Blacker Than Black 449
An anonymous reader writes "British scientists at the National Physical Laboratory in London have invented the darkest material on Earth. 'It could revolutionise optical instruments because it reflects 10 to 20 times less light than the black paint currently used to reduce unwanted reflections. The key to the nickel and phosphorous coating's blackness is that its surface is pitted with microscopic craters.' Wonder how effective it would be as a solar heating surface ?"
What's blacker than black... (Score:2, Funny)
You know? The joke just isn't as funny this way.
Re:What's blacker than black... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's obvious that it's highly non-reflective in the visible portion of the spectrum, the question is how "black" is it in other spectrum regimes. Is it equally black in the IR, and/or UV?
Also, remember that a good absorber is a good emitter.
Re:What's blacker than black... (Score:4, Informative)
More information in New Scientist (Score:3, Informative)
A slightly more informative article is here [newscientist.com].
They give the recipe.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Wonderment (Score:5, Insightful)
It wouldn't make much difference, because changing from absorbing 97.5% of the sunlight to 99.65% isn't going to change the economics of your solar collector much.
However if you are building a telescope and you want to reduce the stray reflections, going from reflecting 2.5% to reflecting 0.35% is a huge improvement
Re:Wonderment (Score:2)
Re:Wonderment (Score:4, Interesting)
The shape of the aircraft is designed to reflect the majority of radio waves directly away from the source and the coating is designed to absorb the remaining radio frequencies, not light. But it does appear to be based on the same priciple as this super-black material. From what I understand of RAM (Radar Absorbing Material), there are small pockets on the surface that are designed to trap and scatter the radio waves until they've almost completely dissipated. The color of the material is rather arbitrary, as I've seen it painted in "desert-camo" in photos taken before it was made public (to hide it better against the sandy-colored ground in the desert where it was being tested). Just before being made public, it was painted black to hide better at night in the sky, which is it's intended primary operating time/environment. Making it even *more* black wouldn't make it much more "stealthy". If you're looking for IR signatures, the engine exhaust would probably be more of a giveaway even though it's cooled to about 800F or so. And because it's in the sky, a UV scan would probably be useless as space (the sky's background) is filled with UV. Blocking even more UV makes it a black mark on a light background.
I might have a use for this super-black material to coat the insides of my projection TV, as well as cover the windows during movie nights! Perhaps even using this on road signs in addition to the super-relective paint the DOT already uses can make road signs easier to see at night due to increased contrast and less glare. Oh, and telescopes, too. Kinda neat, overall.
Solar heating! (Score:5, Funny)
I would say that the solar surface is hot enough as it is!
...also, it's already black enough (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:...also, it's already black enough (Score:3, Informative)
Is it? I was under the impression that the chromosphere kindof messed that up a little. Oh, and the Sun isn't in thermal equilibrium with anything. Actually, I suppose its own gravitational energy counts (over sufficiently short timescales)...executive decision? OTOH phenomena such as sunspots and other surface effects remove any homogeneity from the radiation, and don't forget the solar neutrino emission which is unlikely to be in thermal equilibrium.
Typically, black bodies are approximated by hollow ceramic ovens with a gold lining. The oven has a small hole in the side and is heated to the melting point of gold Thus you know exactly the temperature of the sides of the oven, you make the hole small enough that effusion doesn't upset the thermal equilibrium, et voila you have a blackbody standard.
And with one fell swoop.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:And with one fell swoop.... (Score:3, Funny)
It shouldn't make much of a difference to the poser-goths in their parent's basement though. They're already covered with a cratered surface.
Re:And with one fell swoop.... (Score:3, Funny)
-Kelt
The real question is ... (Score:4, Funny)
10 to 20 times less? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:10 to 20 times less? (Score:2)
Look, it's simple. 'Black' paint would normally reflect a small amount of light. This new stuff reflects 1/10 times that amount.
Re:10 to 20 times less? (Score:4, Informative)
If old stuff reflects X, and new stuff reflects 100% less, then new stuff reflects zero.
With me still?
100% of X _is_ one times X.
Ten times X _is_ 1000% of X.
With me still?
Something that reflects 10 times less than the old stuff reflects 1000% less than the old stuff, and therefore reflects -9*X.
With me still?
The original wording is misleading. The original complaint against it was valid. Instead they should have put something more like:
The new material reflects 1/10th to 1/20th of the amount that the old material reflected.
The new material is 10 to 20 times less reflective than the old material.
YAW.
Obligatory Link (Score:2)
Stealth car! (Score:2)
Re:Stealth car! (Score:2)
black (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:black (Score:5, Funny)
That must have been the same piece of black, made by the Acme company, that Wile E. Coyote used to put against a rock when he was trying to catch Woody Woodpecker.
Re:black (Score:4, Funny)
Re:black (Score:2)
Here [geocities.com], or here [rr.com]
The name (Score:5, Funny)
Why don't they name materials better today? What is interesting in the name "Super-black"? Nothing!
I suggest we call it Darkonium or something...
Re:The name (Score:5, Funny)
we could even go around saying it affects superheroes or something.
Re:The name (Score:2)
I prefer Blacula [yahoo.com].
Re:The name (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:The name (Score:4, Funny)
Re:The name (Score:3, Informative)
(cf. Gene Wolfe's "Shadow of the Torturer" for details).
How much more black could it be? (Score:5, Funny)
None more black.
Re:How much more black could it be? (Score:5, Funny)
And there was still nothing. But - hell - you could SEE it!
Re:How much more black could it be? (Score:2)
:-)
I think the term originally comes from Television, where you can get Blacker than Black, as the actual signal level for black is higer than the absolute lowest value. Ever done the calibration where you have to lower/raise the brighness so that a black areas is the same colour as the background? There is a test image and a description of the process here [pacificnet.net].
Highly recommended if you like things to be "just right" ;-) Most folk have their TV set very wrongly and don't realise it, usually because they have the settings up in the shop to make it stand out from the other ones.
If you are interested in this sort of thing, and have a home cinema set up, I highly recommend the Video Essentials [videoessentials.com] DVD, which explains everything about setting your system up to be perfect. No, I don't work for them!
Spinal Tap's next album (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Spinal Tap's next album (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Spinal Tap's next album (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Spinal Tap's next album (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Spinal Tap's next album (Score:3, Funny)
Sandpapered (Score:5, Funny)
-Mark
Re:Sandpapered (Score:2)
Great. Now all the flea markets are gonna be stocked with Elvis paintings on this!
fuligin? (Score:2, Informative)
OK, now we know what fuligin [pannis.com] is made of.
Espionage (Score:2, Interesting)
Especially if instead of just light it also doesn;t reflect other things like signals. Electricity and EMP and radar and somesuch.
'Dark matter' used for 'Dark purposes'.
Of course it could revolutionise things in other ways I believe those will be the first purposes this material is used for.
Imagine the potential in laptop LCD screens however.
Re:Espionage (Score:2)
Re:Espionage (Score:2)
Like what, exactly?
Does this mean... (Score:5, Funny)
Nifty. I wonder how long... (Score:4, Funny)
Nigel Fox, who heads the optics group at NPL, said: "When you look at the black, it is an incredibly beautiful surface. It's like black velvet."
Who'll be the first schmuck to paint Jesus or Elvis onto this surface?
Absorb or absorb not, there is no reflect (Score:5, Informative)
Is it Frictionless Though? (Score:2, Funny)
Rest In Peace Mr. Adams
I've got a Mr Desiato on the line... (Score:2, Funny)
Rob.
New? but I saw 2001: A Space Odyssey ... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:New? but I saw 2001: A Space Odyssey ... (Score:2, Funny)
amature astronomy (Score:5, Informative)
black velvet (Score:3, Funny)
From the lame Ananova article:
I thought that black velvet was 60% Guinness and 40% Champagne...
We can finally get the Heart of Gold affect (Score:3, Funny)
Might make a cool screen too.
Why don't they (Score:2)
Martin Black (Score:5, Informative)
Aaaiiiiih Got (Score:2)
An' I'm Supa-Black! UNGH!
Hawt!
ala SuperBad
A Tad more detail (Score:5, Informative)
Mirror (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Mirror (Score:2)
Future work (Score:5, Funny)
Mom! Dad! (Score:5, Funny)
Why in certain angles? (Score:2)
This kind of things could decrease utility, or make possible uses more difficult?
Re:Why in certain angles? (Score:2)
My half-assed guess is that it's a property of the craters. At the proper angles, the light that doesn't get immediately absorbed is reflected to another part of the same surface. So instead of reflecting x% of the light hitting the surface, it reflects x% of x%.
There are going to be some happy goths! (Score:5, Funny)
Well... (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, this would make a great solar heating material - somebody mentioned the specific heat of the material, but as long as you have a thin layer backed by a heatsink, the specific heat doesn't matter (it's just the amount of heat a material can contain per gram; if you have just just a tiny bit of black substance, it doesn't matter how much heat it stores); it's all about the absorbtion.
Re:Well... (Score:3, Funny)
Oh man...the potential. Too bad I don't have a sense of humor.
I see a telescope and I want it painted black... (Score:4, Insightful)
"Wonder how effective it would be . . . (Score:3, Insightful)
Ummmmm, much more than black paint?
I don't mean to be snide or anything ( for a change), but you really couldn't figure that out for yourself in about 1/10 of a second?
Not that it'll make much difference in a world that still puts black asphalt products on their roofs (which does everything wrong, being hot in summer and cold in winter) instead of polished aluminum.
In order to make good use of solar radiation one must first learn to use it *properly,* no matter how efficient any particular material is. Otherwise that efficiency just goes to waste.
I recommend a perusal of Rex Robert's classic work "Your Engineered House" for an explaination of how understanding basic thermodynamics can be applied simply and cheaply, with off the the shelf non-propriatary building materials, to a house with remarkable effect.
Just as in software no one makes gobs of money promoting nonpropriatary solutions, even though those solutions may not only be cheaper, but *better.* The whole Open/Propriatary thingummy goes far deeper than the IT industry. It is pervasive in every walk of life.
It's up to you to ignore the advertising material and edumicate yourself I'm afraid.
KFG
Materials Science (Score:5, Interesting)
This will prove to be useful, for two reasons:
First, it is a better absorber then what we have now, which, as someone pointed out, would make an incremental improvement for things such as solar collectors.
Second, it may find some powerful uses as a black body emitter, which would have some applications for cooling. Specifically, there is a window in the atmosphere where energy can leave the atmosphere ( around one of the IR ammonia lines, IIRC) this may alleviate the greenhouse effect ... maybe ...
As one of my Professors used to say "Progress is measured by progress in Materials Science". He might have been biased, however...
I would be very interested to find out the wavelengths where this is effective.
There are three types of reflectance that I am aware of: mirrors; diffuse reflectors (lambertian surfaces) and a special case of reflectance as found on a dusty surface, such as the moon( which is an aggragation of spherical lambertian surfaces, with special properties). Anyone else know of any others?
the ENHANCED greenhouse effect *sigh* (Score:3, Informative)
I'd rather hope not
As my old Professor used to say "its the ENHANCED Greenhouse Effect thats the environmental problem, the normal Greenhouse Effect is what keeps us alive"
If our Atmosphere didn't 'trap' a certain amount of the incident energy from the sun, and the Oceans didn't transport this around the surface then out little planet would resemble a snowball.
This is what happens in an ice age when the Ocean/Atmosphere system flips into another metastable state and the large amount of ice and snow on the surface significantly changes the reflective properites of the planet and the whole system cools.
First we need to understand how this delicate balance actually works before we try and fix it. One thing we are learning is that the Ocean/Atmosphere system is not the safe stable thing we assumed it was, but its very dynamic with a number of metastable states. It can and has switched between states on a geologically quick (5000 years) timescale without much provocation. The bad news is that sustaining life is easy in the current state, it gets much harder in some of the others.
Like a pH buffered solution its quite possible that our environment can tolerate and compensate for all the stuff we chuck into it, and then suddenly flip to another state.
Oh, and the increment improvement in absorbtion will do very little to help solar collectors - the problem with solar collectors is doing something useful with the heat once you've got it, not getting it in the first place. Find me a material thats twice as good as a thermocouple than current technology and we may be on to something...
Shoot... but sign me up (Score:2)
(Not that the return for cost will be there in consumer optics, but that never stopped those of us with $1000 phase coated, nitrogen purged roof prism binoculars before... We're too easy.)
next release even blacker (Score:2)
Pitting the surface with microscopic black holes will make it even blacker.
Besides, it will absorb everything (including matter, not only energy!) very well - good for cleaning industry.
two thing to solve before: how to make microscopic black holes (perhaps in a process of cold fusion?) and how to keep them together (perhaps with dark matter?).
Wait a minute, what is the color of dark matter? Is it black or it's grey a bit?
Solar heating (Score:3, Informative)
Say conventional black paint reflects 1% of the radiation. This stuff reflects, say, 0.1%. If you are building optical instruments then that is a 90% decrease in ambient reflections from internal surfaces, which is really useful.
But if you are interested in harvesting energy then the absorbancy has gone up from 99% to 99.9%, which is an increase of just 0.9% over what we had before. Gee.
Paul.
Cool Case Mod. (Score:2)
short on details (Score:2, Interesting)
Here [ananova.com] is another example.
reminds me of that black stunt ship (Score:5, Funny)
offtopic, yes, but somewhat more in the vein of discussion, how does it do on reflecting, say, radar?
Military uses surely more likely (Score:2)
I reckon positive environmental projects like solar heating for developing countries won't get a look in.
If it really is a useful low-reflecting material, the Official Secrets people will slap a secrecy and Military Secret stylee order on the whole lot and the only time we'll see the stuff (pun intended :-) ) is on UK military equipment. Oh, and US military as well, seeing as Tony is trying his damndest to make us the 51st State these days....
Metallica (Score:2, Funny)
Solar Power. (Score:5, Interesting)
If this material can make the total cost smaller then its good but if it makes it more expensive it isnt of any use. Robustness and price is what we should look into and not efficiency. A cheap solar panel that lasts for as long as it have to be functional to return the investment is possible today.
The main problem with solar power is that when you need the power most (night/winter) there arent much sun around. Solar Power can never be anything but a valuable complement to something else. All trials of storin the energy longer times have failed miserably so far.
Im not just rambling here, i was a partner in a company manufacturing solar panels some years ago.
Hmm... (Score:2)
Was I the only one who read this as star-trekkers the first time?
How Black Is It? (Score:5, Funny)
Back in Blacker than Black (Score:2)
AC/DC should really rename their Back in Black album now.
Stupid non-scientist question... (Score:2)
Zinc Cloride (Score:2, Interesting)
The intent was to use it in cameras in to enhance the already black shrouds fore of the camera lenses in space.
It was very odd looking at something so black.
obTapRef: (Score:2)
The question is how much more black could it be? The answer is none... none... more black.
You guys are all wrong... (Score:2)
I'm so goth... (Score:2, Funny)
I'm so goth my black is blacker than your black. I call it "black black."
I'm so goth, I don't say "black," I say "blahhwwwkkk."
I'm so goth I have actually seriously uttered the phrase, "the darkest dark of the dark darkness."
;)
My favourite one is a bit off topic but it has to be mentioned..
I'm so goth that bats hang little plastic me's from their ceiling.
turkeys. (Score:2)
Imagine turkeys with white meat, dark meat, and SuperBlack.
Oh wait, I left the oven on for too long.
Where are the pictures? (Score:2)
Here's a picture of it (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Here's a picture of it (Score:3, Funny)
Note that SuperBlack is a bit on the bluish-pinkish side.
"Martin Black" has been available for years (Score:4, Informative)
"Martin Black" is proprietary though, so if you want a part coated you have to send it to Lockheed.
To get it darker... (Score:4, Interesting)
My father used stacks of razor blades as a heat dump for lasers in his fusion research at University of Wisconsin.
He showed with pencil and paper how the razor blades successively reflect the light into the gaps between the blades, without turning it around. Thus, they absorb all the light, and make a great blackbody.
Just as an interesting note: This was back in the early 70's, at a time when cost-efficient fusion was only a decade away, and had been only a decade away for 20 years. As part of his defense, he was asked whether it would be practical any time soon. His answer was no. When asked why, he pointed out that the reaction that was giving them some success was the D-T reaction, and that Tritium was so rare that it would never be a practical fuel.
That essentially did not earn the pleasure of others in the field, and kept him out of that field -- perhaps a blessing, since success might have doomed his life to failure.
Jack London, "The Shadow and the Flash" (Score:3, Informative)
Two competitive brothers both seek the secret of personal invisibility via divergent, and completely bogus methods. One of them finds some way to make his entire body perfectly transparent (!) in the belief the perfect transparency equals invisibility, and apparently gets his index of refraction close to unity but still has some dispersion, because although he is invisible, he produces telltale rainbow-colored flashes.
The other one searches for a perfect black, in the even stranger belief that an object covered in perfect black reflects no light and is therefore invisible. According to the story, this works except that, of course, he casts a shadow--and when he's present, even when not casting a shadow his presence creates an ill-defined sense of darkness or gloom.
More info about composition (Score:3, Informative)
NPL Super Black In order to make accurate measurements in the UV, IR and visible regions, optical instruments and sensors need surfaces with very low reflectance. These black surfaces are used as efficient radiation detectors or may reduce stray light in an instrument. Highly efficient black surfaces allow smaller, lighter instruments to be made, which is an important advantage in aerospace applications. NPL has successfully developed a very high quality optical black ] known as NPL Super Black. The process uses an adapted nickel phosphorus electroless plating technique followed by finely controlled etching and gives probably the blackest surface known in the visible region. NPL has successfully and repeatedly produced the Super Black coating on a small-scale ecottage industryf basis for a number of years. It is now for upgrading and validating the process for plating much larger substrates with this high quality optical black. The upgrade has led to an opportunity to collaborate with CNES, Astrium and Sodern, the major space contractors for the European Space Agency, on the space evaluation of the black. If successful this will open up many new opportunities for supplying coated optics to the aerospace industry.
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
I am guessing that he meant:
"there is a new material and it darker than any previous material known to man on earth. It could revolutionise optical instruments because it reflects 10 to 20 times less light than the black paint currently used to reduce unwanted reflections"
See since it is darker than any other black material, he said blacker than black because it is blacker than any other material known on earth. And because it is blacker than any known material material on earth he said blacker than black. Because the previously blackest known material was black! Therefore he said blacker than black. Get it?
Forgive me if you were trying to be funny, both sides seem to be overly sensitive.
Oh I can't wait to see the mods on this one.
Re:This is good news... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:RADAR absorbing paint for cars doesn't work (Score:2)