Egyptian Pyramid Mysteries to Be Explored Live 223
An anonymous reader noted that "National Geographics will probe the inside of a blocked shaft in the Great Pyramid of Giza, and will also open the oldest intact sarcophagus found in moder times." Since this
is the shaft where all the secret alien technology has been stored for the last few thousand years, and everyone knows that these "Sarcophagus" things are
what the Gou'ald use to regenerate, I think this whole thing will be interesting as hell. Awh who am I kidding- I'm just a junkie on watching those specials where they explore pyramids.
shouldn't they leave this lind of stuff to... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:shouldn't they leave this lind of stuff to... (Score:1)
Re:shouldn't they leave this lind of stuff to... (Score:2)
Are they sure they can get it out again? (Score:5, Funny)
Short-term memory gone? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Short-term memory gone? (Score:2)
Re:Short-term memory gone? (Score:1)
Break from poking Wil with a stick: Bad.
Re:Short-term memory gone? (Score:1)
s/Timothy/Cmdr Taco/gi;
They must be cellphone users ... (Score:2)
Do Cell Phones Make Us Stupid?
Re:Short-term memory gone? (Score:2)
Re:Short-term memory gone? (Score:1)
"No." "Nah." "Nope."...
Why so long? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Why so long? (Score:5, Informative)
A bit of history here...Rudolph Gantenbrink and his team discovered the door some years ago. Zahi responded by rushing them out of the country and making sure that they wouldn't be able to come back.
For years Zahi Hawass has claimed that there is "nothing" to see up the shafts, that there is no "door". Now, he's gone 180 degrees and claims there IS a door. The whole thing is a circus, and Zahi Hawass wants to be ringmaster. He also wants to lay claim to whatever is behind that door--they've completely locked Gantenbrink out of this whole procedure, hijacking what is rightfully his "claim".
Re:Why so long? (Score:4, Informative)
It's also noteworthy that the CNN article about this completely fails to acknowledge Gantenbrink's achievements and incorrectly states that the door was discovered in 1872.
A summary of Gantenbrink's work can be found at http://www.cheops.org
-I.
This is VERY misleading (Score:3, Informative)
>and his team discovered the door some years
>ago. Zahi responded by rushing them out of
>the country and making sure that they
>wouldn't be able to come back.
This is actually a VERY misleading statement. Gantenbrink, by way of Robert Bauval, let the word out on the findings of the 'door', whereas it is standard procedure for *everyone* who is doing research there to go thru the Council of Antiquities FIRST.
That Bauval was associated somehow with it is probably what tipped the balance (for fairness, you can read Bauval's account of the events in Secret Chamber by RB, chapter 9 I believe). The combination of having an "alternative" historian (that means one who cherry picks his 'evidences') together with the the breaking of the rules relating to announcement of discoveries is a big no no for egyptology, simply because these things get out of control, in terms of wild and completely unfounded speculation, REALLY quickly.
Many might not realize this, but there is a huge *industry* revolving around the "mysteries" of ancient egypt, where authors who know very little of (or chose to ignore) the HUGE coherent picture that egyptology is, ignoring montains of evidence supporting it and countless others that go against their own "brilliant" speculation, end up transforming a culture into a "legacy", heavily hinting at mythical places such as Atlantis (a spurious story already of which ONLY plato talks about, and in terms heavily metaphorical), and often sliping into concepts like "noble or higher race" and the like.
The world of "alternative egyptology" is fascinating at first glance, but is roten from the inside, trust me on this.
Another point is that the "door" hardly is a door, as it is located in a shaft that is 8x8 inches, unless someone has a book to write about little beings using this shaft as a corridor for their daily affairs (I suspect this would easily be linked to our alledged martian legacy in a sleight of hand). The two "handles" could be many things, but even if they are handle, that doesn't make the thing a door, it just makes it a plug, with handles.
The third thing i'd like to mention is the latent hatred of that "alternative research" community toward people like Zahi Hawass, who has, despite these people crave to dig everywhere, been dedicated to protecting and researching the Giza site for many decades. Granted Zahi has a big mouth, granted he doesn't know how to talk to journalists, but his dedication and honnesty are obvious to anybody who looks into the field (and no, reading Graham Hancock's 'work' does not qualify). Mark Lehner is in a somewhat similar yet different position, since as an ex-Cayce believer, he began his career with the goal of finding things like the "Hall of Records" (his academic training was financed by ARE, the Cayce fundation). Having learned a lot since his debuts, and having grown up, he is now bashed by his old buddies for being honnest. (don't you find it strange for instance that RB's "orion correlation theory" used to 'lock' giza to 10500BC, just as Cayce 'predicted' ? Thorough examination shows there is no such lock to such an epoch to be found, and the OCT has now been reduced to a "astetically pleasing representation" that lacks any form of precision, and hence any predictive power, rendering 10.5kBC completely and utterly arbitrary)
The way I see it, "alternadoxy" is jumping to the gun on this, let's just wait and see what they find, if they indeed find anything, because whatever is or isn't there, it'll be one hell of a special.
The alledged hijacking of Rudolf Gantenbrink's work is a straw man, Gantenbrink is refered to in all the papers you will find in academia relating to the exploration of the shafts. The nature of research dictates that one researcher follows another on a site, research is not for personal glory, it's about uncovering the truth. That Gantenbrink isn't always mentioned in the press is not the big deal that "alternadoxy" makes of it, after all, Dyxon isn't either and probed the shafts many decades before Gantenbrink (in his probings, he did find that the southern queen's chamber shaft seemed to be blocked at the height we know of today as the location of the plug). Also Gantenbrink has been associated with this special, if only in providing his experience to the i-robot team.
As for "why so long?", well the pyramids aren't going anywhere, these things always take time, specifically because we do NOT want to rush in. I think the REAL question to ask is
Why NOW ?
Well, think about it, it'll probably boost egyptian tourism by solving a mini-mystery. That tourism took a big blow after 9/11.
Now THAT qualifies as very good reason to be doing this now rather than later.
Re:Why so long? (Score:2)
Wait a second... live? (Score:5, Insightful)
The National Geographic Channel special Pyramids Live: Secret Chambers Revealed airs in the United States on Fox Television on Monday, September 16, at 8 p.m. ET/PT.
The only way I know to air a show at 8pm Eastern and Pacific is to have it recorded! So now, is it live? Or is it recorded?
Re:Wait a second... live? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Wait a second... live? (Score:2)
Isn't 8pm EST 4am in Egypt? Gawd, I hope for the archaeologists' sake that it's recorded. Let 'em sleep in for crying out loud!
Re:Wait a second... live? (Score:2)
That does make sense, though I don't know how hot it is inside the pyramid (where I assume the hidden chamber is). I tend to think of the inside of large stone structures as being cool. I don't know about pyramids, though.
Will they find something or... (Score:1)
this was tried (Score:5, Informative)
The new robot has a fiber optic camera, and some kind of device which will allow it to see through up to 3 feet of rock.
One thing that kind of pisses me off about the whole egyptology thing, is that the egyptian government is pretty strict on who they let come and do work like this over there. If they don't agree with some of your views on the history of the pyramids, good luck getting a permit to do anything there. The history of the pyramids is very sketchy, and how the traditional egyptologists think their theories are 100% correct is very arrogant.
Re:this was tried (Score:5, Insightful)
The reason the Egyptian government is wary about letting any old Tom or Dick go digging about is because of the very long history of looting by nearly everyone who's come into contact with ancient treasures over the centuries -- the west being especially guilty of such things. There's also the worry that with today's travel/tourist mania, X-files pilgrims and crowds of pseudo-scientists, the ancient treasures could easily be ground into dust by foot traffic, or worse.
People with academic credentials and valid (i.e. not having to do with aliens, sorry) research interests can still get access when necessary.
Re:this was tried (Score:2)
Re:this was tried (Score:2, Informative)
. . . it was probably built between 5 000 BCE and 7 000 BCE. That date is before archeologists admit that homosapiens was running around on the planet.
I don't know what archaeologists you talk to, but I'm pretty sure that we'e been on the planet longer than 9000 years.
Re:this was tried (Score:3, Interesting)
Which may be neither here nor there anyway; the Sphinx was carved out of, and in part built on top of, a natural rock outcropping which is itself certainly older than human civilization. We shouldn't be too surprised to see weathering on it inconsitent with the time when it became the Sphinx instead of "that rock over there."
Re:this was tried (Score:5, Insightful)
Take a look at the British Museum or Louvre sometime and you will see the reason why. Graverobbers took much of the best stuff in the 19th century and hauled it back home with them under the guise of 'archeology'.
If you go and tour the sites you will find walls covered with hieroglyphics with great big chunks missing where an 'archeologist' stole some particularly good looking piece.
The last thing anyone needs is a bunch of crystal waving new age hippies moving in to gather evidence to support their theory that the pyramids were marketing props for aliens selling a new type of chocky mint.
There are legit revisionist archeologists such as Romer who are challenging the chronology which everyone agrees is out of sync with the Greek and with the old testament.
Re:this was tried (Score:1, Troll)
Did you all miss the joke here?
This was cut and pasted from the same story 2 days ago (although it was moded as funny then).
How about reading what your modding?
Re:this was tried (Score:2)
One thing that kind of pisses me off about the whole
egyptology thing, is that the egyptian government is pretty strict on who they
let come and do work like this over there. If they don't agree with some of your
views on the history of the pyramids, good luck getting a permit to do anything
there. The history of the pyramids is very sketchy, and how the traditional
egyptologists think their theories are 100% correct is very arrogant.
Please remember that the pyramids are Egyptian, not American, not English, etc... The Egyptian government is only protecting their culture, their history. And if it seems like they're are too harsh, too strict I think you need to remember that most Egyptian artifacts and surviving mummies are in foreign museums, not Egyptian. (The majority of the world's mummies are at the British Museum).
I think that the American government (or any nation's government) would install the same strict laws and codes to protect its people's heritage from export.
Good point (Score:2)
Re:this was tried (Score:2)
The majority of "above-ground" mummies are in the British Museum.
Re: (Score:2)
Tourism jump start? (Score:2)
Aside from rewriting history, it is otherwise understandable seeing the past splunking that they have been subject to.
Anyhow, there is some speculation that the government is allowing this right now because the terrorist attacks and their Palistine viewpoints have scared away tourists. This may be an attempt to re-spark the tourism industry.
How many times are you going to post that? (Score:2)
You know, I thought I had read these same words before, on the last
But I guess if the "editors" (who do no editing) are allowed to repost their own stories and call it news, a post author is allowed to copy and paste his own text from two days previous and get more karma for it all over again. :-) It works out.
Previous attempt... (Score:2, Funny)
shaft ended in disappointment when it was discover
that Lara Croft's cross-section was too large to
permit her entry into the shaft.
Beware! (Score:2, Funny)
What they'll find... (Score:1, Insightful)
Or maybe it's the control room to the alien launch facility....
Where's Geraldo? (Score:3, Funny)
Very tastefull (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Very tastefull (Score:2)
Remember, only one statuette or figurine can win the title of number one ancient object of worship!'
Host: Thank you Bob! Alright folks, just like the ancient mummies of the Sphinx - it's finally time to wrap this competition up!
*ba-dum-crash!*
Host:Thank you. And while we're at it - let's here it for those King Tut dancers! You guys have been great. You know Anubis was so upset about losing last night, he still hasn't gotten over it - I heard he's in de-Nile!
*ba-dum-crash!*
Thank you
I could go on all night, but is that what you meant?
Re:Very tastefull (Score:2)
Blocked Shaft? (Score:1, Funny)
First UK showing... (Score:1)
Beware the Curse! (Score:5, Funny)
"And the next morning, the robot failed to come out of its tent. When they went in to check, they found the robot frozen in horror, its monitor displaying The Blue Screen of Death!"
If someone's planning on making a DivX... (Score:5, Flamebait)
(I'm in Japan and don't these channels.)
I feel a bit guilty for asking, so feel free to leave in the commercials - I'll watch them as my penance.
Cheers,
Jim
(jim at mmdc dot net)
Flamebait? (Score:1)
Re:Flamebait? (Score:1)
Re:If someone's planning on making a DivX... OT (Score:5, Insightful)
man, if I had cable, I'd LOVE to give you a divx of it. hell, I'd even mail you a copy of the cd. Why?
Because it's frickin fair use!
If you can't watch a show, it is within your FAIR USE to have someone to record it at a later time.
My parents would always do that for me when I'd miss saturday moring cartoons to go to my sanchin ryu classes. that was fair use... that's the DEFINITION of fair use.
So why is this different? because it's Divx? because he asked on an open forum? if that's the case, would it be illegal to ask your bowling buddies if they could tape a show for you?
he said he'd be willing to watch the commercials, which he probably wouldn't anyways if he was watching it live(channel surf, bathroom, etc).
This is the kinda shit that makes me sick. that someone automatically thought it was in bad taste because he was excersizing his fair use rights.
To the parent poster, as I said, I don't have cable either. If someone does score you a divx of it, let me know.I doubt they'll ever release this bad boy to dvd.
as for the moderators who are gonna mod me as flamebait or a troll, blow me. I have promise you I have more karma than you have mod points(unless it's an ed.).
Re:If someone's planning on making a DivX... OT (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:If someone's planning on making a DivX... OT (Score:2, Informative)
2)character of use: is it non-profit or education use?
4)effect on potential market: will this make the product less valuable?
you're correct, these aren't laws, they're guidelines.
Since it's entering from one market where it's given away freely(TV, commercials not withstanding), to another person(not market) where it cannot be obtained by any reasonable means, I do not see where the problem would be.
They only way I could see a problem with this is if it was being sold or otherwise exceeded the second guideline. it would also be a violation if it was given away enmasse to the public as a whole- however, since it's available on broadcast tv, that would not affect the market there either unless they later planned on broadcasting it to the unaffected region for profit(commercials). which would make it very difficult to exceed the 4th guideline.
btw, IANAL, I'm just an idiot trying to bring some sense to the world..
Re:If someone's planning on making a DivX... OT (Score:2)
Re:If someone's planning on making a DivX... (Score:3, Informative)
According to the UK site [nationalgeographic.co.uk], there's going to be a live web cast.
Re:If someone's planning on making a DivX... (Score:1)
An Apology - OT (Score:2)
Sorry, my bad.
Could one of you who knows me mail me a tape then?
Cheers,
Jim
(I hear it will be webcast, but can you imagine trying to actually watch one of those for something shot in such low light? It would look like a cubist art video...)
Re: (Score:2)
I think I'll explore that gopher hole.. (Score:2)
Re:I think I'll explore that gopher hole.. (Score:1)
From the Budweiser site:
You must be over 21 years of age to enter this site.
My god, something is wrong here. You need to be 18 or older to get porn in the US but 21 or older to look at a site about (disgusting) beer? Makes me glad I am dutch :) *opens another can of Amstel*
No one under 21 admitted (Score:1)
You also have to mail/fax them a statement stating that you're 21 to get a copy of their ANNUAL REPORT! Ooooook...
Re: (Score:1)
Re:I think I'll explore that gopher hole.. (Score:2)
To win this game you must kill me, John Romero! (Score:1)
Re:To win this game you must kill me, John Romero! (Score:2)
The Hall of Records and wood in the Pyramid (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course Hawass and his ilk are disdainful of this theory, but in the Sphinx, there is reportedly a hidden "hall of records" that is supposed to be under one of the shoulders of the Sphinx. According to Edgar Cayce, it was supposed to crumble away around the year 2000 and humankind's lost knowledge would be revealed. Naturally, Hawass and his ilk conducted extensive repairs of the Sphinx a year or two before Cayce's prophecy was supposed to come true, although there have been ground penetrating radar surveys that showed that there is indeed something there. Oddly enough, Mark Lehner was once upon a time associated with Cayce's estate and was a member of one of these teams led by SRI International that discovered this tantalizing evidence. What brought about his volte face so he's now 100% with the orthodox Egyptological establishment is unknown.
But they aren't going to the Sphinx, right? They're shooting for that strange sealed door at the end of one of the shafts inside the Queen's Chamber. After Rudolf Gantenbrink discovered this mysterious door in 1993, which also had a wood fragment in front of it which Gantenbrink's robot couldn't pick up (and settle once and for all the question of when the Pyramid had been built), he was prevented from sending yet another improved robot down the shaft. Political pissing contest at the Antiquities Bureau sounded like. If they do manage to get the wood fragment, hopefully there'll be no cover up on the radiocarbon dating results. There has already been one (on the mortar used in some parts of the Pyramid, conducted in 1986) that gives a date for the building of the Pyramid about a thousand or so years before the 2500 BC date traditionally accepted by Egyptologists. Gee, so the Pyramid was supposedly built ca. 3800 to 2800 BC. In the Predynastic Period! Of course these results were universally ignored by Egyptologists as it would greatly upset the neat chronology they have for the building of the Giza monuments.
This is what I get from reading too much Graham Hancock [amazon.com]!
carbon date mortar? (Score:1)
You can't carbon date stone. (Score:2, Informative)
There would be straw in the mortar, and they would carbon date that, to get a date for when the mortar was made.
Re:The Hall of Records and wood in the Pyramid (Score:2)
You see the Sphinx is (was) a rock outcrop and something like 6000+ years ago, someone figured out that water seeps up throgh the limestone layers where the outcrops are and if you dig down, you can get to the water. The Sphinx is also about a 1/2 day outside the Khan el-Khalili which is the traditional market in what is no Ciaro. A market has been there for at least 5,000 years or even much longer. If your going to ride a cammel from anywhere in North Africa to the Ciaro market, the area near the Sphinx would be a very good place to set up your last camp before hitting the big city.
If you look at how nomads navigate, you will find that they would often describe hills and rivers in ways that would allow them to be used as unambigous waypoints. I supect over the years, the Sphinx was fixed up a bit by the travelers until some king decided to make it a grand monument. I expect its current form is the 3 or 4th major facelift.
Water is very importaint in that region. Egypt has plenty of water but its all underground. Denying someon water in that region used to be a crime punishable by death. All religions that came out of that area currenly have things to say about offering drinks to strangers. That would lead me to think that marking points to find water might have been the ancient equivlent of a large donation to a charity.
Re:The Hall of Records and wood in the Pyramid (Score:2)
It's been too long since I've read up on egyptology, so I'm going off 15 year old recollections that I may have doctored up for Call of Cthulhu (but that, I think, was the real history).
Shaft exploring (Score:5, Funny)
Best site for info on this... (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.cheops.org/
It is a site constructed by Rudolph Gattenbrink and contains all of his findings in a very public way... AutoCAD drawings of how each block was cut to form the shaft, etc...
Zahi Hawass (The director of the Giza site) loves to take credit for anything and everything.. I true ego-maniac... I would love to see Rudolph Gattenbrink get the credit he deserves...
There is a petition located at:
http://www.dailygrail.com/petition/
The shafts (Score:1, Informative)
Seen before... (Score:2, Funny)
I predict that behind the stone at the end of the tunnel wil be ... more stone.
Rudolf Gantenbrink's web site (1st robot in shaft) (Score:2)
"I became aware of National Geographic plans - for the first time - through the media 6th of August 2002..."
I'm afraid... (Score:2)
Haven't they watched the Indiana Jones series ?
I know exactly what they'll find. (Score:1)
Sure, my spelling sucks. But my point is this: Whatever they find, it'll be something stupid. Since it's the Queen's Chamber they're so excited about, it'll probably be the world's first dildo. And oh, what an archeological find that would be.
Honestly, I'd rather watch that crackhead Aussie bloke who likes to play with crocs.
Re:I know exactly what they'll find. (Score:1)
In a way, it would be the ancients' way of giving us the finger.
I gotta get off this stuff! (Score:1)
I read that as a drunk blocking the passage, after they used him as a polishing tool. Where is my coffee, I'm going mad.
Like a cheesy horror movie. (Score:2, Interesting)
Even though it's painfully clear that people arent supposed to be opening up this heavily guarded chamber in the 4000 year old structure, and there is no real value for us in doing so, other than to satisfy our curiosity, lets send a small robot down there to pull the block out so we can send a camera in."
I mean, sure, it
More resources (Score:2, Informative)
CNN blurb on this special [cnn.com] (with video clip)
The ananova take on the special [ananova.com].
The Times (UK) take [timesonline.co.uk]. Pretty good.
A little on Zahi Hawass [archaeology.org]
Holy Shit (Score:1)
Any bets? (Score:1)
Evil spirit to be relased... (Score:1)
That Hawass guy is full of crap (Score:1)
There was another special back in 1999 where they were opening a tomb for the first time. Never seen for thousands of years, all that stuff.
Well, as it turned out, it was obvious that Hawass had alredy been in the tomb when the camera followed him in there. Kinda dampened my enthusiasm. He was also totally reckless with the artifacts, are there so many in Egypt that they don't bother being careful any more?
And with Fox involved expect a good bit of tabloid documentary filmmaking, although hopefully National Geographic will temper that a bit.
Re: That Hawass guy is full of crap (Score:2)
> He was also totally reckless with the artifacts, are there so many in Egypt that they don't bother being careful any more?
I saw a documentary once that claimed that there were so many mummies that they used to burn them for fuel in locomotives.
Xfer files (Score:2)
"Shuddup and help me, kid. My legs are stiff."
Wow! This might be as exciting as.... (Score:2)
Re:Wow! This might be as exciting as.... (Score:2)
Weird Al- UHF
Indiana Jones and the Temple of Ratings (Score:2)
How do they move that block with that robot? (Score:2)
What they'll find inside (Score:2)
Comic (Score:2)
If only Monty Hall were here... (Score:2)
is door #2!
Re:funny (Score:1)
Re:This is wrong. (Score:1, Funny)
Re:..sepllign (Score:1)
Re:And I suppose (Score:1)
Re:You're going to be very disappointed... (Score:2)
Re:You're going to be very disappointed... (Score:2)
Re:But what if ... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Can anybody who watched Fox on Monday describe (Score:2)
A space of several inches, then what appears to be another door. I say door rather than wall, as the sides of the shaft are pretty obvious going in past the new door. Didn't look very much like the old door, however. The old door was white, and had two metallic attachments. The new "door" is grey, cracked, and has no attachments. Nothing much visible on the floor either. Just dust.
Re:It was a bust! (Score:2)
Rumor has it that there may be some nasty traps inside the shaft also, so that in case the series doesn't work out, Fox will have plenty of footage for a few When Pyramids Attack! specials...
DennyK