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Science

"Killer Flu" Emerging On Both Sides of the Pacific 82

Posted by timothy from the get-me-robin-cook-right-away dept.
mallorean writes "The spread of SARS ( Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome ) worldwide is just about making the headlines. The WHO has issued an advisory. American Scientist had two very timely articles relevant to SARS in the current issue. The first is about the rapidly growing antibiotic resistance in bacterial diseases and the origin and possible sources of this resistance. The second article talks about Type A Influenza and the possibility of a world pandemic similar to the 1918 Global Flu Pandemic. The transmittable nature of SARS, the lack of epidemological information and its severe resistance to antibiotics seems tailor made to fit the scenario outlined in the second article ( it even originated in the far east and is a strain of avian flu )." Read below for a related link.

jake-in-a-box points to a New York Times article which says that the illness "has affected hundreds in China and Southeast Asia, and now spread to Vancouver, BC. It does not respond to antibiotics or antivirals and apparently nobody has fully recovered yet. Transmission appears to be via aerosol droplets - coughs, sneezes etc."
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"Killer Flu" Emerging On Both Sides of the Pacific More

"Killer Flu" Emerging On Both Sides of the Pacific

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  • Virus vs antibiotics (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 15, 2003 @03:59PM (#5520447)
    Er, the Flu is a virus, and antibiotics only work against microrganisms and bacteria, therefore it's not suprising that the flu is totally unaffected by antibiotics.

    Duh.

    • Re:Virus vs antibiotics (Score:5, Informative)

      by KDan ( 90353 ) on Saturday March 15, 2003 @04:01PM (#5520468) Homepage
      They don't know whether it's a virus yet (according to most of the accounts I've read, findable on Google News [google.com]).

      Daniel
    • This is usually classified as pneumonia, which is an inflammation of tlung tissues, caused by viruses, bacteria, or irritation by other causes.

      As far as this goes, though, They don't know what it is, so they're throwing everything at it, and hoping something will do some good. Not the most medically sound procedure there is, but when nothing works, try anything.

      --Dan

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday March 15, 2003 @04:19PM (#5520555)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • What's the difference between this latest outbreak and any other outbreak?

    These articles talk about a strain influenza virus (and then they talk about a second disease) which is spreading to dozens of countries and which has killed hundreds of people in Asia. WHO issued an advisory. The deaths are tragic, but these happenings don't seem very unusual to me. Thousands of people die from influenza every year, WHO issues advisories every year, viruses spread every year.

    So how is this new disease different? I couldn't get a good sense from the articles.

    Is this just hype? Perhaps now that we're on the verge of war, and many folks (at least here in the US) are scared of a biological attack. Perhaps that fear is just contributing to the hype?

    • Re:Difference between this and other diseases? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by barakn ( 641218 ) on Saturday March 15, 2003 @06:03PM (#5520934)
      What's the difference between this latest outbreak and any other outbreak?

      So how is this new disease different?

      The new illness is probably not influenza. The flu does not present as a pneumonia, although it can weaken the respiratory tract and allow secondary infection by opportunistic bacteria or viruses. Furthermore, there are rapid tests available for the diagnosis of the flu virus. I presume these have been performed and came back negative. So this is a new, dangerous, highly-infectious disease.

    • Darn it! I wanted to moderate, but I'm going to have to post because everyone seems to have missed something important here. (donates his moderator points to the ether)

      The really really scary thing about this is that no one who has been infected is getting better.

      That by itself might not be enough to have everyone in an uproar, but throw in moderate mortality and extremely infectious and completely unknown infectious agent and it is definitely time to be concerned.

      Just in case you still don't see t
    • Influenza killed 20% of the world's population in 1917-1918. WWI was on so it got all the press. In the meantime bodies were being loaded into dump trucks to be placed in mass graves in central park.

      So, when something new, different and deadly arrives, no one is immune and no medicine cures it.

      That is why there is all the hype. Because this is very different from any of the hundreds of diseases you come in contact with every day, but are immune to.

      That would be an interesting turn of events eh? I mean 20
  • The transmittable nature of SARS, the lack of epidemological information and its severe resistance to antibiotics seems tailor made to fit the scenario outlined in the second article ( it even originated in the far east and is a strain of avian flu ).

    Influenza is a virus. Repeat: antibiotics are NOT for viral infections. Someone needs to get on the ball and crank out a vaccine.

  • The flu/pneumonia and anti-biotics (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 15, 2003 @05:18PM (#5520759)
    My mom died from a case of the flu that turned into pneumonia in 1995. Anti-biotics *are* relevant to flu viruses, because the flu can ofter turn into pneumonia through a weakened immune system. That is why it is so important for people to take anti-biotics sparingly and only when absolutely necessary. When the doctor gives you them please take *all* of them and please do not use anti-biotic soap or any of those kinds of products.
    • Antibiotic soap is really not the problem most people think it is. Its antibiotic properties work on completely different principles than the antibiotics your doctor gives you.

      If everybody uses these topical antibiotics, they will become less effective and eventually completely non-effective, but it will not affect the potency of your doctors penicillin.

      An online Starcraft RPG? Only at [netnexus.com]

    • Re:The flu/pneumonia and anti-biotics (Score:5, Informative)

      by X-rated Ouroboros ( 526150 ) on Saturday March 15, 2003 @10:19PM (#5521792) Homepage

      please do not use anti-biotic soap or any of those kinds of products.

      Not to imply that the AC made this mistake, but don't confuse "Anti-Bacterial" with "Anti-Biotic". Soap is naturally antibacterial, so having this on the label is right up there with selling water by trumping up the fact that it's wet. BUT, one manufacturer does it, so they all do it...
      Oh, the best part is that the mechanical action of washing your hands is what does most of the work in sanitizing your hands, soap can actually make you MORE susceptible to illness by removing a variety of products your skin exudes onto its surface to combat infection (membrane lysing ribozymes and the like) and drying the skin.

      The main abusers of antibiotics are livestock industries, though, not poorly informed doctors and irresponsible patients. Just about every animal is given astounding amounts of antibiotics but not so much for their disease fighting effects (in fact, certain antibiotic classes have been so abused that there are bacterial strains that can use them as FOOD). Someone noticed that animals given antibiotics gained weight more rapidly and reached a higher average weight overall than similarly treated animals that were not given the antibiotics. At first it was thought "oh, it's just because they're more healthy" but, in fact, the antibiotics themselves were causing the animals to bulk up, as proven by the fact that many of the antibiotics still given to livestock are no longer effective as antibiotics (go go evolution) yet the animals still bring more meat to market in less time.

      So, why get upset about argindustrialists overusing admittedly ineffective antibiotics? Because they also do still give the animals doses of currently effective antibiotics... and I don't expect Frank the Farmhand to draw the distinction between the two, so we find abuses of the newer, still effective, antibiotics simply because of the conditioning to overdose the animals.

      The thing that bothers me most about the general availability of antibiotics is that, while Carla the Crackwhore is only destroying her life, Henry the Hypochondriac is busily breeding the new strains of this, that, and/or the other that may just spread around the world one day and kill us all. Tuberculosis is already a growing problem. Post operative infection (by antibiotic/antiviral resistant strains, of course) is a major player in hospital deaths these days. It is my opinion that antibiotics should be controlled with handling restrictions silimar to Schedule I, Class A drugs... as they pose a greater threat to more people than heroin ever has.

      • Re:The flu/pneumonia and anti-biotics (Score:4, Informative)

        by andrewski ( 113600 ) on Saturday March 15, 2003 @10:54PM (#5521942) Homepage
        I think that soap that claims to be anti-bacterial has Triclosan as its active ingredient. Soap is not 'naturally' anti-bacterial - many bacteria enjoy very basic environments, and some can probably live off of it.
      • This post would make a great novel or movie. It has great characters such as Carla the Crackwhore and Frank the Farmhand.
        • *The many lives of hucksworth county, staring in order:*
          "Carla the Crackwhore" as Sweet Virginia Appleseed
          "Frank the Farmhand" as Honest John Smith
          "Henry the hypocondriact" as Sickly Steven Engleburk
          "Lucy the lunatic" as Crazy Mary Jane
          Nancy the nyphomaniac as John Smith's daughter Louise
          And
          "Lester the molester" as Rev. Dick Holden

          Yeah...
      • lysing ribozymes

        Is that a typo or how its spelled? :)

        • It's not a typo. You might be thinking about ribosomes, though, the RNA/enzyme assemblies that translate mRNA into proteins. Ribozymes are catalytic bits of RNA (incidentally, the part of the ribosome that's responsible for forming the peptide bond between the growing protein and the next amino acid is a ribozyme).

          Base pairing will cause single stranded RNA to fold back on itself and take a specific conformation, much the same as the properties of different amino acids will give a protein it's ultimate s

  • CBC Article... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Sentry21 ( 8183 ) on Saturday March 15, 2003 @05:40PM (#5520833) Journal
    The CBC [www.cbc.ca] has a story [www.cbc.ca] on the cases in Canada as well.

    --Dan
    • In a follow-up report the Times reports that SAR does not appear to be propagated by casual contact. It takes continuous exposure, such as would be seen by family members or care-givers. This is reassuring, because if it were to be spread easily it could be a problem. The statement that neither virus nor bacterial agent can be identified is interesting. Exactly what is meant by "a previously unknown infectious agent" is unclear.

      Epidemiologists have been watching for indications of a repeat of the 1918
      • It takes continuous exposure, such as would be seen by family members or care-givers.

        Or, perhaps, work in buildings with "air conditioning" instead of windows that open and have folk show up to work sick. I realize that "air conditioners" are a big ticket status item among managers, but I would posit that they reduce effectivity by lowering the air quality (low rates of fresh air, higher mold or other contaminants), reducing acclimitization, and work place noise. At least a few years ago in the U.S., i

  • solving antibiotic resistance is pretty simple (Score:5, Insightful)

    by g4dget ( 579145 ) on Saturday March 15, 2003 @08:33PM (#5521456)
    If we only used antibiotics in humans, only when they are clearly warranted (dangerous infection that is plausibly of bacterial origin), and with proper isolation of the patients, there would probably not be enough evolutionary pressure on bacteria to develop resistance.

    Instead, we feed antibiotics to livestock and hand them out to anybody who asks for them. It's not surprising that that leads to resistance. The consequence is already a lot of disease that would have been treatable otherwise, and it will likely be lots of deaths in the future. And simply researching new antibiotics won't be a solution: they'll become ineffective as quickly as the current crop; this is a race that we are losing.

    If you prescribe or take antibiotics unnecessarily, or if you buy meat from animals that have been fed antibiotics, you are responsible for the deaths of others pretty much as if you put a gun to their head; it's just that you are never going to meet the people you killed.

    • you are responsible for the deaths of others pretty much as if you put a gun to their head

      Actually, a better analogy might be firing a gun randomly into the street while not looking.

      • consider this, we prescribe more stringent guidlines for the use of antibiotics. Thus, less peeps get them. Then a fraction of the peeps that don't get them, die, from complications that could have been prevented by the use of antibiotics....since these people came in and were personally denied anubiotics, it really is as if you held a gun to their head and pulled the trigger
        • You could consider that, but it would be wrong. Feeding antibiotics to livestock and giving them to people with viral infections are completely avoidable and they do not result in additional deaths.

          It's your illogical attitude of "well, let's take them just to be sure" that's the cause of these problems.

          • hmmmm....perhaps you should have read my post more clearly...i did not mention anything about giving antibiotics to animals. This is clearly unessesary and irresponsible. Also, i said nothing about treating viral diseases with antibiotics. Now, i didn't expressly say that i wasn't talking about this, i just assumed you were smart enought to know that this was a given.

            What i ment was this....
            you said that we should only give antibiotics to people with "dangerous infection that is plausibly of bacterial o

    • Re:solving antibiotic resistance is pretty simple (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dacarr ( 562277 ) on Saturday March 15, 2003 @10:45PM (#5521900) Homepage Journal
      The problem is, there are people who insist on amoxycillin to treat their strain of the common cold. I don't know why doctors don't just kick them out of their offices....
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • it is true that organisms do not evovle in order to better survive in an evironment. It is also true that mutations are random and are happening all the time. Again, true that it just so happens that certain mutations improve an organisms chances of reproduction. Now, then, lets look at them all together. A particular environment exudes pressures on an organism that selects traits that improve the organisms fittness in that environment. Thus the frequencies of hte genes that allow for this greater fitn
      • organisms dont evolve in order to better survive their environments and whatnot. random mutations are constantly happening, and if it just so happens that a certain mutation results in the organism being able to reproduce more efficently than usual, then that organism's new mutated genes are passed on.

        But antibiotics create the situation to which the resistant organisms are adapted.
        If you take antibiotics for one day, then you have killed all of the bacteria which can't survive one day. All the rest are w
      • I'm sorry, but what does any of what you wrote have to do with anything that I wrote? What's your point? Are you trying to argue that because evolution works by random variation and selection, there is no causal relationship?

        If that is what you are trying to argue, it is simply wrong. Antibiotics use causes resistant organisms to become widespread and to become a public health risk. If you use less antibiotics, the risk decreases. This is a causal relationship as strong as any in physics.

        In fact, by

    • If we only used antibiotics in humans, only when they are clearly warranted (dangerous infection that is plausibly of bacterial origin), and with proper isolation of the patients, there would probably not be enough evolutionary pressure on bacteria to develop resistance

      Indeed, and if we just shot all people with a bacterial infection, bacterial resistance would not be a very big issue either.

      As another poster said, people walk into their doctor's office and demand antibiotics for whatever ails them.
      • Indeed, and if we just shot all people with a bacterial infection, bacterial resistance would not be a very big issue either.

        And? Are you proposing that? Because I clearly was not.

        And, what's worse, people that actually *do* need the antibiotics often stop taking them once they begin to feel better,

        Well, gee, that's why I said "with proper isolation", which includes supervision.

        I am curious though...can you name me one research project that has conclusively linked feeding animals antibiotics has r

        • NO. that FDA press release will not do.

          That was a press release, not a research project, as was ask for by the poster. Also, the press release used many words like "may cause" and "might cuase." Not very strong language. Furthermore, the acticle provides no meaningful statistics. It just thows out numbers, without any statistical analysis. The only numbers even presented are comparing two years. N=2 is not a very large sample size :( Anyways, the acticle provides nothing that any self-respecting sc
        • From the press release you cite:

          another kind of bacteria--Campylobacter--may build up resistance to these drugs. And that's the root of the problem.
          People who consume chicken or turkey contaminated with fluoroquinolone-resistant Campylobacter are at risk of becoming infected with a bacteria that current drugs can't easily kill. Campylobacter is the most common bacterial cause of diarrheal illness in the United States, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. It's estimated to affect

      • You're going to have a tough time finding any real scientific study as strongly worded as you may wish. To a scientist, "strongly suggests" is about as close to an unequivical (sp) statement as you can get.

        To get you started, though:

        Nutr Rev 2002 Aug;60(8):261-4 (review article on the impact of antibiotic use in animals on humans)

        J Am Diet Assoc 2002 Jun;102(6):768 (article on how to communicate the issue to patients, written to Dieticians)

        J Environ Health 2002 May;64(9):66, 62 (WHO data summary

  • Geeks to the rescue (Score:3, Insightful)

    by braddeicide ( 570889 ) on Saturday March 15, 2003 @10:52PM (#5521930)
    We need more Distributed Computing disease curing programs aka http://folding.stanford.edu/ [stanford.edu]

    tecks and scientists unite! :)

    (stop looking abroad while there's problems at home (SETI))
  • The killer flu is something that we have been hearing about, planning for, for years. It is either been averted, postponed, or is just not the threat that it was in the history of the earth. Let's think what would happen when health and emergency service workers are either home sick or too scared to come to work. Even more threatening are the lack of logistic services, road crews, transportation drivers to deliver medicine to the hospital pharmacy. Oh and the sudden need for extra people to work in the "ne

  • Scary (Score:3, Informative)

    by tsa ( 15680 ) on Sunday March 16, 2003 @06:23AM (#5523076) Homepage
    This is really scary. I have a heart disorder. People with heart disorders are extra vulnerable to the flu, so I hope my doctors will warn me in time and tell me what (not) to do... I heard it takes about 10 years to make a vaccin against a new type of flu so that will probably come too late.
    I think I'll stay indoors and only invite people if I really have to :-)

  • Why antibiotics are fed to the livestock (Score:4, Informative)

    by Muhammar ( 659468 ) on Sunday March 16, 2003 @08:24AM (#5523197)
    Cows and pigs are not supposed eat grains and soya all the time - but it makes them grow quick and their meat is more tender & juicy (=intramuscular fat). High calory/low fieber diet can make the animals sick - the bacteria in the gut would produce a lot of acidic products that irritate/cause inflamation of the gut, resulting in indigestion, diarrhea and poor absorbtion of the feed. But if you suppress bacteria by adding antibiotics, you can feed this stuff with impunity.

    Although, the antibiotic resistance may not have anything to do with this: the pathogen looks to me more like a virus, quite possibly of the influenza variety. Please remember that influenza viruses are *exceptionaly* variable, fast- mutating. They have their natural reservoir in birds (wild population and chicken as weel) and also pigs, and only infect humans when they mutate. Influenza virus needs the host to have a protease capable of activating the key virus protein. Most often these proteases are specific to the particular tissue and animal species - that is until the key virus protein eventualy mutates and a new host becames vulnerable to it.
    When the mutation would happen is unpredictable and if the new influenza virus is only a cousin-relative to the common influenza virus, the neuramidinaze inhibitors may not work at all on it.
    Muhammar

  • Omega Post! (Score:4, Funny)

    by dexter riley ( 556126 ) on Sunday March 16, 2003 @10:19PM (#5526277)
    So few posts about a killer bug sweeping the globe? This could mean only one thing...

    I am the LAST SLASHDOT READER ALIVE ON EARTH!!!

    Last Post!!!







    ...damn, I'm lonely.
  • Am I the only one that thought this might be a terrorist plot? Hmmm.... going to war with Iraq, then all of a sudden we hear about all this sick people and this flu with no cure. Now it's in Canada. Hmmm, remeber the movie "The Stand"?

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