Wireless Electricity Set to Power Village 384
freedommatters writes "The UK Sunday Times has a story today about how "Scientists have successfully applied the technology used in microwave ovens to beam electricity without the need for unsightly pylons and overhead cables." A prototype has illuminated a handful of light bulbs and they expect to be able to power a remote village within three years."
Interesting, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Interesting, but... (Score:3, Funny)
P.S. I can't even register to read the article. Anyone got a mirror/cache? Nothing on Google yet...
=Smidge=
Re:Interesting, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a genuine concern, and I was just addressing it rather light-heartedly. I've done science fair projects on EMF effects on plants, and I have observed differences in growth patterns; there is an observable effect on biological systems. The risks are real, and there should be more study before they start beaming out microwaves that can power homes.
Hum (Score:5, Insightful)
If they don't do this, not only do they get the heatlh issues you point out, but the system simply won't work in practice.
All energy that is not captured by the receiver is lost.
Tor
Re:Hum (Score:5, Interesting)
The article isn't very specific, but I would guess that they would have either used a parabolic reflector or a maser to do this.
A parabolic reflector could focus the microwaves into a beam, much like that of a flashlight, but some energy would be lost to diffraction. A maser is similar to a laser, only it emits a coherant beam of microwaves that would travel from transmitter to receiver with minimum energy loss.
Re:Hum (Score:2)
Could you cite your source? (Score:5, Interesting)
Come on, people that work around microwave antennas do have higher incidences of cancers.
I am aware of cancer clusters around some high voltage power lines that was traced to chemical compounds (used in the insulators, IIRC), but no responsible studies that link microwave antennas to cancer. (I use the qualification "responsible" because I have seen "studies" by the cell-phones-are-killing-us wackos that make the claim, but their methods were so flawed it was funny.)
-- MarkusQ
Re:Could you cite your source? (Score:2, Funny)
Microwave, however, does tend to cause cancer, boiling, and generally being baked. That's the idea. That's why there's lead in your microwave oven's faceplate. It's really not just there to make it harder for you to see the secrets of the microwave.
Re:Could you cite your source? (Score:3, Informative)
Now, an interesting one is the amount of lead in CRT glass. CRT's and X-Ray tubes are surprisingly similar...
No solid scientific evidence (Score:5, Informative)
It has never been shown to cause any cancers.
Radiat Res 2000 May;153(5 Pt 2):627-36 Related Articles,
Leukemia and lymphoma incidence in rodents exposed to low-frequency magnetic fields.
Boorman GA, Rafferty CN, Ward JM, Sills RC.
The PCB coolants used in/around many of those power stations is another subject.
Just to help hammer the nail home, there are many FDA approved devices that use magnetic or pulsed elctronic field devices to aid in bone healing. No reports of cancer yet in these either. Some increased cell growth yes, but cancer no.
This kinda crap science is usually perpetuated by the media and lawyers hoping to make a few bucks (well, usually they want a few million).
Bah!
Re:Interesting, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, provided it is in the right part of the spectrum, the human body might have a relatively low absorbtion rate. Certainly, when we think microwaves, we think microwave oven, but that's only a small part of the microwave spectrum.
The more important point, though is that this may actually cause far less ambient electromagnetic radiation than normal power lines. Ordinary power lines carrying AC current are basically like large antennae (though if properly designed, they are hopefully not very good ante
I'd love to know if the article addresses this... (Score:2)
Here's the article... (Score:2, Informative)
Roger Dobson
SCIENTISTS have successfully applied the technology used in microwave ovens to beam electricity without the need for unsightly pylons and overhead cables.
The power is fired through the air in the form of microwaves and collected in special antennas that reconvert the microwaves into electricity.
A prototype of the wireless power technology has shown the system works and a full-scale version is now being built to make a remote vil
This was done a long time ago... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:This was done a long time ago... (Score:3, Informative)
The early tests had problems with arcing because of the voltages involved and some imperfect geometry of the transmitting surface (before Tesla invented the knobby-globe surface).
The frequencies involved were usually on the order of several dozens to several hundred megahertz, which is generally considered VHF or UHF by today's standards, although it does reach into the microwave band.
As for any
Tumor-Tastic (Score:2, Informative)
Dr. David Carpenter, Dean at the School of Public Health, State University of New York believes it is likely that up to 30% of all childhood cancers come from exposure to EMFs. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) warns "There is reason for concern" and advises prudent avoidance".
Read that carefully. (Score:3, Informative)
Repeated controlled studies have shown that there is no connection between power lines and cancers except in the sense that neighborhoods near power lines tend to be of poorer people who have a higher incidence of cancer due to lifestyles (i.e., they smoke a lot).
Re:Read that carefully. (Score:4, Informative)
I recall reading, a while back, an article about a "microwave cannon" planned by the military. Supposedly it's effect is to raise the temperature of the enemy soldiers' brain tissue by a few degrees, which renders them unconcious. I could imagine that the energy needed to power a light bulb could have a similar effect on your brain, albeit weaker. But it might still make you feel uncoordinated and "feverish".
On the other hand, I'd love to have a microwave power supply for my laptop :-)
Re:Read that carefully. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Read that carefully. (Score:3, Interesting)
He built a 30'x30' pole barn out on his property to use as a workshop for his hobby (restoring 50's & 60's cars). He shopped around auctions and such for months to outfit his shop (shelves, tools, hoist, etc) and got hold of some nice big flourescent shop lights.
When he switches off the lights at night the bulbs still glow. Usually they are pretty dim, but apparently atmospheric conditions af
Re:Read that carefully. (Score:2)
Re:Tumor-Tastic (Score:4, Funny)
Well there is plenty of radiation going around from mobile phone masts, which are either being built next to schools or hidden in the price towers of petrol stations. There was a local news report about a village where they've had a mobile phone mast for the past 10 years and the amount of cancer cases has gone up significantly... one woman who has had major problems takes the news team through her house with a radiation detector and the thing buzzes away even more when she goes upstairs! I can't find a link on the web but here is a start [bbc.co.uk]
Back to the mobile power, it always makes me think of SimCity 2000 with the Microwave powerplants and the warning of a misdirected beam hitting your city instead of the plant.
Re:Tumor-Tastic (Score:4, Insightful)
A 'village'...how many people is that? Two or three hundred? 'Significantly'--what is meant by that? Here's a hypothetical case. Question: If between 1980 and 1990 there are four cases of cancer, and between 1990 and 2000 there are eight cases in this little village, what does that tell us?
Answer: Nothing. The newsmedia will be on their hind legs shouting that the cancer rate has doubled! The village statistician might tell you that the sample is too small--it's just as likely that there will only be two more cases between 2000 and 2010. The epidemiologist down the street will note that a lot of people have moved into the new retirement community, and that older people are more likely to develop cancers. The local toxicologist (it's a village full of professionals) could observe that a refinery closed upstream about twenty years ago, and is probably leaching mutagenic nasties into the creek. The town dietitian sees that McDonald's opened a new restaurant in the village about fifteen years ago, and wonders.
So what's the solution? Blame the cell tower. Why? Because you can see it. It sticks up. It's obvious. It's easy. The drunk drops his keys in a dark alley. He immediately steps out of the alley and begins to carefully scrutinize the gound around a nearby street light. Why? Because they light is better over there.
You've supplied us with an anecdotal report of an anecdotal report. Recent large-scale studies of EMFs show no link between moderate electric or magnetic fields (comparable to those associated with living near power lines or the use of cellular phones) and cancer. Gee.
Re:Tumor-Tastic (Score:2)
Re:Tumor-Tastic (Score:2)
All you need to detect high levels of EMF is a flourescent light bulb.
SB
Re:Tumor-Tastic (Score:3, Informative)
LOL
You realise, of course, a radiation detector that clicks/buzzes is probably a geiger counter.
I thought that was the point . . . (Score:4, Interesting)
Boy, did I wake up cranky today . . .
Re:Tumor-Tastic (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Tumor-Tastic (Score:2)
Solution: Use sunscreen.
Seriously, that sentence is so decidedly vague that I'm tempted to say it was intentional to scare up more research money. "Electromagnetic frequencies" is such a vague term that you don't know if he's talking about shortwave radio or gamma radiation (or anything in between). I wouldn't be surprised if t
now my wireless power cord.... (Score:2, Funny)
Any Risks? (Score:3, Funny)
... oh well, as long as it's being tested on some small village and not me
Re:Any Risks? (Score:5, Funny)
Aiming the Beams (Score:2)
Tesla's Legacy (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Tesla's Legacy (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Tesla's Legacy (Score:3, Interesting)
645,576 Sept. 2, 1897 System of Transmission of Electrical Energy
649,621 Sept. 2, 1897 Apparatus for Transmission of Electrical Energy
685,957 Apparatus for the Utilization of Radiant Energy
685,958 Method of Utilizing of Radiant Energy
1,119,732 Jan. 18, 1902 Apparatus for Transmitting Electrical Energy
Radio (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Tesla's Legacy (Score:4, Interesting)
-Nikola Tesla
Wireless Electricity (Score:5, Funny)
Dangers? (Score:4, Interesting)
(the article is unavailable without a $55 subscription, maybe it is spelled out in the article?)
Re:Dangers? (Score:5, Funny)
I think theyre going to put wires around it which are held up by pylons...
Re:Dangers? (Score:2)
Re:Dangers? (Score:4, Insightful)
Say you want to beam 10,000 watts of power somewhere. If you have a 1-foot radius dish, your power per square foot is ~3100 watts. Your typical microwave is somewhere in the order of 500-1000 watts per square foot. You'd get fried if you touch that beam. However, increase your dish size to 25 feet in radius. You're down to 5 watts per square foot. The OSHA safe level of exposure is about
The idea is that converting microwave energy is more efficent than converting solar energy (I forget why, but theoretically solar panels can not be more than 30-50% efficent, no matter what), so this would be quite interesting if it worked out well.
Tesla was working on wireless electricity (Score:2, Interesting)
Solar energy (Score:4, Funny)
*scratches head* (Score:3, Insightful)
Call me an alarmist, but I want to see the 50-year health studies before I go to something this, er, extreme. I mean, it could be completely harmless, but it just *seems* like something so potentially fraught with problems that my instinct is to avoid it.
Addam Family: (Score:2)
Luser: Can we also get wireless power too?
Me: Yes, it is called "lightening".
(other techs and cow-workers ROTFL)
Can anyone explain the economics of .... (Score:5, Interesting)
Why aren't lines buried to be less obtrusive, better insulated, and non-problematic in ice storms?
Recently, in February, South Carolina, my home state, had a very bad ice storm. It was called "the worst on record". Why was it called that? It wasn't really the worst. Duke Power, our service provider, has failed to maintain the lines in there above ground condition. Lots of trees had grown through power even over and around some lines. Then there was the typical stupid driver who ran into a number of poles all over the area.
I was without power for 4 days. Luckily, I had an UPS unit from a server that has 40 hours and I use a laptop as my main computer. It powered everything in my place including a small heater for a while.
To be on topic, eventhough the above is too: I don't think we should be pushing conventional power to 3rd world countries. With this implementation of "beaming power" - power still has to be generated at a plant with with most likely a non renewable resource. Why can't we give these same people advanced windmills and solar cells? (Then teach them maintenance) That makes so much more sense. I see the costs of even an experiment; very high. Also, I think Microwaves at a ground level would interfere with radio communications at the points below the transmission.
Re:Can anyone explain the economics of .... (Score:2)
Solar and wind power aren't going to be the answer. At this point, both are dilute power sources. Additionally, maintenance of solar and wind generating facilities requires more than just "teach[ing] them maintenance". It requires spare/replacement parts which are usually very expensive and have short lifespans.
Re:Can anyone explain the economics of .... (Score:3, Informative)
Why aren't lines buried to be less obtrusive, better insulated, and non-problematic in ice storms?
Well, you basically identified the issue in your question. It's all about economics. Pylons are just plain cheaper. I have a book that claims the cost of 1 mile of electric cable underground is 1 million pounds sterling vs about 400,000 or 500,000 for pylons. (This book was published in the UK, but I bet the ratio is the same betwe
Re:Can anyone explain the economics of .... (Score:2)
Well, you basically identified the issue in your question. It's all about economics. Pylons are just plain cheaper. I have a book that claims the cost of 1 mile of electric cable underground is 1 million pounds sterling vs about 400,000 or 500,000 for pylons. (This book was published in t
Underground is less reliable (Score:2)
My local power coop says that underground lines are LESS reliable than above ground. Sure tree can fall on above ground wires, but moles can chew through underground wires. The difference isn't big, but it is statisticly significant: there are more outages in underground wires than above ground.
The arguement for underground is looks. People don't like looking at power poles. (personally I think a power pole running through the yard is less intrusive than the big transformers they put in front of a hosu
Reminds me of Civilization.... (Score:2)
Things that make you go hmmm ... at 60 Hz (Score:2)
Re:Things that make you go hmmm ... at 60 Hz (Score:2)
I couldn't get to the article but I would assume they use a MASER [stanford.edu]. So if you conceptualize this as power being transmitted by a LASER then you should understand why interference should not be an issue and that the power does not attenuate according to the inverse square law. As other people have already pointed out though, birds flying into the beam could be killed. It gives new meaning to the phrase 'your goose is c
Nope. (Score:2)
So.. look at something like, a typical laser pen with a nicely columnated beam. Say at 1km the red dot is 1m^2 (just a guess).
Now, if we pretend it's a vacuum and we aren't losing energy due to reflection off
Perfect companion for... (Score:2)
But seriously, this wireless electricity must p*ss off those projects trying to provide internet connectivity via power lines...
Interesting, but dangerous? (Score:5, Interesting)
But keep out of the way of the beam!! I have to wonder about the environmental damage of birds/insects flying through it and getting cooked.
I remember reading about a proposal to send power to the earth this way. By having a massive solar cell array in space transmitting microwaves to a giant receiver on earth, you could gather lots of energy. The thought of this thing getting off track and aiming at, say, NYC seems a little too scary, though.
Re:Interesting, but dangerous? (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, the "Proposal" was called Sim City 3000 as I recall. I also recall the "proposal" included random attacks by godzilla.
Re:Interesting, but dangerous? (Score:2)
The story showed video* of a truck with a big 6-8 foot microwave disk mounted on the back, tracking a small unmanned plan - the small unmanned plane had an electric prop and a 6+ foot flat dish on it's bottom. They were beaming power to it, in flight, via microwaves. And the "little" plane was remote controlled.
Of course that was over smallish distances - hundreds of yards - it wasn't a long distance
Re:Interesting, but dangerous? (Score:5, Interesting)
Please get a clue. The reason it was impossible is becasue of the inverse square law of radiating electromagnetic radiation. In other words if you double your distance from the power generating station you will only recieve 1/4th the power (for non directed beams, which Tesla's station was) using the same power gathering area(antenna size). You would have to generate unbelieveably intense EM fields at the transmission station just to light a light bulb a mile away! It would be so wasteful a means of power transmission that a mere few percent at most of the generated electricity would ever be used by the customer.
By the way your other non-sequitor comment about the "Tunduska" (sic. Tunguska) event belies your ignorance as well, everyone knows by now that it almost certainly was either a comet or asteroid.
Rectenna?! (Score:5, Funny)
I'm glad they defined a rectenna for me...I thought it was an antenna you stuck up your ass!
-psy
Finally! (Score:2)
Um, where's the article, folks? (Score:2)
Going through Lynx I managed to get to user login, and after logging in was greeted with a nearly blank page.
Anyone care to post the article, if they can even get to it?
More details on this site (Score:4, Informative)
Tesla Reference in... (Score:5, Funny)
Great! (Score:3, Insightful)
I can't imagine that microwaves would end up anywhere near as efficient as wire transmission, but it is a nice idea for when you have a source of energy you otherwise couldn't capitalize on (like extra-planetory solar radiation in the recent Sim City games), and just want to siphon as much in a direction where you can't use more efficent methods.
Ryan Fenton
Re:Great! (Score:2)
Mirror of Story (Score:5, Informative)
Roger Dobson
SCIENTISTS have successfully applied the technology used in microwave ovens to beam electricity without the need for unsightly pylons and overhead cables.
The power is fired through the air in the form of microwaves and collected in special antennas that reconvert the microwaves into electricity.
A prototype of the wireless power technology has shown the system works and a full-scale version is now being built to make a remote village on the French-governed island of Réunion in the Indian Ocean the world's first microwave-powered community.
According to a report to be published this week, the system is a cheaper way than either solar energy or local generators of supplying remote areas not connected to a grid.
"(Electricity) network distribution is effective at the centre but the costs increase quickly when you get to the edge," said Dr Guy Pignolet of CNES, the French space agency, which has conducted the trials.
"Extending it to remote areas is very costly, but with microwave technology you do not have those costs. You also do not have pylons, which you may not want in sensitive areas."
The technology works by converting direct current (DC) electricity into microwave power at the transmitting end in the same way that switching on a microwave oven converts electricity into waves using a device called a magnetron. Residents are unlikely to be baked as the frequencies in the two applications are entirely different.
Microwaves for the electricity are targeted via antennas and reflectors at a "rectenna" (from the words rectifier and antenna), which absorbs the microwave energy from the beam and converts it back into DC power with diodes.
In Grand-Bassin on Réunion, which lies at the bottom of a 3,000ft canyon with no road access, electricity is currently provided by solar panels placed on the roofs of the houses. But increasing the amount of electricity solely by using the panels is difficult because of the amount of surface area needed. It is also expensive.
The researchers have successfully produced a field prototype to illuminate a handful of light bulbs. A second prototype is being finalised and will be in operation in about 10 months, while the whole project to supply the village with power is scheduled to be completed within three years.
Additional reporting: Nick Speed
Re:Mirror of Story (Score:3, Informative)
I have a feeling we won't hear any more about this "technology" (which is 50 years old). It's probably a borderline scam artist fishing for VC money.
Perhaps simcity3000 wasnt so far off (Score:2)
Uh, didn't anybody ever play SimCity 2000? (Score:2, Informative)
Not totally related but amusing (Score:5, Funny)
But really, now that I think of it, I should have told them that it would have worked if they'd implemented RFC 3251 [ietf.org] over 802.11! ;)
Tesla did this decades ago (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Tesla did this decades ago (Score:2)
This once sounds more like the square wheel re-invented (Clumsy Carp, whunnit?).
Documentation, as requested (Score:4, Informative)
Read that, it has all the information you need, and documented sources.
I have also seen examples of his coils in real life creating the effect of 'wireless power transfer'. Its simple high frequency air-core transformer theory really.. its not complex in our age.. it was totally amazing in his..
Figures you would post under anonymous, cant hide behind facts.
different strategy (Score:2)
all overhead cables have been removed from many european cities years ago. the secret? underground cables. yeah, i know it costs money but not having to worry about power outages in storms (never mind surges when lightning strikes nearby), having the wires and poles removed is sure worth it. no brain frying either.
Re:different strategy (Score:2)
Imagine having to tear up the streets to fix broken power lines in addition to all the other damage control after a major quake.
Re:different strategy (Score:2)
Wow, microwave power... (Score:3, Funny)
Fourth Grade Idea (Score:2)
I know it's the news but... (Score:2)
It's wireless power transmission, yes.. not "wireless electricity". Wireless electricity is like, lightning, electric sparks, or electron beams....
This is microwave power transmission.
Wrong direction (Score:2, Insightful)
Then again, the oil lobby blocked every innovation for cars, so this is not gonna happen soon.
(And that comment was NOT a flamebait, just my opinion)
Tesla (Score:2, Interesting)
BTW folks - all microwaves aren't bad. Just the resonant frequencies of water molecules that are bad news. Filter those out and anything that might produce them by multiplication and life is pretty safe. Well at least
Wireless electricity? (Score:3, Insightful)
Nikola Tesla himself was known for doing stuff like this [braincourse.com]. But I don't believe the 95% efficiency for a second...You can't even get that though wires if they are long enough.
Practically, "Wireless Electricity" already exists; it's called radio. The difference is only a very tiny current is induced in an antenna, whereas these folks in the article are trying to power a light bulb.
The biggest problem with trying to do this is that electromagnetic waves drop off very, very rapidly as they propagate through space, and to counter this you need a huge generator. If you had such a thing you'd need to direct beam it to this village and you can bet the stream would barbeque everything in its path. Also, radio waves are not lasers...It is very difficult to control where they go, so you could expect a certain spread as it propagated form the power source. I would bet that a lot of the people in the source, destination, and everything in between would be exposed to these amounts of insane EM radiation constantly, and that can't be good.
In short, my take on it is that while this has a certain coolness factor, it's way too impractical. If they don't want to mess with running wire, they should just construct a fuel cell generator and leave them with a hell of a lot of hydrogen. And they can do this now, not wait three years.
Water water everywhere. (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe we'll have the 'beams of steam' going across the various valleys in France!
Many people laughed and scorned Nikola Tesla (Score:2, Funny)
Nikola invented wireless energy. This is Not News, but it is a Good Thing©.
For those who didn't read the article... (Score:4, Informative)
Then post.
This isn't a case of general broadcast, it's point to point.
They also claim that, since it's different frequencies, that they "won't bake the residents." Though I'm not sure about it, I'd think anybody who actually is in the middle of such a project and says such a thing probably know's what they're talking about. (Though obviously spectacular exceptions exist.)
In any case, if they start baking residents, passersby or wildlife, I assume lawsuits will fly. I also assume that somebody has consulted tech-aware lawyers already regarding this issue.
That's right, you won't bake. (Score:2)
The resonance effect is the reason that there are separate settings for "defrost" and for "cook." The frequency neede
physic lessons (Score:2, Interesting)
All radiation silliness aside.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Thus, it is completely unfair to knock this technology because it will never be a match for a burly copper cable.
Imagine what it's like to live in a remote village that has no power available. First off, this almost always means no phones, land-line or cell. It also usually means that the families that are better off run their generators during certain hours of the day, producing noise and fumes, and enough power to get some work done, but they don't run them day and night. Four hours a day at a few hundred watts of power and no phones would significantly change most of our lives.
The most important thing microwave power could provide would be to enable a low power cell-site to give continuous operation at low cost. Unobstructed, 10 five watt channels would provide good communication for a few thousand people if used frugally (the way everybody did when roaming was $2 per minute). The people in the town could set up cellular fixed station adapters and wire their homes with copper and have a cheap phone in every room. With rechargeable batteries that charging up during the generator "power hours" they could have hours worth of night of phone calls to everyone else in the village, and more importantly to people outside the village with which they might want to do business. Even people without generator access could buy a pocket phone with two batteries and leave one at the neighbor's house charging while the other stayed in their pocket to give them emergency contact capability.
In regularly overcast areas (I live in one) the day often has enough light to see by, but not enough to read by. Just one 30 halogen bulb produces better reading light than any oil lamp I've ever used. Without light to read by, or TV of course, nights around here could get pretty boring, and homework pretty hard to do.
Since this is "a remote village" that means it's likely there are some uninhabited outskirts between it and the nearest big city. So between your microwave distribution points there wouldn't have to be any people at all. They could also aim the beam such that overspill wasn't directed toward the town.
I don't like the idea of radiation burns any more than the next person, but if done correctly there would be little danger. This could be a tremendous asset to people living off the grid, and to tower-climbing children wanting to roast hot dogs.
Rectennas (Score:2)
Watch out (Score:2)
What does that mean? (Score:5, Insightful)
Another benefit (Score:2)
RMN
~~~
Simcity (Score:2)
Old tech and clueless comments (Score:5, Insightful)
The microwave systems that SSI [ssi.org] have studied are basically like a UHF tv station transmitter (sans Weird Al).
Birds don't cook, people don't mutate, airplanes won't crash from this. Since this is a line of sight system, the range is probably less than 20 miles. Even so, it will make a terrific demo that proves the practicality of powering cities from SPS.
How efficient is a "rectenna" !? (Score:5, Insightful)
a) conversion from AC to DC
b) conversion for transmission
c) losses due to Tx antenna efficiency
d) losses during transmission incl. energy lost toasting birds and folk getting in the way of the Tx beam
e) losses due to Rx antenna efficiency
f) losses during rectification to DC
g) losses during conversion to work (here light), more if you go to storage (battery) and back again.
Those add up pretty darn quick. Plus power received varies as an inverse square law of the distance from the transmitting site. Not very efficient. Seems like strictly a niche application.
Try 90+% (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Times? (Score:2, Informative)