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Science

Scientists Discover What Makes Geckos Stick 354

Posted by timothy from the persistence-alone-is-not-enough dept.
Scratch-O-Matic writes "This story at CNN explains how gecko feet are sticky due to an electro-mechanical phenomenon rather than a chemical glue, as had been previously assumed. The gecko is one of just a few animals capable of climbing vertical and beyond-vertical surfaces that are smooth and dry. Researchers have discovered that the secret to the adhesion lies in millions of tiny hairs called 'setae.' Each hair is the width of two human hairs, and contains about 1000 little pads at the end. The pads are so tiny that they actually cling to the surface at the molecular level, due to van der Waal forces. A gecko using all of its setae and pads at the same time could support 280 pounds. Seems to me that his should be easily replicated in the coming age of nanotechnology." Other readers point to the AP story, as carried by Yahoo! and also playing at Salon.
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Scientists Discover What Makes Geckos Stick More

Scientists Discover What Makes Geckos Stick

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  • Geko (Score:1, Funny)

    by Drath ( 50447 )
    Wait, this isn't about car insurance...
  • Wow, this submitter basically just cut and pasted directly from the article. Way to go.
    • Van der Waals' forces in gecko feet have been known about for a fair while now, at least two years because I remember explaining it to my (now 12yo) daughter when we [images roughly 500kB apeice] saw some geckos [fdns.net] at Wyloo [fdns.net] Station [fdns.net] during a trip in June 2000, and this article [answersingenesis.org] was published in December 2000, referring to papers and articles from June 2000.

    • Re:hmm... (Score:2, Funny)

      by falzer ( 224563 )
      Just in case anyone didn't know,

      gecko (gk)
      n. pl. geckos or geckoes

      Any of various usually small tropical and subtropical lizards of the family Gekkonidae, having toes padded with setae containing numerous suction cups that enable them to climb on vertical surfaces.
  • Wow, I really want them as my insurance company now....
  • Cool, maybe now I'll get to climb walls like Spiderman. Afterall, what's a better use for new technology than for recreation.

    Truthfully though, this could be useful in a lot of applications. I would expect to see NASA interested, as it might be a good replacement for velcro, which is kinda limited in what it can stick to.

    • I see absolutely zero value in this article's "discovery" -- this is EXACTLY what I was told by my chemistry professor last January. This is not new news, or perhaps maybe my professor could forecast the future or something. If Slashcode had a file attachment feature I'd even attach the PowerPoint slide specifically describing the intermolecular forces involved in Gecko feet.
      • I'm well enough aware of the Van Der Walls effect, thanks for the offer of the slide show though.
        As for my response to the article, guess I just managed to miss the initial release of the info. Sorry, I actually have a life and spend most of my time living it, rather than reading stuff that rarely pertains to me. You might try it, its kinda fun.

        • This was actually directed to the parent article, not necessarily to you in vain -- it was the first post that remotely related to what I was going to say, so I replied. As for the presentation, it didn't just casually mention "van der Waals forces" --- it had two slides that were specifically talking about the gecko... in fact, it had the exact same picture that is on CNN (the Gecko hanging upside down).

          Oh wait, here it is. [purdue.edu] Last page, slides 17 and 18, check it out (in MSWord format w/ embedded pictures). This was written 8 months ago.

          Like I said, this doesn't seem to be much of a "revolutionary discovery" any more, does it? :-)

  • Sponsored... (Score:5, Funny)

    by wo1verin3 ( 473094 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @06:19PM (#4152823) Homepage
    This study sponsored by the "The Association For Producing Low Cost Sticky Notes".

    I'd imagine we could put the sticky note out of business if we could get markers to write on geckos with......

  • Maybe not... (Score:3, Funny)

    by PopeAlien ( 164869 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @06:20PM (#4152828) Homepage Journal
    Boy! the mental picture of a gecko 'supporting' 280 pounds is not a pretty one. Poor little geckos..
  • Researchers have discovered that the secret to the adhesion lies in millions of tiny hairs called 'setae.' Each hair is the width of two human hairs, and contains about 1000 little pads at the end

    Wait... each hair is twice as thick as a human hair, AND each Gecko has MILLIONS of them? Wouldn't a gecko need to be the size of a boar to have that much hair?

  • What year is this? (Score:5, Informative)

    by theFlux ( 449414 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @06:21PM (#4152840) Journal
    Very timely... Read about this in Scientific American over a year ago! Takes awhile for scientific knowledge to disseminate I guess.....
    • I first noticed this on cnn's frontpage.

      Searched /. for "gecko" and showed me that this is old news (June 2000) found here [slashdot.org].

      3 of the 5 'related articles' submitted by posters there are old enough to be broken (cnn/msnbc/EurekAlert). The two that work (and expose how old the story REALLY is) are this [go.com] and this [bbc.co.uk]. The dates for these are June 8th 2000 and June 7th 2000.

      It looks like nothing has changed since then wrt the research. About the only thing I see different is that Spiderman wasn't in fashion 2 years ago. Seems like hype instead of real news. I guess it's a slow day if every news-organization thinks it's ready for re-print.
    • Heh, I saw this on TV a couple of months ago. Way to go /. :)
    • According to the article, what's new is that they've discovered how the angles of the hairs affect the attachment.

      Summary: pull them away 30 degrees and they 'unstick'.

      I didn't read the SciAm article, but I don't remember that part from the popular press last time 'round.

  • So... (Score:5, Funny)

    by phraktyl ( 92649 ) <wyatt@dPLANCKraggoo.com minus physicist> on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @06:21PM (#4152841) Homepage Journal
    All I need to climb walls are hairy palms? I'll get right on that!
  • Despite the more visible benefits of the implant, I think that getting some of these suckers in my hands and feet would be quite possibly the greatest implant to date (followed immediately, of course, with some nice high-res cybernetic eyes).

  • It's passive too... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Jaeden ( 24087 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @06:21PM (#4152843)
    One my profs works on geckos, he was telling me that even dead geckos stick to walls. Fun for the whole family!

  • old news (Score:5, Funny)

    by steve_l ( 109732 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @06:24PM (#4152868) Homepage
    This has been known about since 2000 at least; we used to have endless discussions over the fact that geckos have the impressive ability to stick to ceilings in a vacuum, discussions on topics such as:

    a) how did they find out the details? Did it involve a research assistant, a glass container, a vacuum pump and a large supply of geckos?

    b) How did Geckos evolve this feature? Are geckos secretly descended from a life form that can stick to the outside of space craft?

    c) Alternatively, does this prove that creatures are designed rather than evolved, and the design process is a bit more like the PhD process than anything else; some little godling spends millenia working on geckos in order to submit some paper 'An alternative mechanism for achieving stickiness in creatures' only to have it discredited by a board of professors who have always used suction and thats how they believe all creatures should stick.

    • Re:old news (Score:3, Informative)

      by mattdm ( 1931 )
      Yep, that woulda been right here on slashdot [slashdot.org], linking to abcnews [go.com], June 2000.
    • It's ability to stick in a vacuum comes from the fact that the adhesive technique is all about the geometry of the molecules involved, not any sort of chemical process that requires air. So the technique didn't have to come into being with "ceiling in a vacuum" in mind: it's just a "good trick" for sticking that also happens to work regardless of what sorts of surfaces or surrounding conditions abound.
    • c) Alternatively, does this prove that creatures are designed rather than evolved, and the design process is a bit more like the PhD process than anything else; some little godling spends millenia working on geckos in order to submit some paper 'An alternative mechanism for achieving stickiness in creatures' only to have it discredited by a board of professors who have always used suction and thats how they believe all creatures should stick.

      I've occasionally wondered if God is a college student. I wonder how He's doing?

  • 280 lbs. (Score:5, Funny)

    by TheFlu ( 213162 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @06:24PM (#4152869) Homepage
    The 280 lb gecko they used for the experiment simply asked for more donuts when questioned about the validity of the scientists claims.
    • I'd settle for a 280 lb. gecko anyday to replace that 300 lb gorilla that has been sitting on me since - oh - about the time Windows 3.1 came out ;)

  • Old News (Score:2)

    by pmc ( 40532 )
    This is ancient - see The BBC [bbc.co.uk] for starters.

  • Reinventing the wheel (Score:5, Informative)

    by PD ( 9577 ) <slashdotlinux@pdrap.org> on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @06:28PM (#4152899) Homepage Journal
    Why is everyone reporting this like it was just discovered?

    BBC covered it over two years ago. [bbc.co.uk]

    Probably what happened is that a major news service hired a new reporter who heard something cool and decided to write about it. But he didn't know it was old news. Like little robots, every other newspaper in the country picked up the story and published it This kind of thing happens with just about every story. It's almost like we have one giant national newspaper.

  • My Gecko Story (Score:5, Interesting)

    by VividU ( 175339 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @06:32PM (#4152933)
    I just love my Tokay Gecko. It's as mean as it can be. The Tokay is the pit-bull of geckos.

    I had a bad roach problem. I did'nt want to use pesticides in my home so a friend recommended a Tokay. I was open to all options so I bought a Tokay and let it loose in my home.

    The roaches were gone in two days. It was lovely. I would wake up at night turn the lights on and see my little guy on a wall somewhere.

    It did such a good job eating roaches that it eventually ran out of food. I had to catch it (not easy since it put up a good fight) and put in a terrarium where it happily eats crickets.

    I love my little guy.

    Here is a picture [goodskeleton.com] I took of my little buddy.
    • How about a pet store that sells crickets. It is in a strip mall. A pizza place 2 stores down starts complaining about the amount crickets around. Solution: Release 100 tokays. No more crickets, but still an odd chirping.
    • Didn't that produce a small gecko poo problem?

      • Re:My Gecko Story (Score:2, Informative)

        by VividU ( 175339 )
        Not really. Tokay poo are solid little pellets. Very easy to clean up. The cool thing about them was you could make out cockroach features in the poo. It was like a Gieger sculpture or something found on a Alien movie set, a very organic yet dark evil look to them.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • We had geckos everywhere where I lived in Mexico. They wouldn't dare try to take on the cockroaches, though. The cockroachers were about twice the size of the geckos. I saw a gecko begin to square off with a cockroach, but he got smart fast and backed down. The cockroaches in Mexico will grab a gecko and fly off with him and have him for dinner.

      For those little roaches, I'm sure they're great, though. The were great at getting mosquitos. They're too damn noisy, though. I used to wake up in the middle of the night with this "squeak, squeak, squeak" noise coming out of my closet.

      Living back in civilization definitely has its advantages. No big, flying cockroaches, no geckos.

  • Wait a minute! (Score:5, Funny)

    by ninejaguar ( 517729 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @06:34PM (#4152942)
    They figured how Gecko's stick to glass surfaces, but they never figured out how they let go! Another fifty years of research to figure that out...sheesh!

    • Re:Wait a minute! (Score:3, Interesting)

      by mark-t ( 151149 )

      They figured how Gecko's stick to glass surfaces, but they never figured out how they let go!

      I was wondering the same thing, actually. Anybody here got any idea?

      • Re:Wait a minute! (Score:2, Interesting)

        by derinax ( 93566 )
        I wonder if there's some way of applying a low-voltage charge that would lay the hairs flat, and release the grip.

        Imagine, if you will, a practical spidey-suit (hinted at in the CNN article). How would anyone with gloves like these be able to throw anything (like a pistol, say) out of his or her grasp?

        I mean, I'm just thinking here; not really interested in becoming a superhero or nothin'. Really. Nothing to see here. Move along. *koff*

      • Re:Wait a minute! (Score:2, Interesting)

        by karm13 ( 538402 )
        that it has millions of hairs does not mean it has to let go all of them at at time.
        so my theory is it lets go hair by hair, in fast order -- like it automaticly does when it walks.
        if you take two-sided sticky tape and tape it to your soles it would be harder to lift your foot straight up than to just walk, wouldn't it?

      • Yes they did (Score:4, Informative)

        by mindstrm ( 20013 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @07:27PM (#4153234)
        It's the way the pads are angled, and the angle of attack/release that they use.
        Like velcro.. peel it from one side, it doesn't take much force, try to move it all at once, it can take literally TONS of force.

        • Re:Yes they did (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Wolfrider ( 856 )
          Same thing with superglue. Glue your fingers together and try pulling them apart, incredibly hard to impossible. Ah, but rub your fingers like you're trying to light them on fire by friction, and voila! Something about the "shear" strength of the bonding.
          .

  • bbc and cnn (Score:3)

    by cheese_wallet ( 88279 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @06:36PM (#4152951) Journal
    The same scientist made the anouncment 2 years ago, although one of the articles gets his name backwards. At the BBC [bbc.co.uk] they call him Autumn Kellar, and at CNN [cnn.com] they call him Kellar Autumn. I don't know which way is backwards.
  • I want to cling to hot classmates celings!

  • If you're wondering about the forces involved (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Beryllium Sphere(tm) ( 193358 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @06:45PM (#4153011) Journal
    If memory serves it's van der Waals.

    It's an ultra-short range stickiness that applies to just about any material.

    Anybody with a physics degree will be horrified by this explanation, but conceptually imagine two neutral atoms, really close. Imagine that atom A momentarily has more of its electron cloud on the side away from atom B. Then atom A will look slightly positive to atom B. A positive charge attracts electrons, so atom B's electron cloud gets redistributed toward atom A. Atom B now looks slightly negative, keeping A's electrons (better, A's electron probability distribution (better yet, we should be talking complex amplitudes and energy values)) on the far side from B.

    Corrections and clarifications to the above are entirely welcome.

    • explanation is right (Score:3, Informative)

      by Trepidity ( 597 )
      Basically the fluctuation causes a temporary dipole, which induces a complementary dipole in the neighboring atom, which causes the usual dipole-dipole attraction (but on a much weaker scale than when there are actual permanent dipoles, like with water).

      Some additional explanation with some diagrams is available here [chemguide.co.uk].
      • Yeah, that webpage is a great explanation of dipoles and van der Waals forces. What I don't get is how the dipole interaction changes when the 'hair' is at a different angle (which is, as I understand it, how the Gecko 'unsticks' his leg, by changing the angle of his leg as other posters here have pointed out.)

        --LP

  • Applications other than climbing (Score:3, Interesting)

    by StefanJ ( 88986 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @06:50PM (#4153036) Homepage Journal
    * Hands with non-slip grip. (To add this feature to your future child, select option 567B on the manipulators submenu. Special price of $433.34 for the next 10 minutes.)

    * Fasteners on living, plant-based clothing. (Anyone remember the ads for the "Playtex Living Bra?" This one has a clasp the most determined teenage boy can't pry off!)

    * Biologically based near-future equivalent of a Velcro Wall. You don't need a suit . . .

    * Security floors. Intruders walk on but they can't walk off!
    • Hands with non-slip grip. (To add this feature to your future child, select option 567B on the manipulators submenu. Special price of $433.34 for the next 10 minutes.)

      Great.. kids already run on walls, now they'll be on the ceiling too!
  • What's this? Mozilla climbs walls now?
    Time to get a new nightly build!

    (Yes, I'm aware Gecko is just the rendering engine! :)

  • What about... (Score:3, Funny)

    by ocie ( 6659 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @06:55PM (#4153065) Homepage
    How to stick turtles to the ceiling?

  • Obligatory Mastercard bit (Score:5, Funny)

    by jcsehak ( 559709 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @07:04PM (#4153117) Homepage
    Lab equipment for studying herpi-podiatry: $68,000

    Salaries for scientists and lab assistants: $230,000

    Ticket to "Spiderman": $8.50

    The fact that this was discovered only after getting the idea from the Spiderman movie: priceless.
    • The fact that this was discovered only after getting the idea from the Spiderman movie: priceless.

      Unfortunately, as several people have pointed out already, this is a story about something that was discovered over 2 years ago..
    • 2002-08-27 16:39:53 Scientists Discover What Makes Geckos Stick (articles,science) (rejected)


    Apparently the story is better the second time around.

  • "Why now?" answered... (Score:5, Informative)

    by RandomCoil ( 88441 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @07:45PM (#4153317)
    For all those wondering why this subject suddenly returned to the limelight, it's due to a paper realased today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (or pnas for those in the know).

    Here's a link [pnas.org] to the Autumn, et al. article, entitled "Evidence for van der Waals adhesion in gecko setae".
  • Was science fiction: now biology.

  • Gekko experiments you can do... (Score:4, Funny)

    by tlambert ( 566799 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2002 @08:14PM (#4153421)
    I would like to do gekko experiments at home; right now, I'm using industrial magnets.

    Any chance someone could post a link to the most recent "setae at home" clients?

    Thanks in advance,
    -- Terry
  • Funny how I literally just saw this segment in a show about a week ago describing the unusual methods animals use to catch their prey. News for nerds, stuff that was ripped from week-old documentaries, I guess.
  • May be closer than he thinks [irobot.com].
  • This story is just not going to stick.

  • I noticed that if I farted hard enough, my room-mates somehow found a way to climb and stick to the far corner of the room.
  • Patient:
    Hey doc...

    Surgeon:
    What seems to be the problem?

    Patient:
    Well, I got this gecko... (pointing to bum)
  • It's good to see someone at my old alma mater Lewis & Clark College [lclark.edu] making some headlines. Just to prolong the slashdotting, here are some cool microscopic photos [lclark.edu] and a QT movie of gecko foot hairs and microsensors.
  • ...no wonder the damned things always tear in two when I try to do pull-ups on them. The setae can support 280lbs, but the rest of their bodies are woefully underdesigned for that kind of load.

    -b
  • Maybe, just maybe my childhood dream of being a friendly neighborhood spiderman will come true.
  • It seems likely to me that someone is using a news crawler to catch information about Mozilla, and just happened to 'catch' this story.

    It is more interesting than most news about Mozilla, I must say.
  • I finally came up with a good use for those spyware products like DragNet and Carnivore. Instead of using their powers for evil, use them for good. Have them digest the Slashdot archives (at a gigabit per second, should only take a few years :) and whenever a new submission comes along, have them use their heuristics to see if it matches old stories!
  • 1) Geckos can support up to 250lbs with these little hairs
    2) Geckos stick even after death

    Why do we need nanotechnology, why not just make "Gecko Gloves" and stick to things ala-spiderman?
  • Duh. My cat does this already, all I need to do is look for it when I'm shaving and can't find a towel ;-)
  • Discovery Channel had a segment on this over a year ago. They even showed some nice close up simulations of the hairs themselves.

    I was hoping that day old unshaved faces, armpits and legs could do the same thing for humans, but was sadly disappointed (although with the added suction of an armpit I did come close).
  • It has been years since I have been able to fit into my plastic Spederman costume and NOW scientists figure out a way to climb walls.

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