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Space Science

Satellite Imagery Used to Trace Lewis & Clark Route 112

Posted by timothy from the visit-the-st-louis-museum-too dept.
Woogiemonger writes "To commemorate the 200 year anniversary of the Lewis & Clark expedition, NASA and other researchers are using satellite and aircraft remote-sensing technology to accurately reconstruct the path of the Lewis & Clark expedition, down to the precise location of each encampment. Considering many parts of the landscape along the path may have changed dramatically, this is no easy task. The final result will be a 3D interactive map publicly available on the WWW."
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Satellite Imagery Used to Trace Lewis & Clark Route More

Satellite Imagery Used to Trace Lewis & Clark Route

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  • Lewis and Clark IMAX movie... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by EnlightenmentFan ( 617608 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @11:00PM (#4949345) Homepage Journal
    ...is going on at the Boston Museum of Science [mos.org]. If you don't live in Boston (gosh, why not? It's the hub of the universe), the same movie will probably be traveling to similar humongous-screen theaters elsewhere.

    • Re:Lewis and Clark IMAX movie... (Score:5, Funny)

      by TheAntiCrust ( 620345 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @11:21PM (#4949377)
      I went to Boston once... almost ended up living there we got lost so much. Maybe this technology could trace me a route out of boston...
      • Even Boston drivers get lost driving in Boston.

        Some claim those mazes of one-way streets were put there on purpose. Keeping a steady flow of 10,000 autos daily going round-and-around-and-around, totally lost, generates enough waste heat to save homeowners millions on fuel oil.

        • Forget the maze part. Some friends and I went to Boston for Spring Break last year, and driving in that city is nonsensical. Examples:

          There are roads which have no lines in them, and it's left up to the current drivers as to how many lanes they are. The first time I was on a street, it was 2 lanes. When I ended up there again (because of the mazes mentioned in parent) it was 3 lanes - two on the pavement, and one on the streetcar tracks.

          We also encountered a dumpster sitting in the middle of the road with no construction in sight. And it wasn't even a big construction dumpster - it was the kind you'd see behind a 7-11. Just sitting there in the street...

          It blew my mind. We ended up parking outside the city and using mass transit.
          • it was 3 lanes - two on the pavement, and one on the streetcar tracks.

            Heh. Sounds like you were on Huntington Ave., which is right by my place. That's part of the fun of driving in Boston... There aren't as many pesky lines and signs to cramp your style as there are in other places. Technically speaking, the tracks are legit for driving on, because the double-yellow is in-between the two sets of tracks.

            The dumpster thing is wild. Haven't seen that one.

            I offer this advice to anyone doing any driving in or around Boston: Expect people to cut you off, jaywalk, and stop at random places. Just expect it, because it happens so much that I don't even notice it anymore except in really egregious cases. Don't take it personally. This city is so dense and poorly laid-out that people really just have to be assholes to get anywhere. Your blood pressure will go down, and you'll be a happier driver. Oh, and don't expect to get anywhere in a hurry, especially around rush hour. One last thing: get a street map of the city and the surrounding area. Invaluable, even when you've been here for years, because the streets do not follow ANY logical pattern.

            We ended up parking outside the city and using mass transit.

            Yeah, that was my solution, the first time I came here and a few years before I moved to the city.
            • Expect people to cut you off, jaywalk, and stop at random places. Just expect it...Don't take it personally.

              Amen to that--thus I recommend Boston BINGO on any car trip. Each outrageous driver or pedestrian gives me a point--when I get to five points I win!!!

              I haven't actually won the game yet, but I once got all the way to three on the few blocks of Mass Ave between Harvard and MIT. (If I hadn't been carting my daughter's pet snake, I would have been riding the Red Line, I do know it's better.)

        • Nah, it's easy to get out of Boston. Just follow all the other cars that aren't going anywhere, either.

          Grumble...grumble... Freshpond Parkway is right...

          Then there's the fun trip on Mass Ave, where it suddenly becomes a one-way street past Harvard (Univ). Plus the "guess which lane is the x turn only lane" games that seems popular...

          Oh, yeah, and what does Brown [ups.com] do for me? Block the right hand lane with their stupid delivery trucks! Thanks a lot!

          Of course, driving in Boston is not the problem. The problem is parking in Boston...

    • The Lewis & Clark IMAX movie is even showing at the local Omnimax/IMAXdome in Lubbock Texas [sciencespectrum.com].
    • We don't have IMAX; we watch potatoes grow. Real life much more interesting.

      And I thought TN(where I really live) was as bad as it could get.

  • Why This Is Odd (Score:4, Interesting)

    by fozzy(pro) ( 267441 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @11:15PM (#4949355)
    With the ISS possibly going unmanned in the near future should NASA try to conserver resources? Just An Idea.

    Any way it seems like a good way to use technology for the recording of what man has done...just maybe not the best time to do this.

    • Why Is This Odd? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by glrotate ( 300695 )
      NASA is doing something that will actually further our knowledge about a hugely popular subject, Lewis and Clark. Witness the enourmous popularity of the Ambrose book Undaunted Courage [amazon.com]. I think this is a much better use of its budget than sending astronauts up to that great trailer home in space just because.

    • Consider the scale (Score:3, Insightful)

      by MacAndrew ( 463832 )
      A project like this can be done for the cost of the toilets on ISS; what an interesting use of limited funds!

      Sharp-eyed readers will sense my implicit criticism of ISS. :)
      • Really? And you consider the fundamental advancement of space technology (in any shape of form) to be less important than entertainment?

        NASA is wasting it's money daily, this is just another example of that waste.

        The day we get our prioritys right is the day we solve half the problems on this planet..
        • Really? And you consider the fundamental advancement of space technology (in any shape of form) to be less important than entertainment?

          Except that this "fundamental advancement of space technology", in the case of the ISS, is being done primarily for its entertainment value!

          The ISS is a crowd pleaser, nothing more. Real projects for real science are being hacked and cut so we can have a habitable garbage can in low earth orbit. For example, soon Pluto's atmosphere is going to freeze and blanket its surface, rendering Pluto unvisitable in any practical sense, for a hundred and fifty years. We had a probe ready to enter the Pluto-Charon system before this would happen but it got hacked because of ISS cost overruns. In fact, NASA is hardly doing anything interesting anymore because of that stupid ISS. They're the ISS agency now. The scientific community hates the ISS. The general public loves it, because they're scientifically illiterate and believe it will lead to bigger and more interesting manned spaceflight, but the ISS has little scientific or practical value other than allowing us to observe the horrible long term effects of weightlessness and ionizing radiation on people in space. (In fact, this was one of the very few rationalizations actually offered by its proponents.)

          NASA is wasting it's money daily, this is just another example of that waste.

          NASA will save a lot of money for way more worthwhile projects if it mothballs this orbiting turkey. Crashing the damn thing into the ocean would be an even better idea if there were enough political will to do it. It breaks people's hearts, and they don't want to believe it, but manned space flight in general is a dead end and an immense waste of money. Things are just too far away and the mere requirement of a return trip cripples all but the least ambitious projects.

          • I personally would like to see the ISS dissapear into the atmosphere as well. NASA has a lot of problems related to this dead-end project, and could do a lot worse than injecting it's budget into things like reusable craft and advancing propulsion
  • This is great! I've been searching for coordinates for my GPS so I can visit the trail if I am ever near it. Maybe they will publish the data. Too bad they didn't leave any geocaches!

    • Re:Coordinates! (Score:5, Informative)

      by El_Nofx ( 514455 ) on Tuesday December 24, 2002 @12:08AM (#4949557)
      The general area of the trail is pretty much already laid out. In North Dakota there are two highways, 1804 and 1806, symbolizing the route they took in the respective years, their are several very nice places to stop in ND such as the Louis and Clark interpretive center in Washburn and Ft. Lincoln in Mandan. My grandfather helped design the interpretive center, some engineering work and although the latter wasn't constructed until 70 years later it gives you a glimpse into the frontier past of the upper midwest. General Custers rebuilt house, a wooden fort circa 1870 and Mandan Indian Earth Lodges you can go into.

      The Missouri has been damed up in many spots and only 3 or so spots remain where one can see the river as they did, from Garrision Dam south to Bismarck (canoed it for 5 days last summer for the second time, very very beutiful) and two sections in Montana before and after FT. Peck Dam. South of Bismarck is Lake Oahe and further south then that going into SD and Nebraska it is kinda polluted.

      If you were to ever get near this area I would recommend stoping in, I grew up in ND and still live in ND I don't think it gets the credit it deserves for it's beauty and history.

      No I don't work for the ND Dept. of Tourism, hehe

      If you have any questions about what to do or stay, email me, moszer AT moszer DOT net

      Merry Christmas /.ers!

      • Re:Coordinates! (Score:4, Informative)

        by dirkdidit ( 550955 ) on Tuesday December 24, 2002 @01:23AM (#4949791) Homepage
        I, too, still live in North Dakota and have visited most of those places. Lewis and Clark is a huge thing up here and it's getting bigger with the bicentennial approaching. The school district where I work has put together a littlewebsite [k12.nd.us] on Lewis & Clark.

        The Map section [k12.nd.us] has information on each of the major L&C locations in ND. It's pretty interesting, I'd suggest anyone interested in L&C take a look.
    • Simple, Map Exchange has it. If you have the TOPO series maps by Wildflower Productions which has been bought by National Geographic, These routes overlay right on your TOPO maps. Upload the route to your GPS and follow the route. I downloaded this last summer and have checked some segmets of it.
      Map Exchange [nationalgeographic.com]

  • Neat Trick (Score:3, Funny)

    by core plexus ( 599119 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @11:16PM (#4949364) Homepage
    "The result: A vast cache of satellite imagery along the Lewis and Clark trail can become available to the Internet browsing public.

    Who discovered this vast cache of satellite imagery along the Lewis and Clark trail, and how did Lewis and Clark come by it 200 years ago? No wonder they only needed $2,500-they already knew they way, they just wanted to milk the job.

  • They stayed in Metropolis most of the time (Score:5, Funny)

    by Sanity ( 1431 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @11:18PM (#4949370) Homepage Journal
    Didn't Clark and Lewis actually fly around - and as far as I can tell, they pretty-much stayed in Metropolis the whole time.

    I really think that NASA should have better things to do than tracing the wanderings of superheros and their girlfriends.

  • satellites? use the command line (Score:5, Funny)

    by product byproduct ( 628318 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @11:19PM (#4949371)
    traceroute lewisandclark.com
  • To actually be able to see the route that Lewis and Clark et al took on their expeditions from above will be quite a boon to history buffs and genealogists alike.

  • Superman? (Score:2, Funny)

    by awx ( 169546 )
    Took me about three takes to realise that that didn't say Lois and Clarke. I had images of a mini-superman game, played on a "3D interactive map publicly available on the WWW."
  • Philp admits that taking a visual voyage along the trail can be unnerving in some locales.

    "There are parts of the trail that are very depressing. The urban transformations have been dramatic in some areas. At the same time, there are areas, certainly not pristine, yet the degree of change is less," he said.

    "So I think you get the full gamut of depression, concern, and outright outrage at the change. And then there are other places along the trail where you have hope," Philp told SPACE.com.

    I wonder what he means by this? Depressing how, exactly? Are there a bunch of K-Marts on the trail?
    • "So I think you get the full gamut of depression, concern, and outright outrage at the change. And then there are other places along the trail where you have hope," Philp told SPACE.com. I wonder what he means by this? Depressing how, exactly? Are there a bunch of K-Marts on the trail?

      I don't claim to be an expert or anthing, but my guess about what parts of the trail are probably less than exciting are probably in the eastern half of the trail. I say this because the east is more developed and industrialized and has been this way longer than cities on th western half. In any case, you can follow the trail yourself to make that determination:

      http://www.lewisandclark.com/plan/planning.html

  • favorite L&C trivia (Score:4, Interesting)

    by small_dick ( 127697 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @11:24PM (#4949388)
    Lewis carried an air rifle [vmi.edu] on the 1803-1806 expedition. .31 cal, 700-900 lbs. per sq. inch.

  • I used an Apple IIe to trace the route (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I used an Apple IIe to trace the route and that was nearly 20 years ago. There was this really cool game for that computer. Anyone play it?

    • Oregon Trail != Lewis & Clark trail (Score:5, Informative)

      by green pizza ( 159161 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @11:33PM (#4949428) Homepage
      I used an Apple IIe to trace the route and that was nearly 20 years ago. There was this really cool game for that computer. Anyone play it?

      There is a huge difference between the two... Lewis and Clark (and their many assistants) were explorers. The Oregon trail was an established wagon train route from St Louis to Oregon.

      That said, the (early) Oregon Trail games were quite cool. The original Apple II version had pretty crappy graphics, but the (two disk!!) second edition was much better (though required 128 KB of memory!). The early Mac version was cool as well, it supported LocalTalk LAN play for interactive wagon trains (voting, hunting, etc). The more recent versions for Mac/Win are nothing but eyecandy.

  • How Sad... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dissonant7 ( 572834 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @11:24PM (#4949391)
    It's a real symbol of how far NASA and in general, the spirit of exploration, has declined that we use our fabulous science and technology to celebrate past endeavors instead of sending humans to Mars or even simply returning to the moon.
  • I've never read the journals, so I have no idea, but... Either they are thoroughly descriptive (bordering on manic), or the boys at space.com are just doing a lot of guessing.

    I have a hard enough time following telephone directions to a new dentist. Imagine how hard it is to retrace someone's steps through a journal that's hundreds of years old.

    • Re:Accuracy? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Road ( 170213 )
      Of course, I dont have the original journals, but I do have Gary E. Moulton's volume 8 that covers the time Clark was on/near my property.

      They are thoroughly descriptive.

      Excerpt July 24 1806

      S.E. 1 mile to a bluff on the Std. (starboard) bend.

      N. 70 deg. E. 2 ms. under a bluff on the Std. side Psd. and island on the lard. (lardboard, or port)

      N. 20 deg E. 4 m to a lard bend passed island on stard. side high bluff on std. low prarie on lard side.

      This is a small part of what was written in each section of the journals. There are actually 2 pages of lat/long descriptions at the beginning of this section. They start each section with Lat/long descriptions of their position, and any visible landmarks. This is followed by accounts of the day.

      P.S. Clark spells like Cmdr. Taco, no two words alike. :)

  • Maps (Score:1, Redundant)

    by Scrameustache ( 459504 )
    In other news:

    Science: Maps Used to Trace Lewis & Clark Route

  • Perhaps in the future, those who are spearheading this project can do a map tracing of El Camino Real de California [pacificnet.net], or whatever it's formally known as (more coloquially known as El Camino Bignum [tuxedo.org]). I'd love to see where that runs in conjunction with current roads, but that's just me.
  • Did they ever make it to the end of THEIR retracing of the Lewis And Clark expedition, and would this have helped them?

  • Additional Landsat images (Score:4, Informative)

    by MacAndrew ( 463832 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @11:52PM (#4949501) Homepage
    What a nice project, to correlate (which does not prove causation*) ground and orbital studies. It must have been difficult -- which suggests skills acquired for future challenges.

    On the more aesthetic side, "Earth as Art" [nasa.gov] is just starting out, but very encouraging.

    USGS has done a Landsat study of environmental change [usgs.gov] and NASA's general collection. [nasa.gov]

    Wasn't it Al Gore who proposed a live video feed from a satellite watching Earth. Please don't share your opinion on Gore or the cost -- but wouldn't that be a nice little channel to have? I could name about 20 cable channels I'd surrender to get it (small loss). You could be one of the first to detect the first nuclear conflict. See, I'm not all that optimistic.

    And linked from my home page is the Earth Science Image of the Day [usra.edu] with explanations.

    There are a lot of amazing photos out there, I am always interested in hearing of more, especially if explicated. I'm glad to see them coming to increasingly creative use, beyond assessing crops and measuring ocean temperatures -- useful as these things are!

    *semi-inside joke
    • I agree that a live video feed from space would be a cool channel, but we almost have that now with the NASA channel whenever there's a mission. Half the time it seems to be just a camera pointed at the earth.

      What I'd like to see, and I'll bet this would even have a profit available, would be a 'reality' channel which showed only the security cameras from really bad neighborhoods (convenience stores, etc). Ideally the places with the highest crime rates or other activity indicators would determine the camera choices.

      I lived in an apartment building that had a camera pointed at the front door you could get on an unused cable channel. When we had parties we used to put the TV to that channel with the sound off; there was almost always some amusing people/events happening, especially on weekends.

      Even now the Minneapolis cable system shows the "freeway channel" -- a feed from the state highway department that shows a rotation of all the metro area freeway cameras. The rotation is nice if you actually care about the general traffic patterns or want a weather sampler, but it'd be nice if there was a way to pick a specific camera or 'hold' on one that came up.
      • The 55-story Chicago highrise I lived in not that long ago had cameras here and there around the building. (I knew where by peering over the guard's shoulder.) One of them showed me how he could manually pan and zoom the, and said he actually kinda liked the Friday graveyard shift because the drunks would come home and "people get real uninhibited." Hey, at least he was paying attention.

  • Relate (Score:3, Funny)

    by limekiller4 ( 451497 ) on Tuesday December 24, 2002 @12:04AM (#4949545) Homepage
    I can't think of a better way to relate to their experience than to have a satellite image to trace my finger over.

    *sigh

  • History repeats itself... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Quaoar ( 614366 ) on Tuesday December 24, 2002 @12:12AM (#4949567)
    Hopefully NASA doesn't repeat the Mars mission by making a unit conversion area. I think they'll be suspect if Lewis & Clark are shown to have discovered the Congo.

    • Re:History repeats itself... (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      A unit conversion area? You're saying they made an error because they set aside a special area where everyone has to go if they want to convert units? And therefore those who wished to convert units but were too lazy to move into the area had to make intentional errors, because then they weren't really converting units? And you also suggest that NASA chose the Congo as the location of the unit conversion area. Interesting theory.
    • Hopefully NASA doesn't repeat the Mars mission by making a unit conversion area. I think they'll be suspect if Lewis & Clark are shown to have discovered the Congo.

      Naahh. They'll just hurl a multi-zillion dollar probe at the midwest and say ,"Oh shit! Meters... Yards... I always get them confused."
  • Anyone who's struggled over making sense of their unique interpretation of the English language should recognize they'd fit right in here.

  • Why can't I (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by t0qer ( 230538 )
    Get a sattelite with a HUGE fricken laser beam attatched to it's forhead?

  • Jefferson's Letter..Interesting read (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 24, 2002 @12:42AM (#4949675)
    Online text of Jefferson's letter to Lewis. President Thomas Jefferson's Instructions to Captain Meriwether Lewis (June 20, 1803) http://www.library.csi.cuny.edu/dept/history/laven der/jefflett.html
  • Can't locate my copy right now, to give you the exact month, but there was a National Geographic article on the retracing of the route within the last 8 months.

    I remember some interesting commentary on the desire of municipalities to claim ownership of historic sites.
    • yup, i saw that, 2...2 bad u can't do a grep on hardcopy;-)

      i'd love 2 do a synthetic timelapse...maybe morphing images in bryce...but i'll have 2 wait 4 santa 2 bring me a g4...this 366mHz iBook's 2 slow;-)
  • Science: Satellite Imagery Used to Trace Lewis & Clark Route

    In other news, the Total Information Awareness office is stumped at the failure of their satellite tracking experiment. Researchers tentatively conclude that Lewis and Clark may have gone underground.

    President Bush announced earlier today that he may "have no choice but to bomb Montana (further) back into the stone age" unless these potential terrorists are turned over to appropriate authorities.

    Critics suggest that a search for a live target might prove more fruitful.

  • "Through the most advanced technology in the world today,we can pinpoint the precise location that Lewis and Clark got down with Sacajaweya"
    • "Through the most advanced technology in the world today,we can pinpoint the precise location that Lewis and Clark got down with Sacajaweya"

      So, does this mean that now the satellite will get to have it's picture engraved on a faux-gold coin?
  • Isn't this is taking Homeland security too far? I mean, these guys have been dead for a long time. They can't be much of a threat by now.

  • What do you want to bet that the route suddenly now runs thru Las Vegas with special mention of the Bunny's Bordello and the Mustang Ranch and a secure site at NASA that lets you buy a 'Listing' for your town on the route. I already found Crawford TX as magically appeared on the route. Could they finally now have a clue on how to raise money for space exploration?

  • ...who were Lewis and Clark?

  • Paltry Money (Score:2, Informative)

    by dubner ( 48575 )
    The space.com referenced story says:

    > two centuries ago, American President Thomas Jefferson sought a paltry $2,500 in funds.

    We can expect a certain lack of financial acumen from a "Senior Space Writer" but what mathemetically-educated person thinks $2500 two hundred years ago is "paltry"? At 6% interest, it would be worth about $287 million today. And at 10% it would be worth $474 billion.

    Disclaimer: my calculations were hastily done with Lotus-1-2-3. Nevertheless, my point is that $2500 two hundred years ago is worth more than $2500 in year 2003 dollars.

    --
    Joe

  • How about being a little more accurate, and saying that this is going to reproduce a map that scientists BELIEVE Lewis and Clark took? Given the immense amount of theory in today's science, where so little is provable with what we really know, and how many old laws/rules/etc. have been proven wrong, how about not stating that anything is/was correct unless there is some serious proof?
  • But will they have enough resolution to pick up rusting sardine cans?

    Here's Owen Wister, writing in 1902, waxing nostalgic for the good old days of the 1870's:

    "Sardines were called for, and potted chicken, and devilled ham: a sophisticated nourishment, at first sight, for these sons of the sage-brush. But portable ready-made food plays of necessity a great part in the opening of a new country. These picnic pots and cans were the first of her trophies that Civilization dropped upon Wyoming's virgin soil. The cow-boy is now gone to worlds invisible; the wind has blown away the white ashes of his camp-fires; but the empty sardine box lies rusting over the face of the Western earth."
  • Many of these types of projects (including this one) are the result of members of congress mandating that NASA spend money on specific projects in their districts. They're called "earmarks" and are a way to avoid the standard review and budgeting process that may weed out frivolous spending.

    Here's a good article: Pork-barrel projects threatening NASA's core programs [ledger-enquirer.com]

    That said, educational programs like this do serve a useful purpose - they can teach about remote sensing and Earth system science. NASA uses a suite of satellites to monitor the Earth continuously. Applications include mapping, land use/land cover change, global climate studies, atmospheric research, etc. Because the data are complicated, money is needed to process and evaluate it. Data, remote sensing, the electromagnetic spectrum, atmospheric physics, and cartography are all pretty abstract, and something concrete and possibly exciting (or at least interesting enough to attract the press) like the Lewis and Clark Trail is a good way to get people interested.

    In any case, the data covering the trail (which the U.S. taxpayer already paid for) will end up being more accesible than otherwise. So it's not a bad investment.
  • Of course this is the perfect example of applying the things you learned in school. Math coordinates to navigate a SAT., geometry to scout the lands.. etc etc. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember most of the class falling asleep. Is this really something that we _needed_ to do? Or could we have taken that money and plugged it into improving something worthwhile? ack, I hope this doesnt turn into a troll. Just a bit nervous about tax $$ being used in places that simply don't make a difference to the overall population.

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