For starters, web browsing will need a local cache - of essentially the whole internet. Think spiders and massive archives, and serious redesign on sites with dynamic content.
But the pipes are necessarily too small for optimistically broadcasting everything - even if it doesn't change milisecond-by-milisecond. Serious filtering.
And most of the data for sites is the images in the ads. That just HAS to get filtered down - as will other images. Boon or bane?
Re:think of the gamers man! (Score:2)
Re:think of the gamers man! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:think of the gamers man! (Score:2)
Re:think of the gamers man! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:think of the gamers man! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:think of the gamers man! (Score:2)
Re:think of the gamers man! (Score:3, Funny)
-Alex
I have to ask... (Score:5, Funny)
So, whats the internet address for Uranus? http://ipn.myhomepage.ass ? or,
World's most disgusting headline blooper (Score:4, Funny)
Reminds me of when Uranus' faint rings were first discovered. Headline:
IS THERE A RING OF DEBRIS AROUND URANUS?
Probably missed because the "correct" pronunciation is "YOUR-ah-nus".
Right up there with "MILK DRINKERS TURN TO POWDER".
TCP/IP (Score:2)
Re:TCP/IP (Score:3, Informative)
Store and forward.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Store and forward.. (Score:2)
Actually, had you read the article:
Re:Store and forward.. (Score:4, Informative)
Seriously though, batch networking is exactly what is needed for interplanetary networks. UUCP would fit the bill pretty well. Sure, they can hack TCP/IP to support a store-and-forward queue, but it's still a hack.
Re:Store and forward.. (Score:2)
Re:Store and forward.. (Score:2)
The anecdote about the bandwidth and delay of a vehicle full of data storage is quite right. This will be the same kind of delay, with presumably the same bandwidth.
Re:Store and forward.. (Score:2)
Having no engineering experience, I wonder if branch prediction and other forecasting technologies would be helpful in inter-planetary communication. After all, a CPU is desperately trying to figure out what it needs for the future to avoid the painful delays of a cache m
Great (Score:5, Insightful)
While network infrastructure will be working at lower levels, there will of course never be any kind of interactivity - expect new legal fun and games as the need to cache and bulk send stuff to local mirrors collides with steadily more draconian IP laws.
Data Haven? (Score:4, Interesting)
First Post? (Score:2)
-Alex
Hm. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hm. (Score:3, Insightful)
They'll just have to rely on NAT like the rest of us do.
Re:Hm. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hm. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hm. (Score:2)
nah, who'm i kidding. we'll hvae to come up with something else.
Re:Hm. (Score:2)
Already a standard for ex-earth domains (Score:2)
GREAT (Score:5, Funny)
Re:GREAT (Score:2, Funny)
yeah (Score:5, Interesting)
How about we focus on getting things out into space first, then we worry about being able to get pr0n to them?
Re:yeah (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, since most geeks don't build spacecrafts, and most space technicians don't design network protocols, we might as well work in parallel and do all at once :).
Re:yeah (Score:3, Funny)
Re:yeah (Score:2)
i mean hell
Re:yeah (Score:2, Insightful)
The communication system is a key driving factor to any spacecraft design. This is especially true for any spacecrafts not orbiting around Earth.
The communications system drives:
- power requirements
- size of solar arrays
- # of batteries
- # of ground stations
- mission operations
- level of autonomy
- antenna pointing accuracy
- quality and quantity of scientific data
and much more...
In short, the comm system is a key factor in mission ri
Re:yeah (Score:2)
Does this mean... (Score:5, Funny)
Seems like both a forward-looking and very practical idea - I personally hope to see manned stations/colonies/etc within various places in the solar system in my lifetime and it might be handy to have the ability to communicate with those places.
Mind you the scary bit would be tracking down interplanetary spammers! (The nigerian scam could become the martian scam!)
Squatters (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Squatters (Score:3, Funny)
Times and firewalls (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Times and firewalls (Score:5, Funny)
Uranus (Score:2, Funny)
Cheers,
max
Nip it in the bud (Score:5, Funny)
Well, that's one way to prevent 40 people from submitting "repeat post" comments...
It's not slashdotted. (Score:2, Funny)
I've Said It Before And I'll Say It Again... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I've Said It Before And I'll Say It Again... (Score:2, Funny)
>Reply from 178.223.52.43: bytes=32 time=2679146ms TTL=53
>Reply from 178.223.52.43: bytes=32 time=2678608ms TTL=53
>Reply from 178.223.52.43: bytes=32 time=2679568ms TTL=53
>
>Ping statistics for 178.223.52.43:
>Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
>Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
>Minimum = 60ms, Maximum = 183ms, Average = 114ms
Time to patch that ping utility of yours. It uses earth-rela
Re:I've Said It Before And I'll Say It Again... (Score:3, Funny)
Pinging pathfinder.probe [178.223.52.43] with 32 bytes of data:
Error: Path not found.
-
Hack the Planet!! (Score:5, Funny)
Hrmm, if I ping flood the north pole will I cause global flooding? Hrmm, wonder if I can just chmod the boarders to keep terrorists out.. *grin*
Re:Hack the Planet!! (Score:2)
Any relation to the Judge that thought Mitnick was going to launch nukes if he had access to a typewritter?
Well, ipv4 on Linux isn't going to make it... (Score:5, Interesting)
Hmmm... (Score:2)
More info on the JPL site (Score:5, Informative)
This is actually a long-term project which, in 2015 (probably 2030 in reality ;) boasts a downlink of several Tbits per day to earth.
Check out the info here [nasa.gov].
Interplanetary chat rooms: patience required! (Score:5, Funny)
BigDuud: Anyone here? ;-)
(20 minutes pass)
BarsoomGirl: Just me it seems.
(20 minutes pass)
BigDuud: Wassup! I'm at Tycho City, Moon. Where you at?
(20 minutes pass)
BarsoomGirl: Utopia Planita base, Mars.
(20 minutes pass)
BigDuud: Cool! Are you nekkid?
(20 minutes pass)
BarsoomGirl: Yes, but only under my spacesuit.
(20 minutes pass)
BigDuud: Bummer.
(20 minutes pass)
BarsoomGirl: Yeah. We had a failure in the Windows2150 installation, and it caused a pressure imbalance that blew out the mail seals. I was in the shower when it happened. I'm all wet and soapy in here.
(20 minutes pass)
BigDuud: How long before it's fixed?
(20 minutes pass)
BarsoomGirl: Who knows? They admins are downloading the patch from the Redmond Arcology, but it's suposedly 50 billion terabytes for the copyright notice alone.
(20 minutes pass)
BigDuud: Bummer.
(20 minutes pass)
BarsoomGirl: This suit has a seismic vibrator, though.
(20 minutes pass)
BigDuud: Wicked! So, do you have big barsooms?
[Connection terminated. Link eclipsed by Phobos.]
Re:Interplanetary chat rooms: patience required! (Score:2)
(shame on you if you don't get it)
Re:Interplanetary chat rooms: patience required! (Score:2)
I was putting up with multiple minute pings for a loong time before I found out about DCC...
So all you whiners complaining about 300 millisecond pings on UT, shut the fuck up
Windows 2150? (Score:3, Funny)
Lots of Great uses (Score:5, Insightful)
Now once these hubs are set up, Communications would not rely on Line of site; interplanetory travel could "talk" with mission control from anywhere on the journey.
Some Sci-Fi:
Re:Lots of Great uses (Score:2, Insightful)
Your suggestion of sending the signal through Jupiter - Mars - "Venus" (useless as it is closer to the sun than Earth) to Earth will not work, since planets rotate around the sun and will almost never be lined up such that they can be effectively used as communication hubs.
HUH? (Score:5, Funny)
J
Spam Law (Score:2)
Rus
Finally someone noticed (Score:2)
Quantum Teleportation as a solution? (Score:3, Interesting)
Traditional methods of broadcast certainly won't be very useful over distances where light will take minutes to travel. Unless we make rapid advances and make quantum teleportation of electronic data possible, the email of today may become the snailmail of future generations.
Re:Quantum Teleportation as a solution? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Quantum Teleportation as a solution? (Score:2)
Anyone care to explain why quantum teleportation is unable to carry information?
IP laws? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:IP laws? (Score:2)
We'll send AlGore there, and he'll invent them.
Works for me. ;-)
Re:IP laws? (Score:3, Funny)
IPv4 (Score:3, Funny)
on a side note...
maybe a zero latency network using the spin of quarks as the bits
now the hard part -- isolating and seperating matching quarks amd keeping them from phasing out of existance..
not to mention something to accurately detect the spin
ok
maybe i'm full of sh*t
sending data instantaneously regardless of distance...
who knows.. maybe another hundred years or two and we'll be able to instantaneously be able to phase matter in and out of 'existance' in any position in our 4d space-time at will by tapping into all 11 dimentions...
Re:IPv4 (Score:2)
A whole new meaning to
Whole new meaning (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Whole new meaning (Score:2)
Ping timed out... (Score:3, Funny)
Reply from 64.58.76.226: bytes=32 time=300000ms TTL=245
Great (Score:3, Funny)
Like we do not already have a shortage of IP adresses for one planet already. Screw IPv6, we need IPv8 now instead to deal with this! 1,3407807929942597099574024998206e+154 IP adresses ought to be enough for ever space ship, space station and coffee machine in the future! (Don't quote me on that in 20 years, PLEASE!!!)
Re:Great (Score:3, Funny)
And here's a quote from 'dark lord seth' from 20 years ago:
"Like we do not already have a shortage of IP adresses for one planet already. Screw IPv6, we need IPv8 now instead to deal with this! 1,3407807929942597099574024998206e+154 IP adresses ought to be enough for ever space ship, space station and coffee machine in the future!"
little did he know that by the year 2015, everything manufactured would be made of net-connected nano-machines; each with its own address and automatically replaces
Re:Great (Score:2)
A 512-bit header is just massive overkill... unless, of course, you're talking about interfacing between parallel universes.
internet? (Score:5, Interesting)
I wish the article on space.com had focussed on this a bit more instead of popularising it by mentioning Vint Cerf and the Internet. Everyone will realize that the infrastructure is not connected to the Internet (imagine - hacked satellite, DoS attacks). Also, the protocol, which can handle large delays, will have significant differences to regular TCP/IP.
Also, I'd like to know how to NASA will solve a few problems that jump to mind. The communication hubs are only useful if they are close to the sending spacecraft. The hubs can not be put halfway earth and a planet, because of the planets rotation around the sun. So the hub would have to circle around a planet in order for future missions to that particular planet can use it.
But then NASA faces the following problems: on planets with an atmosphere, the hubs will tend to fall to the surface, so in many cases they need fuel to keep their altitude.
Secondly, the hub will only be visible from one side of the planet at the time.
Thirdly, the hub needs power, where to get it from for an extended period of time? Or are the hubs only short lived? In that case, why bother at all?
Error in link to my column (Score:2)
you won't play Doom on this network (Score:3, Funny)
Forget SETI@home (Score:3, Funny)
Satellites IP address (Score:2)
From the Jargon File (Score:3, Funny)
Guess we'll have to change that one once IPN is a reality...
Yes! I'm closer to my master plan now! (Score:2)
quantum physics has a solution (Score:2, Interesting)
Quantum Networking. By using photons with quantum entanglement, it's possible to transmit data from Earth to Mars with nearly no latency.
Of course, we need a few good engineers to make it practical...
Re:quantum physics has a solution (Score:2)
hm. From what I've read about quantum entanglement, there would actually be NO latency; what happens with one particle would happen to the entangled particle at EXACTLY the same time.
And yes, researchers ARE trying to get entanglement to work better (or work at all), but there's obviously no use (yet) in talking about basing an entire planetary-system network on entanglement when there are
0wnZOR3d 8Y 3+ (Score:3, Funny)
IMPORTANT MESSAGE FROM GENERAL ZORGOFF (Score:5, Funny)
I HAVE AN IMPORTANT BUSINESS PROPOSITION FOR YOU. SHORTLY BEFORE THE MOST RECENT MARTIAN CIVIL WAR, I HAD 37,000,000 (37 MILLION) MARTIAN GORANS SITTING IN THE FIRST BANK OF MARS. HOWEVER, NOW THAT THE BLUE THARK HAVE TAKEN OVER THE MARTIAN GOVERNMENT, I HAVE NO WAY OF GETTING MY MONEY OIFF THE PLANET.
PLEASE PROVIDE ME WITH YOUR BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER SO I CAN TRANSFER THE FUNDS TO EARTH, AND I WILL BE GIVE YOU HALF THE 37 MILLION GORANS, WHICH IS WORTH OVER 50,000,000 (50 MILLION) OF YOUR EARTH DOLLARS. YOUR IMMEDIATE ATTENTION AND DISCRETION IN THIS MATTER IS GREATLY APPRECIATED.
- GENERAL GURLAK ZORGOFF
Internet Addresses (Score:2)
Wouldn't a Planetary NAT box be a bit too much of a hack?
Maybe it's just the wording...
Great. (Score:2)
monopolies are great.
.procmailrc script (Score:2)
You haven't seen SPAM lords until you've been to Vega.
Latency? (Score:2)
64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=6165731.1 ms...
We use of IPv4 (Score:2)
Re:But... (Score:2)
Ask your astrophysics professor
Re:But... (Score:2)
Re:But... (Score:2)
Wake up and smell the Clue.
Re:Latency, no problem! (Score:2)
Re:interplanetary travel (Score:2)
Imagine posting the URL to Jupiter's first web-cam on slashdot. A little over an hour after you click the link, you find out it's been down for 30 minutes.