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Science

The Origin of Dogs 43

Posted by michael from the land-of-many-fire-hydrants dept.
nessdog writes "Your old friend in the back-yard can read you like an open book according to this article from the BBC. They report that your dog's power of reading your body language is better than a chimps. So next time you tell a lie, just remember who might be watching..."
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The Origin of Dogs More

The Origin of Dogs

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  • Of course dogs can find food faster than chimps. They are much smarter than chimps...or people.
    • I don't think dogs are smarter... They may be fairly good at interpreting social cues from humans, but that's from conditioning.

      Personally I think dogs are better at finding food because of their superior sense of smell. I think this is another case of bad research, at least with comparing relative intelligence.

  • The catch (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 22, 2002 @10:32AM (#4731570)
    Sure they can read you like an open book. But dogs can't read books! Aha!

  • Does that mean.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by mattsucks ( 541950 ) on Friday November 22, 2002 @10:38AM (#4731621) Homepage
    So next time you tell a lie, just remember who might be watching...
    Does this mean that instead of polygraphs, the police will soon begin using lab tests?

    Officer: Sir, did you rob the bank?
    You: Of course not.
    Lab: woof woof *
    Officer: Just as we thought, lying!

    * I have to go out and pee on your tires.

  • Hmmmm (Score:5, Funny)

    by FungiSpunk ( 628460 ) on Friday November 22, 2002 @10:48AM (#4731740)
    Any animal that sits down in front of your entire family on Xmas day, then cleans its own gentials with its tongue, is hardly screaming up the evolutionary ladder!
  • This is kind of on topic since it involves a dog, and due to the lack of comments about this article, I figured that I'd post it.

    Has anyone seen the Dexter's Lab where Dexter gets a dog? I love the part when his dad goes into his room, and says "How long has this Lab been here?" Dexter was like "ummm, well the thing is..." Then his dad was like "...Because you know how much I like Labrador Retrievers!" Then his dad goes on to tell Dexter that its a big responsibility to keep a dog, and stuff.

    I get a kick out of that one every time I see it.

  • 3 canine Eves (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Strange Ranger ( 454494 ) on Friday November 22, 2002 @11:11AM (#4731918)
    Given the small genetic sample that it seems 95% of dogs have originated from, I wonder if some careful breeding of wolves back into the dog gene pool would help with all the congenital problems that dog breeders have to be so vigilent about. Genetic diversity of course being a Good Thing.

    I know dog/wolf hybrids aren't supposed to make good pets, can be dangerous, wild, etc. But careful breeding back into the most popular dog breeds would be worth preventing thousands of cases of hip dysplasia, eye problems, heart problems, skin problems, etc., etc.

    A wolf/poodle cross might be a little disturbing though.

    • Re:3 canine Eves (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Smallpond ( 221300 )
      This article [theatlantic.com] on canine genetics points out that
      aggression is the most frequent problem for which dog
      owners seek help. It also points out that biologists
      classify dogs as "social parasites". One view I've
      heard is that dogs have adapted to mimic the mannerisms
      of small children in order to get humans to care for
      them.

      Perhaps we should cross that poodle with a rabbit?

    • dog breeding (Score:2, Interesting)

      by phriedom ( 561200 )
      It would be a lot easier to just mix the dog breeds instead of starting over with wolves. If you start now with breeding a little wolf into dogs, your grandchildren or great-grandchildren might get a "good" dog out of it.

      The problem with trying to make dog genes stronger though is that people don't want mutts or "mixed breed" dogs. People want pretty coats, and friendly, hard-working personalities. And breeding a dog to be healthy and live long doesn't win dog shows, which is where the money is for breeders.
      • That's why dogs like Border Collies, Australian Shepherds, etc. are so smart and fit. The Australian Shepherd "breed" was made up of many other breeds and also whatever mutts that were around at the time that appeared to be good at herding.

        Mutts are hands down the healthiest, smartest, and unique dogs out there. They almost always make the best pets.
      • people don't want mutts or "mixed breed" dogs. People want pretty coats

        Thanks for that bit of insight Cruella [amazon.com].
        • That should be modded 'funny', But seriously, what is so bad about Cruella, wouldn't a coat made from dalmations be really beautiful? I'm not trying to upset anyone who really loves dogs (I love dogs) but I trying to point out that most of us have a different standard for how cute animals should be treated. Many people who think the idea of a dalmation coat is icky don't think twice about eating chicken, or wearing leather. How in the world can we logically defend spending millions of dollars to rehabilitate Keiko the Orca from "Free Willy" when 18% of the children in my state live below the poverty level?

    • Re:3 canine Eves (Score:4, Insightful)

      by R.Caley ( 126968 ) on Friday November 22, 2002 @01:47PM (#4733052)
      I wonder if some careful breeding of wolves back into the dog gene pool would help with all the congenital problems that dog breeders have to be so vigilent about.

      Dog breeders have problems not because of the genetic base of all dogs, but because they make money breeding dogs with their close relatives. The result is the doggy equivalent of banjo players and European royals.

      • Re:3 canine Eves (Score:4, Informative)

        by Strange Ranger ( 454494 ) on Friday November 22, 2002 @02:18PM (#4733383)
        A couple of points

        You refer to dog breeders making money from "Pure breeds". Good breeders don't use close relatives to accomplish this. At least not what we think of as close relatives. 3rd cousin-in-law twice removed or some such thing is more like it. But together we both make the same point - Because of the lack of genetic diversity in dogs, especially purebreds, distant relatives can be genetically equivalent to fraternal twins (litters are made up of "fraternal twins"). Hence the need to inject some fresh DNA into the line.

        My other point to the other poster: Mutts can make the best dogs, and usually have the potential to be healthier, but you never know until after you've owned the dog for half its life. If you want the perfect pet for your own needs the best way to do it is choose a pure breed that fits your needs and lifestyle and then spend a ton of time researching breeders and choosing the right line and puppy for you. This way you are far less likely to be surprised by what you get and be stuck with it for 12 or so years. Sure, there is a mutt out there somewhere who is exactly what you want in size, coat, brains, temperment, activity level, etc, and will live a bit longer than the perfectly chosen purebred, but your chances of finding him as a puppy and raising him as your own are almost exactly nil.
        • Because of the lack of genetic diversity in dogs, especially purebreds, distant relatives can be genetically equivalent to fraternal twins

          But the diversity in the set of all pedigree poodles is orders of magnitude less than that in the set of all dogs, so there is probably no need to bring in diversity from outside the set of alldogs, just throw the gates open and let the poodles screw the alsatians etc.

          If you want the perfect pet for your own needs[...]

          Buy an AIBO.

          Real pets are idiosyncratic, that is more or less the whole point of having a pet isn't it?

          In any case dogs are for the socially inadequate:-)

    • Re:3 canine Eves (Score:5, Interesting)

      by young-earth ( 560521 ) <slash-young-earthNO@SPAMbjmoose.com> on Friday November 22, 2002 @02:07PM (#4733254)
      Hip dysplasia actually became common in the US in the 1930's. Yet it was quite rare in Australia until the 1970's and 1980's. That's not evidence for a genetic issue, but it does correlate quite effectively with when commercial (cooked, processed, etc.) dog foods came on the scene.

      If you feed your dog the BARF (Bones And Raw Food) diet [barfworld.com], odds are they'll be a ton healthier. Research has shown that dogs from lines raised on the BARF diet tend to have near-zero incidence of dysplasia when their litters also use the BARF diet (see the books on the above site for details).

      Many breeders are coming to realize this - the problem is primarily intake not primarily genetics. This has been quite effective for our giant-breed dog, a Great Pyrenees [akc.org]. He's over 11 years old and still quite spry, without a trace of dysplasia.
      • Thank you for the BARF link. I have always thought dog food was terrible, with the "veterinary" brands hopefully being the least bad. I'm getting a brand new puppy soon (surprise), and will likely go with BARF now that I know it exists.

        Thanks again!
      • This reminds me of the checkles I get out of reading catfood can labels. No, not the contents, the marketing hype on the front: Stuff like "All natural! Ox hearts and Liver!" Yeah, I can just see little Kitty running down an ox, tearing it's liver out. Or Tuna. Sure. Wild cats love to fish tuna. Do you have any idea how large a real, live, average tuna fish IS? Hell, even KITTEN II [sluggy.com] would have a problem landing one of those.

        But I guess the Florida blue-hairs would take exception to "Mice-flavored catfood - now with real pieces of rat!"...

    • Hrm, I don't think that a wolf/poodle cross would fix hip dysplasia or anything. However, it might give you a dog that would bite your leg off and then start humping it ;)


    • Please choose from the following list:

      • wolf-poodle
      • poodle-rabbit
      • poodle-sheep
      • rabbit-sheep
      • poodle-AIBO
      Don't know if all these options will be available, but we're supposed to see the fearsome results next year: Impossible Creatures [impossiblecreatures.com]

    • Re:3 canine Eves (Score:3, Interesting)

      by lommer ( 566164 )
      Actually a friend of mine has a dog that is 1/4 wolf, and I can say that it is one of my favourite dogs in the world. It is not dangerous or really wild, and it is incredibly intelligent. It can pick up tricks or patterns much quicker than any of the other 3 dogs in the house. If I was going to get a dog, I would definitely want a part-wolf.
  • Here is the google news [google.com] link which has 48 articles on this topic so far.

    http://news.google.com/news?q=cluster:www.smh.com. au/articles/2002/11/22/1037697876221.html [google.com]
  • So next time you tell a lie, just remember who might be watching...
    Yeah, it's watchin', but not tellin'!
  • Well, you can understand a dog too...

    With this Dog Translator [time.com] you can interpret your dog's barking.

    Sorry, body language isn't interpreted.

  • East Asian origins (Score:3, Interesting)

    by egeorge ( 547281 ) on Friday November 22, 2002 @02:16PM (#4733359) Homepage
    "His team found that, though most dogs shared a common gene pool, genetic diversity was highest in East Asia, suggesting that dogs have been domesticated there the longest."

    I thought this was an interesting point considering the fact that east asia is a part of the world where some people eat dogs.

    I wonder if there is any relationship between these facts.

  • joke (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 22, 2002 @02:53PM (#4733729)
    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.

    -Groucho Marx
  • Its nice to know that, since dogs were first domesticated in East Asia, the next evolution taking place in the relationship we have with canines involves us eating them.
  • In the article it said: they evolved from just a handful of wolves tamed by humans living in or near China less than 15,000 years ago. I thought that Dingos were brought to Australia by the aboriginals when they arrived 40,000 years ago. What of my presuppositions are wrong here?

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